Aarms articulation question

[bear dad]

I have 05 predator 90 and getting ready to make some new Aarms & swingarm, this is my problem & question. in the stock form the aarms move 2-1/4 inch, with some calculating even if we extend the arms 5 inch with stock shock we only get 3-3/8 articulation, now i no with a aftermarket shock you can get more travel but how much is one question and the more the tire goes up the closer the frame gets to the ground. what do the pro mini quads have and for my son who just wants to jump all day how can I give him a quad that can handle big,big,big jumps. I have the shop to make what ever i want I just need to figure out how to do this. and does the angle of the shock have to do much with this or not. Im learning as I go so no info is to small for me.

[markvette]

most that want more travel go with the gull wing a-arms. the arm comes out from the frame then curves down towards the ground farther than stock, with these the quad sits higher to get more travel and you can use a longer shock. do a search in the mini quad section and you can probably find some pictures of the gull wing arms.

Mark

[bear dad]

markvette, I have seen gull wing a-arms, but only in the dual a-arms not the single like the predator has do you think i should make a dual setup or stay single and my boy weigh 144 pounds and 5-5 tall he's 10years old. at this size i was thinking of something like 400ex shocks, is this to much thanks

[dericsdad]

I found some good reasonible extended single a-arms from www.cycleimports.com. on our pred 90 12 inch shocks were needed to go with them. We also have their extended rear swing arm as well with a 12.5 inch rear shock.

[bear dad]

thats a great looking pred you have there, how wide can the a-arms go, isn't this dependent on the with of the rear axle. another thing are the rim & tires, I was reading about rims offset, and also was wanting to find out if i were to put bigger quad dual a-arms on, can i find the smaller 90 size rims to fit on the bigger spindle

[BradLoomis]

Here is the newest CVT mini that I am building.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p634b133270a59bc46a64802a8c53c572/e85607e3.jpg
It is 44" wide with Fox Floats on the front with 7 1/2" wheel travel.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p432b866f93da867d9093cb0afe1585b4/e856087f.jpg http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p5677c67268514f89c32449990a7dfb36/e85607ae.jpg
It has a 46" wheel base with an Axis rear shock on it. Carbon fiber steering stem, tie rods and silencer with misc. carbon fiber pieces elsewhere including a carbon fiber axle (not done yet). Descent wheel travel can be accomplished on these single arm bikes. Time and money are the biggest killers in doing this though. Total weight on the bike is right at 172 lbs.

[QuadJunkies]

You bringing your son out to the next WORCS race??
Ive gotta get shots of that bad boy!!! :devil:
Thats SAWEET Brad!:cool:

[bear dad]

I have to say brad that is one bad looking bike (quad) thats just makes me want to build one to. the kids say just buy the parts they just dont understand why I want to build it myself, Im just trying to understand the proper way quads work. pictures do alot for me, I can see what can be done and how others are doing it. Is there a chance to see your quad from the side and back. thanks

[BradLoomis]

Thanx for the comments! Tina, I am trying to finish up a shifter for Chase for the Straddleline race. I want him to be able to just go out and ride with everyone and have a good time before we get back into the grind of the racing season in a couple of months.

here are a couple more for you Bear Dad
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p210305ac19143f175581b2703ca24758/e852f06a.jpg http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p56e97b98965c71ae22aa71fcf34480e1/e852d233.jpg http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pe472f00102f7725d85f1daab8abcfbe7/e852d0ee.jpg http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p62a1d690398b5c964a967d7e411e1d3b/e852ef95.jpg http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p917d4012b420563b34cb5cf7ea68e61e/e852ef07.jpg http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p14a08bacc40ace88d5efc3628b763480/e852eecf.jpg

[wvspeedfreak]

Brad,that looks awesome!!

[QuadJunkies]

Having fun it whats its all about! Or should be..... or until you end up wrenching all wk end. LOL

See you in a couple weeks :)

[bear dad]

quick question brad, did you yous parts from other quads a-arms or just fab it all yourself and it looks like the front part of the a-arm bends down, & the back swoops up and forward for support, just trying to get it right. thanks. (ps my son wants see if you want to sell one of your bikes) thanks o ya one more thing i cant find where to get disc brakes for the front.

[BradLoomis]

I'll use parts from my lawn mower if it is the part that I need and it is what is needed.:D

The rod ends that connect the A-arm to the frame are a linkage piece from a 500 sportsman.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p08a70bc6ff03ea7578d99520c4e689e4/e9cb179d.jpg
They are almost the width that you see and come with black rubber boots. They are 10mm for the bolt that goes through the frame, so you don't need to drill the frame out like using 7/16" heims. The stud end that goes into the A-arm is actually 1/2" NF female threads for a bolt... so I just cut the head off of a 7/16" NF - 8 bolt and TIG'ed it into the heim so I could use my standard 7/16" tubing ends.

Both the 1 1/4" X .065" and 7/8" X .083" tubing is new 4130 that I bent to the angles needed. I like using larger diameter thinner wall 4130 because for the same weight it is stiffer and stronger than thicker smaller diameter tubing. Plus I just think it looks better being larger.

The spindle/king pin tube out on the end is just cut off of the old a-arms that these replaced. New spindle bushings are stock Polaris. The spindles are Polaris but I have modified the tie rod mount end of the arm to lengthen it out to keep my steering geometry correct. This setup has .015" left and .021" right bumpsteer throughout the shock travel and I designed it so that when compressed the bumpsteer pushes the tires out from each other so that the bike helps to straighten itself out after landing a big jump. Every mini I have ever seen has huge bumpsteer and the front of the tires always move towards each other which means on a big jump the bike tries to dart all over the place on landing.

The front disc brake assembly came from Maximum RPM. I don't know if I will keep them on it or not. I have stock front hubs powdercoated also, incase I ever wanted to remove them. They don't weigh much more than the stock hubs... but if the rider isn't going to use the front brakes at all , like most little kids, let alone as well as these will... then get rid of all of the front nose weight as you can. I re-machined the caliper mount to try and rotate as much weight backwards as possible. We'll just see once it is in the air how balanced it is. On the scales is one thing, on a race track is another.

I will get pictures of the jig I made to build my a-arms. \l/ That's it hanging on the wall.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p10ecc2183d7854ee8ee083b725b626ba/e9cb1c50.jpg
But if you are going to build some I suggest you do the same. The only true criticals is that the spindle/king pin tubes be in the exact same location to each other on the sides of the bike. The tubing to connect the frame mount to the spindles can go anywhere as long as it doesn't hit anything when going through its motion. Ride height is truly dictated by the camber angle you welded the king pin tube at. There really isn't much to it as long as you pay attention to the caster and camber. It just takes alot of time.

And tell your son that I am going to sell 3 of the 5 mini's that I have right now. I just don't know which two I am going to keep. The problem is I have so much time/money wrapped up in these because the next one was always better than the last one that they kinda become your babies.

Give ma a call if you want to talk about it. I'll help you anyway I can.

[dericsdad]

Brad what kind of pipe is that??? Looks like it might not have all the rough overlapped seems inside like most others do.

[Nichols Atvs]

I was wondering about that pipe all so is it new . or off something else

[Nichols Atvs]

You made the end out of carbanfiber to make it lighter on the pipe, nice move . Im going to call you the carb king. I see lots on this new quad did you make it or buy it.

[BradLoomis]

The pipe came from Jon Anderson from southern Cali. I believe they are the same as Trinity Racing. I like it better because it is a conventional 2 piece stamped design and doesn't have nearly as many cross pipe welds. It does flow differently than the Hetrick, WRH Racing and Koso pipes that I have. The silencer carbon fiber is the same silencer I build for the big 2 stroke silencers the Dave Moore Racing gets from me for his sand Banshee style racing pipes. Since I had to modify the whole pipe configuration anyway to get it to fit with my offset motor and rear shock assembly, I just added the carbon fiber silencer on because I could. It does help change the note of the quad and it does dissapate the heat out faster. As for all of the carbon fiber stuff, that is my company X~Stream Composites.

[Full Throttle00]

Brad, that thing is sweet.
AJ would like to be first in line for hand-me-downs when Chase out grows it.
:)

[Nichols Atvs]

Have you raced this new pipe yet ,and if so what do you like about it better than the others. Im in the market for a new pipe for the 70 and looking for some imput . Do you have a list of products you sell or web site, i used the one on the forum but doesnt work.

[BradLoomis]

The www.xstreamcomposites.com site is something I locked down awhile so that I atleast had it if I wanted it. My wife, boys and friends are building a MySpace (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=88535829) site for me now, I guess that is what everyone is doing now that is over the age of 9.:huh I can't do that. Check the pics area and it shows some of the stuff that I am doing.

Most of my stuff is more OEM type like Rath Racing, DMR and Mod Quad companies that I have been working with. I am trying to take the carbon fiber products from the "bling" factor that they are known for now, into the performance products that they really are. It is a long and tough process, but with racer/builders like Daryl Rath and Dave Moore using and testing my stuff, it is fun and exciting.

As for the pipe, this will bike hasen't hit the track yet for race testing. But I did use a digital vane anemometer to compare exhaust velocity and pulse flow patterns between the pipes on the same motor. The pulse was not as pronounced on this pipe and the Koso pipe as the Hetrick and WRH. Don't know if this is better or worse, but the Koso had less cross welds like this one so I attributed it to that. Then I narrowed it from the Koso in that it didn't have the bottom end power that this on did. So without a dyno chart, this is what I came to.

I have heard that Hetrick's and WRH racing have changed their pipes to this style of expansion chamber construction, but I don't know for sure.

[Nichols Atvs]

Thanks for the info cool axles they hold up well i assume.

[dirttrack86]

Hey Brad, could you please give me a call at 901-487-6512. Thanks, Mark