DS 540 V-Twin(aprilia dirt bike motor)

[Slip_Venom]

BRP is going to be releasing another new quad this month, lets just say I have some inside info that could be true.

The Rotax mill has like 70HP stock in the Super Motard dirt bike. They may just throw this into the DS450 frame.

Talk about the ultimate big bore quad ever.

[Slip_Venom]

check it out

[Slip_Venom]

and another

[Slip_Venom]

one more

[bwamos]

I beleive they origionally wanted to put in a twin cylinder, but competition rules don't allow for a 2-cylinder, so they came up with their current design in lieu of their origional vision for the motor.

[downeyballz]

not happining the 550 & 450 svx/ rvx motors are made by aprillia ot rotax. i higly doubt can-am / rotax would buy an engine from another company whe the alredy make the best powersports engines out there. it is possible that they design their own v-twin of that displacement. but i bet t would e based of the reegade/ outlander engines.

[Dale512]

Aprilla may build the engine at their plant, but Rotax did the design work on the engine and I bet they own rights to it as well.
Rotax also designed most of the engines in the BMW bikes including the new 650's, which is an evolution of the DS650 Engine, but Aprilla makes the engines at their plant for BMW, heck, Aprilla builds the whole bikes. That may change soon though since BMW bought Husqvarna. Aprilla and Rotax/BRP are very closely tied together.

[yamadjs08]

This would be oh so sick! Ever since I first seen this motor, and how compact it is, I have dreamed of putting it in a spare Cannondale frame I have and building a sick hybrid. But I recall someone stating that a crate 540 twin motor was somewhere in $3-4k. Someday... :(

[LTR450_#67]

Big deal LTR crate motors go for $3500+......They can still put one of them engines in a chassis and still sell them. Not everyone races......


Aaron

[bsmith106]

I read in atv action when the ds450 was released that Brp had one more new model due to be released fall 07. It also stated that the smaller renegade wouldnt be the only new V twin model this year. I take that as a hint since the ds 650 was discontinued. So their could be some truth to this rumor. Could be a very cool machine. If the ds 450 engine is as heavy as i think it is, a quad with that aprillia v twin would probably weigh only 5 to 10lbs more, as long as they dont try to beef it up too much. I am still dreaming of a two stroke variant that weighs 315lbs, maybe.

[bwamos]

Originally posted by bsmith106
If the ds 450 engine is as heavy as i think it is.

Sorry for derailing, but why do you think the 450 motor weighs so much? The quad weighs less (345 lbs) than the TRX450R (kick start) 350lbs, and it has EFI, E-Start, and a heavy lead-acid battery. If you were to remove the Battery & E-start motor you'd probably shave off another 10lbs. The battery alone on most sport quads are 7 lbs. TRX450ER's dry weight is 363lbs. (13lbs heavier than the kicker). So using that difference for a marker a kick start version of the DS (if you could bypass the battery requirement for the EFI) would potentially weigh 332 lbs. Only 8 lbs heavier than the Yamaha Blaster. That's pretty light. ;)

[Slip_Venom]

Originally posted by bwamos
Sorry for derailing, but why do you think the 450 motor weighs so much? The quad weighs less (345 lbs) than the TRX450R (kick start) 350lbs, and it has EFI, E-Start, and a heavy lead-acid battery. If you were to remove the Battery & E-start motor you'd probably shave off another 10lbs. The battery alone on most sport quads are 7 lbs. TRX450ER's dry weight is 363lbs. (13lbs heavier than the kicker). So using that difference for a marker a kick start version of the DS (if you could bypass the battery requirement for the EFI) would potentially weigh 332 lbs. Only 8 lbs heavier than the Yamaha Blaster. That's pretty light. ;)

If you think about it, it is suposed to be the lightest frame by 5lbs(of the lightest frame on the market), lightes a-arm setup by 3lbs (of the lightest a-arm setup), the lightest rear end by 9lbs(of the lightest rear end on the market). Then you take the YFZ which may have had the lightest rear unsprung weight untill now(ds450 -9lbs) and its dry weight is 350lbs. By the rules of math the dry weight of the ds450 should be 332lbs. Not 5lbs less than the YFZ but 18lbs less.

I dissagre with the the statement that a YFZ battery shaves 7lbs, the whole conversion alone only shaves 9lbs total.(Starter, added weight of the kickstarter)

In your defense I think that the dry weigh of the YFZ and TRX are bullcrap, and the DS is probably spot on. So all the weight they saved is true just that the dry weight of a YFZ is more like 360, and the Honda kickstart is more like 360 dry weight, and the Honda elctric start is more like 370 dry weight.

But if all the dry weights are true, ant the weight savings of the ds450 front end, rear end, and frame are true then the motor must be 7-10lbs heavier.

[swampfoxsc]

Originally posted by Slip_Venom
BRP is going to be releasing another new quad this month, lets just say I have some inside info that could be true.

The Rotax mill has like 70HP stock in the Super Motard dirt bike. They may just throw this into the DS450 frame.

Talk about the ultimate big bore quad ever.


You're wrong but that would be a nice quad!:D

[spanky101]

i sure hope im not the only one who hopes that there will be a kicker kit availible through the aftermarket or even CanAm. I think it could shave off a good amount of weight. Even if you could get away with a much smaller battery it would be great. Tryin to minimize electrical is definatly a huge plus to me, but i do understand it will be hard with all the efi stuff

[RaptorLover]

Originally posted by spanky101
Tryin to minimize electrical is definatly a huge plus to me, but i do understand it will be hard with all the efi stuff

Hard ? Thats why you have Bike Mecanics so that they can do all the hard and difficult stuff and you don't have to....:D

[yamadjs08]

Originally posted by LTR450_#67
Big deal LTR crate motors go for $3500+......They can still put one of them engines in a chassis and still sell them. Not everyone races......


Aaron
Um ...ok? :huh

Did you even read my post? I wasn't saying that it would be expensive for Can-Am, but expensive for me to buy the motor and put it in a Cannondale chassis...

[CannondaleRider]

I don't understand why everyone jumps to the idea that 2-cylinders arn't aloud because of competition rules.

Just because there is such a rule for some series' doesn't make it true for all races......

Best in the Desert and SCORE has no rules saying you cannot run a 2-cylinder quad. You can have a completely custom quad(IE: a Sundahl geometry XR650 hybrid) and still run in any quad class.

I've races a DS650 a few times in big desert races....Best In The Desert series races, to be exact. The DS650 is the perfect bike for the varying terrain that you encounter at these races.

Plus, the majority of big-bore quad riders these days don't race....so this would just take the DS650's place as a good dune/desert trail bike....like everyone thought the DS650 was ONLY good for. But, it would be a large advantage to us fast-paced desert racers also.

If Can-Am were to bring out an Aprilia 550(That particular engine, last I heard, was built as a 450, but a 550 was in the cards) big brother to the DS450.....I'd have a new desert bike, without the slightest hesitation. Not that I believe Can-Am would put THAT MOTOR in it, I would believe they would do something very similiar. Or even an original DS650 design, based more off of the DS450 engine, with Fuel Injection, and a few more of the 450's features. Either way, I'd buy one.

[OzLinc]

Originally posted by CannondaleRider
I don't understand why everyone jumps to the idea that 2-cylinders arn't aloud because of competition rules.

Just because there is such a rule for some series' doesn't make it true for all races......

Best in the Desert and SCORE has no rules saying you cannot run a 2-cylinder quad. You can have a completely custom quad(IE: a Sundahl geometry XR650 hybrid) and still run in any quad class.


Agreed; and as I remember the twin-cylinder rule, it states you can't ADD a multi-cylinder motor. I doesn't say anything about if it comes with one from the factory.

They just did it to stop road bike engine hybrids.

Linc

[RaptorLover]

Originally posted by swampfoxsc
You're wrong but that would be a nice quad!:D

Do you know what the real stock hp is ?

[bsmith106]

The reason why i suspect this engine is heavy is that there are no published specs advertising how light it is compared to its competition, that i have seen. You know that if it was lighter they would show it, just the same as all the other components , frame, suspensions etc. Dont get me wrong, I think the quad has alot of well thought out features, frame and steering knuckles etc, just not impressed with the engine. I just dont see anything groundbreaking with the design compared to the rest of the machine. There is alot that can still be done to reduce the number of parts and reduce size and weight but they do have to make it economically feasible. yfz450engine 83lbs, yz450f dirtbike 65lbs. I know quads have electric start and heavier trans gears but there is still some foof that doesnt need to be there. Husqvarna has a new 250cc 4t engine scheduled for 09 that tips the scales at 48.4lbs. Some will say that a couple lbs here and there isnt important but engineers are trying to save ounces. I do agree that the dry weights of all the current quads are optimistic. Hope we will be able to see some real world weights soon.

[bwamos]

Originally posted by Slip_Venom
I dissagre with the the statement that a YFZ battery shaves 7lbs, the whole conversion alone only shaves 9lbs total.(Starter, added weight of the kickstarter)

The battery weights:
Raptor 700 = 10.5 lbs.
TRX450ER = 6.93 lbs
LTR450R = 6.1 lbs
TRX300EX = 7.2 lbs
TRX400EX = 7.2 lbs
LTZ400 = 7.2 lbs

I couldnt find the specs for the YFZ battery, but I think 7lbs is a fair estimate for the weight of a battery.

I was simply using the published 450r vs 450er weight difference for my estimate.

Honestly we need to get all these quads on scales. I trust all manufacturers dry-weights about as far as I can throw one.. lol. (including BRP, Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Yamaha, etc.).

[RaptorLover]

Originally posted by bwamos
The battery weights:
Raptor 700 = 10.5 lbs.
TRX450ER = 6.93 lbs
LTR450R = 6.1 lbs
TRX300EX = 7.2 lbs
TRX400EX = 7.2 lbs
LTZ400 = 7.2 lbs

I couldnt find the specs for the YFZ battery, but I think 7lbs is a fair estimate for the weight of a battery.

I was simply using the published 450r vs 450er weight difference for my estimate.

Honestly we need to get all these quads on scales. I trust all manufacturers dry-weights about as far as I can throw one.. lol. (including BRP, Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Yamaha, etc.).

I'm with you , because i'f the manufacturers would lie of there weight , so will the others , and every make will say that theirs is lighter ..... I don't think they is talking bull .....

[08mxkfx]

almos everyone knows that yamaha lied about the weight of the yfz450. its isnt even close to 350lbs. People have weighted there bikes dry(no coolant, no oil, no gas, no brake fluid etc..) and get over 375.

[trx440]

The Aprilia 450 and 550's are both on the market right now.

Will Can-Am use it??? Who knows.

The engine would have to be redesigned for quad use in a production state though. The rebuild intervals are like 40 hours in the bikes. This engine is tuned on the edge and not over designed like the Jap engines. It would probably grenade in a quad application...........That being said..................

I'd buy one in a heartbeat. Stuffed into a 250R frame, it surely would be the greatest duner of all time.

[Claas900]

I wonder were canam got there frame idea from http://www.motorcycledaily.com/10february06_sxvrxv.htm

[swampfoxsc]

Originally posted by Claas900
I wonder were canam got there frame idea from


The article clearly states that the frame is tubular steel with some aluminum parts. The DS 450 frame is all aluminum and nothing like those motorcycles at all.

[LTR450_#67]

Originally posted by yamadjs08
Um ...ok? :huh

Did you even read my post? I wasn't saying that it would be expensive for Can-Am, but expensive for me to buy the motor and put it in a Cannondale chassis...

Sorry, I misread your post.

Aaron

[bwamos]

Originally posted by Claas900
I wonder were canam got there frame idea from http://www.motorcycledaily.com/10february06_sxvrxv.htm

Their sister company, perhaps?

Bombardier Learjet (http://www.bombardier.com/index.jsp?id=3_0&lang=en&file=/en/3_0/3_2/3_2_1/3_2_1.jsp)

[don_carallo]

..finally, will Can Am go out with a 550 V-Twin engine?

since they discontinued the DS 650 they have not a quen for the desert races, like the Dakar, where the DS 650 was the king, and KTM has a great machine for that like is the 525 (and the Outlaw with IRS)

i think that don't want to go out with this machine..i think that they HAVE to go out with this machine, if they don't want to see like KTM smoke the DS 450 in some races

[GPracer2500]

Here's a discussion about this from last summer: http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=240696