What more can I do?

[airic22]

First off, I've never posted any forum threads so forgive me if I am ignorant of the ediquitte. My story/question is this: I am relatively new to the sport. I bought my 400ex new in '02 and it soon wan't enough for me. I rode a Banshee soon after that and fell in love with the 2 strokes. So I did my research and decided to find myself a "legendary" 250R. Bought mine last summer. I love the bike, it's fast, light, and fun. Everything I wanted except I'm still losing drag races to friends.......I hate that! Is it normal that a Honda 450 (only mod is pipe) and Raptor 700 (stock) are beating me in a drag race? It absolutely kills me that I'm losing to a Raptor! What more can I do with my 250 to make it faster? What is a power valve? Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated!

[Scott-300ex]

Well 450's are pretty close, I'm a little faster tha 450's.

First I'd say pipe and filter, obvioulsy

REEDS,

Then like a cool head.

Then you go in the motor

Port

Bore

Stroke.

Maybe you just need to change your gearing or shave a few pounds off yourself? :confused:

A PV makes your engine thinks its bigger than it is, it takes away from the snap though.

Welcome to the boards, good job getting a 250r and is your name eric?

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Scott-300ex
Well 450's are pretty close, I'm a little faster tha 450's.

First I'd say pipe and filter, obvioulsy

REEDS,

Then like a cool head.

Then you go in the motor

Port

Bore

Stroke.

Maybe you just need to change your gearing or shave a few pounds off yourself? :confused:

A PV makes your engine thinks its bigger than it is, it takes away from the snap though.

Welcome to the boards, good job getting a 250r and is your name eric?

what are you talking about? a- did you not see his sig? b- a PV makes an engine think its bigger than it is? that has to be the worst explanation for a PV that i have ever heard in my life...

[250r4life]

airic.... so which is it? do you have a paul turner pipe or a ct pipe?

basically, if the riders you are racing are have at least your level of riding skill, then yes, it is normal that you're getting beat...

you need a good port job, as well as a big bore...

you may look into getting a 310 kit... my 250r in my sig is basically as fast as an 06 yfz 450 with an HMF pipe, pro design K&N with lid off, and boyesen accelerator pump... im referring to drag racing the hill at the dunes...

flat drags on different surfaces may vary...

[airic22]

Sorry, my signature is a little misleading. On the cylinder it says "Paul Turner Type-6". The engine work was done by the previous owner who I've lost contact with. In his ad he said it was a 300......I took it in to have the top end gaskets and rings done and while they were at it they bored it and replaced the piston. The mechanic told me it was about a 300 or 305 and remarked at how well it was ported. The pipe, however, does not have any markings on it. The guy I bought it from said it was a CT. Does that make sense? I know it contradicts the cylinder saying "Type-6" and the pipe does look like the pictures of CT's that I've seen. Thanks for all the responses!

you can alway bump up the compression and run race gas, dont forget about the gearing, for different drag races you want different gearing, as well as rear tires. What kind of tires do you have now? are they bald? how is your jetting? what carb are you running? what kind of porting is done? i know you say type 6 but do some research and find out, i doubt it is a full drag port job.

[clutch22]

I have a 265, and I have the same problem alot of times and as far as my situation goes, i think it's mostly traction. I've got good holeshot nobbies and when racing 450's its a very close race, goes either way.
but in the sand i always get smoked, think my paddles are gettin alittle on the worn side. If ur racin in the sand make sure you got a good set of paddles on there. Some rippers or somthin like that.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by airic22
Sorry, my signature is a little misleading. On the cylinder it says "Paul Turner Type-6". The engine work was done by the previous owner who I've lost contact with. In his ad he said it was a 300......I took it in to have the top end gaskets and rings done and while they were at it they bored it and replaced the piston. The mechanic told me it was about a 300 or 305 and remarked at how well it was ported. The pipe, however, does not have any markings on it. The guy I bought it from said it was a CT. Does that make sense? I know it contradicts the cylinder saying "Type-6" and the pipe does look like the pictures of CT's that I've seen. Thanks for all the responses!

huh... well that paul turner type 6 pipe is a low end pipe, so putting 2 and 2 together i would assume your type 6 port would also be a low end port job... and that would explain your problem right there... you dont want a low end port job if youre wanting to drag...

also im not sure which pipe you have, but if it doenst correspond with your port job, youre not doing yourself any favors there either... why dont you post up a picture of it and im sure we'll be able to figure out what pipe you have...

[250r4life]

where exactly are you dragging at? sand, dirt, street?

how are you losing? are they getting the jump on you and just staying ahead, or do they pass you at a certain gear?

what gear are you launching in?

[airic22]

I'm just drag racing my buddies in the sand. I'm not trying to win any trophies, just want to be the fastest in my clique. For tires I have 21 inch 8 paddle haulers. Is that too big? I'm thinking I may have a gearing issue for tires that big. It does great in 1 through 4, 5 is so so and I lose rmp's in 6th gear. Like I said, I'm really new to this......any suggestions for gearing? As far as I can tell it is stock gearing right now. What type of pipe matches up best with a type-6? How do you "bump up the compression?" When we drag, I've tinkered with launching in 1st and 2nd gear but the results seem pretty equal. They are getting me off the line and then maintaining their lead.....the gap doesn't seem to get any bigger or smaller. Should I look into a long rod, or cool head? This is an old picture, but the pipe is the same. It's the only pic I have that's small enough. Still trying to figure out how to resize some better ones.

[redrooster310r]

some times when the clutch is old it dont work as good as a fresh one.....use oem plates....w/ cr 500 springs......you can loose some power there....

[blasterandy]

go grab a counter sprocket that is one tooth smaller than the stock one. The counter sprocket is the one in the front. that will help 6th gear out tremendously. Try having a comp. test run and tell us what you get. Change sprockets. Get a good picture of the pipe up close and if you can take the cyl. head off so we can see the port job, that will also aid in our search to find you more HP.

[zedicus00]

launch in second gear. wide open throttle and dump the clutch. also get some better back tires. yur quad is set up for MX and sounds like it ise set up VERY well for that. but draggin yur not at the peak of its capabilitys. regearing wouldnt hurt too.

yur set up should EAT thouse quads. i bet yur loosing to much to tire spin and things like that. does 6th pull hard or does it bogg? r you at top speed well before the end of the race or do you never hit it?

[airic22]

6th gear just boggs down. I haven't hit top speed in any of my drags. I'll try a smaller counter sprocket like blasterandy suggested. Will that hurt me in the smaller gears? I think my tires are in pretty good shape, they've only had three dune trips on them. (Not the ones in the pic) I will try pulling the cylinder head off tomorrow after work......if I still have the motivation, I hate Mondays. And hopefully I'll have some better pics. Thank you all for your help! My next dune trip is in August and I don't want to lose to my stinking friends any more. lol

[250r4life]

i wouldnt pull off the cylinder just to look at it... unless youre planning on having it re-ported before your next dune trip...

you should be able to launch in 2nd... i've found that i get the best launches not completely dropping the clutch, but having it in the powerband and letting out the clutch as i press the throttle even further... i usually shift into 3rd while the tires are still spinning...

[250r4life]

if you have an 89 you already have a long rod...

[250r4life]

and your bike is going to require more skill to drag then theirs will...

[400EX QUADER]

I have a 250r with esr 310 powervalve first bore motor, longrod, hinson clutch basket, pwk 39mm carb, trx5 centermount pipe, +6 swinger, 22-11-8 9 paddle ultralights, etc. It pulls those paddles easily.I whoop 450's at the dunes. Not even close. Even the real modded ones loose to me and they get all butthurt when they loose and come over to me and say dude that thing is fast, I only loose to banshees. I just laugh and say thanks. Here's a pic. I am selling the topend, piston, billet head, 2 domes,carb, and pipe... pm me if ya want.


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/sickrider/Picture104.jpg

[Scott-300ex]

250r4life, why is my description of a PV so wrong? Because its right.

And he said he was going to pull off the cylinder HEAD, not the cylinder, hopefully you know the difference.

To raise your compression when you take off you head get an 89 CR250 head gasket and that will boost it up a bit, You could also get the head milled.

Go down a tooth up front and you should hang with them.

And if your running bottom end pipe and porting, that will hurt you. You can get ports for anything you want, low, mid-high, high. You if your just doing draggin can get it where its wide open only, and you could get the bottom end set up where you don't even need the clutch, you'd all be amazed at wut you can get I talked to a guy with one down where I ride, he had that.

[400EX QUADER]

Originally posted by 250r4life
i wouldnt pull off the cylinder just to look at it... unless youre planning on having it re-ported before your next dune trip...

you should be able to launch in 2nd... i've found that i get the best launches not completely dropping the clutch, but having it in the powerband and letting out the clutch as i press the throttle even further... i usually shift into 3rd while the tires are still spinning...

That's how I launch... Get em from start to finish...

[zedicus00]

Originally posted by 250r4life
and your bike is going to require more skill to drag then theirs will...

this is absolutly tru.

and i wouldnt pull the topend just to look at it. if yur curious about it then do a compression test.

re-gear down so you can pull 6th. thatl mean more shifting down low. but it will be easier to keep it in the power band. that is key on 2-strokes. unlike yur buddys on the thumpers that can relly on torque, u need to find yur engines peak power and keep it their at all times.

the low end port job isnt a terrible thing for drag racing, but yur going to need lots of ride time to figure out what yur quad likes.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Scott-300ex
250r4life, why is my description of a PV so wrong? Because its right.


lol... because it is right huh?

im pretty sure that is the technical explanation for it- it "tricks" the motor into thinking it is bigger than it is... since the motor thinks and all...

now maybe if you had said that a PV tricks the motor into thinking it is ported differently then it is, you would have been halfway on the right track... but even still...

basically the PV varies the exhaust port depending on the RPMs- allowing for a strong bottom end and a good top end as well...

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Scott-300ex


And he said he was going to pull off the cylinder HEAD, not the cylinder, hopefully you know the difference.


hey... smart guy... why dont you go jump up and down on your bike in 6th gear to try and pre-load your suspension, and then do another one of your 6th gear wheelies... do it on pavement, and dont wear a helmet... against oncoming traffic wouldnt be a bad idea either...

somebody else had told him to pull off the cylinder and take pics so we could see the porting... if you could go ahead and tell me how he is going to see what the porting looks like by taking off the HEAD, i would sure love to learn...

why the frick would he want to pull off the head?

[airic22]

Can't we all just get along? lol. I decided not to take the cylinder OR the head off for the time being. I am going to order a smaller counter sprocket and start there. Maybe at the same time I'll order a CR250 gasket and take a couple pics of the cylinder then. I also just got a couple of better pics of my pipe, hopefully somebody out there can recognize it. Thanks for all the advice.

[airic22]

cylinder

[airic22]

better pic

[airic22]

My current counter sprocket is 14 teeth. So I'm getting a 13 on order. When looking for a CR250 gasket, do I need to stick with the '89 model year, or is there a better choice?

[250r4life]

leave the head alone for now... you were not geared stock if you have a 14, and yah if you were running a 14 tooth front and had the 21 rears, you were geared way too high...

what is your rear sprocket?

[airic22]

rear sprocket is a 38. Good with 13 up front? suggestions?

[250r4life]

yah... go with the 13 tooth... i would leave your head alone for now...

i wouldnt throw the cr gasket unless you had to, but i definately would do a compression test 1st anyway... and if youre ported for low end, more compression is for low to mid anyway, and can make it harder for your machine to wind out... and also youre going to have to make sure youre running high enough octane with more compression... go back to a 13 tooth, and practice launching in 2nd...

[400EX QUADER]

I run 14/41...

[250r4life]

Originally posted by 400EX QUADER
I run 14/41...

which has to be pretty close ratio to a 13/38

[400EX QUADER]

same... lol Just saying what I run for reference!

[juanki]

i wolud think go higher in the front or lower in the back.

for drag race, or have more on the long run, doesnt he need to bump up the front sprocket or taking down the rear one?

i'm in the page that for long runs, like desert type racing you will need a a combo like 13/36 14/39 or 15/39, and for short racing 13/39, or even 13/42.

am i rigth or am i all the way around?

i'm now at 13/39(38) wich is stock, and ordered 14 and a 15 size. to have more in the long run.

[Hoppedrap]

You have a low to mid port job with a low to mid pipe, Your setup seems setup for mx. If you drop from a 14 to thirteen you'll have even more bottem end. Ditch the CT midrange and have it reported.

[airic22]

Can anybody recommend a good builder in or near WA? Maybe Oregon? My local guy is decent, I think, but not a specialist by any means.

[400EX QUADER]

cam at redline racing, sweethome oregon

dan patriot racing, sumner washington

pete pirahna racing, washington

Can't go wrong with any of these guys for a 250r...

[707trx250r]

you are geared way to high try the 13/39

For cylinder work send it to c-leigh racing. He is the best 250r builder from my experence. Also there is nothing wrong with the ct midrange pipe.

you could just build a 350pv and whoop all your buddies:D
later
Adam

[Scott-300ex]

Originally posted by 250r4life
hey... smart guy... why dont you go jump up and down on your bike in 6th gear to try and pre-load your suspension, and then do another one of your 6th gear wheelies... do it on pavement, and dont wear a helmet... against oncoming traffic wouldnt be a bad idea either...

somebody else had told him to pull off the cylinder and take pics so we could see the porting... if you could go ahead and tell me how he is going to see what the porting looks like by taking off the HEAD, i would sure love to learn...

why the frick would he want to pull off the head?

Cuz he SAID pull off the head. I was telling you wut he SAID cuz you obviously didn't understand his post.

And don't rag on me cuz I've done 6th gear wheelies when the other day you said you did a 7th. :huh

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Scott-300ex
Cuz he SAID pull off the head. I was telling you wut he SAID cuz you obviously didn't understand his post.

And don't rag on me cuz I've done 6th gear wheelies when the other day you said you did a 7th. :huh


and youre dumb enough not to realize the sarcasm...