Front Suspension/Steering/Brakes

[ThePhantomRider]

Only 6 hours till part 3 is available. What do you guys think they have done in this episode that will be groundbreaking?? Revolutionary?? or Evolutionary??

And don't say power steering....though a mini-rack and pinion setup would be cool...

TPR

[hsr]

Just hope the front shocks are of good enough quality that they wouldn't need replaced for racing applications. And is this thing going to be 50 inches wide?

[GE4x4]

My idea of what we will see, is no less then 10" travel up front with fully adjustable HPG shocks. Some kind of damper so bump steer will basicly be gone. And a-arms with caster adjustments. Brakes will be dual caliper with a wave type roter. And what we do know, ITP tires and wheels. I feel the DS450 will be about the same width as most 450 at about 46"-47" wide. Having it near 50 really shrinks the market as most are trail riders.

[troutman561]

So I saw the new video, 46in wide, all aluminum cast a-arms, and im def. impressed with the way the brakes are set up, but they did not mention the brand of shocks or anything about them, must not be anything special:ermm:

[One_Bad_400]

ya... they didnt say a word abotut he shocks... and dotn have them in any of the pics...

[ThePhantomRider]

KYB HPG Shocks with adjustable rebound and compression with threaded spring tension.

Front wheel travel is 9.5 inches.

The whole front end is over 3 lbs lighter than the next best, Honda and 5 lbs lighter than the heaviest 450 front end.

Brakes are by Willwood, renound brake builders.


TPR

[weewane]

I thought they were forged alluminum a-arms not cast alluminum.

but ya the bike is looking very impressive I may have to get me one of them.

[GE4x4]

The a-arms are forged and not cast. Much stronger. There just like the Outlaw rear a-arms, very strong and light.

[hsr]

Ehhh, 46" wide???

[troutman561]

Oops I did say cast, my mistake, I was tired, didnt listen well enough...

[ThePhantomRider]

Yeah, the 46" range is about standard for the 450's...aside from the Suzuki. Again, if they are the lightest weight , most centralized and probably lowest in frame COG, a 46" bike may handle as well as a 48" bike.

That said, when you add +2 arms, with how the steering is already setup further in the wheel, the arm will be more like a +3.

Keep this in mind as it's been proven on their desert racers from the DS to the Renegade, they used this design in racing already...if you see the wheels Epic has used the center has been pushed all the way out to accomplish this with exsisting tech and it works awesome.

Sigh and Dirtywheels will still find the YFZ to be better...

Oh and did anyone notice that the suspension graphic they kept comparing it too looked very YFZ like??


TPR

[hsr]

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
Yeah, the 46" range is about standard for the 450's...aside from the Suzuki. Again, if they are the lightest weight , most centralized and probably lowest in frame COG, a 46" bike may handle as well as a 48" bike.

That said, when you add +2 arms, with how the steering is already setup further in the wheel, the arm will be more like a +3.

Keep this in mind as it's been proven on their desert racers from the DS to the Renegade, they used this design in racing already...if you see the wheels Epic has used the center has been pushed all the way out to accomplish this with exsisting tech and it works awesome.

Sigh and Dirtywheels will still find the YFZ to be better...

Oh and did anyone notice that the suspension graphic they kept comparing it too looked very YFZ like??


TPR

So all of this high tech aluminum front end is basically useless to anyone that is going to mx this thing. People will actually be adding weight back on to this thing when they replace the a-arms to widen it out. B/C you know that no aftermarket mfg. is going to be able to produce wider a-arms with the same technology and lightweight. They could have at least made it 48".

[TWILES]

Same here. Thats like Yamaha using alluminum upper a-arms. They need to have longer a-arms for it like the GYTR for the Yamaha made of alluminum or they just waisted their time if they are looking for a good MX bike. I'd say that the whole bike is ballanced out to a certain extent and when you swop out the stock a-arms for longer, heavier steal one's you are going to throw it all off unless you add the same ratio to the back.

[troutman561]

Originally posted by hsr
So all of this high tech aluminum front end is basically useless to anyone that is going to mx this thing. People will actually be adding weight back on to this thing when they replace the a-arms to widen it out. B/C you know that no aftermarket mfg. is going to be able to produce wider a-arms with the same technology and lightweight. They could have at least made it 48".

So they should have just made it with no technology or not make it anything special so the people like me who dont race MX can get the crap? hmmm

[xsr_racing28c]

I think that aftermarket companies WILL be able to produce lightweight arms with the same strength as the stockers. I would venture to guess you'll be seeing more and more high tech parts come in 08 to keep up with the technology of the manufacturers.

I am proud of myself...I called it, I predicted that they would use kyb/hpg shocks... wahoo..

~Jay

[rebelbanshee]

perhaps can am will produce wider forged arms for MXers. If they are serious about there technology and having a race team i think they would have to.

[ThePhantomRider]

Originally posted by hsr
So all of this high tech aluminum front end is basically useless to anyone that is going to mx this thing. People will actually be adding weight back on to this thing when they replace the a-arms to widen it out. B/C you know that no aftermarket mfg. is going to be able to produce wider a-arms with the same technology and lightweight. They could have at least made it 48".

Perhaps, but consider this, how many people are gonna MX this thing? Desert race? Woods guys may keep stock width.

Manufacturers can't sit there and go, well there will be 20% of our buyers that will be wanting to race, so 20% of our product will need to be wider.

At 46 inches with the way the front is, it will handle like a 48" bike. I have ridden a DS 650 with the same concept using custom rims to give better steering, and it handled like it was wider than it really was, huge difference.

And even if they add a couple pounds of weight with aftermarket stuff...so is everyone else and they are already at a weight defecit.

TPR

[54warrior]

IMHO, I don't see the aftermarket making forged a-arms for this thing. The "balance" issue was brought up. How many pros are running stock rear swingarms??? They will continue to mfg. the steel a-arms and swingarms just like they always have. The cost to make forged a-arms is expensive and I'm sorry, but Lonestar, Laeger's, etc. aren't going to invest in something like that when they will sell just as many parts using the technology they currently have.

[OutlawBill]

The best thing about thoes A-Arms you will not have to buy EPIC A-arms for it. ;)

[ThePhantomRider]

Bla Bla Bla....Revisionist history rhetoric....

At least now with Fox shocks you don't have to run oversized springs to keep the shocks from bottoming out...just go max PSI.

TPR

[54warrior]

Saw these pics on the main page. Those hubs are awesome and I love how the caliper is inside the rotor-pretty slick.

Also, I noticed that it has grease fittings!!! What a blessing that is. I think most mfg's have forgotten what they are!
http://www.atvriders.com/images/brp/2008brpcanamds450atv/2008brpcanamds450aluminumaaarms.jpg
http://www.atvriders.com/images/brp/2008brpcanamds450atv/2008brpcanamds450invertedcaliper.jpg

[DEVINF450R]

Guys who trail ride can do so on pretty much any trail with a 48-49" width quad... and the XC guys can narrow them down, they buy aftermarket a-arms anyhow. they should have an adj rear axle if they are claiming to be such a good RACE company....it is called a RACE quad. Therefore it would make sense not to cater to Joe Blow, hey lets get a 6-pak rack for our first accessory, road riding, I wear a Fox t-shirt b/c I have a sport quad retard. Quad racing is getting very big and it will be a BIG selling point for the manufacturers, and MX just so happens to be the most popular form of ATV racing. That is why you see so may Suzuki's out there after only one year of being released. I wouldn't call a bike that is mx race ready crap either:macho

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by DEVINF450R
Guys who trail ride can do so on pretty much any trail with a 48-49" width quad... and the XC guys can narrow them down, they buy aftermarket a-arms anyhow. they should have an adj rear axle if they are claiming to be such a good RACE company....it is called a RACE quad. Therefore it would make sense not to cater to Joe Blow, hey lets get a 6-pak rack for our first accessory, road riding, I wear a Fox t-shirt b/c I have a sport quad retard. Quad racing is getting very big and it will be a BIG selling point for the manufacturers, and MX just so happens to be the most popular form of ATV racing. That is why you see so may Suzuki's out there after only one year of being released. I wouldn't call a bike that is mx race ready crap either:macho

I don't know what kind of trails you're used to but I know a lot of trail riders and XC racers make some pretty tight squeezes at 46".

I'm very excited for this and I agree that they should offer a more MX-based version, at least with longer a-arms and axle.