The future of ATVing....1993

[TWILES]

This is out of the November 1993 3 and 4 Wheeler Action Magazine. It sure was a bleak 10 years. I like the picture of the 250 Quadsport, Blaster, Mojave, and 250X and the Banshee and 500 together.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t300/TWILES_21/mag1.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t300/TWILES_21/mag2.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t300/TWILES_21/mag2001.jpg

Call me stuck in the past but all those machines listed are the only ATVs i have ever owned and still own. The quad on the market today are no faster too...

[GPracer2500]

That's a fun read. Thanks.

[79400ex]

In the picture of the arctle. I might in it. I believe I might be the one the guy in the black shirt is helpingout of the water.

[coryatver]

Blackwater must have been an amazing race. That is crazy honda was there then 5 years later the 400ex came out.

[TWILES]

The 400ex was the first kick to the nuts and the 450s were the ones that drove them into out throats. I miss my 250R, Banshee, and 500. I hope BRP and KTM really make bikes that kick the OG's in the *** so we get thumpers comparative to the 2-strokes.

I found a ton of old DirtWheels and 3 and 4 wheeler actions at my moms and started looking through them. I remember reading them when I was 12-13 with big eyes dying to race wondering what was coming. I have been let down. I LOVE the 450 bikes though. They have all hit the nail on the head with the 450F's. I know the 450's end up being faster BUT it takes so much more money that the industry is cutting its own throat. When I started a 250R and LT250R with a pipe was competitive and a Banshee was the **** if you could ride it. Now C-class has $20,000 450's. It puts new meaning to "having to grow up".

you can still go out and buy a 250r, banshee or 500...IMO the 450s really are killing the sport. Its sad to think where this sport is going. We now have 6-8 450s to choose from...and none will bring back the feeling of the 250r :D

as far as the thumpers being competetive to the 2 strokes, i dont think it will ever happen. Yes you have 450s that can make 50-60 hp but they do not last long, and are still underpowered when compared to the banshees, LTs and old Rs

[TWILES]

My wife took a job at a Yamaha/Suzuki dealer and the first thing that poped into my mind was getting another 500 since parts would be cheaper. I told her to have the parts guys look up a few things I assumed I would need for a "restoration" and half of the stuff is totally discontinued. I've heard the same thing about the 250Quadracers and a lot of the 250R stuff is no longer available. I've watched races from the past and present on the same track and the 450's end up being faster in the upper-ranks. The classes from B down don't look any different to me. They just sound different. I agree about the feel of a 250R and ANY 2-stroke for that matter. Back then it was like getting your first piece of *** every time you got on a different bike. We bought our 04 450R 7 months after I sold my Banshee. I was really excited until I got it home and rode it and realized that I had by-passed that when I was 15 when I went from a Warrior to a CGR built 500. I've ridden other 450R's with major to minor mods and Yamaha's the same way and other than it sitting a little different, its the same thing. I even got to ride a BRAND NEW LTR450 when they got one at my wife's work. They put the Cherry Bomb, full Yoshi pipe, and took the lid off the airbox.....40hp and it was OK until you straighten it up and nail and there is nothing there. It turned on a dime and took off good until you went to rev it out and nothing. I was let down one more time, or maybe I just expect too much. Jump on a 450 bike and it obvious.

Originally posted by Honda86
you can still go out and buy a 250r, banshee or 500...IMO the 450s really are killing the sport. Its sad to think where this sport is going. We now have 6-8 450s to choose from...and none will bring back the feeling of the 250r :D

as far as the thumpers being competetive to the 2 strokes, i dont think it will ever happen. Yes you have 450s that can make 50-60 hp but they do not last long, and are still underpowered when compared to the banshees, LTs and old Rs

450's killing the sport!? Without 450s, the racing scene wouldn't be how it is today. There would be no WPSA, no ESPN, no factory support, no money at all in pro racing, no KTM, no Can- Am. Just boring 400s.
BMW is entering the dirtbike market, imagine if BMW makes a 450.
You should be thanking the 450s.

the 450s are killing the sport because of the cost. It costs so much to own a 450 and keep it in top shape compared to a 2 stroke. I would have much rather see quad with a RM250, YZ250, Cr250 powered quads....etc

With the cost of this sport going up so much alot of poorer familly cant compete very well...how many 450s are there now? 7? 8?...its getting stupid...If any company ever releases a 250+cc PV quad, it will sell like mad

Yea, sure two strokes are cheaper. But then you gotta spend all the money on them to compete with four strokes. Don't believe me? Go to your local motocross track and watch a race. Same with the youth production class. The 300ex wreck blasters. Sure some two strokes win hear and there, but in the long run its cheaper to get a 450 and throw a pipe on it.

i dont want to see BMW make a 450...:rolleyes:

There is already enough 450s, you got, yamaha, kawi, suzuki, honda,KTM, Can am, ATK, and now rumors of others....by 2008 or 09 there will be 7 or 8 450s to choose from, and i will still be wanting a 330R for the track or a 420PV shee for the dunes

it is not cheaper to get a 450 and throw a pipe on it...to keep it up it costs too much.....the 4 strokes r killing the sport because they are limiting who can race. the famillys that dont make 100grand a year cant afford to buy a 7-8G new quad, then shell out a few grand for mods and a few grand to go race...There should be atleast an option for 250 2 strokers, or 300 2 stroke quads...IMO i would much rather see a new 250 2 stroke quad then a 250 4 stroke quad...

[honduh440]

honda86 you have lost your mind .. i hope u dont speak out loud at local tracks about ATV's

nothing wrong with prefering a motor that make the same HP that will last longer and cheaper to maintain

Two strokes are dead. Four strokes make more usable power. Most of the two stroke bikes are being discontinued anyway. Plus, I don't want my quad sounding like a weed wacker.

i dont want my quad sounding like a never ending fart....2 strokes are not dead...they are becoming less popular because of the AMA rules. 2 stroke still make more power then a 4 stroke, its non debatable

[mikeB]

Talk about OLDSCHOOL

[400exrider707]

I wouldn't say four strokes are literally killing the sport. They are bringing the sport back IMO. However they do cost a ton more to maintain and race, but, to be honest, I dont see any less people at the tracks, everyone is still there spending the money. Either racers these days make a lot more money, or they are all in credit card debt up to their ears. I know it took me a long time to save money to buy used parts off of this site to get my 450R where it is today.

[440bigborekit]

ok honda guy you gotta get out of the past man and move on the 2 strokes are done and are not coming back 4 strokes took over its a wrap bro after next year i bet nobody will make a 2 stroke and the reliabiliy issue are you crazy put me on a 125 and my 250f i guarentee ill blow the 2 stroke up so quick it wouldnt be funny 4 strokes are where its at they pull from the bottom up no waiting for the "powerband" woo-hoo, ride a factory built 450f and tell me 4 strokes dont have the power 2 strokes have.

[chris46250r]

I bet nobody will ever see a 20 year old 450 bringing twice or more than it cost new.

[m.h.s.c.#527]

Originally posted by Honda86
you can still go out and buy a 250r, banshee or 500...IMO the 450s really are killing the sport. Its sad to think where this sport is going. We now have 6-8 450s to choose from...and none will bring back the feeling of the 250r :D

as far as the thumpers being competetive to the 2 strokes, i dont think it will ever happen. Yes you have 450s that can make 50-60 hp but they do not last long, and are still underpowered when compared to the banshees, LTs and old Rs

name 6-8 450s please because all i can think of is 450r, yfz,
lt-r,kfx,can-am and thats not even out yet and thats only 5

[TWILES]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
I wouldn't say four strokes are literally killing the sport. They are bringing the sport back IMO. However they do cost a ton more to maintain and race, but, to be honest, I dont see any less people at the tracks, everyone is still there spending the money. Either racers these days make a lot more money, or they are all in credit card debt up to their ears.
I think they are atleast HERE where I am. I don't really see any less people, just not the same ones at every event. Weekend warriors are about it aside from the millionheirs and very high-paid parented. The economy drove the racers here because thats what most of the racer's/racer's family's income depended on. My dad was a masonry contractor. He's dead now and I took over and believe me...its not good. The "credit-debt" is noticable too. Almost EVERY ONE of the young kinds who started in 04 have dropped out because their bikes broke and they can't fix them.

Honda86....I'm with you dude...anyone who can argue doesn't remember what it WAS like or was born between 1986 and 199?.
Its like telling a punk kid what its means to "be a man". I tried my best to talk to a kid I watched grow up and he's hooked on a bunch of different drugs and just got out of jail. But didn't know what I was talking about. Try talking to these idiots about Banshee's if you want a GOOD argument.

440 big bore, i have rode the 450s, Ive rode a fully worked RMz450 bike and a YFZ 450....both has pipes, cam mods, etc...and at the ice races guess what won?? yup the old CR500s ;)

I say it is hurting the sport because everyone is on these expensive 4 strokes and it isnt really fair to the average joe riding a 94 RM 125...

IMO they should work it like this....a 125 class, a 250 class (2s and 4s) and a 450 class (with the option of running a 250 2 stroke)

At the local track around here a guy on a YZ250 seems to be the man to beat, but thats mostly all about the rider.

2 strokes are not outdated and are not dead, just less popular because of the rule changes that were made to shove these 4 strokes down everyones throats. If you honestly think these 4 strokes are here for performance reasons, you kidding yourself. :devil: And yes i will say a 2 stroke does make more power, just compare a CR 250 Vs a CRF250

all the 450s, obviously the big 4, (honda, kawi, suzuki, and yamaha) then you got can-am and KTM thats 6, add ATK, thats 7 for sure, still with rumors of artic cat and now i guess BMW wants some action also??

Anyways you got a lil more then 1/2 a dozen 450s out there now...but they all want to handle like the old single honda 250r

Originally posted by Honda86


I say it is hurting the sport because everyone is on these expensive 4 strokes and it isnt really fair to the average joe riding a 94 RM 125...


And yes i will say a 2 stroke does make more power, just compare a CR 250 Vs a CRF250

All you talk about is how much more money the 4 strokes are.. 07 YZF450 is $6999. 07 YZ250 is $6299. Honestly, if your a racer looking for a new bike, the $700 more for a four stroke shouldn't even cross your mind. If you want to be competitive, buy a four stroke.

Your comparing totally different bikes. Like a CR 125 VS a XR125. Sure the 2 stroke might have more power. But the four stroke has more usable power.
I forgot what magazine it was in, but there was an article saying than on a supercross track the four strokes can take the inside line of a turn and clear the triple right after it. While a 2 stroke HAS to go on the out side to clear the triple. It happens at the local races all the time. 4 strokes can take inside or out side and can clear anything out of a turn. 2 strokes have to take the outside, unless your like pro.
But back to quads. 450s arnt killing the sport. More people are racing now than ever. Thank you 450s.

oh anything new now is basically a rip off, dont get me wrong on that. Especially MX bikes, they loose value like crazy.


as far as quads, i feel the sport was going to explode soon anyways, no matter if they brought a 450 motor into a quad frame or not. If they didnt bring the 450 motor into the quad frame the 250rs would still be as hot as they were in previous years. But look at it like this...When was the last major 2 stroke quad brought out that had changes?? you would have to go abck to a 1992 LT 250r, witch is one of the lightest full size quads ever made! Now just imagine a 265cc, aluminum frame, fuel injected, powervalve 2 stroke....it would eat up the 450s easy and would bring this sport to an even higher level because it would attract more people...And you wouldnt have to change the oil after every ride, and imagine, it would start on the first kick :eek:


I beleive there should be a mix of 2 stroke and 4 stroke, it would only make quad racing even more rich...They really need to offer a 250, 265 or bigger 2 stroke

[deathman53]

I like the new 4 strokes due to the crazy low end power and easy to ride power, but the maintence costs are killing me. Oil change every other ride, valves ~30 hours(and its not cheap either), some of them are efi, so you need a contoller to change the jetting, and the valve trains on them don't last long(also expensive the fix). I hav a pv 250r, its quite a ride, its also not hard to ride. I will agree, the 4 strokes are easier to ride and can take the inside lines a 2 stroke can't. I like my 2 strokes for alot of stuff, but the 4 strokes go for tight mx tracks and woods riding. The 2 strokes are for open mx tracks. I am rebuilding my hybrid crf450r for the very reason, as its better on tight tracks.

[KB Motorsports]

Originally posted by Honda86
you can still go out and buy a 250r, banshee or 500...IMO the 450s really are killing the sport. Its sad to think where this sport is going. We now have 6-8 450s to choose from...and none will bring back the feeling of the 250r :D

as far as the thumpers being competetive to the 2 strokes, i dont think it will ever happen. Yes you have 450s that can make 50-60 hp but they do not last long, and are still underpowered when compared to the banshees, LTs and old Rs

450's last long around here.. Must be bad gas where you live ;)

[440bigborekit]

Originally posted by Honda86
440 big bore, i have rode the 450s, Ive rode a fully worked RMz450 bike and a YFZ 450....both has pipes, cam mods, etc...and at the ice races guess what won?? yup the old CR500s ;)

I say it is hurting the sport because everyone is on these expensive 4 strokes and it isnt really fair to the average joe riding a 94 RM 125...

IMO they should work it like this....a 125 class, a 250 class (2s and 4s) and a 450 class (with the option of running a 250 2 stroke)

At the local track around here a guy on a YZ250 seems to be the man to beat, but thats mostly all about the rider.

2 strokes are not outdated and are not dead, just less popular because of the rule changes that were made to shove these 4 strokes down everyones throats. If you honestly think these 4 strokes are here for performance reasons, you kidding yourself. :devil: And yes i will say a 2 stroke does make more power, just compare a CR 250 Vs a CRF250

ok you rode a 450 on the ice that takes alot of talent ride a factory not a cammed 450 on a track and hold on anybody can go in a stright line man. oooo and the 250 class is both 2 and 4 stroke mabie you should do some reshurch before you type. your stuck in the 80s do you wear a mullet and tight pants too?

i havnt been able to get to the MX track this year, i knew they were considering it being 250, 2s and 4s but i wasnt sure if they ever went through with it. Yeah ride a piped/cammed 450 bike on the ice, they acctually got going pretty good, but not as good as the old CR500s...

I rode a couple of the 450 quads and was very disapointed. I cant beleive people spend so much on them. but hey everyones different..

Id put my 87 shee up agenst your 440 anyday of the week...;)

[440bigborekit]

umm number one i dont ride quads that old i ride bikes i have a 2007 kx450f and a PC crf250r and i do think the 450 quads arent anything special and you didnt ride a 450 BIKE THATS THE ONE WITH TWO WHEELS ON A MOTOCROSS TRACK then tell me they dont got pull.

[stocktires]

Wow, this turned out to be a mature thread. :rolleyes:

#1. Two-strokes still rock. You young guys dont understand the old days. 250R's will always be the sickest quads in history. They are still rediculously competitive for being 20 year old technology.

#2. Thumpers aren't killing the sport, they are just taking it in a new direction. If you like that direction, great! If you don't, well get over it or go home because it's not changing anytime soon.

[deathman53]

it sad to see the 250r's go, but the sport is growing, can't bash that much. It would be nice to see the 250r's run in sepeate class ridden by pro's. I also would like to see trikes raced in vintage class, but current ama rules don't allow for that, I and many others would show up to races and run a vintage class for trikes. Right now I am building a race trike now, I hope to be racing that a few times this year in Ohio in the trike classes the Cra offers. I currently ride on mx tracks with quads and hold my own pretty well, depite being in 3 wheels.

[deathman53]

it sad to see the 250r's go, but the sport is growing, can't bash that much. It would be nice to see the 250r's run in sepeate class ridden by pro's. I also would like to see trikes raced in vintage class, but current ama rules don't allow for that, I and many others would show up to races and run a vintage class for trikes. Right now I am building a race trike now, I hope to be racing that a few times this year in Ohio in the trike classes the Cra offers. I currently ride on mx tracks with quads and hold my own pretty well, depite being in 3 wheels.

i have rode a YFZ450 DIRT BIKE. and also a 2005 RMZ450 DIRT BIKE. They did alright, but not worth 8K in my book (after buying the pipe and etc) I have also rode KX500s and the 450s are nothing like the old 500s...ride a CR or KX 500 and tell me those bikes dont pull :D

Back to quads, it is sad to see alot of 450 riders disrepect the 2 strokes and especially the 250r. The 250r will never go out of style, i just wont happen. I just dont like how the sport is becoming just for people that can afford the expensive LT shocks and wider A arms, etc because it limits the people that can pay that much to go racing. Thats why i think if they offered some 250 2 strokes again, then they would attract more people and it would grow even more because 2 strokes are alot less expensive...not to mention make people better riders....any 2 stroke guy can hop on a 4 stroke and ride, but not every 4 stroke guy can hop on a banshee or 250r and work the clutch in the cornors and tight trails. IMO i think you will see some very bad riders coming up that have only been on 150s, 250f's and 450s....

[blasterfreak99]

Originally posted by nofearrider1
All you talk about is how much more money the 4 strokes are.. 07 YZF450 is $6999. 07 YZ250 is $6299. Honestly, if your a racer looking for a new bike, the $700 more for a four stroke shouldn't even cross your mind. If you want to be competitive, buy a four stroke.

Your comparing totally different bikes. Like a CR 125 VS a XR125. Sure the 2 stroke might have more power. But the four stroke has more usable power.
I forgot what magazine it was in, but there was an article saying than on a supercross track the four strokes can take the inside line of a turn and clear the triple right after it. While a 2 stroke HAS to go on the out side to clear the triple. It happens at the local races all the time. 4 strokes can take inside or out side and can clear anything out of a turn. 2 strokes have to take the outside, unless your like pro.
But back to quads. 450s arnt killing the sport. More people are racing now than ever. Thank you 450s.

yes you are right brand new the price isnt that much different and it shouldnt sway you in your decision but 2 strokes are a lot cheaper to mod and dont cost as much to maintain.

and actually your comparison is more far fetched than his (i dont think his is far fetched at all though). an xr125 is a TRAIL/BEGINNERS BIKE and a cr125 is a MOTOCROSS RACE BIKE. the crf250 and the cr250 are both MOTOCROSS BIKES. you are just further proving his point that you have to double the cc's on a 4 stroke to get around the same amount of power of a well built 2 stroke.

i agree with honda 86

Here's my experiences with two strokes from yesterday at the track. My cousin brought 2 blasters to ride around on. And buy the end of the day, it blew up. real reliable, considering it was an 06.

its obvious you havnt had much experience with 2 strokes. I coudl tell you all kinds of nasty storys about 4 strokes AND 2 strokes..but usually in the end, the 2 stroke owner is out a couple hundred, while the 4 stroke owner is usually out a couple THOUSAND...and are still going slower, with a boring powerband

[Dinner]

Originally posted by nofearrider1
Here's my experiences with two strokes from yesterday at the track. My cousin brought 2 blasters to ride around on. And buy the end of the day, it blew up. real reliable, considering it was an 06.

Guessing factory jetting?, or did he actually re-jet and plug chop to make sure he wont blow it up?




I run my Shee hard for hill climbs and running roads. 2nd gear, almost WOT up the hills all day and shee hasn't blown up yet. Not saying this to start another argument like this whole thread has done. Just saying some people buy 2 strokes and do not know how to take care of them. :eek:

I for one love the smell and sound of a 2 stroke. People say 2 strokes are dead...sure companies are stopping production of them. But they will never die out, look at all the parts that are available for the old 2 strokes, pages upon pages of aftermarket parts for these old girls.

Another thing that gets to me is people like some of my friends. They used to talk crap about my Shee, saying "oh my quad has new technology, it is faster than yours, yours is what 20 years old?" Umm yea mine is, and guess what, it can still produce more power, and go faster for cheaper than your new toy.

Racing is going all 4 stroke due to the new rules, etc that have been placed. Sure the track will be filled with 4 stroke quads and bikes. But at least our old girls will be out having fun in the sand :devil:

[deathman53]

Originally posted by nofearrider1
Here's my experiences with two strokes from yesterday at the track. My cousin brought 2 blasters to ride around on. And buy the end of the day, it blew up. real reliable, considering it was an 06.

What did his air filter look like?? or did it have one at all???? Was the oil injection functioning or was it blocked off and premix used?? How was the jetting??? There is alot of stuff that could be going on here. My 250r's have been very reilable, they are kept clean, air filter always changed, oil changed often, jetting is on the rich side. I do a top end in them every year and they aren't needed to tbe done at all. One person I ride with has 300 hours on this 250r topend, its still reading ~220 psi. My friend has some problems with his atc250r, never the less, he almost never washes it, hardly maintains it, rides in some sloppy stuff and then he complains of how his brake calipers seize up, bearing carriers don't move, used pump gas on a high compression motor, he rode it for some time with a broken counter balance holder(with screws up your timing also) and complains its problems. These are rider induced problems. With the right maintence a 2 stroke is very reilable and it doesn't take much to do at all. I have more problems with my 4 strokes, valve train went in my crf450r, along with the timing chain, valve guides, springs, piston(hit the valves), all together is cost near $1500(includng labor), the only things of the top end that remained was the head, cam, clyinder and valve cover. I could do 7-8 250r topends for that price, with one being a complete rebuild(bottom end). Your cousin must be very bad at maintaining a bike.

My 02 banshee has alot of hours on it, and the only time it even had a new top end was when i wanted aftermarket pistons, witch ws the same time i set my jugs out to get ported...My 87 shee i can track back to the day is was bought (i knew the 2 previous owners) and that top end hasnt been replaced since the early 90s. And is still put that 87 up agenst a 07 450 any day :D ...did i mention i got the 60+ hp shee for 1300 bucks?? :D

[Ryan]

As far as reliability goes for both, its really how you to care of them.... Do your oil changes, clean the filters, jetting, ect. I've owned a blaster in the pass. I toke care of it, but beat the crap out of it. I gave it everything it could handle, and it just couldn't handle anymore. I blew it up once, had a bunch of carb problems, and other little stupid minor stuff. Fixing it was cheep, though.

Then I sold it, and bought a 2001 416ex from a member on this site. Paid 2,600 for it, and he told me he was gonna get the title from the original owner before him and send it to me. I was to stupid and it seemed like a sweet deal with all the aftermarket parts on it. So we both met halfway to pick up the quad..

First week, Not only did it blow up, but the piston caught the sleeve and dragged it up and down the cylinder. Finally everything completely locked up. Paid over 1,000 $ just to get that fixed. Got it back, 2 weeks later, carb problems. Broke just basically fell off..... This hole quad was loose and falling apart.

My point is, the guy who owned this atv before me, or maybe whoever he stole it from.... beat the hell out of it, raced it..... KILLED IT. I couldn't afford to dump anymore money into it.


I personally like riding the 2-strokes over the 4's. I love the way the power comes on, and the sweet sound....

[deathman53]

I can't stand how these 4 stroke guys talk about bad 2 stroke reilablity, its all the owner!!!!!!!!! The same guy who can't keep a 2 stroke running, proabably can't keep a 4 stroke running either. Everytime I wash my bike, I next tighten up the every bolt, lube the chain, rotate the carrier a few times, every few times I take off the brake calipers and lube the sliders, ~every 6 months I take out the the swiner bolt and lube that, keep on top of every little problem. If you just start your bike, then run it to death, you are gonna kill your top end quickly, 2 stroke or 4 stroke. If you use cheap premix on your 2 stroke, cheap oil in your 4 stroke, hardly change your oil(s), lean jetting, dirty airfilters, your engine won't last long. The guys that say the 2 strokes don't last probably beat the piss out of them and don't let them warm up. With 2 strokes, don't hold them wot for long, they need to have the revs varied.

[250Renvy]

Originally posted by nofearrider1
Here's my experiences with two strokes from yesterday at the track. My cousin brought 2 blasters to ride around on. And buy the end of the day, it blew up. real reliable, considering it was an 06.


This could happen with any quad - if you forget oil.


I think this disscussion is like bashing your head against a wall. The newbies don't know what it was like before and bash what they don't know, the older guys know it when it was more pure and wish they could have that again.

The new fourstrokes have brought new life back into racing, just a different life and more $$$$

I think there will be a lot of dead 450's in a few years when as like everything else we are turning into a throw away society so instead of rebuilding for 2k just buy a new one. They'll discontinue all the 2-stroke parts and you'll have to part out a 2-stroke once it's dead too then the factories will win because everybody will have to buy new machines.

Ever see the movie "Robots"?

Also, old skateboarders and surfers and snowboarders will say the same thing about their sports before they went corporate. Things are usually better before they are popular because it gets crowded.

i agree with 250r envy...i also beleive there will be a ton of dead 450s in the next couple of years because they will blow up and itll be so expensive to fix, why bother? So you will have to go out and spend 6-8 grand on a new quad again... I bet those companys hate seeing all those 80s quads still running strong and beating their "new" biggest and baddest quad. I picked up a 1300 dollar banshee and it has beaten every quad it came across so far, including the 450s and the new rappy 700...

[deathman53]

Originally posted by 250Renvy
This could happen with any quad - if you forget oil.



I think there will be a lot of dead 450's in a few years when as like everything else we are turning into a throw away society so instead of rebuilding for 2k just buy a new one.

there already is dead 450's, just like cannondale quads, there is many without motors to them. Did these guys ever replace there valve train parts, you wil go broke replacing just that, lets not think of the other parts you will take out with it, IE: if the piston breaks causing it to lodge in the crank and destroying the cases too.

deathman i had this exact conversation with a salesman at my local dealer and he thought i was stupid for saying these 450s are goig to be junk in 5-7 years

[deathman53]

thats because they are paid to say the new stuff is the best. As you seen in my other post $1500 in a new valve train, cam chain, tensionar, piston, valve guides, srprings, valves, labor. How many 250r's can you re-do for that price????? I have them, but my 250r's are far cheaper to maintain and easier. I can't do anything to a 450's motor, except the cluth and maybe ingition. For the the 250r I can do everything, but splitting the bottom end.

i have split the bottom end on my banshee and replaced the trans, but i have never done the bottom end on a 250r. For 1500 you could rebuild 8-10 250r top ends... :D

Thats what i am talking about when i say 450s are hurting the sport, becasue it is becoming more of a wealthy persons sport. They shoudl offer a updated 265 2 stroke racer for the people that still want them, and/or dont want to buy a 450

[quad janern]

i agree with you "Honda86"

it would be nice if some new 2 strokers came up, even i ride a 450r.

i was going to buy a 250r instead of the 450r, but i needed to import a 250r to Norway, and then i take the risk to buy a 250r that is totally raced out, and the worst, a screwed engine.

thats why i got me a 450r.
but i will buy me a 250r one time!!

is there any interest in the gas gas 300 2 stroke ?

[54warrior]

Originally posted by quad janern
is there any interest in the gas gas 300 2 stroke ?

For a 2-stroke to be successful, it will have to be made by one of the big four.

[Ryan]

I thought there was a deadline to discontinue 2-strokes in 06? Isn't that the main reason they stopped pushing 2-strokes? It was those damn hippies fault........ "2-strokes produce to much pollution" :rolleyes: .

2 stroke bikes are still around because of the loop hole "cloed course comp" but any 2 stroke sled had to meet certain emmisson with ski doo did back in 03 i beleive. The new 2 stroke waveruners made the emissions too...they can desighn a new 2 stroke quad, it just is going to have to smoke less then the banshee or 250r.

I have heard rumors that they are going to get even stricter with the emissions. I think its 2012 that any bike (2 stroke OR 4 stroke) if it is carbed then it will not pass...just a rumor i heard, so dont quote me on that

new 2 stroke technology....i think one day it will come into the dirt bike and ATV world

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viWhxvo6DLk

[Ryan]

Thats pretty neat.

I just don't think they will ever use another 2-stroke in a atv. Just my opinion.

It would be nice if they would give us the option, though..