ignition problems

[hippyguy]

hi all, i have a 110cc chinese import quad, electric start 4 gears and auto clutch, it was working perfect til i decided to hose it down after bring it back covered in mud, now it wont start, it will turn over but just wont ignite, i changed the spark plug but still no joy, there is only a few electrical components on this quad, i.e. coil, what looks like a capacitor and two transformer looking thingys. Can post pics if need be. Please help :ermm:

[u_want_some]

Well first of all it's becasue those quads (chinese imports) are made extremley cheap and fast, so in otherwards they are not made to last!! You can check and see if all of your wires are connected properly, such as your ground and starter wires. A buddy of mine purchased one of those a few months ago and had the ame problem.....took it to a local shop and they said it was the bottom end....He said, what? Could not figure out why it would be the bottom end thats causing the no start problem. If you are able to get it figured out please keep me posted, Thanks

[hippyguy]

i understand what u r saying but it was starting instantly til i decided to wash it, have checked all the wires and they r ok but there are some going into the engine which looks like they could have got water inside but cant get side off without undoing main bolt and i dont know if anything will fall out if i do. :-(

[u_want_some]

Well I cannot really answer that question for you becasue I have never disassembled one of these motors before myself. By chance did they give you any type of service manual or instructions of how to work on it when needed? If there is a right or left side case that has visable bolts you should be able to pull them off and have a look inside without anything just falling out. Just remeber how the bolts came out and make sure you put them backthe same exact way, I usually use a small piece of cardboard and draw a diagram and place the bolts through it. Best of luck and hope this helped you a little. If you can post a pic of both sides of the motor or send it to windows_cleaning@yahoo.com and I will try and help you as much as I can.

[u_want_some]

And by the way, the wires that are leading into the motor are connected to your stator which produces the electric current.

[wilkin250r]

First off, check for spark. Pull the plug out of the engine (leave the wire on), hold the plug against the head (for ground contact), and crank it over.

If you can't see spark, it's an ignition problem. If you DO have spark, it's a fuel problem.

[hippyguy]

Thank you both for replies, u_want_some i have a starter motor on outside of the engine so it cant b that as this is turning over so still dont know what the wires actually going into the engine are for, and wilkin250r, i have tried that but no joy, like i say it is turning over but just no spark, i also tried cleaning all electrical components with an electrical cleaner and someone said to try putting a bit of petrol in where the spark plug goes but this still did not work. Will post some pics on here tomorrow of quad and electrical parts.

Again many thanks for replies :-)

[wilkin250r]

Post pictures, and we will see if we can't get some electrical diagnostics worked out. The ignition systems are all pretty much the same, we just need to figure out what's what.

[homemadebrownie]

fill it up to with gas and turn the gas on =P

[hippyguy]

here is a pic of side of quad.

is full of gas homemadebrownie, not getting spark from spark plug =P

[hippyguy]

front of quad

[hippyguy]

this is what ht lead is attatched to

[hippyguy]

other 3 electrical components

[hippyguy]

wires going into engine

[hippyguy]

Many thanks to everyone who is helping me try and solve this problem, i wont be washing it with a hose again, just elbow grease :-)

[wilkin250r]

Naw, we'll get you to the point that you can wash it with a hose again. We'll just figure out what goes wrong, so you can avoid it in the future.

Okay, the spark plug lead attaches to the Ignition Coil. I can help you diagnose that.

The next picture of the 3 electrical components looks like the starter solenoid on the right (with the heavy red wires attached). The middle looks like the voltage regulator, and the left side looks like the CDI.

The wires going into the engine are the Stator. It's the equivalent of your car's Alternator.


If it turns over, then the Starter Solenoid is working correctly.

The Voltage Regulator shouldn't affect the ignition, so we won't worry about that right now.

So, let's concentrate our efforts on the Stator, the Ignition Coil, and the CDI. Those are the most likely culprits (my guess is the CDI, but let's start with the others first, because they are easier.)

[Sparky_20]

make sure your getting some sort of signal from the CDI to the Ignition coil, try a test light.

[hippyguy]

Thanks wilkin250r, am starting to get somewhere now :-)
also sparky_20 pls can u b more specific, sorry to sound dumb but this is first quad ive had so dont know much about them.

Again many thanks to both of you for helping :-)

[Sparky_20]

how many wires are going into the coil. There should be one big one that is the spark plug wire then a few from the CDI box. The coil should be getting direct battery voltage plus a signal of when to fire the spark plug from the CDI box. Check out how many wires are going into the coil then we will start troubleshooting there.

[hippyguy]

Thanks sparky_20 there are 2 besides the ht lead, a pink one that goes directly into the CDI box and a green one that goes into lots of other green wires together :-)

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by Sparky_20
The coil should be getting direct battery voltage plus a signal of when to fire the spark plug from the CDI box.

Sparky, you're thinking of an older points-ignition with a condenser and such. That's not the way a CDI electronic ignition works, there is no constant voltage.

Hippyguy, are you familiar with multimeters? (Really familiar). Do you know the difference in how to measure 1 ohm vs 1k ohm? We are going to need to take some resistance measurements on these components.

[hippyguy]

yes wilkin250r, i have a mutimeter, which parts do u want me to test and how :-)

again many thanks

[wilkin250r]

Let's check the coil.

The ignition coil is a very simple device. It's just two coils of wire, one with a few turns (called the primary side), and another with lots of turns (called the Secondary side).

The primary side is connected to the CDI, I believe you said it was a pink wire, and the green wire should be ground.

To make sure, check the resistance from chassis ground (some bare spot on the frame), and the GREEN WIRE. Do not check the terminal on the coil that the green wire is attached to, check the green wire itself. You should get dang near Zero Ohms, certainly less than one ohm.

If that passes, reconnect the green wire, and check the TERMINAL that the pink wire is connected to and chassis ground. This will be the primary winding resistance. Tell me the reading.

Also, pull the cap off the spark plug. The cap has some sort of metal connector in there that makes contact with the spark plug, correct? Measure the resistance from that connector inside the plug cap to chassis ground. Tell me the reading.

[hippyguy]

hi, i have tried testing all 3 wilkin250r but not getting a reading from any :-( take it that means its had it

[wilkin250r]

Let's not dismiss it just yet, because you should measure SOMETHING at some point.

Like I said, the Ignition coil is a really simple device, so I really doubt it is your problem. There's just not much to go wrong inside it. But even though I really doubt it's the problem, I still want to check it.

What is the ACTUAL measurement you get from the green wire to a bare spot on the frame?


Disconnect the wires, and check the resistance from the pink TERMINAL to the green TERMINAL on the coil. Don't check the wires themselves, check the Terminals they are attached to.


You've got to get SOMETHING. One side or the other might be bad, but not BOTH sides, that sort of thing just doesn't happen.

[hippyguy]

hi

the lowest setting on my test meter is 200 ohms.
i am still not getting a reading on the green wire and the frame but am getting a reading of 00.5 - 00.6 on the terminals :)

[wilkin250r]

Let's get our terminology straight. What do you mean when you say "not getting a reading"? Does that mean zero ohms, or does that mean infinite ohms?

Trace the green wire(s) as best you can. Does it connect to the frame anywhere?

0.5 to 0.6 sounds normal for the primary side of the coil.

The secondary side of the coil (spark plug side) should measure much higher, and the green terminal should be the ground point for both. So try a measurement from the spark plug cap to the green terminal, let me know what you get.






At the same time, let's start on the stator. How many wires are coming out of the engine? (these are your stator wires) What color are they?

Does the headlight work?

Most of the wires coming out of the engine (stator) should go into the CDI. But at least one of them should not, and this should be the lighting output. All the rest are ignition output wires. Even though they are both on the stator, the two systems work independent of each other.