Outlaw 525 runs like crap

[ojcool]

Hmmm, I'm at 187' elevation and I have the blue needle 4th clip with 175 main stock pilot. I put a wideband on the bike and was getting 14:1 - 13.5:1 a/f at rev. On the main the bike is an animal but the drivability is terrible. It stalls really really easy and without much warning.

What pilots are you guys running? I just ordered a 45 cause I just don't know what else to do with this bike. It has less than 3 hours on it and it ran like this since I bought it.


I have modded the stock exhaust and two 2" holes in the top of the airbox lid. Uni Filter. JD jet kit with thick o ring on.

The bike will stall if you punch the throttle at idle like it's getting too much fuel from the accelerator pump. But the wideband reads lean as hell,, I'm confused. heeeeelllllp going on 4 day trip to hatfield mcoy this weekend.... Plus I don't have much time to work on this biach.

Someone on another forums said it's possible that the valves are out of adjustment... the bike makes a little valve noise at idle, but not much, like a V8 with a solid lifter cam.

Anyone make any changes to the TPS sensor? What affect does it have????

I hate it when a wideband is telling you one thing but the bike is telling you something else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wierd intermittent stalling is really annoying and DANGEROUS!!

[OutlawBill]

Lean slow jet too; replace the slow air jet with a 80 (stock100) or pilot jet too a 48 or 50 (Stock 45?)

[ojcool]

I was told by KTM dealer that stock pilot was 40 I ordered 45.... Hope stock isn't 45.

[eerhard09]

ojcool, despite what the a/f mixture is telling you, I think you are way too rich. At 187 ft, I would think you should be no different than the majority in that range. The blue needle is a much richer needle and designed for cold temps (winter riding). I am running an open air box (well was until I put the EHS Racing lid on it) and the stock filter with the open end cap on the exhaust. My settings, according to the plug, are ever so slightly rich. I have the red needle on the 5th clip, stock pilot and air screw, and a 168 main and it pulls hard all the way through the RPMs. You may want to try those settings and see how it runs!

[ojcool]

Anyone else at this elevation?

[ojcool]

Originally posted by eerhard09
ojcool, despite what the a/f mixture is telling you, I think you are way too rich. At 187 ft, I would think you should be no different than the majority in that range. The blue needle is a much richer needle and designed for cold temps (winter riding). I am running an open air box (well was until I put the EHS Racing lid on it) and the stock filter with the open end cap on the exhaust. My settings, according to the plug, are ever so slightly rich. I have the red needle on the 5th clip, stock pilot and air screw, and a 168 main and it pulls hard all the way through the RPMs. You may want to try those settings and see how it runs!

I have alot more done to my exhaust, you would not believe how restrictive the exhaust inside. I'll give it a try if putting more fuel in down low will not improve my situation.

[honda450rider33]

Originally posted by ojcool
Hmmm, I'm at 187' elevation and I have the blue needle 4th clip with 175 main stock pilot. I put a wideband on the bike and was getting 14:1 - 13.5:1 a/f at rev. On the main the bike is an animal but the drivability is terrible. It stalls really really easy and without much warning.

What pilots are you guys running? I just ordered a 45 cause I just don't know what else to do with this bike. It has less than 3 hours on it and it ran like this since I bought it.


I have modded the stock exhaust and two 2" holes in the top of the airbox lid. Uni Filter. JD jet kit with thick o ring on.

The bike will stall if you punch the throttle at idle like it's getting too much fuel from the accelerator pump. But the wideband reads lean as hell,, I'm confused. heeeeelllllp going on 4 day trip to hatfield mcoy this weekend.... Plus I don't have much time to work on this biach.

Someone on another forums said it's possible that the valves are out of adjustment... the bike makes a little valve noise at idle, but not much, like a V8 with a solid lifter cam.

Anyone make any changes to the TPS sensor? What affect does it have????

I hate it when a wideband is telling you one thing but the bike is telling you something else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wierd intermittent stalling is really annoying and DANGEROUS!!

this is what happens when you buy a polaris hahahah j/k

[Evasiveone]

Originally posted by eerhard09
ojcool, despite what the a/f mixture is telling you, I think you are way too rich. At 187 ft, I would think you should be no different than the majority in that range. The blue needle is a much richer needle and designed for cold temps (winter riding). I am running an open air box (well was until I put the EHS Racing lid on it) and the stock filter with the open end cap on the exhaust. My settings, according to the plug, are ever so slightly rich. I have the red needle on the 5th clip, stock pilot and air screw, and a 168 main and it pulls hard all the way through the RPMs. You may want to try those settings and see how it runs!

Stock pilot jet is a 45.

I agree with Eerhard09. The blue needle is much richer than the red. At 800 feet I am running no lid with a K&N filter and no baffle. I am running the red needle on the 4th clip with a 168 main, stock pilot and air screw. I am still on the rich side.

Have you pulled your plug?

[ojcool]

No, I put a wideband on the bike. I typically don't do plug chops but since the data I'm getting is conflicting with the way the bike runs I guess I'm going to have to go old school.

[ojcool]

Ok, I'll rejet as stated and see where we are. Thanks for the input it will save me alot of time.

[bossman525]

Originally posted by honda450rider33
this is what happens when you buy a polaris hahahah j/k
oh yeah, it must be nice to own a honda since you guy's have never once have had a jetting problem. if your going to make ignorant comments like that, go away, if you have something positive to ad to help the guy out with his problem, than cool.

[ojcool]

Originally posted by bossman525
oh yeah, it must be nice to own a honda since you guy's have never once have had a jetting problem. if your going to make ignorant comments like that, go away, if you have something positive to ad to help the guy out with his problem, than cool.
Well, whats the point in jetting a honda? Its still going to be slow.

What is your Outlaw jetted at and whats your elevation.

[ojcool]

Originally posted by bossman525
oh yeah, it must be nice to own a honda since you guy's have never once have had a jetting problem. if your going to make ignorant comments like that, go away, if you have something positive to ad to help the guy out with his problem, than cool.
Well, whats the point in jetting a honda? Its still going to be slow.

What is your Outlaw jetted at and whats your elevation.

[ojcool]

Originally posted by bossman525
oh yeah, it must be nice to own a honda since you guy's have never once have had a jetting problem. if your going to make ignorant comments like that, go away, if you have something positive to ad to help the guy out with his problem, than cool.
Well, whats the point in jetting a honda? Its still going to be slow.

What is your Outlaw jetted at and whats your elevation.

[ojcool]

Originally posted by bossman525
oh yeah, it must be nice to own a honda since you guy's have never once have had a jetting problem. if your going to make ignorant comments like that, go away, if you have something positive to ad to help the guy out with his problem, than cool.
Well, whats the point in jetting a honda? Its still going to be slow.

What is your Outlaw jetted at and whats your elevation.

[ojcool]

Originally posted by bossman525
oh yeah, it must be nice to own a honda since you guy's have never once have had a jetting problem. if your going to make ignorant comments like that, go away, if you have something positive to ad to help the guy out with his problem, than cool.
Well, whats the point in jetting a honda? Its still going to be slow.

What is your Outlaw jetted at and whats your elevation.

[ScramblerXLE]

I replied to your duplicate post on ATVconnection, hope the information helps.

[M0n5t3r]

I also had the same symptoms you are describing.I rejetted and all is fine.I have no idea what my elevation but I live in Miami FL.

[OutlawBill]

all so check out http://www.mergeracing.com/alj/index.php

[bossman525]

Originally posted by ojcool
Well, whats the point in jetting a honda? Its still going to be slow.

What is your Outlaw jetted at and whats your elevation.
what are the temps outside you are riding in? if its above 75 or 80 degrees you need to go the red needle. you might want try adjusting your fuel screw, mine was doing the same thing when it was 1 & 3/4 turns out. i'm about 2 & 1/4 turns now seemed to fix that low speed bog. i have the ehs lid with stock exhaust and about the same elevation as you and i have the 165 main thick o-ring stock pilot jet and the red needle at 4th clip position. its been about 65 to 70 degrees here when i ride and i think i'm going back to the blue needle for fall and winter. try the red needle and adjusting your fuel screw and than let us know

[honda450rider33]

Originally posted by ojcool
Well, whats the point in jetting a honda? Its still going to be slow.

What is your Outlaw jetted at and whats your elevation.

thats a good one hahaha

[06300ex]

I had the same problem..I raised the idle to a little faster(?800-1000 rpm?) No more problem!

[pred174]

yeah those 450r's run great until they throw a crank bearing

well my guess is M0n5t3r is that your 0-100 ft above sea level living in miami and he is at 187 so they would be pretty close to what u have for jetting

[honda450rider33]

those outlaws/predators are good until they start on fire, blow up, fall apart, the list goes on and on

[Predator Slim]

Originally posted by honda450rider33
those outlaws/predators are good until they start on fire, blow up, fall apart, the list goes on and on


I noticed your signature doesn't say anything about crack. It is bad for you also, stay away from it while posting.

[honda450rider33]

you are going to tell me that polaris has had no problems with them starting on fire because of where there genius engineers placed the fuel line

[eerhard09]

I have yet to hear of any problems with fires on the 525.... Besides, that was not the Polaris that was on fire, it was coming from you when an Outlaw smoked you!

[Predator Slim]

Originally posted by honda450rider33
you are going to tell me that polaris has had no problems with them starting on fire because of where there genius engineers placed the fuel line

Are you going to show us, some sort of proof? Or do we just take your word for it? I am yet to hear of them catching fire. But my pred has been known to light up a few 450R's.

[bossman525]

hondas have a had a problem throwing crank bearings in the past. but the worst problem i think they have is that they can not get out of my way, let alone get out of there own way. and outlaws having fires??? were do you get your info? have you seen or heard of one catching on fire? dude, your a moron, go bash in some other forum unless you have something productive to say

[M0n5t3r]

These friggin honda owners are almost getting as bad as the rapturd riders.:devil: Admitting Denial is the first step to the truth boys!!!!!!

[honda450rider33]

Originally posted by eerhard09
I have yet to hear of any problems with fires on the 525.... Besides, that was not the Polaris that was on fire, it was coming from you when an Outlaw smoked you!

that is a funny joke. what ever you say about honda i would still take honda over a polaris

[eerhard09]

Originally posted by honda450rider33
that is a funny joke. what ever you say about honda i would still take honda over a polaris

Awe, it's the "I've officially made an *** of myself and you guys got to me" comment! Now run along and go play with the rest of the window lickers and leave the men to do their thing....

[katch26]

Wasnt the fuel leaking a ktm part recall?, I know ktm had the same recall on their dirtbikes.
"The recalled Polaris Outlaw ATVs may have a loose fuel valve....."
"KTM North America is recalling about 20,000 off-road motorcycles..........."



pretty sure this isnt an outlaw...or even a Polaris, but I'm still waiting on the official coroner's report.:devil:


http://www.trx450r.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=47332&st=0&start=0

[honda450rider33]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by eerhard09
Awe, it's the "I've officially made an *** of myself and you guys got to me" comment! Now run along and go play with the rest of the window lickers and leave the men to do their thing....

that is one incident and you said something about leaving the men to do there thing but you ride a polaris. and things like that can happen when you can run competatively on an mx track

[katch26]

heres another.....not a polaris

[katch26]

Originally posted by honda450rider33
[QUOTE]Originally posted by eerhard09
Awe, it's the "I've officially made an *** of myself and you guys got to me" comment! Now run along and go play with the rest of the window lickers and leave the men to do their thing....
that is one incident and you said something about leaving the men to do there thing but you ride a polaris. and things like that can happen when you can run competatively on an mx track
he wasnt racing mx he was drag racing.
but how many incident of crank bearing failures does it take for it to be a "problem"?, this isnt brand bashing but to say ANY manufacturer that has problems is only that manufacturer is naive.
http://www.trx450r.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=26815&hl=crank+bearings
http://www.trx450r.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=45600&hl=crank+bearings
http://www.exriders.com/vbb/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=1715841&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending 18 topics there
http://www.*******.net/forums/index.php?act=Search&CODE=show&searchid=1e6eb5943a8889e8a7c340ddb045d53f&search_in=titles&result_type=topics&highlite=crank+bearing 3 topics there

[eerhard09]

It sounds like there are a lot of incedences of the 450R having major issues and not one of the Outlaws catching fire like you claim. Oh, and you ride a 450R; I thought you said you ride competitively on the MX track? I am pretty sure that the Outlaw 525 was not designed for the track but I believe the new Outlaw 450 is and will leave you on the line faster than you can imagine. With the same HP output as the 525 and 40lbs lighter, your little 450R is going to be in trouble in a big way against the Outlaw. If I can outrun a 450R with my Stock 525, the Outlaw 450 will destroy the Honda. Good luck on being "Competitive" and I hope you have a good pit crew who can swap motors quickly!

[M0n5t3r]

:devil: Heh

[honda450rider33]

i would rather replace 100 crank bearings on a honda than be seen riding a polaris good day

[eerhard09]

Originally posted by honda450rider33
i would rather replace 100 crank bearings on a honda than be seen riding a polaris good day

Gotcha, so it is all about looks and image.... That makes you a POSER then!

I suppose you bought Honda because someone told you it was cool and the red matched your lip gloss! Now I understand your comment and where you are coming from.

I am actually still waiting on proof of the burned up Outlaw 525....

[honda450rider33]

Originally posted by eerhard09
Gotcha, so it is all about looks and image.... That makes you a POSER then!

I suppose you bought Honda because someone told you it was cool and the red matched your lip gloss! Now I understand your comment and where you are coming from.

I am actually still waiting on proof of the burned up Outlaw 525....

there is two reasons i ride a 450 1. i wanted a real quad 2. its a honda

[eerhard09]

Originally posted by honda450rider33
there is two reasons i ride a 450 1. i wanted a real quad 2. its a honda

And it is pretty and red!

Not the fastest but at least You can say you ride a Honda with bad crank bearings.... I will just stay on the trails riding while you wrench on your "100 bad crank bearings"....ha ha, what a joke!

Well, you stick to your 3 lap races since it is what "all the mens do" and I will just stick to my hour long minimum Harescrambles.... At least you know you will not lose to a Polaris then, well at least not till their 450's hit the tracks! Thats going to suck, your real quad losing to a fake one!

[katch26]

Originally posted by honda450rider33
i would rather replace 100 crank bearings on a honda than be seen riding a polaris good day

well just own it for a couple years and you might get your wish

[polaris bob]

Ah, nothing quite like arguing with a 16 year old know it all on the internet to get the old blood pumping!! LOL


Did the guy ever get his bike jetted correctly??

[eerhard09]

Polaris Bob, I do not think he has had the chance to rejet or at least come on here to say if he did or not. I think that it has only been a day since he said he would try the recommended settings and get back to us. I would imagine that with the success of these setting for so many people, it should get him very close.

I remember being young and dumb and making statements which had no backing....:D

[honda450rider33]

i knew i heard something about an outlaw recall because of a fire hazard

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml07/07560.html

[eerhard09]

There were no fires that I ever heard of. It was a tank manufacturer issue and only on a few. There was a potential for the tank to leak at the petcock so they replaced them before it became a problem, not after the problem caused major damage, such as faulty crank bearings destroying motors....

[M0n5t3r]

YEs ,I had to replace my tank becuase of the recall,Also kawasaki 450 has the same recall.Its a leaky tank big deal.This still doesn't take away from the fact that your honda,yamaha.kawi,suzuki will have to be modded to even catch a glimpse of a 525 outlaw.Trust me I know ,I had a atk/cannondale that would flat out fly and my 525 smoked it.Along with everything else Ihave ran aginst.Now we have a model in the 450 area as well.I dont want to be the one who said I told you so,BUT next year may well be the year that pple stop putting polaris down and actualy realize that they put out a good product.The KTM motor is just far more powerful than anything out there atm.:devil:

[honda450rider33]

well then your cannondale must have been half blown up someone i know has a 440 speed and it is pretty much stock except for a slipon hmf and i guarentee that it will smoke any outlaw. outlaws are not that much faster than a predator they have them by like 10 cc it is a 510 well it is a ktm not a polaris so that changes alot but still they are not that much faster than the predator and a 450 will hand a predator its a** in any kind of race. with a good rider on both i am done arguing this whole predator vs. outlaw vs. 450 i have done it several times and we all know there is only one way to settle it

[bossman525]

Originally posted by honda450rider33
well then your cannondale must have been half blown up someone i know has a 440 speed and it is pretty much stock except for a slipon hmf and i guarentee that it will smoke any outlaw. outlaws are not that much faster than a predator they have them by like 10 cc it is a 510 well it is a ktm not a polaris so that changes alot but still they are not that much faster than the predator and a 450 will hand a predator its a** in any kind of race. with a good rider on both i am done arguing this whole predator vs. outlaw vs. 450 i have done it several times and we all know there is only one way to settle it
good, than leave ***. go back to the honda forums, or better yet go to the change your diaper and wipe your nose forum. before you start talking liking a man, know what your talking about first, than you wont have to stick your thumb in your mouth every time you open your mouth

[Predator Slim]

Originally posted by honda450rider33
a 450 will hand a predator its a** in any kind of race. with a good rider on both

I'll take that challenge, dumbass.:rolleyes:

[Bradracer18]

I was thinking that exact same thing!! I'll definatly take it, if I had one of the KTM 450's......read up on your stuff bud...all the magazines are even putting the KTM far ahead!!

[ojcool]

Well, it's only been almost a year since I put up this thread but anyway guess what?

Over the months I screwed with this thing (not constantly just off and on) and it almost literally drove me insane I can finally post what was wrong all along. First off there was a tiny little problem with the kill switch wiring. It had gotten pinched somehow and there was just a tiny little cut in the insulation. PART of the problem was this was shorting out when I turned sharply to the left and killing the engine. It took a long while to figure out that out though. That was only HALF the problem. The second part (and this took me a very very long time to figure out) whichever KTM employee that assembled the engine must have been hung over that day. Somehow when he installed the pilot screw he accidentally screwed up the sequence. Instead of pilot needle, spring, washer, o-ring. He assembled it pilot needle, spring, o-ring, washer. Well without the washer the spring crushed one side of the o-ring so it would never seal. So that explains the lean problem. No matter how big of a jet, or how rich I tried to make the slow speed screw the o-ring has been letting air into the pilot circuit effectively making it very lean. That explains why the bike would only run good at WOT and stalled constantly. It also explains why it did not seem to matter what settings I would use the bike would always do the same thing.
Anyway, thought you guys would want to know. Not the first thing you check when your having problems.

[SSJEFF]

I just read this whole thread. I am glad you got it going. Maybe there is some hope for the 13 year old honda lover that likes to get on Polaris sections and talk trash.

[ojcool]

Well, I can't say I'm a huge Polaris fan either. I would never have bought this bike if it did not have the KTM engine on it. I think Polaris makes a good reliable quad but performance isn't exactly their strong point. My neighbor has a predator 500 and I have not been very impressed with its power the few times I have ridden it. I like the suspension (troy lee edition) and it's very reliable, but fast, no. It's dead stock so I can't speak for one that has some basic modifications, from what I have read they are not very impressive, but I could be wrong.

[ojcool]

I don't like Honda either though. I have always been more of a Yamaha and Kawasaki man. Yamaha really needs to step it up though they need to redesign the YFZ450 and come out with a better engine for the Grizzly and Raptor. The Raptor 700 is a real stinker for the size of the engine, the Outlaw will walk all over Raptors.
I have a Kawasaki Brute force 650 SRA and I love that bike, it's not the fastest but I will sure as hell beat the piss out of a Grizzy 660, I mean it's not even a race. I have not raced a 700.
My other neighbor has a CanAm Outlander 800 and that is a fast utility quad, I think it's kind of silly to make Utility Quads that fast though. They are for comfort not racing. I know there are Utility quad classes now but I still think it's silly. Buy a damn sport quad if you want to go fast. Thats really the beauty (and the reason I got) of the Outlaw. It has the same carrier clearance that the CanAm outlander has but it is a sport quad, so I can pretty much go anywhere he can now (I was riding a Banshee) and then blow his doors off and he hates that.

[ojcool]

I'm going to repost this in case anyone searches and end up in this thread looking for help with outlaw 525.

Another mechanical problem that I have found was causing some drivability problems was the factory valve adjustment. After going in to do the recommended valve lash adjustment after 10 hours I found that all 4 valves were adjusted way too tight. After correcting this to the .005 KTM recommended setting I found on initial start up the bike idled about 200 rpms faster and ran about 80% better everywhere. So if you're having problems don't just assume that it's jetting. If you have it jetted close to what everyone else is running and you're still having problems you should confirm that other issues may be causing this beyond just carb settings. So far on this bike I have found the following:
1) There was a pinch in the kill switch wiring that was causing a short when I turned the bike to the left (I just thought it was stalling at low speed)
2) The air screw was mis-installed from the factory causing the o ring to be crushed and not seal completely
3) The valve adjustment was so tight that it was causing the valves to not seal completely and obvious drivability issues were resulting.

All this caused me to waste a great deal of time (not to mention frustration) trying different jet settings. Don't learn everything the hard way like I did.
These are also all issues that the dealer would likely have not found and kept giving me the bike back unfixed had I taken it to them. It's been a long road but I think I am finally going to get to enjoy my quad now.

[honda450rider33]

i think it is funny that polaris's motors suck so much *** that they had to go to and get a real motor from ktm. the motors will be good until polaris gets there hand on them and that will be the end of those motors.

[ojcool]

look who's talking

[honda450rider33]

that was a good one

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by honda450rider33
i think it is funny that polaris's motors suck so much *** that they had to go to and get a real motor from ktm. the motors will be good until polaris gets there hand on them and that will be the end of those motors.

If you're going to keep posting garbage, you'll soon find yourself unable to post at all.

[bossman525]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
If you're going to keep posting garbage, you'll soon find yourself unable to post at all.

thank you

[SSJEFF]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
If you're going to keep posting garbage, you'll soon find yourself unable to post at all.

Thank you, If you read how many times he has done it in this thread alone, he ought to be out of here.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by SSJEFF
Thank you, If you read how many times he has done it in this thread alone, he ought to be out of here.

I checked his post history. Yes, he posted some garbage in this thread, but he actually helps people and answers questions in other forums.

I'm not real quick to ban people that actually answer questions and are helpful from time to time. He got his warning. that should suffice for now.

[Polaris 450MXR]

I think it sounds like he was jelous that he does not own a Polaris. The truth about polaaris is they are quickly becoming the leaders in the sport riding industry. Maybe they are borowing the KTM for now but will def be on there own within 5 years. RZR, IQ Race sled, MXR Its on and they intend on leading the charge.

[sleddog66]

I hate to say it, because I am a loyal purchaser of polaris......Polaris had #1 market share of snowmobiles in the 90's, and when they went with the A-Frame front end (i.e. the IQ and the Fusion) the began to loose there market share. Pretty much it was during Tom Tillers time. They are now either #3 or #4, I'm not sure. I do Agree that their quads are up and coming, getting better all the time, but the sleds are getting worse. Maybe the new CEO will turn this around and give Polaris the #1 spot across the board soon. They will have to step up their warrenty department with better customer service and longer warrentys. These "TOYS" are getting to be close to, and in some cases, over $10,000. Yamaha nows does 4 years on their sleds.

[ojcool]

I have noticed in the ATV mags that polaris never tests well. IMO they just follow each other, no mag is going to give a good review on polaris until they start winning some races.. KTM they jock immediately. They don't test kawasaki well either, they like the utility quads but not their sport quads. It's always all honda and Yamaha. can am is making a name for themselves with big power numbers. My neighbor has a Oulander 800 and that quad is impressive powerwise but we just got back from a ride and my Kawasaki brute force 650 went up three different mudhole hills and he could not get up them. Too much power and way too nose light for a mud quad.

[gojufist]

Originally posted by Polaris 450MXR
I think it sounds like he was jelous that he does not own a Polaris. The truth about polaaris is they are quickly becoming the leaders in the sport riding industry. Maybe they are borowing the KTM for now but will def be on there own within 5 years. RZR, IQ Race sled, MXR Its on and they intend on leading the charge. Polaris is an American product,not Japanese,Chinese :D

[spanky101]

I think quad magazine is proboly one of the most fair to give the low down on the bikes... Dirtwheels is strictly yamaha. You look at the 450 shootout, im pretty sure they picked the yamaha, and thebig bore shootout, yet another yamaha. go figure

[ojcool]

Yamaha need to redesign the yfz, its time, it's been time. So many riders are going over to Can Am, Wait until KTM comes knocking, there go's another bunch. Yamaha need to move fast if they intend on getting back on top. And they better be thinking about how they are going shave weight off and bring the rain with power if they want to compete with KTM and Can Am.