Bored as HELL!!! Tell me what u think

[blasterandy]

Alright so how many have heard of the electric turbo thing. It just uses a motor to turn the turbine rather than exhaust. Wonder if you can put one on a 400??. i was thinking of buying one if i get a car no use for one in a ****ty s10. If i do will try it. It seems like it would be a good upgrade if you could ever get it jetted right. It would prolly be good on a raptor or anyother EFI quad. Don't they automatically calibrate the Air Fuel mix.

[vett_09]

I've never heard of it, but it kind of sounds like it's not much more than an electric fan.

As far as the EFI goes, I think they do automatically calibrate the air / fuel mix. But if you modify it to that point you would probably have it piped as well, and if that were the case you would need a power commander anyway.

[400exrider707]

I hope you are joking... if not then they are a waste of time, they are basically just a computer fan. Also most EFI quads sold today cant even compensate enough for taking the lid off or just adding an exhaust...;)

[TYayo420]

some way, somehow, you can get a turbo on a 400ex. I don't know the logistics of it, but if nitros is able to be put on a quad, then turbo is too.

So those new efi quads, when you put a exhaust on em, they dont run as good as a carbed one would after re-jet? i talked to a yami dealer he tried tellin me to buy the efi rappy, i said no ill stick to honda's carbs are better and easier and cheaper to work on, he said no the efi's are all around better, never thought of mods and if it'd work alright or not.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by TYayo420
some way, somehow, you can get a turbo on a 400ex. I don't know the logistics of it, but if nitros is able to be put on a quad, then turbo is too.

So those new efi quads, when you put a exhaust on em, they dont run as good as a carbed one would after re-jet? i talked to a yami dealer he tried tellin me to buy the efi rappy, i said no ill stick to honda's carbs are better and easier and cheaper to work on, he said no the efi's are all around better, never thought of mods and if it'd work alright or not.


Of course turbos can be put on 400ex's there are tons of them with them, maybe not on these boards, but you can even buy kits for them. He is talking about an electric turbo, its a piece of crap, its nothing more than a computer fan.

EFI quads are great, they are more expensive to tune sure. All I'm saying is some of them when you put a pipe on cant compensate for the extra flow, which is why a programmer must be bought. Their throttle response is awesome as well, with no bog and no hesitation anywhere.

[C_Fizzle]

realisticly... it has to do something, i mean it WOULD be forced induction, might not be an extremely noticable gain,... but the pure function of it would have to do somthing

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by C_Fizzle
realisticly... it has to do something, i mean it WOULD be forced induction, might not be an extremely noticable gain,... but the pure function of it would have to do somthing

What would it do? The intake pulse from the simple action of the motor would pull in more air than that fan could push. When the valve is closed where is it pushing air? No where.

[TYayo420]

so let me get this straight...

he's basically saying, putting a computer cooling fan, where the air filter is to force more air into the engine?

[C_Fizzle]

i didn't say a computer fan, they barely do there job as it is,, but with sumthin with a little more "umph" it could work! i even heard of one guy using a hair dryer with the heater coil out of it ,.. i'm not sayin to go out and tryin it or nuttin , but forced air does make a difference, it does in cars, crotch rockets, and everything else with engines.. so y not this?

[TYayo420]

where is the air going tho? i mean i have a airfilter blocking my carb, explain where you are putting this? in the airbox? im confused on placement? im trying to get what your saying, and i used a cpu fan for a example.

[blasterandy]

They eram is the only widely known one and best all others are like he stated computer fans. It goes inbetween the k&n and air tube. It would prolly need to have the air box removed. The e-ram pushes about 800cfm around 1.8psi. not much for a car but may help for the atv. http://www.electricsupercharger.com/ . I am not really joking just kickin around some ideas, i just got outta school for summer break so i am bored. "/ I would prolly buy a cheap 50$ one if i was to fab something for the atv.

Edit: I do have an old computer fan lying around :devil: Jk. I figured i would throw this number into the mix a normal 80mm comp fan only rounds about 35cfm. and i doubt it would spin fast enough to pull even .01 psi

[TYayo420]

haha i wouldnt buy that kit for one reason, 300 bucks, i can make something like that to look as nice, and prolly more powerful for 50 bucks or less, but if it works thats cool.

[blasterandy]

true dat but they are a pretty accomplished company my buddy jay has one in his camaro, i drove the car before and after. i can say it does add some power a WOT like it says. You can hear it kick in it sounds like a really really well tamed turbo kinda the same sound but not. you can tell that it has some type of forced air induction. It changes the power output, gives it alot more useable power i wouldn't say that it adds a whole heluva lot may 5-6hp he says more but i dunno.?? I would ask to lemme use it but he's at the Cit. now. None the less it helps.
Look on ebay and search for electric turbo or something along those lines and you will get some that look like a real turbo... Sound like a peice to me only 200cfm, and your getting 40hp doesn't sound real. Though that ought to be enuf for a quad... Like you said you could prolly make one and truth is you could all i see is a small vacuum engine and a turbine in a box. "/
but like i said if i get one for the car or i have 30 bucks to throw a way i may consider. it.

[C_Fizzle]

what it does is atomize the air/fuel mixture, making it easier to burn, kinda like those "tornado air" thingys i guess.. be interesting to see if it REALY works

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by C_Fizzle
what it does is atomize the air/fuel mixture, making it easier to burn, kinda like those "tornado air" thingys i guess.. be interesting to see if it REALY works \


It doesn't work, all it does is spins and pushes air into the motor, but like I said before where is it going? The intake pulse from the motor is pulling way more air than that thing is capable of pushing, then when its on compression or exhaust the intake valve is closed, so where is the air going?

I'm willing to bet it restricts air more than it forces it in.

[aaronqjones]

This guy makes an electric turbo and supercharger. It is not a small unit though, not feasible for an atv.

http://www.boosthead.com/home.php

[Kaleigh]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
\


It doesn't work, all it does is spins and pushes air into the motor, but like I said before where is it going? The intake pulse from the motor is pulling way more air than that thing is capable of pushing, then when its on compression or exhaust the intake valve is closed, so where is the air going?

I'm willing to bet it restricts air more than it forces it in.

how come all you talk about is theory.. dont mean to sound rude.. but just about everything that is brouht up that isnt from and ATV specific company you say its no good or wont work.. also.. what do you think a turbo does.. it pushes air.. what are you talking about when you say where is the air going.. where the air goes.. towards the intake and stays there til its needed on the next stroke like any other turbo thats non electric..

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by Kaleigh
how come all you talk about is theory.. dont mean to sound rude.. but just about everything that is brouht up that isnt from and ATV specific company you say its no good or wont work.. also.. what do you think a turbo does.. it pushes air.. what are you talking about when you say where is the air going.. where the air goes.. towards the intake and stays there til its needed on the next stroke like any other turbo thats non electric..

This is far from the truth, but when stuff like this gets brought up... I mean come on... an electric turbo, this doesn't seem just a little ridiculous to you? Yes a turbo pushes air, but it pushes A LOT more air than a computer fan pushes. Just try and picture a computer fan in your intake pushing air... they have problems pushing ambient air around inside your computer, the struggle with barely any load, now try to imagine one pulling air in trough a filter and trying to stuff it into a cylinder, it simpy just doesn't move enough air to be effective. This is not a turbo, it doesn't spool up, it is simply a fan that pushes and pulls air. Like I said your intake pulse from your motor would over power this fan making it useless. The idea behind a turbo is to literally take way more air and fuel than a motor can pull on its own and stuff it into the cylinder. A computer fan simply will not accomplish this task. If you guys are willing to try this out, please feel free and let us know your results with dyno proof and an a/f chart. Thanks


Also what is wrong with theory? You must first have a theory before you can try an idea right? If not you are reverse engineering. I prefer to see if somethign will work by designing and calculating on paper or in software, before spending money on someting only to find out it wont work. Why bother wasting the money?

[TYayo420]

well i think i can answer your question about where the air will go when the valves close.

ok, lets say on a 250f, if you are pinned (12 000 rpms (revolutions per minute)) your piston is going up and down 200 times per second [12 000/60], and your valves are opening and shutting 100 times a second...

At idle which is 1700 rpms they would be opening/shutting 14.1 times per second or 850 times a minute...

ok so say the 400ex, (since i dont know its max rpm's or i woulda used that for this example) say its valves open and close at 12 times per second for ****s n giggles, well the air being pushed (even if its not suffecient fromt he cpu fan as its being called) is going to still go into the motor, when the valves are closed, it's for a fraction of a second so by time the air gets there from it being closed, it happened so fasty, i do not believe that it wouldnt do something due to the valves are shut for a very close period of time. When you are WOT, its much faster and so on, so the air is basically continously going into the cumbustion chamber cuz the valves are pretty darn near open so to say '24/7' when a motor is on, if any of this makes sense.

[1965 honda]

has anyone heard of the cyclone? its this part you put in between the carb and air filter. it is suppose to force the incoming air into a cyclone so that it is moving air faster and at a higher rate. these have been proven to work on cars for years. this electric turbo is the same idea kinda so i would think it would work. but calling it a turbo is foolish forced air induction would be closer.and its not a computer fan 400exrider707 so quit being so negetive.

[TYayo420]

next it'd be called a cold air intake hahaha, no im all with you in trying something out, but i would like to try a REAL turbo, with blow off valves and the whole 9 yards, if i can find a whole set up on ebay for 300 or less, ill get it and try it out.

[C_Fizzle]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
\


It doesn't work, all it does is spins and pushes air into the motor, but like I said before where is it going?

...into the combustion chamber!!!! a cars intake pulse is a hell of a lot more then a guads, and the things seem to work fine on those!!!??!?! but that whole "computer fan", even if the spinning of the fan from the intake pulse (when put together) would atomize the air, and even give it a little push into the cylinder...the mechanics alone.... again... it would have to do something

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
If you guys are willing to try this out, please feel free and let us know your results with dyno proof and an a/f chart. Thanks



That is all.... just try it then, if it works then congratulations. Is anyone actually going to try it or just think about it?

At least we have a good discussion going now.... people are being forced to think!:chinese:

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by C_Fizzle
...into the combustion chamber!!!! a cars intake pulse is a hell of a lot more then a guads, and the things seem to work fine on those!!!??!?! but that whole "computer fan", even if the spinning of the fan from the intake pulse (when put together) would atomize the air, and even give it a little push into the cylinder...the mechanics alone.... again... it would have to do something

What makes you say that a cars pulse is more? A quad generally has a much shorter intake so pulling air in is very easy for a quad motor. I dont see how the fan is going to atomize the air. The air doesn't atomize until it reaches the motor. It only turns into tiny liquid droplets leaving the carb, it still isn't atomized yet. I see what you are saying any amount of air being forced into the intake would have to do somethign, but I just dont think its strong enough to really have an effect. I'm just not convinced. Some of you seem to be very convinced so I wonder why no one has ordered one up yet?:confused:

[TYayo420]

well 400exrider707, by your responces, it seems you know a thing or 2, so in your opinion, how much PSI would it take forced into the carb, to make a significant difference, aka turbo action on a ex?? im thinking 3-5psi would be plents, how about you?

[C_Fizzle]

3-5 psi makes a noticable difference on a civic (i know first hand), so it's really hard to say what it would do to a quad. most likely blow it up,...personally i got no use for a boosted 400ex where i ride,

back to the atomization... it actually atomizes the particals BEFORE they go into the cylinder, creating a cleaner burn, and better fuel ecconomy..... but yea... we just need someone to get it set up and tell us if it actually does do anything

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by TYayo420
well 400exrider707, by your responces, it seems you know a thing or 2, so in your opinion, how much PSI would it take forced into the carb, to make a significant difference, aka turbo action on a ex?? im thinking 3-5psi would be plents, how about you?


My turbo knowledge isn't really what I would call "vast" but I do know enough to understand that a simple little fan will really accomplish nothing.


I know I've read a thread before where some extremely bored guys sitting around a dyno, decided to hook up a leaf blower to a honda civic and recorded near a 10hp gain through the entire RPM range. Now lets think how insignificant 10hp is compared to what a real turbo makes. Now think about how much air a leaf blower pushes compared to one of these electric turbos.... Its not going to even be worth the time to install it.

I know there are a few guys kicking around here with some turbo knowledge.

[TYayo420]

Originally posted by C_Fizzle
3-5 psi makes a noticable difference on a civic (i know first hand), so it's really hard to say what it would do to a quad. most likely blow it up,...

I dont need a boasted ex where i ride or race either, but it's something that has my interests now, and something i may try.

Well if your compression is lower, then it might not blow it up, so that helps narrow it down, 1-2 psi then right? or is that too low of a number? i think 1-3 at most would be sufficient.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by C_Fizzle


back to the atomization... it actually atomizes the particals BEFORE they go into the cylinder, creating a cleaner burn, and better fuel ecconomy..... but yea... we just need someone to get it set up and tell us if it actually does do anything

Excuse me I was using wrong terminology so I was incorrect. Atomization is the term for when liquid gas is sprayed into tiny droplets, but it's still a liquid, vaporization is when it becomes a gas.

So that cleared up, do you think the stock carb needs more help in atomization then? That alone could be a benefit, if it indeed did do this.

[C_Fizzle]

not saying it "needs" better atomization, but i can't see it hurting, cooler temps help, cleaner gas,.... all kinda of little things u can do to improve it, but with a "cyclone" motion; the particles wouldn't "clump together" for lack of a better term, thus keeping the fuel and air atomized for a longer period of time before ignition leading to a hotter burn

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by C_Fizzle
not saying it "needs" better atomization, but i can't see it hurting, cooler temps help, cleaner gas,.... all kinda of little things u can do to improve it, but with a "cyclone" motion; the particles wouldn't "clump together" for lack of a better term, thus keeping the fuel and air atomized for a longer period of time before ignition leading to a hotter burn


You cant see it hurting and I cant see it helping. How do you know it wouldn't hurt it, like me, you haven't tried it out either.:confused:

[TYayo420]

i was unable to find the post you were talking about 400exrider in the 250ex thread.

What is a good size in psi terms turbo too look for? im beyond the electric ones or the cheapies or whatever, i am looking into a real deal car turbo, thanks for the input so far, and yeah, this is a interesting convo so far.

[Valhalla]

http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=AB544E3B-5DFF-416D-9CFD-A1AD23CA9564&term=leaf%20blower&p=0


alot of you should look at theis video and rethink your comments....

[C_Fizzle]

hahah thank you... i rest my case, theres no way in hell that leaf blower is puttin out more then the intake is putting in, but yet there was a huge gain. once the intake matches the blowers power, it's taking matters into it's own hands, and spooling up the fan so it will keep up,... forced induction works!

[TYayo420]

BUT, you need something that pushes enough air, a small puny fan will make 1hp or maybe 3hp gains. at most too, what exrider i think means is, you must find something that can put out enough air to make a noticeable difference.

[REDRIDDER]

Originally posted by Valhalla
http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=AB544E3B-5DFF-416D-9CFD-A1AD23CA9564&term=leaf%20blower&p=0


a lot of you should look at theirs video and rethink your comments.... wow that's amazing and how do we make this fit my ex ha ha ha ha...someone please build a leaf blower for their ex and post the results amazing. good find Valhalla i think you prove your point.

[TYayo420]

id never have a leaf blower stickin out of my ex's ***, that'd be a rediculous site, and when you shut your quad off, you gotta get off shut that down, then start it up seperate from the quad lol i much rather go with somethin off my battery

[C_Fizzle]

Originally posted by TYayo420
BUT, you need something that pushes enough air, a small puny fan will make 1hp or maybe 3hp gains. at most too, what exrider i think means is, you must find something that can put out enough air to make a noticeable difference.

yes i know , to get a huge gain, u need some crazy PSI, however what i'm sayin is... even if a small fan can't push enough air in, it's still spinning in there none the less, ultimately creating a spiral which will atomize the mixture for a cleaner, hotter burn, the suction of the intake pulse would be what spins the fan, so the faster u go, the faster it spins

[TYayo420]

what kind of fan are you thinking in your head with this project?

[C_Fizzle]

in particular i'm not thinking of any fan,.. i'm just sayin that the concept is plausable if the proper hardware was availibe

[TYayo420]

the hardware is available. Im trying to find the correct stuff to get this idea to be more believable too. I need some suggestions from ppl, since we got it straight it does something, now, can we figure out what is needed?

[C_Fizzle]

a company makes these things for cars called TORNADO AIR,, all it is, is a fan that goes behind your air filter and makes that vortex motion... dunno if they make it for a motorcycle application, little alone a ATV.. but i'll look into it

[Valhalla]

Originally posted by C_Fizzle
a company makes these things for cars called TORNADO AIR,, all it is, is a fan that goes behind your air filter and makes that vortex motion... dunno if they make it for a motorcycle application, little alone a ATV.. but i'll look into it

those dont spin, they just make the airflow that goes across them spinin a votex.

[blasterandy]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Electric-Supercharger-Turbo-Same-as-competition-4-cost_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33741QQihZ005QQite mZ150128500462QQrdZ1

Thats the ebay item, El' Chepo' style. And all you would need a flange to bolt on to the air boot considering you removed the air box. If its suppose to work on a car i don't see how it wont help an atv. Second atomizing the fuel. Where have you been we are talking strictly about air the only thing needing to do with fuel is changing the jets. (Jets are what atomize the fuel as it is injected into the cylinder!) C_fizzle please stop talking about the Tornado they don't work i bought the truck with one on it and have not noticed any change in gas mileage or performance since i removed it, plus it doesn't have anything to do with what we are talking about(for those of you who dont know what a Tornado Air is... Its a peice of metal with 3 prongs ment to siphon the air into the intake). Second it is not a computer fan as i stated. a comp fan pushes around 35cfm the cheap EFAI pushes 300cfm if you had that in a computer you would destroy it. Thats like taking an air compressor and trying to cool a computer with that. The parts you would need to do this could prolly be purchased from lowes, autozone or likewise. All it is, is a peice of ruber piping and inmy opinion some duct tape would be my method of choice until i figured out if it worked or not.
Andrew

[TYayo420]

too bad this link doesn't work.

[C_Fizzle]

Originally posted by blasterandy
C_fizzle please stop talking about the Tornado they don't work i bought the truck with one on it and have not noticed any change in gas mileage or performance since i removed it, plus it doesn't have anything to do with what we are talking about

i've had friends use this product on there cars and have had results, so the application must differ, and yea we got a lil off topic here, but all in all, this is a message board... so whats it matter

[hornetgod13]

Originally posted by C_Fizzle
a company makes these things for cars called TORNADO AIR,, all it is, is a fan that goes behind your air filter and makes that vortex motion... dunno if they make it for a motorcycle application, little alone a ATV.. but i'll look into it

Unfortunately I bought into it and found out personally how much of a waste of time and money it was too late.

[Carter]

Of course they work! Just not as intended...

Typically only work as owner installed FOD devices.

[REDRIDDER]

Originally posted by TYayo420
id never have a leaf blower stickin out of my ex's ***, that'd be a rediculous site, and when you shut your quad off, you gotta get off shut that down, then start it up seperate from the quad lol i much rather go with something off my battery I'm just stunned on how good it worked just cool how that worked with the leaf blower and it would work on the ex but yes it would be ridiculous but cool at the same time knowing that you could do it if you wanted to the gains would be significant I'm sure with proper jetting.ps electric motors that are small can be powerful enough to maybe have a separate electric starter and kill switch to the blower motor.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by C_Fizzle
ultimately creating a spiral which will atomize the mixture for a cleaner, hotter burn, the suction of the intake pulse would be what spins the fan, so the faster u go, the faster it spins


You sound like you're reading right off the back of the tornado box. Can you actually explain any of what you just said?

The faster you go the faster the fan spins? Ok, well that wouldn't be forced induction if the intake pulse is what is spinning the fan, it is now a restriction, not a power adder.


The Tornado Air, has been proven to be a worthless POS.

[TYayo420]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
The Tornado Air, has been proven to be a worthless POS.

lol

well, i still think the best idea we have had so far, i ssomething that creates air, a significant ammount of air as well, this way we can actually have some real psi to work with other then a suction device.

[blasterandy]

sorry bout the link just go to ebay and search electric supercharger

[Batavia's450r]

it seems like alot of talk... and i strongly suggest any one who puts any of this on a ex has a real fresh solid motor... and the ppl who are all for it... prove it yourself and post what happens to your quad on here!! or invite me over so i can watch haha it might be something worth watchin its first ride... and if it works good look running tim farr down on a TT straight away or keith little