My 450R carb installation

[zrpilot]

I know this subject has been beat to death, but here are a few pictures from my installation.

Please note this is for the '04-'05 carb....

I made an adapter to solve (2) issues with the installation. It solves the size issue of the airbox snorkel and the length issue. Running this I did NOT have to move my airbox and I did NOT have to heat the snorkel to fit.



Please note: I had to remove the "ridges" cast into the airbox side of the carb. This is a very tedious job. I used a sanding drum attached to my dremel tool. Then I applied a very thin layer of black RTV gasket maker onto the adapter and the carb and used an bench vise to press the two pieces together. This ensures the parts stay together and don't leak!

Lastly I used that same sanding drum on my dremel to remove some of the ridges in the intake side boot. I was careful and left some of the original shape. The carb still used what is left of these molded ridges to seal upon.


I can make you one of these adapters, PM me for the details


http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l97/zrpilot/IMG_0592.jpg

This is what the whole system looks like from above. You can see that the airbox is still in the original mounting hole.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l97/zrpilot/IMG_0600.jpg

This is what the carb looks like from the airbox side. The adapter is "invisible" to the carb and the incoming air stream

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l97/zrpilot/IMG_0594.jpg

I also moved the top vent from the top to the side for tank clearance. The stock vent can be tapped for a 12-24UN thread as cast and then a button head screw thread locked into the vent to seal it off. I do not have the screw installed in this picture.

Once that top hole is plugged, simply drill the side hole through the cast material and it will break into the same area of the casting as the top vent previously did!!

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l97/zrpilot/IMG_0595.jpg

This is a picture with the screw to plug the top vent in place. My local hardware store only had the 12-24UN in a brass version. Be careful, a 12-24UN is tough to find.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l97/zrpilot/IMG_0604.jpg

This is how I sealed off the hot start. I simply used some black RTV gasket maker and filled the cable adapter until it oozed out the back. Then I re-installed the hot start plunger and the spring to seal everything off.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l97/zrpilot/IMG_0599.jpg

[JOEX]

Nice:cool:

But this doesn't look like something the average rider will be able to accomplish by themself. Thinking about marketing this?;)

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by JOEX
Nice:cool:

But this doesn't look like something the average rider will be able to accomplish by themself. Thinking about marketing this?;)

I could, but that is not my original intent of this post.

How many 400EX owners would be interested in buying the adapter?

[JOEX]

Originally posted by zrpilot
I could, but that is not my original intent of this post.

How many 400EX owners would be interested in buying the adapter?
Didn't think it was your intent;)

A couple years ago you probably could've sold hundreds of them. There may still be a market out there for those who don't want to go through the hassle of the other ways of adapting. But may want to wait until the '08 400ex comes out and see what it has:)

[bens250ex]

i would if you would make me one and how much?

[sextonjd99]

I'll take one!

[lorenjr83]

Thats awesome. do you have anymore of these? how noticable is the difference? I just picked up a 450r carb today off ebay. whats is yours jetted at? i am from southern mn so the jetting should be pretty close to the same

[zrpilot]

What other mods do you have?

With mine, it made a large difference. I had an FCR carb on it before and the 450R carb simply made it run better!

Probably start at a 175 main and 50 pilot, with needle in the middle.

Oh yeah, returned you PM

[boosted3g]

late to the thread but you have a pm. Im intrested in the adapter.

[bansheemorphine]

I would take an adapter, And what engine mods do u have what is your jetting and what is your elevation/average temp?

[r-exrider0003]

yeah i'd probably buy one if the price wasnt too bad... just got my 450 carb a week ago, and i havent even tried putting it on yet...

[zrpilot]

Those interested in an adapter, PM me I still have a couple left.

Remember:
They are intended to be a press fit onto the carb side and solve two issues when putting a 450R carb on the 400EX, first is the airboot size, the adapter makes fitting the airboot (air filter side) easier. The second thing they solve is the length. With the adapter you will not have to move the stock airbox location!

[project400ex19]

how much are you selling the adaptors for?

[Brauap]

Originally posted by zrpilot
How many 400EX owners would be interested in buying the adapter?

I'd buy it in a heartbeat! ;) just if you dont jack the price way up..:ermm:

[T.J.]

how much are you selling the adaptors for?

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by boosted3g
For you guys looking to do the swap get yourself one of zrpilots adapters. It will look totally stock, like honda designed a 42mm carb to on there. I got one and it only took maybe 3 hours from start to finish. I fired it up on the first try and havent touched a thing. I thought it was a little big but its not, it will have awesome throttle response and this is on a stock bore engine.


Glad it worked good for you!!!

The price for the adapter is $45 shipped any where in the lower 48.

what do the adaptors look like and actually hook from 1 thing to another. I thought there wasnt really any problems with bolting the carb up?

[Exrider434]

they eliminate the problem of trying to stretch and heat the intake boot to fit the 450 carb.

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by FoxHondaRider
what do the adaptors look like and actually hook from 1 thing to another. I thought there wasnt really any problems with bolting the carb up?

Look on the first few pages. The pictures show what they look like installed.


And Exrider434 is right, the adapter helps accomplish two things:

1) Eliminates having to move the air forward 1 inch
2) Eliminates the problem of trying to stretch and heat the intake boot to fit the 450 carb.

[boosted3g]

I got zrpilots adapter and i can tell you it will make the install as easy as putting on the stock carb. The difference is also night and day just get ready with some big jets. I needed a 205 main and a 58 pilot to get my e85 mix tuned in.

[Brauap]

I am really interested in the adapter! Could you send me a pm or email with all the stuff I ned to know?


I want to know:

How much is it shipped to 44406?
does it come with the carb?
abd could you send me pics of the kit?


Thanks!

-brauap



PS: My email is: crzy400boy@yahoo.com

[Slochrane]

any left ? how much?

[Ruby Soho]

can you PM me a price and how it exactly is installed.

thanks.

[zrpilot]

all PMs sent. Ruby Soho your box is full.

Again the price is $45 shipped to the Continental US

Alot of people seem to think this is some kind of "kit". I simply have a couple extra adapters. It is a fairly simple aluminum machined part that has a couple of different diameters. I had a local machine shop do a short run for me, consquently I have a lot of "setup" costs to recover. The above posts pretty much explains how to install it. Simply use a dremel tool to sand cast ridges on the outside of the large diameter of the carb until smooth. The apply a thin coat of RTV and use a soft jawed bench vise it press together. Allow the RTv to dry overnight, then remove excess rtv and install like a normal carb!

But as I described above, it makes the installation easier because the stock air boots can be used without heating and stretching. Also the airbox can be left in the stock mounting location, thus saving the time needed to fabricate a new bracket to move the airbox.

So the parts and tools needed to do this mod are as follows:
2004-2005 450R carb
2004-2005 450R fuel line
12-24UN tap
12-24 bolt
RTV
Adapter
Dremel sanding drum

[Ruby Soho]

alright, makes sense to me now

i cleared my PM box

[zrpilot]

Pictures of the adapter

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l97/zrpilot/IMG_1169.jpg




http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l97/zrpilot/IMG_1170.jpg

[Zermat]

Originally posted by boosted3g
I got zrpilots adapter and i can tell you it will make the install as easy as putting on the stock carb. The difference is also night and day just get ready with some big jets. I needed a 205 main and a 58 pilot to get my e85 mix tuned in.

I also got one of zrpilot's adapters and it made the whole installation a snap. Makes the whole thing look stock!

If your going to do this mod, get the 450R fuel line.. it is SOO much easier. I fought gas leaks for two days until I got the 450R fuel line.

[tdmopar59]

will this adapter work on an 06??

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by tdmopar59
will this adapter work on an 06??
No, the '06 and newer carbs are actually the FCR model and different. There is one guy one here that I know trying to get an '06 carb to work.

Everyone else is using the '04-'05 carbs with great success. IF I were you, thats what I'd use because there is so much advice and assistance available on EXriders using those carbs!

[tdmopar59]

im talking about my 400ex... its a 38mm carb instead of a 35.5

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by tdmopar59
im talking about my 400ex... its a 38mm carb instead of a 35.5
Sorry, I mis-unsderstood your question. The adapter will work on
ALL 400EX years as long as you use the CARB off an '04-'05 450R.

FYI, mine is an '05 400EX, no diferent then your '06.

[JOEX]

Originally posted by tdmopar59
im talking about my 400ex... its a 38mm carb instead of a 35.5
Stock carb?

If so I don't think it's been confirmed that the carbs are actually different sizes. I know the spec sheets have different numbers but I'm pretty sure they are just measured differently.

[BigBore24]

hey zrpilot, i know there is already a post on here about jetting the 450r carb but you seen to know what your doing. do you have any vague idea about what jets i should start out with for a 04-05 carb on my ex with below mods. as of now i have no airbox with k&n and outerwear but once i get my carb im gonna make an air and battery box. with stock carb i have 185 main and 45 pilot. any help would be appreciated thanks

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by BigBore24
hey zrpilot, i know there is already a post on here about jetting the 450r carb but you seen to know what your doing. do you have any vague idea about what jets i should start out with for a 04-05 carb on my ex with below mods. as of now i have no airbox with k&n and outerwear but once i get my carb im gonna make an air and battery box. with stock carb i have 185 main and 45 pilot. any help would be appreciated thanks

Some experimentation would be required, but I would start with a 190 main, 50 pilot and the needle on the 4th notch......I would expect to be going smaller on the main. Possibly ending up around a 170.....?

There are alot of variables here that I can't predict. Your port/polish, 440 displacement, and exhaust are the biggest!

[BigBore24]

thanks a bunch. the keihn jets i have for my ex carb will work on the 450 carb correct? or are they different. when you say 4th notch thats from the top right?

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by BigBore24
thanks a bunch. the keihn jets i have for my ex carb will work on the 450 carb correct? or are they different. when you say 4th notch thats from the top right?

The mains will work, but the pilots are different. Yes, 4th from the top..

[toomeyshee87]

i might be interested in an adapter if you still have some

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by toomeyshee87
i might be interested in an adapter if you still have some

I do, in fact, have adapters available. PM sent

[katch26]

I noticed in your first post that you run the carb naked (without throttle cover). Any problems with dirt mucking up the assembly?.....doing the same thing on my pred with an 06er fcr carb and the plastic assembly is very tall.
Mike

[DementeD]

i know its been a couple months.
any succes stories with the 06 carb?

i was reading wikipedia and it said the 06 carb are keihin 42mm and the 04-05 are keihin 40mm

so just curious to see if this worked etc? or are the 40's big enough?

i read also that the keihin 39 was a goodbuy for the 400ex(old thread from like 02) it provided 3hp gain on their built motor through the entire rpm range

so im just a lil curious

also what would the 450r carb do for a pretty much stock motor?
worth it??(just a slip on/grounded welds n stock header/+6 timing key/k&n and probably soon the cfm airbox with no lid :( )

thanks for any info :)

Originally posted by DementeD
[B]what would the 450r carb do for a pretty much stock motor?
worth it??(just a slip on/grounded welds n stock header/+6 timing key/k&n and probably soon the cfm airbox with no lidB]

i'm wondering the same thing how well it performs on stock bore, stock cam, aftermarket pipe, airfilter, lid removed... On big bore I bet it rips but with stock stuff is there really a benefit for what its worth?

[humdinger]

Read through this thread and many people ask the same question and they have been answered too.

[DementeD]

Originally posted by humdinger
Read through this thread and many people ask the same question and they have been answered too.
i have read through..can u find where anyone asks about a stock motor?


now the 06 carb questions was sort of asked..

but i want to make sure its correct..since after reading a little bit i think it may need some rethinking or to see if anyone has actually tried it and got it to work

and are the carbs really 2mm different in size??


do u see these ?s...if u do..plz show me where and the answers?

[humdinger]

OK you got me there, I was thinking it was this thread:

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143853

There's 19 pages of reading in there.

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by katch26
I noticed in your first post that you run the carb naked (without throttle cover). Any problems with dirt mucking up the assembly?.....doing the same thing on my pred with an 06er fcr carb and the plastic assembly is very tall.
Mike That cover was just taken off during the installation process. I never ran it without it...

[zrpilot]

I will try to answer some of the questions asked:

'04-'05 carb vs '06 and newer: The difference is in fact the '04-'0 is a 40MM round slide carb while the '06 is an FCR. Most people have been using the '04-'05, I know of only 1 member here that used the '06. He did get it to work, but struggled with the jetting. I think the '04-'05 is a better choice for a couple of reasons:
1) MUCH more info and help on tuning from other members running them
2) The '04-'05 ARE CHEAP. $160 from servicehonda.com for a NEW one.
3) The '04-'05 are physically closer in size to the original 400EX carb, so install is easier.

There has been a few members here that have run them on bone stock 400EXs and they DO make a difference. However, if your just going to make this mod and no others, then I don't think it is the best to do.... I think slip-ons, no air box lid, advance keys, ETC.. are better mods. So IF your are going to do additional mods BEFORE OR AFTER the 405R carb install, then it makes sense....

[DementeD]

sounds good man..appreciate the answers
i do plan to build a motor later on..

first i want to do looks/susp./cooling then ill rebuild the motor but id like to get as much stuff as possibe to get ready for the rebuild

ty..

[mor300ex]

very helpful information, now I just need to get my hands on the carb...then I'll be PM'ing you for that adapter! :D
I really appreciate your help. Thank you very much!

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by mor300ex
very helpful information, now I just need to get my hands on the carb...then I'll be PM'ing you for that adapter! :D
I really appreciate your help. Thank you very much!

Thats is the best part! You can get a BRAND new carb from www.servicehonda.com for $159!

I will put your name on one because I running out.

PM me once you get a carb.

[yellow416ex]

I know its been a while since you had those adapters made, got any left?

[leasureryan]

I have a couple of questions for ya man. First off.....I need more detail as to where I am supposed to drill, and why it is neccisary??? You said........."I also moved the top vent from the top to the side for tank clearance. The stock vent can be tapped for a 12-24UN thread as cast and then a button head screw thread locked into the vent to seal it off.

Once that top hole is plugged, simply drill the side hole through the cast material and it will break into the same area of the casting as the top vent previously did!!".......


Where and why do I even have to use this vent, and what goes in it after I drill it???



also, should the yellow lever be removed, or does it have to just be trimed to make it fit? And is this the "choke"???

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by leasureryan
I have a couple of questions for ya man. First off.....I need more detail as to where I am supposed to drill, and why it is neccisary??? You said........."I also moved the top vent from the top to the side for tank clearance. The stock vent can be tapped for a 12-24UN thread as cast and then a button head screw thread locked into the vent to seal it off.

Once that top hole is plugged, simply drill the side hole through the cast material and it will break into the same area of the casting as the top vent previously did!!".......


Where and why do I even have to use this vent, and what goes in it after I drill it???



also, should the yellow lever be removed, or does it have to just be trimed to make it fit? And is this the "choke"???

Ryan,

See in the picture I posted that you included in your post a brass colored screw? That is the original port that serves as a vent for the top on the carb. I simply tapped the original vent then installed the screw with a little RTV on threads then I re-drilled the non-functional cast vent in the seide of the carb (as shown in the picture) and moved the hose to that for venting. If you don't do this the fuela tank will pinch the vent the stock vent hose and prevent it form venting properly.

The yellow choke handle certainly can be modified to clear every thing, but I found that my 400EX did not need the choke under normal temps (+40 degrees F). I simply stabbed the throttle a few times then lit her off.

[400exMO]

Zr when I installed my 450r carb insteading of tapping the old vent and installing a bolt like you did, I just used a vaccum plug. Very cheap and easy.

leasureryan, once you get your carb and start looking at what needs done it is a very easy mod.

[leasureryan]

Yeah....it's easy. But do I really NEED to drill it, or can I just plug it and call it a day? Why does it have to be vented, and why was it threaded? Does the 450R have something that screws into the hole?

I ground down the ridges, and installed the adapter today. Got my hot start pluged with Suzuki bond. Going to toss the jets in tonight, and begin tearing the quad down tomarrow. I goofed mt quad all up at Perry state today. t tumbled side over side about 5 times down a cliff, and I went over the bars twice. Somerset is all tore up and rutted, bent my steering stem, broke my bars, bent both tie rods, and my front fender mounts, headlight, and most of the other front plastic peices. What a bummer. I won't be riding so hard next time. Kinda funny though...I always end up going out with a bunch of CRF450R's....I find myself trying to keep up, which I really have no problem doing....but it's the going where only bikes "should" go that always gets me....lol This no bottom end crap is really getting on my nerves!!! Good thing there was a parts store about 15 min away....otherwise....I would have been out for the day

[leasureryan]

damn....I feel stupid.....here I was thinking you were pluging the hole where the throttle cable goes in.. I see what you are talking about now....lol....I had a blond moment! Guess I didn't look at the pictures very well. Thanks guys

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by 400exMO
Zr when I installed my 450r carb insteading of tapping the old vent and installing a bolt like you did, I just used a vaccum plug. Very cheap and easy.

leasureryan, once you get your carb and start looking at what needs done it is a very easy mod.
That would work great as well!:macho

Thanks for the tip Mitch!

ZR

[leasureryan]

ZRpilot.....how did you prevent all the metal shavings from going down inside the carb, venting area? Also....can I just use some silicon to seal up te old hole? I don't have a set of taps

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by leasureryan
ZRpilot.....how did you prevent all the metal shavings from going down inside the carb, venting area? Also....can I just use some silicon to seal up te old hole? I don't have a set of taps
Good question. I used masking tape and taped the whole carb, every opening.

I'm assuming your talking about the vent hole? Silicon is OK. I just wanted the security of a bolt.

[leasureryan]

but didn't some shavings drop down inside as you punched through the new hole???

[400exMO]

just take the top cap off then clean it.

[bottlefed1]

this thread is great but there needs to be step by step instructions like remove bolt on carb using flat head screw driver, or drill hole here ect... for newbs like me. The install looks easy enough but its hard to see what needs to me modified and how to run hoses and cables.

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by bottlefed1
this thread is great but there needs to be step by step instructions like remove bolt on carb using flat head screw driver, or drill hole here ect... for newbs like me. The install looks easy enough but its hard to see what needs to me modified and how to run hoses and cables. As the originator of this thread, I can't argue with your points, but I think once you get all the needed parts and start the project, you will see it is not that hard. I can help, if you PM me with questions. Document your installation and then fill in the holes in this thread! Thats what makes the exriders boards so great!

[leasureryan]

Yeah man...it's like a 4 step process.....connect adapter...grind down neccisary areas, including rubber boots...drill hole, plug old one....and install. SIMPLE! Start really rich....it will use more fuel than you think it will!


BTW......Awesome upgrade....couldn't ask for better results!

[Snipe]

I vote Sticky!!!! This thread is way more helpfull with pictures and everything.

[hypersnyper6947]

ZR it seems like my fuel tank sits right on top of my carb, and on my 450 carb the hoses come off the top how can i fix this problem? I was thinking of gluing a couple washers stacked on top of each other on top of the carb to take the tank off the hoses but then the weight of the tank is still on the carb. Any suggestions ?

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by hypersnyper6947
ZR it seems like my fuel tank sits right on top of my carb, and on my 450 carb the hoses come off the top how can i fix this problem? I was thinking of gluing a couple washers stacked on top of each other on top of the carb to take the tank off the hoses but then the weight of the tank is still on the carb. Any suggestions ? The tank may look as though it is sitting on top of the carb, but it actually is very close and rests on the two pads on the outer edge of the tank. But the hoses being pinched is not a good idea that is why I re-drilled and moved the vent hose on the top as in this picture:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l97/zrpilot/IMG_0604.jpg

[Snipe]

I tried doing someting different its in another thread for the air intake I hope this makes sense to others as to what I did but its cheap and easy and works lol

[hypersnyper6947]

ZR Can u post a pic of the pads your tank sits on, im not sure if i have them! I got my quad used

[Snipe]

There should be like a whitish colord plastic that the fuel tank sets on that is actually over top the carb. I removed it to make this switch over easier but will put back in. If you take the fuel tank on there should be another piece of plastic under it.

[hypersnyper6947]

nope, i dont have one my tank goes directly on top of my carb,

[Snipe]

Well the carb wont creat heat of anykind so i think you should be fine if nothing els get ya some padding with a sticky side and stick it on the top to keep it from actually rubbing the carb itself. With mine taken off (easier access to the carb) it does the same but I think with the plastic on there it will set fine.

Just pad the top of the carb and I think you will be alright or make a cross bar for the frame that will keep it from setting on the carb.

[hypersnyper6947]

yea thats what i think im going to do, thanks for the replies

[Snipe]

Not a probldem, I cant wait to get mine done as I want to ride it but cant lol Its still stripped apart so I can jet and rejet it easier.

[hypersnyper6947]

mine is at the shop right now getting dyno tuned i get it back friday i cant wait

[Ruby Soho]

hyper be sure to post your results!

[hypersnyper6947]

oh i will hopefully there good

[uchi]

this is a great thread, thanks alot for making it. one question. rather than relocating the vent hose can we just simply leave it off? i dont submerge my atv in water and dont run it through mud, so am i able to just leave it off?

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by uchi
this is a great thread, thanks alot for making it. one question. rather than relocating the vent hose can we just simply leave it off? i dont submerge my atv in water and dont run it through mud, so am i able to just leave it off?

You could, I suppose, but I wouldn't.... Honda put the hose on there for a reason and I would keep that way, just my $.02 worth, your mileage may vary.

[uchi]

fair enough, ill make it work :)

itll give me something to do this weekend, suppose i could use it as an excuse to get out of unpacking things at my new house :D

[richards]

Hey zrpilot, received the adapter, thanks!

I installed my carb today and have a question about how the rubber boot to the air cleaner fits on the adapter. In the pic below yours looks like mine - the boot does not go all the way onto the adapter. My boot does not want to grab on well, I can easily slip it off with my hands even when the hose clamp is tight.

Any tips on how to get this joint to be more secure? I'm thinking about sanding/grinding inside the airbox boot to move the ridge in further and allow it to slip over the adapter fully. Thoughts?

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l97/zrpilot/IMG_0604.jpg

[zrpilot]

Another thing that has worked is to rough up the surface of the adapter slightly using some emery cloth, that in combination with roughing up the air horn should work!
Originally posted by richards
Hey zrpilot, received the adapter, thanks!

I installed my carb today and have a question about how the rubber boot to the air cleaner fits on the adapter. In the pic below yours looks like mine - the boot does not go all the way onto the adapter. My boot does not want to grab on well, I can easily slip it off with my hands even when the hose clamp is tight.

Any tips on how to get this joint to be more secure? I'm thinking about sanding/grinding inside the airbox boot to move the ridge in further and allow it to slip over the adapter fully. Thoughts?

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l97/zrpilot/IMG_0604.jpg

[zrpilot]

also make sure the two surfaces are 100% oil free by using some brake clean

[richards]

Good points, cleaning the rubber made a big difference, must have ad some fuel and/or filter oil on there before. I think I'll rough up the surfaces as you suggest for good measure.

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by richards
Good points, cleaning the rubber made a big difference, must have ad some fuel and/or filter oil on there before. I think I'll rough up the surfaces as you suggest for good measure.
AWESOME! Glad it Worked!

[trx400 rider]

y do you have to drill a hole in that vent and put a bolt there

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by trx400 rider
y do you have to drill a hole in that vent and put a bolt there

So it does not get pinched when the tank rests on top of the carb.

[trx400 rider]

then where do i drill the new hole at so it can air flow out.and thanks alot with all you help

[zrpilot]

Drill the projection that is cast shut and located 90 degrees to the existing vent.

[trx400 rider]

ok thanks i see that now.
so the steps are to.
1 find the main jet
2 find the pilot
3 drill and cap the holes .
4 find the clip notch
5 and find the poistion in the air screw coorect

[uchi]

as much as i look forward to this mod i really dont wanna get into tuning a carb. anyone have a link or some helpful info on adjusting a 450r carb for a newbe?

[BassHunter0123]

Originally posted by zrpilot
Another thing that has worked is to rough up the surface of the adapter slightly using some emery cloth, that in combination with roughing up the air horn should work!
i understand what you mean but i dont think its that critical.

[trx400 rider]

ok theres tow cables coming from my carb ones a throttle cable and what is my other one i was guesin a choke is that correct

[richards]

The other cable on the 450R carb is the hot start, that's the cable you want to remove. But keep the plunger, spring, and cap installed and seal off the cable hole in the cap with some silicone to keep dirt out.

[trx400 rider]

its like a brake cable.i thought the hot start was the wire with and cap at the end

[zrpilot]

trx400 rider,

Nope.. it is not. Richards is correct, it is the hot start.

so how much power really is there to be gained on a internally stock quad? i hear throttle response but that doesnt matter to me i have the choke plate removed and the timing advanced. Has anyone tried removing the choke plate in the R carb?

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by FlewByU352
so how much power really is there to be gained on a internally stock quad? i hear throttle response but that doesnt matter to me i have the choke plate removed and the timing advanced. Has anyone tried removing the choke plate in the R carb?
The R carb does not have a traditional choke plate like the stock 400EX carb. It uses an enrichment circuit.

As far as how one performs one a bones stock 400EX, IMO, good enough to make me do it on my next 400EX! Nice upgrade and allows you to do additional mods without having to upgrade the carb!!!

[trx400 rider]

ok thanks.so when i disconect that,you guys said to leave all the srings and stuff in there correct.and what is the point of takein that out. sorry for all the questions im just trying to get this done right i dont want to mess up

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by trx400 rider
ok thanks.so when i disconect that,you guys said to leave all the srings and stuff in there correct.and what is the point of takein that out. sorry for all the questions im just trying to get this done right i dont want to mess up
Technically, I suppose, you don't have to take the cable off.

MOST importantly you must MAKE sure the hot start is sealed off otherwise the quad WILL NOT run correctly!!

[trx400 rider]

ok so it will be ok to just tuck it out of the way

[400exMO]

Originally posted by trx400 rider
ok so it will be ok to just tuck it out of the way
You will be fine

[trx400 rider]

ok cool.. and that leak jet you were all talking about do i need to get one or a new one.

[trx400 rider]

ok im confused again lol u told me to get a 50 and 52 pilot jet and when i was looking around some people were only useing 42 piolt and 155 main. and they are much more modded then mine. mine has a pro cricut pip k&n air filter and .50 borded over

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by trx400 rider
ok im confused again lol u told me to get a 50 and 52 pilot jet and when i was looking around some people were only useing 42 piolt and 155 main. and they are much more modded then mine. mine has a pro cricut pip k&n air filter and .50 borded over

I can't tell you WHAT EXACTLY will work with your quad, but I can help get you close.

[richards]

Originally posted by trx400 rider
ok im confused again lol u told me to get a 50 and 52 pilot jet and when i was looking around some people were only useing 42 piolt and 155 main. and they are much more modded then mine. mine has a pro cricut pip k&n air filter and .50 borded over

42 sounds small for the 450R carb on the 400ex. Also watch what you read on mains - the numbers are different for Keihin and Dynojet mains. For example, a Dynojet 155 is in between a Keihin 170 and 172 in terms of the size of the hole in the jet. It is confusing that they use different labeling schemes.

zrpilot's recommendations for you sound reasonable. My stock 400ex is running pretty good with a 48 pilot and a 172 Keihin main in a 450R carb. I just picked up a 50 pilot and will give that a try soon. It makes sense that your modded engine would likely need a slightly larger pilot and main.

And I will second the fact that nobody is going to be able to tell you exactly what will work. You will need to buy a handful of jets and try them along with different needle clip settings

[richards]

Originally posted by trx400 rider
its like a brake cable.i thought the hot start was the wire with and cap at the end

This brings up a good point that I have not seen mentioned yet (or maybe I missed it)... The 450R carb comes with a heater installed and there is no existing electrical connection for this on the 400ex. I just removed the heater, although you could leave it in place and just tuck the wires out of the way.

The heater is brass, located on the bottom of the carb next to the fuel screw, has a 12mm hex head on it, and 2 wires coming out leading to a 2 prong connector. You can just unscrew it and leave it off, the hole it leaves does not have any passages into the carb. It was put there to heat the carb to prevent ice from forming and I bet the 400ex does not have one since it is air cooled and the head runs hot enough to prevent carb icing.

[richards]

Originally posted by FlewByU352
so how much power really is there to be gained on a internally stock quad? i hear throttle response but that doesnt matter to me i have the choke plate removed and the timing advanced. Has anyone tried removing the choke plate in the R carb?

You are right, it is not really about power on a stock engine. I have just done mine so no extended test yet but I am looking for better throttle response, not much more power. I did not want to remove the choke from the stock carb, I do enough cold weather riding to make that impractical. The 450R design is better here, you get an enricher circuit without the choke plate so that is a plus. Basically my thinking is that I would like to have the carb upgrade first as it provides a good base for any future mods.

[exquad]

Im in the process of putting the 450r carb in and i know that i am supposed to use a 450r fuel line, but that fuel line is much bigger than the stock. My question is, the size of the fuel line needed on the carb is much bigger than the one needed on the fuel tank, which means the new fuel line would have to have one end big enough to fit the carb and the other end would have to be smaller to fit the fuel tank, what do i do?

[Snipe]

use the 400ex fuel line get one end wet with a bit of oil to cause it to expand and the oil acts as a lubricant. It will go on pretty easy after that.

[exquad]

Ok, also i have the 450r throttle cable and it doesnt seem to be working, it seems to be too short. By the time i get the throttle cable all set up on the carb there is absolutely no slack on the thumb throttle side, any suggestions?

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by exquad
Ok, also i have the 450r throttle cable and it doesnt seem to be working, it seems to be too short. By the time i get the throttle cable all set up on the carb there is absolutely no slack on the thumb throttle side, any suggestions?

It should work. Check to make sure the cable is routed correctly and that it IS in fact the correct cable.

[exquad]

i checked the package that it came in and it said that it was for a 450r, is there any way to compare the numbers on the cable to someone who has the right cable. (its a motion pro cable)

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by exquad
i checked the package that it came in and it said that it was for a 450r, is there any way to compare the numbers on the cable to someone who has the right cable. (its a motion pro cable)

Oops.. Can't help you on that I only have used the stock 450R Honda cable.

It is possible that the Motion Pro cable is shorter...

[exquad]

OK i go the new carb in, but i am having some troubles, i htink it may be the jets. After the bike gets warm it will run like a champ, but 1) it takes a little while for it to warm up and 2) sometimes after its warm and ive rode it for a bit and then i turn it off, it can be a pain to get it to turn back on.

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by exquad
OK i go the new carb in, but i am having some troubles, i htink it may be the jets. After the bike gets warm it will run like a champ, but 1) it takes a little while for it to warm up and 2) sometimes after its warm and ive rode it for a bit and then i turn it off, it can be a pain to get it to turn back on.

We will need more info...
new or used carb?
engine mods?
jetting?
how did you handle the Hot start?

[exquad]

It is a used carb (2005)
440 kit, k&N filter, white bros slip on
180 main jet, 48 pilot, 4 turns out
The hit start is gone, i didnt do anything with it b/c i wasnt exactly sure, so as of right now it is just a hole.

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by exquad
It is a used carb (2005)
440 kit, k&N filter, white bros slip on
180 main jet, 48 pilot, 4 turns out
The hit start is gone, i didnt do anything with it b/c i wasnt exactly sure, so as of right now it is just a hole.

Ya gotta fix the hot start. Replace ALL the components that make up the hot start assembly then try it!

[exquad]

That may be a problem, b/c the only reason it isnt there right now is b/c it didnt come with one.???

[matt14c]

I seen that some of you are losing the white plastic piece between the tank and motor. Is this safe to do? Can the tank that much heat coming from the motor? What about the throttle cable that dangles there. Any rub issues there?

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by matt14c
I seen that some of you are losing the white plastic piece between the tank and motor. Is this safe to do? Can the tank that much heat coming from the motor? What about the throttle cable that dangles there. Any rub issues there?
I did not have to lose the white heat shield...
:confused:

[matt14c]

Did you just trim it then for it to fit. Unless a reposistion the way the throttle cable comes out it will not work. The carb is too tall and fat.

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by matt14c
Did you just trim it then for it to fit. Unless a reposistion the way the throttle cable comes out it will not work. The carb is too tall and fat. I did not need to do that.

[richards]

I had to hack mine up a bit at the back to clear the carb... zrpilot are you saying the shield fit unmodified for you? No way that would have worked on mine (2006 model)

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by richards
I had to hack mine up a bit at the back to clear the carb... zrpilot are you saying the shield fit unmodified for you? No way that would have worked on mine (2006 model)

Honestly guys it has been awhile, but I don't remember modding it, but old age is a sinister thing!

Your mileage may vary!

[Snipe]

My 08 didnt have to trim it either just place and reassamble.

[matt14c]

OK got it all together and running. The thottle seems to be sticking a little or just lets off real hesitant like. Its in the carb itself. The cable is real snappy and working just fine. Any ideas?

Took out three times seems to be running a little lean. Head pipes are glowing for about 4-5 inches out the motor. It is a fresh 416 with brand new headpipe it takes about 8-10 minutes of putting around to get there and it was about 80 or so out today. I have a 175 main and 50 pilot on 4th slot down setting on needle. Soon as it cools tonight I will check the plug.

Also there is a little poof after I turn it off. Never heard that before either? Its not a harsh backfire I actually originally thought it was coming from the air box but its not. All tubes and things are tight with expansion clamps.

[odog]

did anyone test the 06 and up carbs vs the 04-05 carbs i always heard fcr carbs performed better. im still running my stock carb right now and havent fully decided what carb to use but since money is an issue i might have to use the 04-05 carb but i do have a lot of engine work done so if the newer carbs are much better than i will probley go that route. so if anyone knows or have actually test results let me know.thanks

[matt14c]

If you read through the other 450R carb install and jetting threads they talk about it on there. I believe they are too tall and will not fit or atleast not fit without some modification. If you were still able to get your hands on a zr adaptor from zrpilot this install is a breeze.

[monster400ex]

now how much of a difference is there between the stock 04-05 fcr carb and the edelbrock carb for the 04-05 450
i just picked it up for a good price hope i didnt screw myself

[slightlybent47]

Originally posted by odog
did anyone test the 06 and up carbs vs the 04-05 carbs i always heard fcr carbs performed better. im still running my stock carb right now and havent fully decided what carb to use but since money is an issue i might have to use the 04-05 carb but i do have a lot of engine work done so if the newer carbs are much better than i will probley go that route. so if anyone knows or have actually test results let me know.thanks

I think but I’m not sure the 06 carb can be bored and the 05 can’t.
And the 05 is a round slide and the 06 is a flat slide.
I have a 05 on mine and I like it, the whole mod was less than $100.00.
Used 05 450 carb $25.00
Hot start $ 27.00
Throttle cable $25.00
Adaptor $2.59 made it myself.


http://i50.tinypic.com/208wneb.jpg

[400excm]

hey thats really nice how much would you want for one because i was thinking about buying one if its not too much

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by 400excm
hey thats really nice how much would you want for one because i was thinking about buying one if its not too much

PM sent...

[Thumpin440ex]

I have came up that I need to run a 450r cable in order to use the 450r carb.. Is this correct? The stock cable on the 400 will not work, as the end is diff that attaches to the linkage on the carb.. Thanks alot man

John

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by Thumpin440ex
I have came up that I need to run a 450r cable in order to use the 450r carb.. Is this correct? The stock cable on the 400 will not work, as the end is diff that attaches to the linkage on the carb.. Thanks alot man

John Yes you will ned a 450R cable. And while your at it, get a 450R fuel line. It iwll make the install easier.

[Thumpin440ex]

Originally posted by zrpilot
Yes you will ned a 450R cable. And while your at it, get a 450R fuel line. It iwll make the install easier.

Got the cable, modded the intake to let the carb, boot go onto each side of the carb.. I do think I will have to mod that white plastic part under the tank, or not run it to make things go back together.

You wouldn't happen to have a extra 450 gas line would ya ?? :D


John

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/mangler0075/400ex%20build/get-attachmentaspx.jpg

[live2surf]

ya i would like one, how much?

[12345mrjeff]

am new too the sport atv i got a 400ex 2001 it has pipe and jetted and i was wondering if the 450r carb would help me out on the power friend has a 660 i just cant beat him and he needs 2 gear so and looking for something cheap and good to get him so anybody out there go some ideas for me please help me out like to make him go hummm what did he do to that thing to beat me thanks jeff

[12345mrjeff]

do you still have a adapter for sale for the 450r to make it fit on a 400 ex if you do like to know if someone that dont know much can do the change to the 400 to a 450r carb and how much again 45 right

[Cbeasley]

Can i just use a bolt to seal up the hotstart hole? Thanks

[Cbeasley]

Can i just use a bolt to seal up the hotstart hole? Thanks

[ryd01honda]

sold my 400ex before i finished my project. and would like to sell the carb. Would come with fuel line, throttle and hotstart cables, and the installed adapter. Also relocated the vent lines. If anyone is interested send me a message.

[a4guy]

PMed.

[sheweezy]

zr..pm sent

[PLF]

Originally posted by Cbeasley
Can i just use a bolt to seal up the hotstart hole? Thanks


NO

Because the 2 ports that need to be plugged are in the bottom of the hole where there is no thread.

You can ether buy the hotstart kit for about 25$ and seal the top off. This is the easiest and safest method to do it.

Or you could block the hole completely including the ports with rtv or maybe jb weld but the risk of error is far greater and this will be non-reversable.

[Mr-Sleeper-34]

PM sent to the OP.


Originally posted by ryd01honda
sold my 400ex before i finished my project. and would like to sell the carb. Would come with fuel line, throttle and hotstart cables, and the installed adapter. Also relocated the vent lines. If anyone is interested send me a message.

^Did this sale? What are the jett settings?

[zrpilot]

I had another 10 made, 7 left as of 9-10-2011

Zrpilot

[TheAwesomehonda]

I'd like one of those adapters please.

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by TheAwesomehonda
I'd like one of those adapters please.

I have a few left, PM sent...

[TheAwesomehonda]

So i have a few questions regarding the 450r carb install. I got one that doesn't have the hot start on it at all just a threaded hole that if I blow in it air comes out two holes in the carb bore so how do i plug that off with rvt(which i'm thinking will go out those holes that the air blows out or get a short bolt for in there? other question is do i need a 450r trottle cable cuz i think the ex one on the threaded part is way to big around?

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by TheAwesomehonda
So i have a few questions regarding the 450r carb install. I got one that doesn't have the hot start on it at all just a threaded hole that if I blow in it air comes out two holes in the carb bore so how do i plug that off with rvt(which i'm thinking will go out those holes that the air blows out or get a short bolt for in there? other question is do i need a 450r trottle cable cuz i think the ex one on the threaded part is way to big around?

You will need the "guts" of the hot start. I simply used RTV to block just the opening. And you will need a 450R cable.

Oh Yeah... AND one of my adapters.!!! LOL

[TheAwesomehonda]

Originally posted by zrpilot
You will need the "guts" of the hot start. I simply used RTV to block just the opening. And you will need a 450R cable.

Oh Yeah... AND one of my adapters.!!! LOL So why can't i just thread a 1.25 tread bolt into that hole its the same thing as having the hot start part right? Hey if u'll lover your price to 25 or 30 bucks i'll take one..

[CJM]

Originally posted by TheAwesomehonda
So why can't i just thread a 1.25 tread bolt into that hole its the same thing as having the hot start part right? Hey if u'll lover your price to 25 or 30 bucks i'll take one..

Cause theres a little spring in there and such that blocks it off. Some find RTV works, me Id rather do it the right way and buy the part.

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by TheAwesomehonda
So why can't i just thread a 1.25 tread bolt into that hole its the same thing as having the hot start part right? Hey if u'll lover your price to 25 or 30 bucks i'll take one..

Lower then my cost, why don't I just send you the $13 dollar difference and save the postage? easy answer, no thanks.

[johnny440]

Hi guys, just bought a 450r carb off here and ZR's adaptor. I was hoping someone could put me in the ball park on jetting.

2007 honda 440ex
Elevation 970ft
bored to 440
full exhaust
+6 timing key
stage 2 hotcams
AMS CDI/Rev box

Just looking for a starting point on where to start jetting, havent installed the carb yet. still putting engine back together after shipping it to Gt thunder for HD stud install.

Thanks for any help.

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by johnny440
Hi guys, just bought a 450r carb off here and ZR's adaptor. I was hoping someone could put me in the ball park on jetting.

2007 honda 440ex
Elevation 970ft
bored to 440
full exhaust
+6 timing key
stage 2 hotcams
AMS CDI/Rev box

Just looking for a starting point on where to start jetting, havent installed the carb yet. still putting engine back together after shipping it to Gt thunder for HD stud install.

Thanks for any help.

First make sure it has a stock 450R needle. Adjust the float to the proper level. And PLEASE make sure ALL the STOCK HONDA hot start components are in place. Then I would start here:

Main: 175
Pilot 52
Needle: #4 position

zr

[johnny440]

Originally posted by zrpilot
First make sure it has a stock 450R needle. Adjust the float to the proper level. And PLEASE make sure ALL the STOCK HONDA hot start components are in place. Then I would start here:

Main: 175
Pilot 52
Needle: #4 position

zr

Thanks for the adaptor and the help ZR and everyone else that helped. The 440/11:1 + 450r carb + spal fan rebuild is complete. Its alive, its alive! (evil laugh)

[JOHNDOE83]

I just dont understand how a spring with a rubber piece capd with RTV is better then being completly solid?

I mean to install the adapter, isnt it held on with RTV?

In theory, that would leak just as much as a RTV'd hotstart right?

I think a four dollar 2in rubber grommet from lowes works better to connect the airbox then a RTV'd adapter, thats just my opinion though.

[Zeb400EX]

My adapter has been rtv'd on for three years now and has had zero problems!

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by JOHNDOE83
I just dont understand how a spring with a rubber piece capd with RTV is better then being completly solid?

I mean to install the adapter, isnt it held on with RTV?

In theory, that would leak just as much as a RTV'd hotstart right?

I think a four dollar 2in rubber grommet from lowes works better to connect the airbox then a RTV'd adapter, thats just my opinion though. how do you connect to pieces of rubber? my adapter simply allows the stock air box locations stay where it is and still give a solid mounting surface for the air horn

the key for installation of the adapter is making sure you do not grind the ridges on the carburetor too far down. Then you get a press fit on the adapter and the rtv is simply used to seal against air leaks.

[JOHNDOE83]

Originally posted by Zeb400EX
My adapter has been rtv'd on for three years now and has had zero problems!

I agree and understand, Just some people say you cant RTV the hotstart without the factory hotstart pieces because it will leak, I have had my RTV sealed hotstart for about 4 years.

My statement was only to try and make a point.



Originally posted by zrpilot
how do you connect to pieces of rubber? my adapter simply allows the stock air box locations stay where it is and still give a solid mounting surface for the air horn

the key for installation of the adapter is making sure you do not grind the ridges on the carburetor too far down. Then you get a press fit on the adapter and the rtv is simply used to seal against air leaks.

The rubber grommet can be used by it self with excellent results but is kinda flimsy IMO, Before I went to a open filter type setup I used the rubber grommet with a piece of alluminum tubing that had the same size I.D. as the stock air boot opening I cut the tubing a lil under 1/2in long, once the tubing is in the air boot you can slide the grommet on and hose clamp it down. You could use any type of tubing, I just had the alluminum on hand at the time.

This also allows for the airbox to remain in the same place.

Those are quality adapters that you make, I may have had a bad day and saw a few posts about absolutly needing the hotstart pieces and felt the need to vent. I unfortunatly put it in your thread and I apologize. :)

[JonBsbB]

Will an 04-05 450R carb work on the '08 EX? Also will i notice gains? I have slip on, K&N w/outerwear, no lid, EX carb is jetted, a sparks timing key, and i tooth down on front sprocket.

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by JonBsbB
Will an 04-05 450R carb work on the '08 EX? Also will i notice gains? I have slip on, K&N w/outerwear, no lid, EX carb is jetted, a sparks timing key, and i tooth down on front sprocket.

I think it would work.

[slightlybent47]

Originally posted by JOHNDOE83
I just dont understand how a spring with a rubber piece capd with RTV is better then being completly solid?

I mean to install the adapter, isnt it held on with RTV?

In theory, that would leak just as much as a RTV'd hotstart right?

I think a four dollar 2in rubber grommet from lowes works better to connect the airbox then a RTV'd adapter, thats just my opinion though.

Along with the little spring is a little needle valve that goes in there that plugs the little hole at the bottom of the hot start hole. I assume that at times the needle valve will open up and let air or fuel go by depending on if it is hot or cold. I could be wrong on that but there is a little hole at the bottom of the hot start hole and a needle valve that goes in there.

[hondaREX]

ZR, do you have any adapters left? And when using your adapter, you used RTV on the carb side and have had no problems? Let it set up overnight and your good? Thanks.

[zrpilot]

PM sent


Originally posted by hondaREX
ZR, do you have any adapters left? And when using your adapter, you used RTV on the carb side and have had no problems? Let it set up overnight and your good? Thanks.

[e46_330i]

Maybe a few people in here can help me out.. Just bought an adapter from zrpilot and ordered a new 04-05 450r carb, cable, and fuel line from servicehonda.com. There is a local dealer that I can get jets from but I have a few questions.

300-600ft above sea level
2004 400ex
Powroll +4mm crank
Powroll stock bore 11.5:1 piston
stage 2 cam
mild port and polish

What would be a good place to start?

I was thinking a 50 pilot, stock mixture, 185 main & stock needle. Sound close?

Also, since buying new, should I have to worry about setting the float bowl or should it be good to go?

[zrpilot]

Stock needle on the 4th (one notch DOWN, past center) notch down from the top.

Otherwise adjust the pilot per my procedure and you should be quite close.

Lastly.. hot start... Simply use the silicone RTV to seal the opening left by the cable, that's it.. leave the stock hot start components in place.

Zrpilot
Originally posted by e46_330i
Maybe a few people in here can help me out.. Just bought an adapter from zrpilot and ordered a new 04-05 450r carb, cable, and fuel line from servicehonda.com. There is a local dealer that I can get jets from but I have a few questions.

300-600ft above sea level
2004 400ex
Powroll +4mm crank
Powroll stock bore 11.5:1 piston
stage 2 cam
mild port and polish

What would be a good place to start?

I was thinking a 50 pilot, stock mixture, 185 main & stock needle. Sound close?

Also, since buying new, should I have to worry about setting the float bowl or should it be good to go?

[e46_330i]

Originally posted by zrpilot
Stock needle on the 4th (one notch DOWN, past center) notch down from the top.

Otherwise adjust the pilot per my procedure and you should be quite close.

Lastly.. hot start... Simply use the silicone RTV to seal the opening left by the cable, that's it.. leave the stock hot start components in place.

Zrpilot

So I have read all the pages in this thread but there is one thing I don't understand. Will the hotstart still be useable? Or should I just do use the RTV and forget about that feature of the carb?

[zrpilot]

Nope the Hot start will not be use able, but you need the hot start components in place or else it will REALLY whack your jetting attempts and frustrate the HELL outta you trying to get it to run correctly.

When I did mine, it went together SO smooth and ran AWESOME the first time I rode it that I thought EVERYONE could do this mod, unfortunately you get folks here that take short cuts and don't fully understand what they are doing and when they have trouble it is really unfortunate... but most times it is their quality of work that is the root cause.

So take your time, ask questions (which you ARE doing) and do it RIGHT... it will be a great mod!

[e46_330i]

Originally posted by zrpilot
Nope the Hot start will not be use able, but you need the hot start components in place or else it will REALLY whack your jetting attempts and frustrate the HELL outta you trying to get it to run correctly.

When I did mine, it went together SO smooth and ran AWESOME the first time I rode it that I thought EVERYONE could do this mod, unfortunately you get folks here that take short cuts and don't fully understand what they are doing and when they have trouble it is really unfortunate... but most times it is their quality of work that is the root cause.

So take your time, ask questions (which you ARE doing) and do it RIGHT... it will be a great mod!

Thanks! I am replacing an old and worn out Edelbrock Qwiksilver carb. I was hoping to find a parts carb or at least a few replacement parts but I never really had luck seeing as they are discontinued and also didn't like the lag it had down low when punching it; it would barely lift the front wheels in 2nd. It SCREAMED up top though. Hoping this carb will get me the low end that I should have from the stroker crank and still haul up top.

[laxman1306]

i want one how much?