Any pilots out there?

[fastyz85]

I saw some jets and stuff practicing at the beach yesterday for an airshow and i was just blown away. I was wondering what was all involved in being a jet pilot and the ups and downs of it. Any info is appreciated.

[Quad18star]

LOTS of training and hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Cheapest way to get your training is to join the air force.

I've looked into flying , and 99% of the time if you want to fly commercial airliners ( 747s , etc) you have to spend thousands of hours building up hours and most large companies will require University degrees.

You have to start at the bottom of the ladder and work your way up . No owner or company is going to throw a low time pilot into multi-million dollar equipement.

In the helicopter industry , you can be a licensed helicopter pilot having spent almost $100 000 on training and you still be sweeping floors for a few years proving that you are responsible and worthy enough to fly the whirly birds.

[MOFO]

I currently have around 130 hours built up towards my private pilots license - basically have to take the FAA written exam, brush up on my flying (its been awhile) and take the test.

If your interested in getting into the aviation industry, there are a few ways.

(1) Join the air force
(2) Go to a college that offers a flight school (expensive)
(3) Find a local airport with a FBO and take lessons - build up your flight time, work on various licenses and ratings... try to become a flight instructor to build more time then hope to find a job at a local FBO flying small jets. Once you build up more time at a local FBO, you can then look at the big guy's and go commercial. (takes the most time, but can open plenty of doors). I think the ideal job would be to find a private company or person that owns a jet and needs a pilot. Pay can be very good and great personal benefits - from what I have seen.

[killroy]

im doing option #2 right now and will be ajunior this year. I currently have 180 hours flying and got my private pilots license when I was at 50 hours. It is very expensive though but its nice getting a 4 year degree for flying airplanes. I feel like im killing 2 birds with one stone. Southern Illinois University-Carbondale, IL

[MOFO]

Originally posted by Quad18star
LOTS of training and hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Cheapest way to get your training is to join the air force.

I've looked into flying , and 99% of the time if you want to fly commercial airliners ( 747s , etc) you have to spend thousands of hours building up hours and most large companies will require University degrees.

You have to start at the bottom of the ladder and work your way up . No owner or company is going to throw a low time pilot into multi-million dollar equipement.

In the helicopter industry , you can be a licensed helicopter pilot having spent almost $100 000 on training and you still be sweeping floors for a few years proving that you are responsible and worthy enough to fly the whirly birds.

Its not as expensive as it seems if you go the 3rd route I mention above - although it takes more time, you can find a great job flying personal jets and helicopters for various company's and individuals. Networking becomes KEY when you go this route. Get to know everyone locally and NETWORK!

When I was involved in this industry, I know there were plenty of "inside" jokes about pilots who graduated from the big name flight schools (when the only experience they had was from the school) - all the way from flight instructors to executives of local FBO's... just because you have a fancy piece of paper does not mean its going to carry weight with everyone - especially in the private market. (Dont shoot the messanger - not my opinion) :)

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by MOFO
Its not as expensive as it seems if you go the 3rd route I mention above - although it takes more time, you can find a great job flying personal jets and helicopters for various company's and individuals. Networking becomes KEY when you go this route. Get to know everyone locally and NETWORK!

When I was involved in this industry, I know there were plenty of "inside" jokes about pilots who graduated from the big name flight schools (when the only experience they had was from the school) - all the way from flight instructors to executives of local FBO's... just because you have a fancy piece of paper does not mean its going to carry weight with everyone - especially in the private market. (Dont shoot the messanger - not my opinion) :)

Yeah route #3 doesn't make it seem too bad ... because you're not spending all the money at once . Different airports run different rates ... all depends on what you're flying .

Just down the street from me there's a flight school that does mainly float training in small Cessna 172's. Their hourly rate is around $175 per hour and you need a minimum of 45 hours to become licensed. There's also a $400 fee for ground school and then all the exams and medicals .

With bare minimum it would cost around $12 000 to obtain the license then if you want to get endorsed for different ratings that's extra .. along with a fee to become a flight instructor.

Route 3 is the cheapest because once you're licensed and get an instructor rating you can teach , get paid for it and build hours. Atleast you can offset the cost with the money you make .

My cousin's husband is a pilot and he's an instructor . He's got a few thousand hours and is trying to get in with a larger company ( Air Canada) to either haul freight or be a commercial pilot. It's probably a bit different down in the USA , but up here it's a tough market . All the major airlines up here require their pilots to have University degrees in some sort of flight program in order to get in with the company.

Like you said , the best jobs would be to be a private pilot for some head honcho that has a jet that needs to be flown.

The helicopter industry on the other hand is completely screwed up around here. More foreign pilots are hired as compared to Canadian pilots , which is leaving the market for Canadian pilots VERY slim.

I wanted to become a helicopter pilot , but after speaking with many guys that are in the industry , I have changed my mind .. too much BS . It costs at minimum $60 000 to become licensed .... if you want to be trained only on turbines , it's close to $72 000. After that there's a cost of almost $400 per hour of turbine. :ermm: If you do get lucky and get hired , expect to be the one sweeping floors , washing the machines and painting the boss' house or putting up a fence for him ( happens all the time). It's all about "paying your dues". You might get lucky and have the chance to ferry every once in a while . Too many guys that I have spoken to have gone bankrupt because of the long wait period to actually fly . But that's the helicopter industry .


Fixed wing is a bit more forgiving . :p

[MOFO]

Originally posted by Quad18star
Yeah route #3 doesn't make it seem too bad ... because you're not spending all the money at once . Different airports run different rates ... all depends on what you're flying .

Just down the street from me there's a flight school that does mainly float training in small Cessna 172's. Their hourly rate is around $175 per hour and you need a minimum of 45 hours to become licensed. There's also a $400 fee for ground school and then all the exams and medicals .

With bare minimum it would cost around $12 000 to obtain the license then if you want to get endorsed for different ratings that's extra .. along with a fee to become a flight instructor.

Route 3 is the cheapest because once you're licensed and get an instructor rating you can teach , get paid for it and build hours. Atleast you can offset the cost with the money you make .

My cousin's husband is a pilot and he's an instructor . He's got a few thousand hours and is trying to get in with a larger company ( Air Canada) to either haul freight or be a commercial pilot. It's probably a bit different down in the USA , but up here it's a tough market . All the major airlines up here require their pilots to have University degrees in some sort of flight program in order to get in with the company.

Like you said , the best jobs would be to be a private pilot for some head honcho that has a jet that needs to be flown.

The helicopter industry on the other hand is completely screwed up around here. More foreign pilots are hired as compared to Canadian pilots , which is leaving the market for Canadian pilots VERY slim.

I wanted to become a helicopter pilot , but after speaking with many guys that are in the industry , I have changed my mind .. too much BS . It costs at minimum $60 000 to become licensed .... if you want to be trained only on turbines , it's close to $72 000. After that there's a cost of almost $400 per hour of turbine. :ermm: If you do get lucky and get hired , expect to be the one sweeping floors , washing the machines and painting the boss' house or putting up a fence for him ( happens all the time). It's all about "paying your dues". You might get lucky and have the chance to ferry every once in a while . Too many guys that I have spoken to have gone bankrupt because of the long wait period to actually fly . But that's the helicopter industry .


Fixed wing is a bit more forgiving . :p

Ouch, when I was renting a plane, it was around $75/hr "wet" for either a 172 or Piper Warrior (if I remember right). I think 150's were $55-60/hr. That was quite a few years ago so I'm sure its increased due to fuel and inflation.

Since I worked at the FBO, I could rent a Piper Warrior for $45/hr wet... I also paid my flight instructor by taking them out to the bar later in the evening or a few bucks on the side...which is why I have so much time built up. My flight instructor wanted me to get ready for the exam right around 60 hours, but I was currently in school for something completely different and never had time to sit down and hit the books for it... something I regret and should have made extra time for - all of my experience is seat time and BS'ing with my instructor here and there over a few beers. :D

I think the most exciting part was my first solo... we did a few touch and goes, then my instructor told me to come to a complete stop on the taxi way... she jumped out and told me to complete 3 more touch and goes... I'll never forget that feeling of ---> :eek2: It was a complete surprise!

I also had the chance to go up in a helicopter a few times - a local guy who flew for a gas company... all he did was fly around and visually inspect their pipelines - he had it made!!!

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by MOFO
Ouch, when I was renting a plane, it was around $75/hr "wet" for either a 172 or Piper Warrior (if I remember right). I think 150's were $55-60/hr. That was quite a few years ago so I'm sure its increased due to fuel and inflation.

Since I worked at the FBO, I could rent a Piper Warrior for $45/hr wet... I also paid my flight instructor by taking them out to the bar later in the evening or a few bucks on the side...which is why I have so much time built up. My flight instructor wanted me to get ready for the exam right around 60 hours, but I was currently in school for something completely different and never had time to sit down and hit the books for it... something I regret and should have made extra time for.

I think the most exciting part was my first solo... we did a few touch and goes, then my instructor told me to come to a complete stop on the taxi way... she jumped out and told me to complete 3 more touch and goes... I'll never forget that feeling of ---> :eek2: It was a complete surprise!

HAHA ... Yeah ... big OUCH !!! Prices around here a few years ago hovered around the $120 per hour mark for a "wet" plane , but like you said , fuel costs have played a huge role in the price increases.

I wish my cousin's husband was still with the fly school .... I would have probably gotten a price break. I'll have to ask if he wants to go out and teach me .... I haven't spoken to him in a little while .

I heard the first solo is pretty nerve racking .. but must be a great feeling .

I've always wanted to fly . On my 16th birthday , my dad surprised me and took me down to the lake where his buddy was waiting to take us up for a 1 hour flight . My first ever experience in a plane , and I've been hooked ever since ... especially when he handed me over the controls and let me fly for about 10 minutes. It doesn't help that I live within a 2 minute walk to the fly school/airport. Every morning at 6am I hear the planes taking off and landing ... it doesn't stop until 10pm . Then I watch the students doing their take-offs , landings and touch and go's ( all performed on floats). Makes me want to get out there. :D

I want to fly floats for Lodges or get in with the forest fire fighting crews.

[GPracer2500]

I have immense respect for military aviators--especially the upper-most echelons of that group (in which I would include air show demonstrators). Those guys are the best of the best. They're smart, have tremendous physical skills, discipline I can only dream of, and a rare knack for excelling under duress.



I'm a 200hr private pilot. I've completed about half my instrument training. I went through a smallish, local flight school. I've flown C152's and C172's.

As far as making it all the way into the cockpit of a jet of any type: from what I've seen it's all about how bad you want it. If you're driven enough and dedicated enough you can do it (assuming of course you'd make a decent pilot in the first place). My impression is there are lots of people who think they want it bad enough but only some of them discover they really want it bad enough.

One of the things that surprised me about learning to fly was how much "book work" is involved, especially for instrument flight. It really takes a lot of studying. In my experience, the nuts-and-bolts of flight is more about thoughtful preparation and adherence to procedure than it is glamorous ideals. This is especially true if you want to make it a career vs. just cruising the countryside for an hour or two on the weekend. I'm not trying to be a downer--just trying to contribute a certain perspective.

Also, don't forget the chicks dig pilots! Flying your date to a mountain town for lunch is a great way to impress. :cool: AZ is a great place to fly for stuff like that. AZ is actually great for almost all flying except practicing in actual IFR conditions. Well, taxiing in 110deg summer heat in a cramped cockpit with no AC isn't so great either.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d133/gpracer2500/Christy002Small.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d133/gpracer2500/Christy015Small.jpg

Here's one of the nicer C172SP's I've flown.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d133/gpracer2500/flying016Medium.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d133/gpracer2500/flying015Small-1.jpg

Here's an old C152. Last I checked a plane like this was about ~$65/hr wet around me. Very basic and old--but good for building hours.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d133/gpracer2500/inflight005Medium.jpg

The desert floor (much of it irrigated for farming) between Phoenix and Tucson.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d133/gpracer2500/inflight002Small.jpg


Learning to fly is expensive. But it's a worthwhile pursuit even if career choice doesn't enter into it. :)

[Python]

Having been in the military flying as an Air Crewman for the last 18 years (both helo's and fixed wing), I have talked with / come across many a pilot. Those who have moved on after their service commitment to find a job in civilian aviation have had very little luck - particularly with the majors - in post 911. A few I know have had luck with private sector (as mentioned above) but usually because of connections. And alot of them are seasoned pilots with all multi-engine time, special instrument ratings, thousands of hours and international flying experience!!! I know of many that had to completely switch career paths after their service commitment.

Have a good friend who flies in the commuter world and makes absolutely crap for $$$$ - says he made more money when he was a flight mechanic - lol. No telling how long he will have to do this before he is able to "move up". Very good and experienced stick too.

It seems to be a long road in civil aviation before you make any money and can actually call it a career.

[400exstud]

You guys should really make the journey to Eaa Airventure in Oshkosh, WI. It is the best week of the year! Sooooo much to do. You can go for the entire week and not be bored. It is well worth the trip (I have to go 20 miles but I would have no problem comming 500 for it).

Here is a link www.airventure.org

Talk about lifestyles of the rich and famous. The average price for getting a private pilots certificate is $6000 - 9000. That is no laughing matter considering that that is more than most of our ATV costed when they were new. If you want to buy a plane you also have to look at
#1 The original cost of the plane ($40000 and up)
2 Insurance
3 Hangar fees
4 Annual fees
5 Oil changes ($150 a pop)
6 Overhauls of anything and everything (ENGINE!!!)

Not a cheap sport!

[fastyz85]

thanks guys. you really helped me get the actual perspective of how dedicated and hard working you have to be to make it in the aviation world.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by 400exstud
You guys should really make the journey to Eaa Airventure in Oshkosh, WI. It is the best week of the year! Sooooo much to do. You can go for the entire week and not be bored. It is well worth the trip (I have to go 20 miles but I would have no problem comming 500 for it).

Here is a link www.airventure.org

Talk about lifestyles of the rich and famous. The average price for getting a private pilots certificate is $6000 - 9000. That is no laughing matter considering that that is more than most of our ATV costed when they were new. If you want to buy a plane you also have to look at
#1 The original cost of the plane ($40000 and up)
2 Insurance
3 Hangar fees
4 Annual fees
5 Oil changes ($150 a pop)
6 Overhauls of anything and everything (ENGINE!!!)

Not a cheap sport!

I've been up there, just never made it for the big show... I have relatives that live within 30 minutes of that place.

..and to add about getting into the commercial part of aviation, a good friend of mine has had some great connections, mainly due to his father being a retired captain that now does training for a major airline - even with this pull, he had a very difficult time getting in there (full degree and TON's of flight time)... and he still has quite a ways to go before he makes the big $$$$$$, which is becoming a distant goal as time goes on. :(

[Quad18star]

GPracer2500 ... those are some great pictures. Looks like you guys are having a great time.

The more you guys talk about flying , the more I'm tempted to go down the street and sign up for my first lesson . I was doing fine for a while , had forgotten about it all , but you guys re-ignited the fire .... thanks a LOT guys !!!!!!:macho :p

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fastyz85 .

If you interested in planes and such , but don't want or can't afford to fly , look into a career as an Aircraft Maintenance Engineer . It's a great career for anyone that loves aircrafts and is single. You'll get to travel the world and make awesome money. Around here a starting AME will make $55 000 a year ... after 5 years of experience , $100 000+ is very much a reality.

It's great for someone single or unattatched , because for about 10 months out of the year you will not be home ... you'll be all over the world fixing aircrafts. I looked into it extensively , but decided against it since I don't think my girlfriend would be too pleased with me being away for so long. We're waiting for her to finish up University and we'll go from there. She's becoming an English Teacher so we'll see if she wants to teach around the World.

Around here the program is a 2 year college course with an apprenticeship that must be completed afterwards. ( 48 month apprenticeship)

Just an idea in case you never looked into it.

[fastyz85]

That does sound like a career. I just don't know about the single part. lol

[Scott-300ex]

Does anyone fly commercial?

Cuz in school I learned that they fly in an arc instead of a straight line from place to place to account for the curvature of the earth.

It is faster to fly in an /\ arch rather than a straight line -.

My uncle fly's helicopters and just keeps tellin me I'm wrong, but I know I'm not so does anyone have a picture of flight patterns where they show how they fly in an arc?

Please?

[Python]

Not sure about the arc thing...

I know when we used to fly over the pacific to the far east, we would "arc" up around Alaska sometimes - depending on jet stream / winds aloft and destination. Other times we would take the southern route - over Hawaii, the Marshall Islands, Guam ,etc. Had more to do with Nav-aids and divert options.

In the states, it seems to have much more to do with Nav-aids and traffic volume than what I believe you are referring to as "arcing".

I think some computers that show routing are programmed that way based on curvature of the earth rather than optimal planning/timing.

I'm by far an expert though, I only go up front when there's a problem - lol.

[400exstud]

It looks like an arc on a flat map but it is really a line on a globe. the arc gets more severe as you leave the equator and go towards the poles.

[Quad18star]

I just got a quote back from a local flight school about the cost of obtaining a commercial license with a float endorsement.

Using their 172s and graduating with about 150 -200 hrs , the grand total with taxes and all would run me around $37,308.00

Ground school for private license is $395 ( 45 hrs)
60 hrs for Private license @ $175/hr with tax is $11,130
Books and supplies is $904

Commercial ( additional after private license)

80 hrs ground school is$791
65hrs dual @$175 is $11 375
75 hrs solo @$150 is $12 712

Grand Total $37 308.00

And that's not including different type courses like Multi-IFR and stuff like that. To have everything required by a major airline ( not including a University degree) , the total would run me between $90 000 and $120 000 for training.

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by 400exstud
It looks like an arc on a flat map but it is really a line on a globe. the arc gets more severe as you leave the equator and go towards the poles.

You follow the curvature of the Earth .

When I flew from home to Cuba this past winter , we left here ( middle of Canada) , flew East , followed the coast , then cut back West in order to land in Cuba.

If I remember grade 9 science correctly ( which I probably don't) , it's a shorter distance to fly in an arc rather than straight line.

It's hard to explain in writting how it works .... I would need to explain it to you visually.

Take a look at a basketball . Imagine it's the earth and draw line horizontally right around where the equator is. Keep drawing a grid like you would see on a map .

Now because the earth is largest at the equator and smaller at the poles , the distance from a starting point , going all the way around the world , and returning to that starting point varies in distances at different locations ( ie. the equator is the largest part of the earth , so going from one point , all the way around and back to that same point is the longest distance ) . Standing at the north pole , you could walk around the earth in a matter of a few steps.

Now because the earth narrows the further away you get from the equator , their is less distance to travel if you arc to go from 1 point on the equator to another point on the equator .

Comprehend?? :p

Check this site for visuals. LOL
http://www.nationalatlas.gov/articles/mapping/a_projections.html