Whats the best Oil to put in my 400ex?

[bandit390]

What should I use??

[bmf400ex]

in my opinion Klotz Techniplate fully synthetic 20/50 is the best out there

[chavez]

its high dollar i think poeple pay 7$ or so a quart could be wrong i will not use anything else KLOTZ RULES 40w is also recomended by penzoil but i have never used it

[TravEX]

myself and alot of other guys on here use Mobil 1 15/50,,,do a search for more info,,,

[sharpshooter]

HP4 10w 40

mobile 1 15/50 seems to work great:)

[Sportrax10]

i also use mobil 1 15w 50

i like it:)

[RiPPiNiTuP7]

Klotz 20w50 :D

[OutlawEX]

Originally posted by RiPPiNiTuP7
Klotz 20w50 :D

Thats what i run also and let me tell you it is the best i ran so far and comes out so clean

[Mxbubs]

Mobil One will explode your clutch basket. How you ask? For starters, Mobil is only like 30% or so, I forget, synthetic. It has polymers, a type of molecule, you science majors need to help me out, anyway these polymers, or additives, or detergents get between the clutch plates and cause the plates to slip very little. You wont even fill the slipping, but when it slips, your clutch will heat up. Overtime, the entire metal will weaken, then one day just as you are warming up for a big weekend race, and all the girls are there watching, you are approaching an 80ft finish line table top, running great,................kaplooyee......Dead. Get the shovel. Your basket and inner and outer hub shatter like glass. You have to double your prozac dosage just to get out of bed in the morning. You dont ride for weeks. You have to save 950$ to buy a full Hinson setup. Thats when you realize, gee, I should have listened to my mechanic, and ran FULLY SYNTHETIC STRAIGHT 40W ROYAL PURPLE.:D

Originally posted by bmf400ex
in my opinion Klotz Techniplate fully synthetic 20/50 is the best out there

on there site i only see 15w50. where is 20w50?

[Scott400EX]

I have been using Maxima Maximum4 Premium and not probs here!!!

[Colby@C&DRacing]

We run AMSOIL in all our bikes the gearcase stuff is great it really keep the heat down. We also use the 50:1 synthetic premix it works really well. just my two cents but you really should run a synthetic that is made for motorcycle engines.

[OutlawEX]

Originally posted by QuadMX18


on there site i only see 15w50. where is 20w50?

MY shop carries the klotz 20/50 so they know i use it so they get it for me or whom ever,but when it gets colder out i will be using 10w-40 or so

[86atc250r]

Originally posted by Mxbubs
Mobil One will explode your clutch basket. How you ask? For starters, Mobil is only like 30% or so, I forget, synthetic. It has polymers, a type of molecule, you science majors need to help me out, anyway these polymers, or additives, or detergents get between the clutch plates and cause the plates to slip very little. You wont even fill the slipping, but when it slips, your clutch will heat up. Overtime, the entire metal will weaken, then one day just as you are warming up for a big weekend race, and all the girls are there watching, you are approaching an 80ft finish line table top, running great,................kaplooyee......Dead. Get the shovel. Your basket and inner and outer hub shatter like glass. You have to double your prozac dosage just to get out of bed in the morning. You dont ride for weeks. You have to save 950$ to buy a full Hinson setup. Thats when you realize, gee, I should have listened to my mechanic, and ran FULLY SYNTHETIC STRAIGHT 40W ROYAL PURPLE.:D

That is the most hilarious (ridiculous?) thing I've heard in a good long while.

I suppose you had a metallurgist study the basket, clutch plates, oil and track down the chain of events? Or - did you just make some wild assumptions based on what someone told you about a particular type of oil?

Stock clutch baskets in 400EX's have a problem with exploding under race conditions if not replaced every so often. This is caused by microscopic stress cracks formed from shock absorbed over time by the clutch from shifts, landings, etc. - not mysterious polymers getting between your clutch plates and causing slippage you can't feel. This problem has been noted by several top engine builders for a long time, regardless of oil type or brand used. I've seen recommendations of replacing them once a season.

FWIW, all petroleum oils are composed of "polymers" - both synthetic and conventional.

Mobil 1 is not 30% synthetic, it's made from a blend of three 100% synthetic base stocks - I can go into more detail if you like.

[Dave400ex]

I run Maxima Maxum4 also which is Petroleum Blend. 20w50.

Originally posted by 86atc250r


That is the most hilarious (ridiculous?) thing I've heard in a good long while.

I suppose you had a metallurgist study the basket, clutch plates, oil and track down the chain of events? Or - did you just make some wild assumptions based on what someone told you about a particular type of oil?

Stock clutch baskets in 400EX's have a problem with exploding under race conditions if not replaced every so often. This is caused by microscopic stress cracks formed from shock absorbed over time by the clutch from shifts, landings, etc. - not mysterious polymers getting between your clutch plates and causing slippage you can't feel. This problem has been noted by several top engine builders for a long time, regardless of oil type or brand used. I've seen recommendations of replacing them once a season.

FWIW, all petroleum oils are composed of "polymers" - both synthetic and conventional.

Mobil 1 is not 30% synthetic, it's made from a blend of three 100% synthetic base stocks - I can go into more detail if you like.



Do you run Mobil 1 15w50 because that is what i have been running and hope its ok bc i dunno who to believe

[86atc250r]

Yes, I've been racing my 400EX for almost 3 years now on Mobil1 15w50 - Both flat track and 2 hour cross country races

[Taco]

Originally posted by 86atc250r
Yes, I've been racing my 400EX for almost 3 years now on Mobil1 15w50 - Both flat track and 2 hour cross country races
I was hoping you would chime in on this post.:D One thing i cant stand is biased information.

[Sparks425Ex]

Mobil 1 15w50!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or just Honda Oil. It works great too.

[400exNH]

Valvoline has new oil out. Specifically designed for ATV's, might want to try that.


http://www.valvoline.com/atv/index.asp

Originally posted by 400exNH
Valvoline has new oil out. Specifically designed for ATV's, might want to try that.


http://www.valvoline.com/atv/index.asp


its not a full synthetic. Its a blend

[QuadTrix6]

86atc250r well said i also use mobil 1 15w-50 (red cap)

[Mxbubs]

"FWIW, all petroleum oils are composed of "polymers" - both synthetic and conventional" End Quote.


Not all synthetics have the polymers I am talking about. Call Mobil 1 and I BET you my bike they warn you not to run their synthetic oil in a wet clutch setup.

Then call Royal Purple.

I know what Im talking about, would you like me to go into detail?:D

[Dave400ex]

A lot of Engine Builders say not to run Synthetic Oil. TC told me not to, to just get a good Petroleum Blend in 20w50 and that is also what Duncan runs in all of their Four Strokes.

[bakerboyz]

What is clutch slipping anyway? How do you know if your clutch is slipping?
Is it like an auto trans without trans fluid?

I read alot about how clutch slippage is caused by friction modifiers used in auto motor oils. Mainly in the 10W30 energy conserving oils.

I was told that Shell rotella 15W40 is a good quality Heavy duty oil that is made to last longer that regular oils. I recently put this in my 250ex. So far I cannot tell the difference.

I used only GN4 prior to this.

[zephead400ex]

I have been using Mobil 1 15w/50 and everything is working great...as far as I know. I have only had my 400 since June and have changed the oil 3 times and used Mobil 1 15w/50 every time. There are more threads about this topic, everyone suggested Mobil 1 so that is what I went with and will continue to use b/c I dont like changing oils...

Are their advantages/disadvantages about changing the type or brand of oil?

l8ter

[trailburner]

HP-4 10-W40

[BrianWrightR6]

I use Maxima 20/50. Seems to be good stuff.

[86atc250r]

I know what Im talking about, would you like me to go into detail?

Yes, I would actually.

[upstate rider]

Originally posted by bmf400ex
fully synthetic Just heard if you use synthetic oils and don't run your engine for peroids time ( letting it sit idle ) the oil will drain off from valves etc. and can rust inside your motor because the synthetic oils have no waxes in them to protect and coat all the parts inside. This happened to a friend of mine that used to use only synthetic oil and thats what happened to him and thats what the mechanic told him why his valves end up rusting along with other parts inside his motor.

[86atc250r]

That is a myth (kind of - read on...).

There should not be engine oil on your valves in the first place. If his valves, etc, rusted he had other more serious problems.

If you are going to store any engine for long periods of time, it's not a bad idea to change the oil (which cleans out any corrosive acids, etc in the old oil), and use a fogging oil in the cylinder - regardless if you use synthetic or conventional oils.

This old myth likely started with first generation synthetics that were based on glycol and really only used in racing applications. Current synthetics have come a long ways from that. Some two stroke synthetics are still based on glycol.

Glycol based synthetics are also not able to be blended with conventional oils. All modern synthetics blend fine with conventional oils, you just lose some of the benefits of the synthetic by diluting it.

Many synthetics have actually been shown to have better rust and corrosion protection than their conventional counterparts.

[ChadEXer]

I asked TC this very same question. He told me to run 20w-50 non synthetic,,he said Honda, maxima, Klotz, any of those are good oils,,,he said you DO NOT want to run synthetic in a 400EX!!!

[knighttime]

Originally posted by ChadEXer
I asked TC this very same question. He told me to run 20w-50 non synthetic,,he said Honda, maxima, Klotz, any of those are good oils,,,he said you DO NOT want to run synthetic in a 400EX!!!

I dont give a flyin flunk what tc says, that is complete and 100% total bullfreakinsh1tt. A good synthetic motorcycle oil is the best thing u can put in the 400ex or any other quad.

[86atc250r]

TC also recommends Lectrons.

[Taco]

Originally posted by 86atc250r
TC also recommends Lectrons.
LMAO:blah

Originally posted by 86atc250r
TC also recommends Lectrons.

:eek:---> DOH

Doesn't TC also recommend ya change the oil after every ride you go on,,that's rediculious I think...

PS..I'm a full synthetic man myself,,mobil and maxima have been my choices..

[cdalejef]

Cannondale said when they were doing their endurace dyno testing, that the motors showed almost no signs of wear using Redline oil. The other oils held up good but you could still see the hone marks in the motors running the Redline oil.

[86atc250r]

Redline is an excellent group 5 synthetic, as are many others out there that people are using.

One of the main advantages Mobil1 15w50 has is how easy to obtain it is.

[ChadEXer]

Originally posted by knighttime


I dont give a flyin flunk what tc says, that is complete and 100% total bullfreakinsh1tt. A good synthetic motorcycle oil is the best thing u can put in the 400ex or any other quad.
OK knighttime, ill forget everything that one of the most respected builders out there says to do just because some idiot little kid knows the best thing in the world for a 400EX:rolleyes:
Im sure TC has seen the inside of more motors than anybody else so ill stick with him.

Rico, TC says that I only need to change the oil when it starts blackening, could be 10 rides, could be 1 ride, a big bore motor this size gets pretty hot and we all know what heat does to oil..

As far as the Lectrons go, I agree there not the best carb out there, I had he!! getting mine running right, but after talking to TC on the phone and doing a few runs I had it running pretty damned good, even with the blown head gasket!! If you dont know much about carbs and dont like messing with them then a lectron isnt for you, if you dont mind working on the carb and like the fact that the lectron is one of the easiest carbs to change jettings on the market then you wont mind it...personally I could care less to mess with the carb so i will be going to a 41MM FCR on alcohol,,I had earlier posted a thread saying I hated my Lectron but after talking to Tom and figuring out I was turning the needle the wrong way I figured out how to get it right.. And continuously turning the needle the wrong way is what caused a head gasket to blow!!

[knighttime]

Originally posted by 86atc250r
TC also recommends Lectrons.

lmfao, yep and non-synthetic oil as well. roflmfao

[JabberJaw]

All I can tell you is DO NOT USE CRISCO, its hard as heck to get it in the motor, and it plugs up the filter. I had to switch to Mazola.

[knighttime]

snapple apple iced tea works well. :D

[400exNH]

Is true that it's bad to change from synthetic to non-synthetic oil? Can anyone please explain the reason behind this?

[86atc250r]

No, you can switch back and forth as often as you like - heck if you want you can even mix the two, modern conventionals and synthetics are fully compatable.

[Taco]

Originally posted by ChadEXer

OK knighttime, ill forget everything that one of the most respected builders out there says to do just because some idiot little kid knows the best thing in the world for a 400EX:rolleyes:
Im sure TC has seen the inside of more motors than anybody else so ill stick with him.

Rico, TC says that I only need to change the oil when it starts blackening, could be 10 rides, could be 1 ride, a big bore motor this size gets pretty hot and we all know what heat does to oil..

As far as the Lectrons go, I agree there not the best carb out there, I had he!! getting mine running right, but after talking to TC on the phone and doing a few runs I had it running pretty damned good, even with the blown head gasket!! If you dont know much about carbs and dont like messing with them then a lectron isnt for you, if you dont mind working on the carb and like the fact that the lectron is one of the easiest carbs to change jettings on the market then you wont mind it...personally I could care less to mess with the carb so i will be going to a 41MM FCR on alcohol,,I had earlier posted a thread saying I hated my Lectron but after talking to Tom and figuring out I was turning the needle the wrong way I figured out how to get it right.. And continuously turning the needle the wrong way is what caused a head gasket to blow!!

Can you say repeat business;)

[Bean]

golden spectro full syntheic for me tranny

and amsoil full synthetic for me gas

thast all i run

[Dave400ex]

TC told me the same thing Chad. Why don`t you Guys call and talk to him. Duncan doesn`t use Synthetic in their Motors either. I really think nobody on here knows Motors better then those 2 do. Synthetic is fine, but they don`t like it.

Anyone know if it matters if you keep switching oil weights? I use 15w50 but im not sure if that is to thick for the winter. What do you guys think?

[400MXer]

I use Kendall GT1 strait 40w. stuff's pretty good. Bud fischer likes the stuff, so i said, what the He!!. and it's cheap.

[86atc250r]

Warriorman -

I've found all too many times that relying on what someone "tells" you is not always the best thing to do, especially when they won't/can't explain with technical data the reason for their position. Just because someone is a good engine builder doesn't make them a lubrication expert. You also never know what axe someone has to grind or what pre-conceived notions they may have, especially the old timers.

A lot of these folks are very set in their ways. Just like TC and the Lectrons. Sure he may know them inside and out & make a bike run like a raped ape with one, but almost everyone I've talked to, raced with, etc that has had one, ended up hating it after they had it on their bike/quad for a while. It may have been right when TC sent it out the door, but later down the road gave them nightmares.

There's a reason *every* factory ultra high performance 4 stroke on the market uses the Keihin FCR carb and none use Lectron.

Some of these folks may have had bad experiences with 1st gen synthetics and now have a bad taste in their mouth and stick with what they know.

I prefer to listen to the opinions of people like this, but put more weight on my own research, testing, and experience.

Personally, I've found that the 400EX will break down a conventional oil in no time flat if you ride it hard. Heavier weights and straight weights fare better but not as well as synthetic.

Synthetic was developed just for the harsh conditions like what a 400EX engine puts on an oil. Very high oil temps, high RPMs, high shear loads are all things synthetics excel at handling.

In my own testing this has also proved true. 3 years now my race bike has run on nothing but Mobil1 15w50 and has experienced no problems whatsoever. I've re-ringed it once, I've changed cams twice (not because of wear, but because I was changing the configuration), the cams & rockers were in perfect condition every time.

This engine develops nearly 40HP at the rear tires and has been rock solid reliable. The Mobil1 oil holds up better with this modified engine than 20w50 conventional did in the stock engine.

Mobil1 15w50 has no VI improver, this means it's as stable as the straight weight oil that some engine builders recommend with the advantages of a split weight oil.

It's cold pumpability is better than many 5w30's which means you can run it in the dead of winter without worry.

It's flash point is higher than most any other oil out there, which means it will handle the high oil temps of a high RPM air cooled engine with ease.

Here's one (http://www.eric-gorr.com/techarticles/mototech_june_1999.htm) of many articles on the subject, this one's from Rich Rohrich - if you don't know who he is, do a little research, the guy is EXTREMELY sharp...

gabe you need to copy these oil post so you don't have to type them out every few months. I've read more lengthy post by you regarding what oil to use and there always very informative,,if ya copy them you can save some typing,,just repost the same info everytime..:D

[Taco]

Originally posted by Rico
gabe you need to copy these oil post so you don't have to type them out every few months. I've read more lengthy post by you regarding what oil to use and there always very informative,,if ya copy them you can save some typing,,just repost the same info everytime..:D

I am starting to think he likes these heated debates:D

[knighttime]

awesome post dude, your info is right on. Its too bad we have some un-educated members who do nothing but quote half-baked engine builders just to justify the overpriced work they had done. (hint ~ 505ex, lmfao :D )

[ChadEXer]

Gabe,
I am very glad that we have people like you on these forums! I can tell that you are very educated and you know what you are talking about(a lot more than most of us for sure!!) However I have to agree with Warriorman, Duncan and TC are 2 of the best in the business and they both agree that synthetics are not good for a 400EX, there are other greats in the business that think its good to run synthetic, i guess people could argue about this for days but the fact is, there is no "data" that proves either way is right!! So until then I will use what the guy who has built my motor has told me to run!! The same guy that has been dealing with motors when you and me were still poopin in our britches!!

Knighttime, im so glad we have people like you on this forum too, What would we do without the little kids who always try to start flames all the time,,it just might get boring around here without you!!

[knighttime]

please for all of us

p.s. how is the tc racing 505 engine running, lmfao

[ChadEXer]

And about the Lectrons
Originally posted by StevenGates45
Yeah just change the needle & adjust left or right to richen & lean & thats all there is to it! I dont see how many ppl find it so difficult. I love lectrons, theyre the only aftermarket carb i would spend my money on!


__________________

This is the 3rd person Ive heard feedback from that actually "has" a lectron carb(other than all these people who have "heard" or "know people",,,,all 3 of them seem to love the Lectron carbs!! Like I said there is adjusting involved with Lectrons, but as long as you know how to use a flat head screwdriver and a pair of pliars, they are the easiest carb on the market to jet(not to mention the cheapest)!!!!!

[Mxbubs]

I know my oil, I drink a pint for breakfast every morning, and Im telling you guys, Royal Purple fully syn. is the breakfast of champions!:macho

Originally posted by 86atc250r
It's cold pumpability is better than many 5w30's which means you can run it in the dead of winter without worry.

It's flash point is higher than most any other oil out there, which means it will handle the high oil temps of a high RPM air cooled engine with ease.


What temperatures do you think i can run my oil through? Like highest and coldest temp outside. Its almost winter with snow and all and i would like to run the oil year round. Think thats possible? Any precautions i should take? Thanks for your help

[Evan]

I am not the smartest guy on here but common sense should be worth a little here. You dont put car shocks on 400EXs do ya? So you shouldnt run car oil in a 400EX. Ive tried it and it will make your clutch slip worse than anything. If it aint designed for a ATV I dont run it.

Chad-sounds like knighttime is jealous of your 505 ;)

[Taco]

Originally posted by X-Rider
I am not the smartest guy on here but common sense should be worth a little here. You dont put car shocks on 400EXs do ya? So you shouldnt run car oil in a 400EX. Ive tried it and it will make your clutch slip worse than anything. If it aint designed for a ATV I dont run it.

Chad-sounds like knighttime is jealous of your 505 ;)

I have been running the Mobil1 15W50 for well over a year now and have yet to experience the clutch slip you are referring to. Exactly what oil did you try? Brand ? weight?
OH and by the way knighttime is not a lil 14yo kid FYI he just like having some fun with you all.

OH yea what radiator fluid do you use in your 250r?

[Dave400ex]

Well I may have to call and see if I can get some Technical answers why he doesn`t suggest Synthetic. I really have no idea, I just ran what he told me to. It seems to be working fine. I may have to switch to a Maxima Synthetic.

Rico which Maxima Oil did you use?

[knighttime]

Originally posted by X-Rider
I am not the smartest guy on here but common sense should be worth a little here. You dont put car shocks on 400EXs do ya? So you shouldnt run car oil in a 400EX. Ive tried it and it will make your clutch slip worse than anything. If it aint designed for a ATV I dont run it.

Chad-sounds like knighttime is jealous of your 505 ;)

LMFAO, i dont think so, of all the 400ex engine choices out there, the 505 would be probably the last one I'd choose, slapnuts. Also who was saying to put automotive oil in a quad? Please explain :huh

[Doibugu2]

Originally posted by ChadEXer
Gabe,
I am very glad that we have people like you on these forums! I can tell that you are very educated and you know what you are talking about(a lot more than most of us for sure!!) However I have to agree with Warriorman, Duncan and TC are 2 of the best in the business and they both agree that synthetics are not good for a 400EX, there are other greats in the business that think its good to run synthetic, i guess people could argue about this for days but the fact is, there is no "data" that proves either way is right!! So until then I will use what the guy who has built my motor has told me to run!! The same guy that has been dealing with motors when you and me were still poopin in our britches!!



Here's my 2 cents. How often do you think TC and Duncan work on an engine that has been beat to pieces after years of racing. Don't you think they work on mostly brand new engines? They obviously have worked on a ton of engines, but after someone blows it, do you think they go in and try and find out why? Do you think TC has any hard evidence as to why not to run a new product?

[ChadEXer]

Originally posted by Doibugu2


Here's my 2 cents. How often do you think TC and Duncan work on an engine that has been beat to pieces after years of racing. Don't you think they work on mostly brand new engines? They obviously have worked on a ton of engines, but after someone blows it, do you think they go in and try and find out why? Do you think TC has any hard evidence as to why not to run a new product?
My motor was almost 3 years old when i sent it to TC to rebuild,,,what makes you think they only work on new motors??? And yes when a motor "blows" im sure they try to find out why,,,thats how the good builders get good, trial and error!! Im sure TC doesnt want to run a "new" product because he sticks to the motto "stick with what works" just like everyone should!! If it works, why replace it??

X-Rider, thanks and i agree, knighttime clearly has a problem, could be jealousy, I dont know!!

[Doibugu2]

No wonder why it took a year to get it from him. TC was spending the last year analyzing a blown motor.

J/k


I still believe synthetics are ok. Chad there are how many guys on this board running synthetics for several years with no problems. How much more evidence do you need?

[86atc250r]

Yeah, and all these guys engines are running and your is....>>???

Sorry had to take a jab :D

[ChadEXer]

I never said synthetic wasnt OK!! There are how many guys that have been running conventional oil on these forums with no problems??? The point is neither oil has been proven better, and conventional oil has been working for years and years,,,why change???

[86atc250r]

Many people run conventional and don't realize it's a problem. How many 400EXs are out there blowing smoke - quite a few. One of the biggest causes is oil breakdown.

Heck, mine did the same thing when it was new, smoke on decel even before I considered it broken-in. After some testing of various oils and research I found that Synthetic Mobil1 solved my problem, no more smoke.

Don't know about you, but if the oils breaking down to the point of blowing by on a new engine, doesn't sound like it's doing a good job to me. If you allow it to continue, gradual damage is sure to follow.

Personally I don't care what oil you choose to use or who you listen to - it just irritates me to no end when people start passing bad info.

[ChadEXer]

Whos passing bad info??? By telling everyone that 2(probabaly quite a few more) of the top engine builders recomend not running synthetic??? im sure they have done testing of their own. What makes your "testing" and "research" better than theirs??? like I said, until someone shows proof of which is the best ill stick to whats known,,,saying my quad smokes less with sythetic isnt proof by any means! Dont think Im flaming you here Gabe, I understand that you strongly believe in your "testing" and it makes since that you get offensive with what you highly believe in, im sure TC or Duncan would do the same thing if you called them and told them what they believe is wrong too!!

[86atc250r]

My resaoning is simple.

TC and Duncan won't tell you any good reason they don't like synthetic other than old myths that have been disproven time and time again.

I believe I have posted fairly adequate data to show that I've done my homework & give you a good start on making an *educated* decision for yourself. IF you do not believe so, I can certainly give you more involved references to look into, but somehow I think you're probably not interested in learning for yourself or putting forth more effort than what it takes to get a simple opinion from someone on the other end of a phone...

So, as I said before, listen to who you like, run what you want. Just don't pass data as though you know what you are talking about if you haven't done your homework or I will call you on it.

If you can't tell the difference between an engine that smokes and one that does not when two oils are compared, you've got a lot to learn. If you can't tell the difference between an oil that's broken down and one that's not (or if you have not even bothered to try testing various oils), you certainly do not need to be passing advise on what to run to others.

There's plenty of proof out there that synthetics are fine and *do* substantially outperform conventionals - if you think there is not, you are showing your ignorance. Synthetics aren't new, they aren't "unknown" or "unproven". Wake up, look around, think for yourself.

[knighttime]

Originally posted by 86atc250r
So, as I said before, listen to who you like, run what you want. Just don't pass data as though you know what you are talking about if you haven't done your homework or I will call you on it.

I totally agree. Chad if u wanna help in any way whatsoever, we want the knowledge to come from real world testing and experiences, we dont wanna hear some slapnuts recitin "so-called facts" from an overrated engine builder. :eek: I think we've heard enuff of TC this and TC that. Let this TC speak for himself. I'm sure he doesnt want u doing this to begin with. I mean it cant be helping his business with the fact that it took over half a year to build your engine, and it blew the first day, lmfao.

[beerock]

HOLD THE BOAT!!!!

gabe I read your posts and they are well informed BUT there is a slight hole in your "facts"

Illl clue you in in a second.....

first, I bet I know why alot of 400ex motors are smoking when they put new bore kits in......

It is because they are putting synthetic in there bikes!!!!!!!!!

The reason alot of people have bad luck with synthetics is because of the way they go about using it.

Using a synthetic in a fresh engine is WRONG.

you need to run a dino based oil in EVERY 4 stroke in order to break it in properly.

I'm sure there are soem of you that broke your motors in with synthetic and all i can say is your lucky it broke in right.

YES there is more friction involved in a dino based oil, BUT that friction allows the rings/cylinder to break in correctly.

Synthetic oils ARE NOT THE right oil to use while breaking in a motor.(I bet after a couple people read my post theyll know why there motors are/were smoking)

If you use a synthetic oil on a new bore the rings/cylinder WILL NOT break in properly because there is NOT ENOUGH friction. this causes the rings/cylinder to not get there "groove" and results in blow by and a pissed off rider.- ]to fix this you need to rering and hone cylinder and use dino based oil.........

gabe, I respect your posts, but most motors that are smoking arent smoking because the dino based oil broke down, more then likely it was a synthetic that was used during break in and thats why its smoking.

I will find the link to a REALLY informative topic about motor oil. The one guy who is talking in the topic works for honda r&d.

If I dont find the link in short, they said the best way to break in a motor is to run dino based oil FOR BREAK IN PERIOD and then after the motor is broken in (usualy a tank of gas) switch to a synthetic oil......This is the best way to go......

to put it short, once the motor is broken in properly(with dino based oil) switching to a synthetic will make the motor last ALOT longer......

This is exactly how I broke in my 380+ HP 351w that I built myself for my boat. once the motor was broken in (with dino based oil)and I switched to synthetic (mobil one) I picked up 150 rpm on the gaffrig race tach.

im gonna go find the link.......

Originally posted by beerock



first, I bet I know why alot of 400ex motors are smoking when they put new bore kits in......

It is because they are putting synthetic in there bikes!!!!!!!!!

The reason alot of people have bad luck with synthetics is because of the way they go about using it.

Using a synthetic in a fresh engine is WRONG.

you need to run a dino based oil in EVERY 4 stroke in order to break it in properly.

I'm sure there are soem of you that broke your motors in with synthetic and all i can say is your lucky it broke in right.

YES there is more friction involved in a dino based oil, BUT that friction allows the rings/cylinder to break in correctly.

Synthetic oils ARE NOT THE right oil to use while breaking in a motor.(I bet after a couple people read my post theyll know why there motors are/were smoking)

If you use a synthetic oil on a new bore the rings/cylinder WILL NOT break in properly because there is NOT ENOUGH friction. this causes the rings/cylinder to not get there "groove" and results in blow by and a pissed off rider.- ]to fix this you need to rering and hone cylinder and use dino based oil.........



well no chit sherlock,,,I think most of know this I don't think gabe ever spcified to use synthetic on break in. As a matter of fact when I had my bore kit installed I emailed gabe and asked him what to use and he specifically told me to use conventinal oil on break in then go to sythetic. I'm no mike the mechanic or motor head,,but arguin with gabe is like pissin in the wind...good luck and put on a rain coat cuz your gonna get soaked..:blah

[knighttime]

first of all u dont own a fourstroke, so your just posting things u have heard, let these people speak for themselves. Also u r wrong about the break-in with synthetic. I broke mine in with synthetic and it didnt and has not ever smoked. The tolerances with the engine parts are much better now than in the past, so there is little worry of the synthetic working its way past the rings and causing smoke, even on break-in. Plus as a side note, all new corvette engines come stock with synthetic, no convential goes into them at the factory. Today's synthetics mixed with a good modern engines outperform convential oil in ALL areas. The only thing u wouldnt want to use synthetic in is an old car or tractor cause the synthetic in that case only will slide right past the rings and the thing will smoke like cheech and chong on april 20th.

[beerock]

knight time, like I said in my earlier post your lucky it broke in right using synthetic

I do own a fourstroke too knight time, I guess you didnt read that I built a 351w?

heres the link I was talkin about.

they mostly talk about how 10w-40 is bad news unless its synthetic Im moody blu......

http://www.donzi.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002281;p=2


and im pretty sure ALL engines are broken in with dino oil at the factory.synthetic oils are awesome but one thing they are not good for is break in.

[beerock]

Originally posted by Rico


well no chit sherlock,,,I think most of know this I don't think gabe ever spcified to use synthetic on break in. As a matter of fact when I had my bore kit installed I emailed gabe and asked him what to use and he specifically told me to use conventinal oil on break in then go to sythetic. I'm no mike the mechanic or motor head,,but arguin with gabe is like pissin in the wind...good luck and put on a rain coat cuz your gonna get soaked..:blah

rico, all I did was fill in what he didnt say.....about breaking in a motor... that was the hole I was refering to.

I'm sure gabe will agree.

[knighttime]

Originally posted by beerock
and im pretty sure ALL engines are broken in with dino oil at the factory.

Ahh berok, they arent, take the Corvette for example.

[beerock]

Originally posted by knighttime


Ahh berok, they arent, take the Corvette for example.

whats so different about the corvette motor?

the lt4?

I serioulsy doubt the motor is broken in with synthetic.
in the industry synthetic is a no no for break in.

unless you have some sort of proof I cant believe it.

[knighttime]

Originally posted by beerock


whats so different about the corvette motor?

the lt4?

I serioulsy doubt the motor is broken in with synthetic.
in the industry synthetic is a no no for break in.

unless you have some sort of proof I cant believe it.

I dont care if u believe it or not, it is true though, but u r entitled to believe the contrary if it makes your world a better place, lmfao.

[beerock]

Originally posted by knighttime


I dont care if u believe it or not, it is true though, but u r entitled to believe the contrary if it makes your world a better place, lmfao.

I'm not ruling it out, but seriously knighttime. Why would they break in a motor with a synthetic oil when chevy knows damn well synthetics wont break in properly all the time.

Do you think chevy would take that sort of risk breaking in a motor with synthetics if only some would break in properly.

just like how you broke your motor in with synthetic.
you got lucky.
I really dont think chevy would take a risk like that.

[knighttime]

your opinion really means nothing in the discussion, I'm stating facts not opinions. Chevy does not want the corvette to ever c convential oil in its lifetime - even break-in. Get in the modern times beerook. U disputing the fact that they use synthetic is just makin u look dumb, or dumber is more fitting maybe if u keep this discussion going.

[400exNH]

The truth is everyone has his or her opinion about which oil is better or worse sort of like which pipe gives the most power and/or sounds better.

Run whatever oil makes you feel warm and cozy, but until someone has some hard facts, enough is enough...

And when I say hard facts I would like to see datasheets testing different oils in different quad engines with extended hours of testing. The testing should include emissions, HP gains, losses, and clutch operation. Then I would like to see pictures of the inside of each of the engines to determine amounts of wear, etc..

So until someone has something...

[beerock]

Originally posted by knighttime
your opinion really means nothing in the discussion, I'm stating facts not opinions. Chevy does not want the corvette to ever c convential oil in its lifetime - even break-in. Get in the modern times beerook. U disputing the fact that they use synthetic is just makin u look dumb, or dumber is more fitting maybe if u keep this discussion going.

I dont doubt they use synthetic in the motor.

I dispute that they use synthetic in the break in....

get with the modern times?
as far as I know new motors are still broken in with dino based oil. Unless they use some special synthetic which is made for break in only(more friction for break in).- but then that would defeat the purpose of a synthetic.

who are you to say its making me look dumb?

your the one that admitted to breaking in your motor with synthetic. THAT IS DUMB.

[beerock]

Originally posted by 400exNH
The truth is everyone has his or her opinion about which oil is better or worse sort of like which pipe gives the most power and/or sounds better.

Run whatever oil makes you feel warm and cozy, but until someone has some hard facts, enough is enough...

And when I say hard facts I would like to see datasheets testing different oils in different quad engines with extended hours of testing. The testing should include emissions, HP gains, losses, and clutch operation. Then I would like to see pictures of the inside of each of the engines to determine amounts of wear, etc..

So until someone has something...


it is known throughout the world that dino based should be used for breaking in a new motor NOT synthetic..

[Texan32]

i don't want to step on toes here, but i JUST got off the phone with Chevrolet Customer Service and a local Chevy dealer cust. service. The Corvette COMES FROM THE FACTORY WITH MOBILE 1 5w/30. This is hear-say, but from what i have ALWAYS been told is that when you break in a new motor, its best NOT to use synthetic. Apparently Chevy has done something special with the Vette to where it doesn't want anything but a synthetic oil. But don't forget, the vette has always been one of the leaders in new and improving technilogy!!!!

P.S. Mobile 1 15w/50 for me with NO problems!

[knighttime]

I'll bet u $50.00 that Chevrolet puts synthetic oil in the new corvettes at the factory. Put your money where your mouth is or stfu.

By the way, Chevy uses Mobil 1 synthetic. :rolleyes:

[Texan32]

ok kids, either you calm down, or i'm gonna make you kiss and then send you to your rooms!!!!!

[knighttime]

Originally posted by beerock


I dont doubt they use synthetic in the motor.

I dispute that they use synthetic in the break in....



all i have to say then is take my bet slapnuts, lmfao :D

[beerock]

Originally posted by Texan32
i don't want to step on toes here, but i JUST got off the phone with Chevrolet Customer Service and a local Chevy dealer cust. service. The Corvette COMES FROM THE FACTORY WITH MOBILE 1 5w/30. This is hear-say, but from what i have ALWAYS been told is that when you break in a new motor, its best NOT to use synthetic. Apparently Chevy has done something special with the Vette to where it doesn't want anything but a synthetic oil. But don't forget, the vette has always been one of the leaders in new and improving technilogy!!!!

P.S. Mobile 1 15w/50 for me with NO problems!

whats the phone number?

or could you call them back up and ask WHAT THEY USE FOR BREAK IN?

every motor is started and broken in before put in a vette.......

id liek to know what type of oil is used for break in......

[beerock]

I have a valid reason for disputing it knightime and you are just ranting about how you know when you really dont have the facts...

at least texan called up chevy customer service....

so he is basing it on facts BUT Idotn think he asked about break in....

[Texan32]

1-800-222-1020 is the # i called. This is just what they told me. I'm not trying to dis you bee, but you wouldn't think that GM is going to take EVERY vette motor, run it for hours while constantly varing the rpm's, drain the oil and put in the synthetic. Personally, i just don't see it happening. I COULD BE WRONG! But in my eyes, i don't see it.

Like i said, vettes have always pushed the "new and improved" envelope. Mayne they are using special linings on the internal engine parts? Who knows. I'm just relaying info obtained from GM.

[knighttime]

log on and read for your self:
this is most of the info it says but i couldnt get it to copy all the info:


You can start using Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ in new vehicles at any time, even in brand-new vehicles. In fact, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ is original equipment (it is installed at the factory) in:


Chevrolet Corvette
All Porsche vehicles
Mercedes-Benz AMG vehicles
Dodge Viper
Ford Mustang Cobra R
All Aston Martin cars

One of the myths that persists about Mobil 1 is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. Current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design these high-performance cars, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ can be used in an engine from the day you drive the car off the showroom floor.

[knighttime]

Originally posted by knighttime
I'll bet u $50.00 that Chevrolet puts synthetic oil in the new corvettes at the factory. Put your money where your mouth is or stfu.

By the way, Chevy uses Mobil 1 synthetic. :rolleyes:

well are u gonna bet or what?

[beerock]

Originally posted by knighttime
log on and read for your self:
this is most of the info it says but i couldnt get it to copy all the info:


You can start using Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ in new vehicles at any time, even in brand-new vehicles. In fact, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ is original equipment (it is installed at the factory) in:


Chevrolet Corvette
All Porsche vehicles
Mercedes-Benz AMG vehicles
Dodge Viper
Ford Mustang Cobra R
All Aston Martin cars

One of the myths that persists about Mobil 1 is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. Current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design these high-performance cars, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ can be used in an engine from the day you drive the car off the showroom floor.

one thing they didnt say in there is that all the motors are broken in at the factory..

do you actually think they put motors in the cars without running them first?

im getting soem answers from some pros so ill link everyone once they answer....

I am not ruling out that im wrong about the break in for the vette engines...
But all the info you have told me doesnt say anything about break in.

just because you pasted writing form mobils site stating that you dont have to use conventional oil on a brand new car is becasue most motors are broke in at the factory.....

Well corvettes are made down the road from me,,maybe I'll just go down there after work and ask them WTF they use in the motors as there built..and settle this once and for all..he!! maybe I'll just buy one of them bring it home and run some diags on it..:eek:

[beerock]

good idea rico!!!!!

let us know!

[knighttime]

I bet BEEROCK $50.00 that all new corvettes are broken in with mobil 1 SYNTHETIC. He continues to dispute this over and over, yet he fails to accept the bet. I know its halloween, but bee why did u have to dress up in a CHICKEN costume, lmfao. boq boq boq, lmfao.

[beerock]

you have presented no information concerning motor break in....

just because they come from the factory with mobil one MEANS NOTHING its doesnt mean they use mobil one to break it in.

[knighttime]

:huh

[knighttime]

Originally posted by beerock
you have presented no information concerning motor break in....

just because they come from the factory with mobil one MEANS NOTHING its doesnt mean they use mobil one to break it in.

lmfao, they do NOT break in the engine at the factory, I'm not positive but I dont believe they even start the mofo. Surely someone as educated as u would know that they would never break it in at the factory because u never wanna let a new cam just sit there and idle. A new engine (with new cam) should be DRIVEN during break-in. lmfao, over and over again today :D

[86atc250r]

400exnh (chris)-

Heres the text from one such test that you requested. There are many more tests floating out there on the net if you'd like to look around for them
----
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/oiltest1.htm

[Texan32]

ok, i now JUST got off thew phone with Mobile tech support. Seeing as how GM has a corporate agreement with Mobile and seeing as how the vette motor was built using Mobile 1, i would think that GM is going to follow AND recommend Mobile's requirements to th "T". Mobile recommend a break in of 1000 miles. Coming from mobile tech, that is approx. 500hours of run time (again varing rpms). So, again, do you think GM runs their vette motors for 500 hours prior to installin them in the car? I will tel you this though. The tech support guy did say that NEW motors can run synthetic strait off the line (but who's gonna buy a brand new car, and take it strait to jiffy-lube). Its a REBUILT motor that he said DOES require a break-in oil since the manufacture's specs. have since been stretched from use.

Rico, PLEASE try to go by and solve this problem!!!!! My intent here isn't to disprove Beerock, i would just like the facts.

[beerock]

Originally posted by Texan32
ok, i now JUST got off thew phone with Mobile tech support. Seeing as how GM has a corporate agreement with Mobile and seeing as how the vette motor was built using Mobile 1, i would think that GM is going to follow AND recommend Mobile's requirements to th "T". Mobile recommend a break in of 1000 miles. Coming from mobile tech, that is approx. 500hours of run time (again varing rpms). So, again, do you think GM runs their vette motors for 500 hours prior to installin them in the car? I will tel you this though. The tech support guy did say that NEW motors can run synthetic strait off the line (but who's gonna buy a brand new car, and take it strait to jiffy-lube). Its a REBUILT motor that he said DOES require a break-in oil since the manufacture's specs. have since been stretched from use.

Rico, PLEASE try to go by and solve this problem!!!!! My intent here isn't to disprove Beerock, i would just like the facts.

me too thats all I wanted.... the facts, thanks for calling them.....

at least you presented facts and you werent rambling about how it was true and that you know. you got facts, thats al I wanted to know.

I also posted on another site and they said sort of the same thing. heres the link: http://www.donzi.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005944#000002

bUT this is only for new car motor......... so please, everyone who is reading this. dont think you can run your 400ex motor with a synthetic right away.......(I'm not sure about running synthetic in a 400ex right off the bat either)

from what my friend at r&d has told me mobil one really isnt that good compared to amsoil.....

[beerock]

have any of you checked out the other forum I posted?

you ugys might want to go over there and read up. these guys know there stuff, soem of them are 70's-80's offshore racers and a boat motor is put through more torture then any motor.

heres the link: http://www.donzi.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005944#000007

there postin some pretty good replies.

[knighttime]

:huh

[beerock]

Originally posted by knighttime


u never wanna let a new cam just sit there and idle. A new engine (with new cam) should be DRIVEN during break-in. lmfao, over and over again today :D

your actually wrong knighttime. so keep laughin

roller motors dont need to be "Driven" to break the cam in

YOu DO have to break in a solid lifter motor.
the correct way to break it in is to start it and let it run at 2000-2500 rpms to lubricate and break in the lobes for about 10-15 minutes..

if you tried to break a solid lifter motor in your way you would possibly wipe out the lobes as soon as you came to a stop sign:rolleyes:

[knighttime2]

:huh

[Taco]

Hey Beerock, do you remember what Tommy told you in chat the other day? Well your showing your arse. Why dont you put your money where your mouth is and shut the **** up? YOU ARE NOT THE ENGINE GOD!

[BrianWrightR6]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! Shut the F*CK up in this thread! Just put some D*MN oil in it and run the F*CKER!