Excavating Schooling and Job Career

[ZeroLogic]

Well next year I'm graduating grade school and I need to find something to go to school for. Right now I am a framer and I don't think I could wake up five days a week to pound nails for the rest of my life. I was thinking about the excavating profession. Does anyone here have this as a job? How is the work and money? Any schools you reccommend to go to? Any infomation would be great. I need to find a job to set my eyes on after school. I hate staying inside and I cannot work with computers at all.

Thanks.:)

[yamaha250f]

Go be a cop its great long hours low pay and the most inconsistant shifts you could ever find plus you get to hear people complain all day and your always out and about. I love it:rolleyes:

[honda8&3]

Heavy equipment operating pays awesome. I don't do it as a proffesion right now but hope to get into it after high school. Definetly an awesome career, especially with todays technology, its as easy as pushing levers and buttons. But you do need to know all of the specs of septic systems, houses foundations etc...

[GE4x4]

Your best bet is to find a company to start with that is willing to train you. On the job training is 100X's better then any schooling you will pay for. And when you are working, watch and ask question. It won't come over night, but if your willing to be patient and willing to listen, you will get there. But being a true operator is more then just pulling levers, it's a feel and a art behind it and not everyone can do it. I've been operating equipment since 1985 and still learn new things. But now I run the jobs, and was able to keep going up in the ranks from operator, to foreman, and now a site super by asking question and taking in every bit of knowledge I could sink in. Way more then what any scool will teach you.:macho

[LTR450_#67]

Originally posted by GE4x4
Your best bet is to find a company to start with that is willing to train you. On the job training is 100X's better then any schooling you will pay for. And when you are working, watch and ask question. It won't come over night, but if your willing to be patient and willing to listen, you will get there. But being a true operator is more then just pulling levers, it's a feel and a art behind it and not everyone can do it. I've been operating equipment since 1985 and still learn new things. But now I run the jobs, and was able to keep going up in the ranks from operator, to foreman, and now a site super by asking question and taking in every bit of knowledge I could sink in. Way more then what any scool will teach you.:macho

Nothing like "hands on" experience.....and that goes with a lot of jobs.

[honda8&3]

Definetly that is why i go to trade school.

[my88r]

I think you Also need your CDL

[x.system]

Stay with framing, learn the trade and start your own business. You will be further ahead in 5 years if you go this route. I do excavation, have for the last 20 years. It does pay good but I can garantee you will make more money framing if you start your own business. All you need is 4 or 5 builders that put up 4 to 8 homes a year each and you will be set. Extra work, if you can take it on, will fall at your feet if your good at your trade. Excavating takes along time to get really good at, takes alot of talent to get the good money and is harder to advance if you don't find the right company. I felt the same way as you do, can't stand to be indoors working so I had to choose something that kept me outdoors. I love running equipment but it does get boring sometimes. Long hours in the summer where I see most builders kick off at 3:30/4:00 and we work until 5/6/7 depending on how close the job is to being completed. Here in MI, if your a builder you can build a new home every 2 years, sell it, and not pay capital gain on it so thats like a bonus in itself. Most builders I know build a new home every 3 to 5 years in the 350 to 500,000 range (thats a really good sized home for my area) our average home price around here is around 185,000. You won't find a heavy equipment operator in MI that ownes a home worth that much unless he owns the company.

[my88r]

Originally posted by x.system
Stay with framing, learn the trade and start your own business. You will be further ahead in 5 years if you go this route. I do excavation, have for the last 20 years. It does pay good but I can garantee you will make more money framing if you start your own business. All you need is 4 or 5 builders that put up 4 to 8 homes a year each and you will be set. Extra work, if you can take it on, will fall at your feet if your good at your trade. Excavating takes along time to get really good at, takes alot of talent to get the good money and is harder to advance if you don't find the right company. I felt the same way as you do, can't stand to be indoors working so I had to choose something that kept me outdoors. I love running equipment but it does get boring sometimes. Long hours in the summer where I see most builders kick off at 3:30/4:00 and we work until 5/6/7 depending on how close the job is to being completed. Here in MI, if your a builder you can build a new home every 2 years, sell it, and not pay capital gain on it so thats like a bonus in itself. Most builders I know build a new home every 3 to 5 years in the 350 to 500,000 range (thats a really good sized home for my area) our average home price around here is around 185,000. You won't find a heavy equipment operator in MI that ownes a home worth that much unless he owns the company.

owning your own bussiness and if you haves guys build the houses. you have alot of free time and you can build your own home and only pay for the materials so you can build as big of a house you want.

[gun32boarder]

Originally posted by honda8&3
Heavy equipment operating pays awesome. I don't do it as a proffesion right now but hope to get into it after high school. Definetly an awesome career, especially with todays technology, its as easy as pushing levers and buttons. But you do need to know all of the specs of septic systems, houses foundations etc...

You have alot to learn. Even with today's technology, not being able to keep a constant grade with those levers and buttons you will get no where. It is a lot harder then you may think.

Originally posted by x.system
Stay with framing, learn the trade and start your own business. You will be further ahead in 5 years if you go this route. I do excavation, have for the last 20 years. It does pay good but I can garantee you will make more money framing if you start your own business. All you need is 4 or 5 builders that put up 4 to 8 homes a year each and you will be set. Extra work, if you can take it on, will fall at your feet if your good at your trade. Excavating takes along time to get really good at, takes alot of talent to get the good money and is harder to advance if you don't find the right company. I felt the same way as you do, can't stand to be indoors working so I had to choose something that kept me outdoors. I love running equipment but it does get boring sometimes. Long hours in the summer where I see most builders kick off at 3:30/4:00 and we work until 5/6/7 depending on how close the job is to being completed. Here in MI, if your a builder you can build a new home every 2 years, sell it, and not pay capital gain on it so thats like a bonus in itself. Most builders I know build a new home every 3 to 5 years in the 350 to 500,000 range (thats a really good sized home for my area) our average home price around here is around 185,000. You won't find a heavy equipment operator in MI that ownes a home worth that much unless he owns the company.


i disagree, you wont make more money being a framer. Out framers only make 2.50 on the garage and $3 on the house, it dont come out to be much. Yeah we would build 40+ homes a year on a good year, but our framer would have to pay all the guys under him and he was usually looking at about 750-1100 in his pocket. And for 3-5 days worth of work, your not making much money as a framer.

But inexcavating once u get good at it you can make around $165 an hour on the machine! About a grand or 1500 a day and a few grand a week, its not bad. Sure you have to pay for the machine and gas,etc...but it is worth it IF YOU HAVE WORK.

[honda8&3]

Originally posted by gun32boarder
You have alot to learn. Even with today's technology, not being able to keep a constant grade with those levers and buttons you will get no where. It is a lot harder then you may think.

Work for a trucking company in their gravel pit. There is no grade there. But i know there is a lot to learn, that is why i want to start early. Landscaping requires much more of a perfection on grading areas etc...

[honda8&3]

Originally posted by my88r
I think you Also need your CDL

That is trucks with a GVW rating over 26,000.

[gun32boarder]

Originally posted by Honda86
i disagree, you wont make more money being a framer. Out framers only make 2.50 on the garage and $3 on the house, it dont come out to be much. Yeah we would build 40+ homes a year on a good year, but our framer would have to pay all the guys under him and he was usually looking at about 750-1100 in his pocket. And for 3-5 days worth of work, your not making much money as a framer.

But inexcavating once u get good at it you can make around $165 an hour on the machine! About a grand or 1500 a day and a few grand a week, its not bad. Sure you have to pay for the machine and gas,etc...but it is worth it IF YOU HAVE WORK.

Just look at the overhead for an excavating company. My boss just bought a PC50. After all of the payments, he is looking at $70k for that tiny piece of equipment. He has to carry loads of insurance, not to mention the payments on the other 2 PC150s he has. He makes a decent living, but just things breaking and just everyday costs stop him from making as much profit as you would think. A few of my parents friends are framers/GC and by the style of living they have, i would say they bring in more a year.

[gun32boarder]

Originally posted by honda8&3
Work for a trucking company in their gravel pit. There is no grade there. But i know there is a lot to learn, that is why i want to start early. Landscaping requires much more of a perfection on grading areas etc...

Try putting in a septic system and tell me how much grade matters.

[honda8&3]

I wasn't trying to be an a55 hole sorry, maybe its just because you can't hear my tone of voice on the computer. I was just trying to explain my reasoning, SORRY:(

[honda8&3]

Originally posted by gun32boarder
Just look at the overhead for an excavating company. My boss just bought a PC50. After all of the payments, he is looking at $70k for that tiny piece of equipment. He has to carry loads of insurance, not to mention the payments on the other 2 PC150s he has. He makes a decent living, but just things breaking and just everyday costs stop him from making as much profit as you would think. A few of my parents friends are framers/GC and by the style of living they have, i would say they bring in more a year.

psh Komastu junks. Buy a CATERPILLAR you can't go wrong with a CAT excavator.

excavator-CAT
Bulldozer- CAT, John Deere (small dozers)
Loader- CAT, old CLARKS, Michigan
Backhoe- John Deere, Case, Cat

[gun32boarder]

Originally posted by honda8&3
I was trying to be an a55 hole sorry, maybe its just because you can't hear my tone of voice on the computer. I was just trying to explain my reasoning, SORRY:(

I'm just saying you have alot to learn haha. It takes alot of patience and seat time to get good at operating. You can't expect to get a job with a company and hop right into the owners 150k excavator. You will be good friends with the shovel before you see any seat time.

[gun32boarder]

Originally posted by honda8&3
psh Komastu junks. Buy a CATERPILLAR you can't go wrong with a CAT excavator.

excavator-CAT
Bulldozer- CAT, John Deere (small dozers)
Loader- CAT, old CLARKS, Michigan
Backhoe- John Deere, Case, Cat

Tell me about it. The pc50 he just got (100 hours on it), has been looked at by techs 3 times trying to fix the lack of power and shuttering issues it has.

[honda8&3]

Originally posted by gun32boarder
Tell me about it. The pc50 he just got (100 hours on it), has been looked at by techs 3 times trying to fix the lack of power and shuttering issues it has.

Your better off spending the money for something like a CAT. You'll just spend the money saved on maintence!:huh

[honda8&3]

Originally posted by gun32boarder
I'm just saying you have alot to learn haha. It takes alot of patience and seat time to get good at operating. You can't expect to get a job with a company and hop right into the owners 150k excavator. You will be good friends with the shovel before you see any seat time.

Alright, thought that you were mad at me or something LOL!:D

[gun32boarder]

Originally posted by honda8&3
Your better off spending the money for something like a CAT. You'll just spend the money saved on maintence!:huh

Wasn't my choice, haha i just operate/set septic tanks and fields. I would have went with a kubota Kx161 for a mini excavator.

[honda8&3]

Originally posted by gun32boarder
Wasn't my choice, haha i just operate/set septic tanks and fields. I would have went with a kubota Kx161 for a mini excavator.

Yeah the Kubota's are great for the small excavators. My boss was thinking of getting one for digging graves in the seven cemeteries that we dig at and doing regular landscaping work. He isn't going to though cause he just went through a divorce and everything.:(

[gun32boarder]

Originally posted by honda8&3
Yeah the Kubota's are great for the small excavators. My boss was thinking of getting one for digging graves in the seven cemeteries that we dig at and doing regular landscaping work. He isn't going to though cause he just went through a divorce and everything.:(

My parents divorce screwed me out of a landscaping business. :ermm:

[honda8&3]

Originally posted by gun32boarder
My parents divorce screwed me out of a landscaping business. :ermm:

That sucks. Hope my parents never divorce.

[ZeroLogic]

Originally posted by x.system
Stay with framing, learn the trade and start your own business. You will be further ahead in 5 years if you go this route. I do excavation, have for the last 20 years. It does pay good but I can garantee you will make more money framing if you start your own business. All you need is 4 or 5 builders that put up 4 to 8 homes a year each and you will be set. Extra work, if you can take it on, will fall at your feet if your good at your trade. Excavating takes along time to get really good at, takes alot of talent to get the good money and is harder to advance if you don't find the right company. I felt the same way as you do, can't stand to be indoors working so I had to choose something that kept me outdoors. I love running equipment but it does get boring sometimes. Long hours in the summer where I see most builders kick off at 3:30/4:00 and we work until 5/6/7 depending on how close the job is to being completed. Here in MI, if your a builder you can build a new home every 2 years, sell it, and not pay capital gain on it so thats like a bonus in itself. Most builders I know build a new home every 3 to 5 years in the 350 to 500,000 range (thats a really good sized home for my area) our average home price around here is around 185,000. You won't find a heavy equipment operator in MI that ownes a home worth that much unless he owns the company.

Its hard to get work during the winter months for framing. Also its hard to get your name out there especially where I live and the help ontop of it. I mean I love my job right now its just that these hot summer days and low tolerence for b.s. makes me think again about this field. I was talking to one of the framers I was working with this morning and he said you don't want to swing a hammer for the rest of your life. Its not good in money as everyone thinks and it does a number on your back. I am just really confused right now on what I want to go to school for and time isn't on my side.:ermm:

[gun32boarder]

Originally posted by ZeroLogic
Its hard to get work during the winter months for framing. Also its hard to get your name out there especially where I live and the help ontop of it. I mean I love my job right now its just that these hot summer days and low tolerence for b.s. makes me think again about this field. I was talking to one of the framers I was working with this morning and he said you don't want to swing a hammer for the rest of your life. Its not good in money as everyone thinks and it does a number on your back. I am just really confused right now on what I want to go to school for and time isn't on my side.:ermm:

It is hard to get your name out there for anything. What ever you choose contractor careers will have physcial drawbacks. I would continue school, even if it community college. Most schools will offer construction tech and things along those lines.

[yamahonda]

Originally posted by gun32boarder
Wasn't my choice, haha i just operate/set septic tanks and fields. I would have went with a kubota Kx161 for a mini excavator. thats what mini excavator we got its baddass.. we demo'd every possible brand out there .. its got most power and is smooth like butter... as for someone wanting to go to school to learn how to excavate go for it but i dont care how much schooling you have.. you either got it or you dont ...school might teach you the basics but wont help you finesse a machine to do what you think it should do... some ppl just need time on machines to get better.. some ppl even time on a machine wont help them trust me we have few of them types at my work.. been running machines for yrs and still suck... but when a shovel is needed they are handy to have around..lol

[x.system]

Originally posted by ZeroLogic
Its hard to get work during the winter months for framing. Also its hard to get your name out there especially where I live and the help ontop of it. I mean I love my job right now its just that these hot summer days and low tolerence for b.s. makes me think again about this field. I was talking to one of the framers I was working with this morning and he said you don't want to swing a hammer for the rest of your life. Its not good in money as everyone thinks and it does a number on your back. I am just really confused right now on what I want to go to school for and time isn't on my side.:ermm:

Nothing in life comes easy, if it did everyone would have their own business. You have to be agressive and have the drive to go after it. If I were in your shoes I would take a business class or two. If I could start over at your age I would garantee I would start my own business before I went down the same road I've gone. There are alot of trades you could choose that have a low starting cost that don't require alot of equipment or tools. A few I can think of are siding, brickeys (decorative house block), roofers, drywallers, flat work.

Painting, heres a good example, my cousin used to work for a painting company making $10/$12 an hour painting houses inside and out. Quit his job, bought a couple sprayers, signed up with blue book and has been making $150,000 a year every since. He only takes on enuff jobs to keep himself and his wife busy for 8 months out of the year, the rest of the time he spends hunting. He's expanded to tree trimming and tree removal since he bought a boom truck for painting to keep that truck busy more so he does the tree work and his wife does most of the paint work. He could make alot more but he likes his freedom so he is always turning jobs down.

I work for a small company where I do everything, drainfields, dig basements, driveways, barn sites, road jobs, sewer and water hookup, even dig a pond/lake here and there. I move the equipment myself every day, work 10/12 hour days. Its not easy on your back in this field either, I messed mine up last wednesday and could barely walk the next day. I've worked for two small companies over the last 20 years, I topped out within the first 5 years and have to fight for a raise and only do that every 2 years with our economy the way it is. I like learning new things in the field but can't do that doing the same jobs over and over so I switch companies, its almost that time again, the problem is the only thing I havn't done is the union thing, not available around here and mining field with the huge equipment, again not available around here so I may end up relocating to another state or bite the bullet and start my own business.

If you do get into excavating for someone else go to the union if there is one in your area. They have training programs, better benifits, better pay scale. Look up your local union and ask alot of questions. Excavating isn't hard to learn if you have the talent to see grade or feel it. The hard part is converting that feel to the machine. My basement grade is within 1/2 inch across the whole bottom, usually less depending on the conditions. I've tried to train a couple guys over the years and have only found a couple guys that can cut a grade without screwing it up. I mostly dig basements right now and my number 1 priority is to make the cement mans life easy, if he can go in and set footings without lifting a shovel I've done my job the way I was trained but on top of that I have to make sure I have located enuff dirt around the site to make it an easy backfill, easy access for the cement trucks, make sure water will drain off site, and not tear up any utilities. If you think its just pushing buttons and levers you will never make it in this field. Any monkey can run a piece of equipment, the key is to run it efficiently and safly.

[ZeroLogic]

Originally posted by x.system
Nothing in life comes easy, if it did everyone would have their own business. You have to be agressive and have the drive to go after it. If I were in your shoes I would take a business class or two. If I could start over at your age I would garantee I would start my own business before I went down the same road I've gone. There are alot of trades you could choose that have a low starting cost that don't require alot of equipment or tools. A few I can think of are siding, brickeys (decorative house block), roofers, drywallers, flat work.

See the thing is I wouldn't even know where to look for work say if I started my bussiness. How hard is it to get into the Union. Some say its extreamly hard and others say its all about luck.:ermm:

[my88r]

Originally posted by ZeroLogic
See the thing is I wouldn't even know where to look for work say if I started my bussiness. How hard is it to get into the Union. Some say its extreamly hard and others say its all about luck.:ermm:

its more about luck in my opoion.

[troyleepred719]

Ever think about Masonry?

[my88r]

Originally posted by troyleepred719
Ever think about Masonry?

thats just as hard as framing

[Robin Hood]

Get your CDL and either drive a truck all day for 44$ an hour, or get hands on experience with a local company excavating. It is amazing pay but the days are long and you work in any type of weather with hours ranging from 4am to 8 at night. Over time is sweet and usually I try to get at least 1-2 hours in OT. Over spring break this year I pulled in 1500$ working under prevailing wages.

Get acquainted with a shovel and a rake, they will be your best friends for a looooooooooooooong time.:D

[yamahonda]

i would do like he said try to get on with a smallish compan and with time they will let you run machines like most small companys do.. you will get better with time.. if you go union you can only run machines or labor and drive you cant go doing a bunch of diff trades its a big no no in the union.. now maybe after you work for a small company and get your skills dialed in then maybe you can try a union....