The left HATES America - here's proof

[sandmanblue]

The American Empire is Failing – A Good Thing for America and the World.....

What Libs Really Want (http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/22672)


Excerpts from the page:

"Certainly since George W. Bush stole the elections of 2000 and 2004"

"it is the hope and wet-dream of the Neo-Conservatives and their allies to make the 21st Century into their own. Hence, the invasions of the Middle East for oil"

"I do claim that the American Empire is falling."

It goes on and on about this self proclaim expert and his "book".


It is just disgusting that people like this live in the US and plot for it's downfall. They WANT the US to fail and become a 3rd world poverty stricken country where socialism and dictatorship are forced on to the people. That is why Hugo Chavez is their hero.

Wake up people, this stuff isn't freedom of speech, it is treason. It's not opinions, it is plotting the downfall of the US.....

[NorCalRacer]

That only speaks for that person, and anyone stupid enough to buy his book. The fact that you think he speaks for anyone other than himself is laughable. I would have never even heard of this nutjob unless you posted this here, so how many people can he truly represent? There's always a wacko to put on parade, but now you think the left is "plotting the downfall of the US" because of this book? Come on....

[250r4life]

im with ya... i've lived in another country for the better part of 2 years, and although there is a lot of backwards stuff going on here in the US, i sure wouldnt want to live anywhere else...

a lot of these idiots need to go live in another country to gain some gratitude for what we have here...

and its not appropriate for me to write here what i want to do to those who disrespect the soldiers fighting to maintain our freedoms... nor what i want to do to those who come here with a mexican flag, especially with it positioned above the American flag... if mexico is so great, go back!!! and dont disrespect the many men who have died for this great country by flying the flag of another...

if you want to start a thread like this, be prepared to hear an opinion different then yours....

and here is one: i think that it's you that needs to wake and smell what bush and his cronies are cooking...:rolleyes: ...you can't tell me that over half of this country is fed up with their crap because they are all hippies or liberals or socialist!! what really stinks is that now that the dems have the house and the senate, we don't know if they are after bush and his "nazis" because they should be, or because of politics...we know what the repubs will say.....you need to realize that if you ain't the "upper" class bush and cheney don't give a poop about you....i agree it is like a fascist regime......the whitehouse throws our rights out the door under the disguise of protecting us...i say B.S. ....and because i feel this way, doesn't make me "un-patriotic" or "un-american" or what ever catch phrase they use for the "sheep" that are straying from the flock...the only thing keeping this great country going is the great citizens in it!! it ain't bush and the people he has around him....:ermm:

[Robin Hood]

Originally posted by dlerch
if you want to start a thread like this, be prepared to hear an opinion different then yours....

and here is one: i think that it's you that needs to wake and smell what bush and his cronies are cooking...:rolleyes: ...you can't tell me that over half of this country is fed up with their crap because they are all hippies or liberals or socialist!! what really stinks is that now that the dems have the house and the senate, we don't know if they are after bush and his "nazis" because they should be, or because of politics...we know what the repubs will say.....you need to realize that if you ain't the "upper" class bush and cheney don't give a poop about you....i agree it is like a fascist regime......the whitehouse throws our rights out the door under the disguise of protecting us...i say B.S. ....and because i feel this way, doesn't make me "un-patriotic" or "un-american" or what ever catch phrase they use for the "sheep" that are straying from the flock...the only thing keeping this great country going is the great citizens in it!! it ain't bush and the people he has around him....:ermm:

Totally agree. Give it a few minutes and I'm sure we'll both be bashed for having a "stupid un-american communist opinion" or something ridiculous like that..

[fofity]

who's worse the ones cheering for the demise of the U.S. or the ones that are making it happen?

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republicans refused that this be shown in congress

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/White_House_opposes_military_pay_raise_0517.html
The White House has come out in opposition to a proposal by Congress to raise military pay by 3.5 percent, according to a report by Army Times.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/05/17/white-house-opposed-pay-raises-for-troopswidows-benefits/

http://alternet.org/story/51975/
78% of Americans believe their country to be headed in the wrong direction. Only 22% think the Bush administration's policies make sense, the lowest number on this question since October 1992, when George H. W. Bush was running for a second term

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/05/12/bill-moyers-on-the-true-costs-of-war/

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/12/world/middleeast/12oil.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Billions in Oil Missing in Iraq, U.S. Study Says
http://www.slate.com/id/2165980/
A guide to GOP scandals

Originally posted by 250r4life
im with ya... i've lived in another country for the better part of 2 years, and although there is a lot of backwards stuff going on here in the US, i sure wouldnt want to live anywhere else...

a lot of these idiots need to go live in another country to gain some gratitude for what we have here...

and its not appropriate for me to write here what i want to do to those who disrespect the soldiers fighting to maintain our freedoms... nor what i want to do to those who come here with a mexican flag, especially with it positioned above the American flag... if mexico is so great, go back!!! and dont disrespect the many men who have died for this great country by flying the flag of another...

i need to live right here...i grew up here, i pay taxes here, i've watched friends and family be buried here....i ain't going anywhere just because i disagree with the people that are destroying the great legacy of this country....

and just because this countrty is better than other countries, does not mean it can't be even better...if you want to settle that's up to you, but i refused to... based on comparisons!!

the great people who have, are, and will die for this country do so in the hopes that its great people have basic human rights...one of them is the right to speak freely...so for me speaking out, and disagreeing with the reasons this administration has given on why our military persons need to die in iraq is, in my mind, one thing i can give back to them for their sacrifices....and i assure you there is no disrespect in truly caring about our soldiers well being...

so much ***** goes on behind closed doors that none of us see, i dont know what to beleive. Even if we the people heard the truth about everythng, we couldnt change anything. The only thing that really matters in this world is a 5 letter word that starts with a M and end with a Y

[Outlaw 50]

Liberalism is quite simply a mental disorder!

Liberals just stand on their heads and tell the rest of us that we are upside down.

Originally posted by Outlaw 50
Liberalism is quite simply a mental disorder!

Liberals just stand on their heads and tell the rest of us that we are upside down.

whew...that's brilliant.. :rolleyes: ...now everything makes sense...that explains; iraq, the high gas prices, the super-riches' tax breaks....i was really questioning life's mysteries until now...:huh

[armoks]

Yea the Dem's are doing their part in helping with gas prices while Pelosi and Clinton are riding around with TWO cars everywhere they go. Pelosi has two suburbans and Clinton has a Crown Vic and a Mercury. They don't even know what gas prices are it's on you're taxes they ride on.

Pelosi never had to work for her money and neither did Clinton. They don't care about you either.

Come down and work with me for two weeks and you will have a totally different view on politics. Waste is on both sides!

Funny thing is all these people who blame Bush for everything that is happening but they don't see what Bill Clinton Fudged up in this country. North American Free Trade which stole thousands of jobs from us, not going after Bin Laden when he had the chance, Biggest cuts in military spending, and We lost more military during the Clinton admin then we lost in this war!

The Media is who puts out all the bad press to get ratings! Look at all sides and get the truth before making your opinions.

[DeerNuts]

Part of the greatness of our country rests in the mere fact that we can vehemently disagree without killing each other.

The idea is to reason things out. But reason often gets subverted to people's passions. Passions are good; passion in the absence of thought? Not so good. That's part of the problem here, and part of the reason more and more Americans are beginning to disagree with Bush: They have begun thinking again after the shock of 9/11... and are realizing things are a little skewed here and there.

Think about it. How else do you explain 90% approval ratings for war? Extreme nationalism, people united in the face of tragedy. Maybe now more and more people realize that basic rights and protections in our Constitution have been subverted, or at least certainly appear to be; and the justification thereof is the so-called War on Terror.

As more and more realize the War is probably at least somewhat facetious, Americans will come to their senses about things; so as a result partly, as Bush expands the rhetoric for the war, more and more will rise against it, so you have approval ratings in the toilet for Mr. Bush. Now indeed there is cause for concern about terror. But terrorism has always and will always be around. How do you declare all-out war against it? Whom do you fight exactly?

In short, how far can we extend Mr. Bush's arguments? If we make no difference between a terrorist organization and the state that harbors it, as regarding whom to call enemies, how do we decide how, why, and to what extent to respond to the threat? If we attack Iraq and Afghanistan, then why not N. Korea, Iran, rogue third-World states, and so-on?

Where does it all stop? What is the answer? Quite possibly there is no one singularly effective cure-all answer. That is why democracy needs to triumph so that no matter the course or where the answer leads us, at least all or those that care to at least will have had some say.

And JMHO, there is little difference between Republicans and Dems. They are moved around the chess board by only one player, and its not us.

[sandmanblue]

Originally posted by dlerch
whew...that's brilliant.. :rolleyes: ...now everything makes sense...that explains; iraq, the high gas prices, the super-riches' tax breaks....i was really questioning life's mysteries until now...:huh

Opened the playbook again eh, lerch?

If you can't defend the actions of the absolutely wacked out socialist left, then by all means Blame Bush for oil prices, throw in class warfare and LIE LIE LIE about the "super rich" getting tax breaks.

I will give you the opportunity to tell us all the exact percentage of "tax breaks" that ONLY applied to the "super rich" but didn't apply to everyone else that were put into place during Bush's term, and also the chance to educate us all on the economic impacts/benefits of taxing the crap out of the upper class.

Please - tell us how taxing the "rich" will HELP the rest of us. I will be listening quite intently...... You will need to cite historical examples of when the economy and employment has benefited by higher taxes on the wealthy.

I really can't wait to hear this - unless of course the only answer in your playbook is to ignore this request and toss in another page - might I suggest the "race card" as a good one to use?

[smr]

Originally posted by dlerch
if you want to start a thread like this, be prepared to hear an opinion different then yours....

and here is one: i think that it's you that needs to wake and smell what bush and his cronies are cooking...:rolleyes: ...you can't tell me that over half of this country is fed up with their crap because they are all hippies or liberals or socialist!! what really stinks is that now that the dems have the house and the senate, we don't know if they are after bush and his "nazis" because they should be, or because of politics...we know what the repubs will say.....you need to realize that if you ain't the "upper" class bush and cheney don't give a poop about you....i agree it is like a fascist regime......the whitehouse throws our rights out the door under the disguise of protecting us...i say B.S. ....and because i feel this way, doesn't make me "un-patriotic" or "un-american" or what ever catch phrase they use for the "sheep" that are straying from the flock...the only thing keeping this great country going is the great citizens in it!! it ain't bush and the people he has around him....:ermm:

Here we go again..it's half the internet verses dlerch.

I blame it on bill clinton and the breaks he gave the poor. We have to many people setting on thier buts drawing a check from the goverment and not working.

Originally posted by sandmanblue
Opened the playbook again eh, lerch?

If you can't defend the actions of the absolutely wacked out socialist left, then by all means Blame Bush for oil prices, throw in class warfare and LIE LIE LIE about the "super rich" getting tax breaks.

I will give you the opportunity to tell us all the exact percentage of "tax breaks" that ONLY applied to the "super rich" but didn't apply to everyone else that were put into place during Bush's term, and also the chance to educate us all on the economic impacts/benefits of taxing the crap out of the upper class.

Please - tell us how taxing the "rich" will HELP the rest of us. I will be listening quite intently...... You will need to cite historical examples of when the economy and employment has benefited by higher taxes on the wealthy.

I really can't wait to hear this - unless of course the only answer in your playbook is to ignore this request and toss in another page - might I suggest the "race card" as a good one to use?

http://www.ctj.org/html/gwb0602.htm
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Taxes/P94070.asp
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0115-05.htm

i'm not asking anybody to "tax" the rich unfairly....i'm asking that they pay their fair share. because if they don't who do you think picks up the slack?....pretty simple really it is all percentages....now understand that i didn't get these links from republican websites so i doubt you'll believe them, but here they are for all to see...if you want more i'll get them....

Originally posted by smr
Here we go again..it's half the internet verses dlerch.

I blame it on bill clinton and the breaks he gave the poor. We have to many people setting on thier buts drawing a check from the goverment and not working.

that's right "half", because the other half agrees with me....

[mephyst]

Originally posted by dlerch
that's right "half", because the other half agrees with me....

Hahahah. Good one. I have never jumped into these political threads really, because I hate arguing about politics, but I always read them and check up on you guys. You guys always crack me up, but I will say that I agree with things from everyone. Dlerch always seems to bring up good info though and isn't afraid to express his opinion, even though you SAME people seem to bash him 24/7.

[honda350r]

I am part of the other half !!

Originally posted by honda350r
I am part of the other half !!

you better be careful...the right doesn't like individual thinkers...it's better if you just walk around saying baaaaahhhh baaaahhhhh....and "we attacked iraq because of 9/11" ..."we attacked iraq because of 9/11"

[Rastus]

It's funny that we bring up these threads and talk about Individual freedoms, and not one person brings up the 2nd Amendment. :rolleyes:


It would be nice if we could place equal emphasis on the whole constitution, rather than the parts a few groups deem necessary. We've lost enough of our rights as it is. I can't think of very many things that I do daily that the government isn't connected to in some form or another. It seems like most of my actions have to be somebodies business.



Neither party has my vote at the moment, not one candidate am I interested in. The parties are too busy bickering amongst themselves and trying to keep a thumb over the other that nothing important is getting done. The speaker of the house thinks she can fly around the world and represent the U.S. to other foreign countries, which is NOT her job. We've got SC justice problems, the Exec. branch isn't a leading example, the government is growing and will only get worse if we elect a Dem. president, hand-outs and a big thank you to Illegal(Criminal) Immigrants, and the list goes on.

I can safely say there are many many things that BOTH parties have dropped the ball on. Finger pointing and explative shouting won't get anything changed for the better.



I am dreadfully waiting the time when our economy finally either partially collapses or goes clear under. Our currency has no backing/standard, the only thing that holds it up is the price of a barrel of oil.

How long will it be before the oil suppliers/OPEC want actual goods/resources instead of the dollar? We don't actually budget anymore, if we want to pay for something we just print up more money and pay for it that way. It works for awhile, but it does come back to bite you.


EDIT: Sorry for any grammatical errors ahead of time, I just got off work and I'm pretty tired.

[Outlaw 50]

Originally posted by Rastus
It's funny that we bring up these threads and talk about Individual freedoms, and not one person brings up the 2nd Amendment. :rolleyes:



EDIT: Sorry for any grammatical errors ahead of time, I just got off work and I'm pretty tired.

I bring up the 2nd Amendment every time I post on any board. Just read my signature.

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by Rastus
[B]


I am dreadfully waiting the time when our economy finally either partially collapses or goes clear under. Our currency has no backing/standard, the only thing that holds it up is the price of a barrel of oil.

[B]

That's exactly what's happening with the US economy. The strength of the US dollar is slowly falling ( well actually falling at a pretty quick rate).

Our Canadian dollar , for example , is now valued at 92 cent to the American dollar , and is expect to hit 95 cent by the summer.... something that hasn't been seen since the 70s when there was gas shortages and the US economy was rocky .

Originally posted by Quad18star
That's exactly what's happening with the US economy. The strength of the US dollar is slowly falling ( well actually falling at a pretty quick rate).

Our Canadian dollar , for example , is now valued at 92 cent to the American dollar , and is expect to hit 95 cent by the summer.... something that hasn't been seen since the 70s when there was gas shortages and the US economy was rocky .

yeah that's bill clinton's fault...eh?:rolleyes: ...oh no wait he was why we had to attack iraq....sorry i get those confused sometimes...:D ...

[armoks]

Originally posted by dlerch
yeah that's bill clinton's fault...eh?:rolleyes: ...oh no wait he was why we had to attack iraq....sorry i get those confused sometimes...:D ...

Yep With NAFTA and other intrnational trade agreements enacted under Clinton we lost thousands of jobs and businesses went to Mexico and Canada for the cheeper labor and no tarriffs.

If Clinton would have went after Bin Laden when WTC was first attacked we wouldn't be where we are at today and if he woulda shown some nads to the UN inspectors we would know what was in Iraq and would have had to go in. We only get a VERY small percentage of our oil from the middle east.

Do some real research.

[smr]

Originally posted by armoks
Yep With NAFTA and other intrnational trade agreements enacted under Clinton we lost thousands of jobs and businesses went to Mexico and Canada for the cheeper labor and no tarriffs.

If Clinton would have went after Bin Laden when WTC was first attacked we wouldn't be where we are at today and if he woulda shown some nads to the UN inspectors we would know what was in Iraq and would have had to go in. We only get a VERY small percentage of our oil from the middle east.

Do some real research.

Why bother doing research when the news tells them all they need to know? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by smr
Why bother doing research when the news tells them all they need to know? :rolleyes:

ok there's the pot calling the kettle black...:rolleyes: ...i guess the "research" you get from fox or rush limbozo is what you consider "reliable"? give me a break....everyone of you who disagree with me are the same....for some reason when it comes from a republicans mouth it's fact, when it comes from anyone else's mouth its fiction...do you all have to be hypocrites? where's your "facts"?

Originally posted by armoks
Yep With NAFTA and other intrnational trade agreements enacted under Clinton we lost thousands of jobs and businesses went to Mexico and Canada for the cheeper labor and no tarriffs.

If Clinton would have went after Bin Laden when WTC was first attacked we wouldn't be where we are at today and if he woulda shown some nads to the UN inspectors we would know what was in Iraq and would have had to go in. We only get a VERY small percentage of our oil from the middle east.

Do some real research.

ummm...maybe you should research who was president when wtc was attacked...i'll give you a hint clinton wasn't president... so i'm not sure if he's really allowed to be chasing down bin laden at that point...;)

and by the way i agree nafta stinks....

[smr]

Originally posted by dlerch
ok there's the pot calling the kettle black...:rolleyes: ...i guess the "research" you get from fox or rush limbozo is what you consider "reliable"? give me a break....everyone of you who disagree with me are the same....for some reason when it comes from a republicans mouth it's fact, when it comes from anyone else's mouth its fiction...do you all have to be hypocrites? where's your "facts"?

Dude...we've been through this before. I get my facts from soldiers and people working in the area.

btw..I'm a registered democrat. I don't care what party your from, just don't listen to people like Micheal Moore.

And..another btw...do your research. Clinton was president in 1993 when the world trade center was first attacked. Shows how much you really know.

proof.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_bombing

[sandmanblue]

Originally posted by dlerch
http://www.ctj.org/html/gwb0602.htm
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Taxes/P94070.asp
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0115-05.htm

i'm not asking anybody to "tax" the rich unfairly....i'm asking that they pay their fair share. because if they don't who do you think picks up the slack?....pretty simple really it is all percentages....now understand that i didn't get these links from republican websites so i doubt you'll believe them, but here they are for all to see...if you want more i'll get them....

Okay. I'm smart enough to understand all of this and on the surface, it looks like "rich people supposedly are getting a break.

Here are the problems.

1 - The breaks look big because the "rich" were paying WAY more than the other 99% before the tax cuts. The breaks would look HUGE if the "rich" paid 100% taxes and they were cut to 50%. No matter how you look at it, if you make more money, you will pay more taxes. And by a percentage of TOTAL TAX REVENUES, the top 1% PAY 33% of the total taxes.

2 - the charts include the totally unfair estate taxes that ripped off people that had larger homes. Of COURSE lower income homeowners don't get as big a "break", because they were not being screwed to begin with.

3 - These charts do NOT contradict what I had said to begin with. the tax cuts put into place have INCREASED the amount of money received by the IRS.

You can argue all you want about what is "fair", because "fair" is an opinion. But how much should the top 1%, 5% and 10% be taxed? If that 1% is paying 33% of the bill right now, how the hell is that not overtaxed??? how the hell is the top 50% paying 97% fair????

4 - "Instead, homeownership deductions have become the two-martini lunch of the upper middle class." Is a quote referring to the interest deductions for homeowners. THIS IS HOW A LOT OF PEOPLE CAN AFFORD HOMES!!!!!!! If you take away that deduction, then you might as well screw the whole country!

5 - Since the bottom 50% only pay 3% of the taxes, I would say that isn't "fair" at all. They are getting a free ride on the backs of others.

You want "FAIR"? Support a flat tax. Period.


Lastly - in all this class envy crap, YOU DID NOT CITE ONE EXAMPLE OF HOW THE ECONOMY GROWS, EMPLOYMENT GETS BETTER AND WE ARE ALL BETTER OFF WHEN YOU TAX THE HECK OUT OF PEOPLE!

Lerch and all that follow this ill conceived notion that the "rich" need to be taxed more don't see the light. When you tax people (ALL PEOPLE) more, you screw the economy!

Welcome to Econ 101 lerch. Instead of spewing jealousy of people that make money, open your eyes and look at what is happening! Tax revenues are UP. Taxes are DOWN FOR EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Next?

[250r4life]

Originally posted by dlerch
http://www.ctj.org/html/gwb0602.htm
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Taxes/P94070.asp
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0115-05.htm

i'm not asking anybody to "tax" the rich unfairly....i'm asking that they pay their fair share. because if they don't who do you think picks up the slack?....pretty simple really it is all percentages....now understand that i didn't get these links from republican websites so i doubt you'll believe them, but here they are for all to see...if you want more i'll get them....


their fair share? are you fricking kidding me?

you get the same benefits that they get (roads, police and fire, schools) but they pay way more for it, so how is that fair?

I graduated in accounting, and I would leave my tax classes pissed off at how people who make good money get screwed... and i wasnt even at the earnings to where it would happen to me... yet... i would just sit there and get pissed off cuz people who work hard and make good money get screwed. where is the incentive to work hard?

take my brother for instance... He graduated 2nd in his class from law school, and scored the 3rd highest in the entire state on the bar exam. he went to a large firm, where he would bill the most hours of any associate in the whole firm... would work 80 hour weeks at times... busted his butt to get where he is at... and now has a great job after putting in his time... and for all of his hard work, what does he get- to pay more taxes on his hard earned money! last year he paid more in taxes than 95% of americans earn in a year. how is that fair? he has worked for every single dollar?

tell me how that is fair? i didnt pay anywhere near what he paid, and i got just as much from paying taxes as he did... he got screwed...

not only are the tax rates higher as you make more money, but some deductions are done away with entirely, and others are phased out according to what you make... so their affective tax rate is even higher... bet you never heard of alternative minmum tax, or phase outs, or anything like that have ya?

you have no idea what you're talking about- dont believe everything the anti- bush people feed you...

[armoks]

Originally posted by dlerch
ummm...maybe you should research who was president when wtc was attacked...i'll give you a hint clinton wasn't president... so i'm not sure if he's really allowed to be chasing down bin laden at that point...;)

and by the way i agree nafta stinks....

UMMM I stated FIRST TIME...Bin Laden tried to blow it up with a truck bomb, it failed to do enough damage and they then attacked it with planes.

See you need to look further back to get to the truth!!

Originally posted by smr
Dude...we've been through this before. I get my facts from soldiers and people working in the area.

btw..I'm a registered democrat. I don't care what party your from, just don't listen to people like Micheal Moore.

And..another btw...do your research. Clinton was president in 1993 when the world trade center was first attacked. Shows how much you really know.

proof.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_bombing

my mistake...i thought he meant the 2nd wtc i.e. 9/11...anyway they caught/convicted most of the people associated with the '93 attack....but i still can't get over the fact that everyone says clinton's name when it comes to bin laden, how does bush escape accountability with you people?

...and by the way i don't get my info from micheal moore...what info do you get from "soldiers"...that they are fighting insurgents in the middle of a civil war? we all know that, and we didn't get it from al franken either....

.....and just out of curiosity. what media sources are we allowed to believe? just the ones that say iraq is going great? that we should be there?

[Rekd]

BLAME BUSH!

He's the cause for everything bad that's happened in the last 50 years.

:D

[Rekd]

Originally posted by dlerch
how does bush escape accountability with you people?

Easy, when he's blamed for things he's actually done.

[Quad18star]

Just chiming in and then leaving ....

Wasn't Bush Sr in power when the guys that bombed the WTC the first time were caught with the plans to build the bomb and where to plant it in the building in 1991 ??

If he knew of a plot by a terrorist group to blow up the building in 1991 , why didn't he pursue it further and make sure that this group was stopped and not let it carry over to the Clinton Administration which then had to deal with the building bombing 4 months into their term ??

[armoks]

Originally posted by Quad18star
Just chiming in and then leaving ....

Wasn't Bush Sr in power when the guys that bombed the WTC the first time were caught with the plans to build the bomb and where to plant it in the building in 1991 ??

If he knew of a plot by a terrorist group to blow up the building in 1991 , why didn't he pursue it further and make sure that this group was stopped and not let it carry over to the Clinton Administration which then had to deal with the building bombing 4 months into their term ??

The info was not credible back in our "nothing can happen here in the US" days. Clinton didn't even go to the site to see the damage, he was too busy with his interns.

Clinton was impeached by the house because he is a liar. Everyone says Bush is a liar so why hasn't he been impeached? OH the Republicans are in control and will stop it.....oh wait the dems are the majority now:rolleyes:

[smr]

Originally posted by armoks
The info was not credible back in our "nothing can happen here in the US" days. Clinton didn't even go to the site to see the damage, he was too busy with his interns.

Clinton was impeached by the house because he is a liar. Everyone says Bush is a liar so why hasn't he been impeached? OH the Republicans are in control and will stop it.....oh wait the dems are the majority now:rolleyes:

Some people just find it hard to believe that the stock market is at an all time high and people have more money in thier 401Ks than ever. Busch has done the best that he could, he has given tax cuts to everybody and he has even made it harder for poeple to set on the butts and not work. He has also worked very hard to control the terrorist. Like I've said before he will go down in history as one of the greatest, look through history at the unpopular Presidents. They are the ones we read about in school.

[sandmanblue]

I guess I made my point lerch. I would hope you knock the tax the rich crap off from now on.

Also, Bush and accountability.... There are things that have gone wrong, and there are things that have gone right. We (America) haven't caught bin Scumbag. He is so well hidden in the lawless, governmentless tribal areas of Pakistan that it has been VERY hard to catch him. Do you blame Bush for that? HE isn't hunting for him, our soldiers and CIA are. If we are facing an enemy that is as good at hiding as we are at finding, we may never actually find him. He HAS been rendered basically useless though and that's as good as we can expect.

What if we never find him and he just dies somewhere. Is that good enough? I think so. As long as he is isolated and cannot function.


The rest of the items the left want to pin on Bush, such as the WMD's... Let's face it, he is every bit as guilty of misleading the US as EVERY congressman that voted to go to war. So, if there's blame to be made, it must be on EVERYONE involved. Why does congress get a pass on this? Because some of them did the two step and flip flopped to say they were against the war? I don't think so. That's BS.

Lastly, there isn't any doubt that the mainstream left biased (yes, they are left biased. 85% of them voted democrat... another interesting fact...) media is on a witch hunt for retribution for Clinton's impeachment. THAT's why there is so much blame thrown around directly at Bush. THAT's why so many Americans just follow along the Bush hating bandwagon. Mindless robots...

It's those that question what they are told, and what they read that come to the bottom of it all. Only those ppl find the closest thing to the real truth.

Everyone else are just sheep - blindly taking all that they hear as fact......

[NorCalRacer]

Everyone else are just sheep - blindly taking all that they hear as fact...... [/B][/QUOTE]

That statement proves how completely ignorant you are. If people don't agree with you, they must be mindless sheep. What a joke. I agree with your business theory, taxing hard working people into lower income brackets isn't going to help anyone or be fair. As far as Bin Scumbag, maybe we could have got him when he showed up at his family's wedding, but we let it slide. I do find it disturbing that we seem not able toi find him and his and W's parents used to be business partners:rolleyes: I'm not reading anything into it but if Clinton pulled this crap you guys would be having a fit, of that I am sure. I definitely don't see Bush as evil incarnate, but I can't stand the attitude many of his extreme supporters have.

Originally posted by sandmanblue
I guess I made my point lerch. I would hope you knock the tax the rich crap off from now on.

Also, Bush and accountability.... There are things that have gone wrong, and there are things that have gone right. We (America) haven't caught bin Scumbag. He is so well hidden in the lawless, governmentless tribal areas of Pakistan that it has been VERY hard to catch him. Do you blame Bush for that? HE isn't hunting for him, our soldiers and CIA are. If we are facing an enemy that is as good at hiding as we are at finding, we may never actually find him. He HAS been rendered basically useless though and that's as good as we can expect.

What if we never find him and he just dies somewhere. Is that good enough? I think so. As long as he is isolated and cannot function.


The rest of the items the left want to pin on Bush, such as the WMD's... Let's face it, he is every bit as guilty of misleading the US as EVERY congressman that voted to go to war. So, if there's blame to be made, it must be on EVERYONE involved. Why does congress get a pass on this? Because some of them did the two step and flip flopped to say they were against the war? I don't think so. That's BS.

Lastly, there isn't any doubt that the mainstream left biased (yes, they are left biased. 85% of them voted democrat... another interesting fact...) media is on a witch hunt for retribution for Clinton's impeachment. THAT's why there is so much blame thrown around directly at Bush. THAT's why so many Americans just follow along the Bush hating bandwagon. Mindless robots...

It's those that question what they are told, and what they read that come to the bottom of it all. Only those ppl find the closest thing to the real truth.

Everyone else are just sheep - blindly taking all that they hear as fact......

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/08/washington/08tax.html?

ex=1325912400&en=e1dc82f54ac7eacb&ei=5090
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/05/business/05tax.html?ex=1301889600&en=2f0a40120544a89c&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
http://blog.aflcio.org/2006/07/05/bush-tax-cuts-for-the-rich-leave-rest-of-us-with-big-bill/

if you want more i can get them...let me know...

and as far as the sheep thing...didn't i use that in an earlier post? try and come up with your own material...:rolleyes:

if you're looking for someone that blindly follows the leader...i would suggest looking in the mirror....i couldn't stand bush from the moment he wanted to run for president, i knew then he wasn't qualified!...so don't think for one second that i'm a "johnny come lately" for the "bush haters of the world club" because again your assumption would be wrong...

and the "accountability" crap by you people spew is a real showing of your hypocracy...how is clinton responsible for bin laden, and bush not? clinton was president for a couple of months during the 93 wtc bombing....bush was president for 9 months when 9/11 happened....

clinton gets impeached for lying about getting a knob job in the oval office(though i do agree that he shouldn't have to tell anyone about his personal sex life) ok fine. no one dies....bush LIES and attacks a defenseless country with what he knows is bogus intelligence drummed up by cheney and his crew, and at this point has cost us untold billions of dollars and over 3400 american lives(which by the way is over 400 more than died on 9/11) not to mention the tens of thousands of innocent iraqi lives... he also violates our constitutional rights with illegal wiretaps and holding of american citizens in jail for years w/o charging them with a crime......of course the republicans were not gonna impeach him, they are just following like the good "sheep" they are....the dems are not going to impeach him because of 2 reasons...he's gone in less then 2 years anyway, and they know that this country is already polarized enough...and to take it a step further they may feel what i said earlier: that the general public may just feel that it's politically motivated, not motivated by just cause.

and as far as the "question what we are told" stuff that's a 2 way street...my questioning of the way bush/rove/cheney do things is not motivated by the jon stewart show...common sense and seeing things as the way they are is what makes me question this administration and its actions/policies...plain and simple...:ermm:

[250r4life]

you posted another thing about taxes that you clearly know nothing about...

and i've yet to see you respond how taxes are unfair- and that the people who make the most are the ones that are getting favored...

[AtvMxRider]

How about taking this chit someplace else besides a quad site. dlerch maybe you should start your own Bushhater.com site:rolleyes:

[250r4life]

Originally posted by AtvMxRider
How about taking this chit someplace else besides a quad site. dlerch maybe you should start your own Bushhater.com site:rolleyes:

i thought this was the "open" section to talk about whatever...?

[AtvMxRider]

Originally posted by 250r4life
i thought this was the "open" section to talk about whatever...?


and this chit has been beat to death and it gets NOWHERE.

Originally posted by AtvMxRider
and this chit has been beat to death and it gets NOWHERE.


hold on braniac....i've seen kids start threads about their sister farting...but this one you have a problem with....yeah ok...:rolleyes:

[250r4life]

Originally posted by dlerch
hold on braniac....i've seen kids start threads about their sister farting...but this one you have a problem with....yeah ok...:rolleyes:

lol...

:D

[AtvMxRider]

Originally posted by dlerch
hold on braniac....i've seen kids start threads about their sister farting...but this one you have a problem with....yeah ok...:rolleyes:

How many of these threads has there been??? EVERY one of them ends up the same way your right and everyone else is wrong.

Originally posted by AtvMxRider
How many of these threads has there been??? EVERY one of them ends up the same way your right and everyone else is wrong.


hey first off i don't start the threads....so if someone wants to start ranting and raving about how bush is great and the liberals are gonna ruin this country...i have just as much right to step in and disagree....if you don't like it, go read some kids thread about playstation 3, me personally i have no opinion on silly stuff like that....and besides like was said earlier "its the open forum"....and as far as me being "right and everyone else is wrong"....well thanks for noticing, and you can just call that a gift of mine....;)

Originally posted by AtvMxRider
How about taking this chit someplace else besides a quad site. dlerch maybe you should start your own Bushhater.com site:rolleyes:

and for your information....i really don't hate anyone...it takes to much energy for very little return....;)

[Rastus]

Originally posted by dlerch
and as far as me being "right and everyone else is wrong"....well thanks for noticing, and you can just call that a gift of mine....;)



That's because you're an elitist. It's OK, many have that problem. ;)

[Outlaw 50]

Originally posted by AtvMxRider
How many of these threads has there been??? EVERY one of them ends up the same way your right and everyone else is wrong.

Hey AtvMxRider, its real simple............don't read the stuff if you don't like it.

dlerch makes everyone think and we all have a good time discussing this "chit"

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by AtvMxRider
How about taking this chit someplace else besides a quad site. :rolleyes:

I agree with you Jerry . Even though I like reading a good debate , which this clearly isn't a debate , it's an arguement and pointing fingers , but this whole topic has been beat to death twice over. There's 2 or 3 of these same topics that show up every week and it's always the same people that start them and argue about it.

Sometimes I wish this website had a policy like others do about no political "debates" or arguements. This pointing fingers chit got old real quick . It's obvious that the right don't like the left and the left don't like the right ... how about agreeing to disagree and leave it at that??

[smr]

Originally posted by dlerch
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/08/washington/08tax.html?

ex=1325912400&en=e1dc82f54ac7eacb&ei=5090
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/05/business/05tax.html?ex=1301889600&en=2f0a40120544a89c&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
http://blog.aflcio.org/2006/07/05/bush-tax-cuts-for-the-rich-leave-rest-of-us-with-big-bill/

if you want more i can get them...let me know...

and as far as the sheep thing...didn't i use that in an earlier post? try and come up with your own material...:rolleyes:

if you're looking for someone that blindly follows the leader...i would suggest looking in the mirror....i couldn't stand bush from the moment he wanted to run for president, i knew then he wasn't qualified!...so don't think for one second that i'm a "johnny come lately" for the "bush haters of the world club" because again your assumption would be wrong...

and the "accountability" crap by you people spew is a real showing of your hypocracy...how is clinton responsible for bin laden, and bush not? clinton was president for a couple of months during the 93 wtc bombing....bush was president for 9 months when 9/11 happened....

clinton gets impeached for lying about getting a knob job in the oval office(though i do agree that he shouldn't have to tell anyone about his personal sex life) ok fine. no one dies....bush LIES and attacks a defenseless country with what he knows is bogus intelligence drummed up by cheney and his crew, and at this point has cost us untold billions of dollars and over 3400 american lives(which by the way is over 400 more than died on 9/11) not to mention the tens of thousands of innocent iraqi lives... he also violates our constitutional rights with illegal wiretaps and holding of american citizens in jail for years w/o charging them with a crime......of course the republicans were not gonna impeach him, they are just following like the good "sheep" they are....the dems are not going to impeach him because of 2 reasons...he's gone in less then 2 years anyway, and they know that this country is already polarized enough...and to take it a step further they may feel what i said earlier: that the general public may just feel that it's politically motivated, not motivated by just cause.

and as far as the "question what we are told" stuff that's a 2 way street...my questioning of the way bush/rove/cheney do things is not motivated by the jon stewart show...common sense and seeing things as the way they are is what makes me question this administration and its actions/policies...plain and simple...:ermm:

Once again you've gotten your fax scewed up. Why don't you do a little reseach and find out why Clinton was impeached.

Why don't you look around you and see how much better off we are now than we where 6 years ago.

I thought it was so funny when you said Busch was president during the first attack on the trade center....now you spew off this crap. Once again you have proven that you know nothing. Please post something else wrong so we can all have another laugh.

[Eviltanker]

If you actually trust any media (written or verbal, left or right) YOU ARE WRONG! I am an independant and glad of it. I am also a soldier that has seen enough to turn my hair grey from war. Both times (about to go a third time) I did not see any media in my AO. For some reason though they knew everything going on!!!! I call B.S.!! Both sides don't know whats going on over there and probably never will because, all they want to do is blame each other for this soup sandwich, If you really want to know ask someone that was there. if not don't spew your politicaly charged "facts" A true argument looks objectively at both sides of the conversation.
BTW, John "I oppose this war" Kerry was on the war commity that approved of delaring war. Yes thats right, Bush cannot send troops by himself, It has to be approved by congress then sent to a war commity to get finnal aproval. Also congress just cut military spending (war funds) by 900 million dollars (both sides agree'd to this so they are both a-holes). That is money needed to pay for important things like body armor and bullets. I agree this war is SNAFU but we can't cut money to the guys that are there, it will be like signing there death certificate. If you think the Gov. should do that then how about voluntering to go house to house and explain to PVT. smiths mom that her son had to die because you wanted to have the extra$5 in your pocket (thats about all it comes out to) then tell me how it feels. All in all both sides can make good points from time to time but we as a nation are losing sight of the big picture here by playing these stupid games of "my party is beter than yours because."

And for the record I think both sides need to get there heads out of there buts and back in the game were it belongs... like consentrating on our economy, education, and environment.

I'm Frank and I aprove of this message.
Thank you for your eyes and I'll get off my soapbox now.

Originally posted by Quad18star
I agree with you Jerry . Even though I like reading a good debate , which this clearly isn't a debate , it's an arguement and pointing fingers , but this whole topic has been beat to death twice over. There's 2 or 3 of these same topics that show up every week and it's always the same people that start them and argue about it.

Sometimes I wish this website had a policy like others do about no political "debates" or arguements. This pointing fingers chit got old real quick . It's obvious that the right don't like the left and the left don't like the right ... how about agreeing to disagree and leave it at that??

obviously you guys are buddies, so you will agree with him...but i noticed you don't have a problem(quad18star) talking about hockey on a "quad site"....again i will re-iterrate this is the "open" forum and we who choose to post on these "political threads" have that choice as long as it stays within the rules of the site. we are not threatening each other etc etc like i've seen people have done on less meaningful threads...we as a collective have found something to discuss/debate over, and for the most part intelligently. we hurt no one else because of it. also like i said before; i've seen kids talking about all kinds of stupid moronic crap w/out so much as blink of an eye from people on this site. it almost seems encouraged sometimes. but bring up something that actually has some meaning to it, and people are beside themselves. so if you don't like it, don't read it, and surely don't post, and if you do post, don't make a condemnation of our opinion to debate such topics...simple as that....if you like other sites because all they talk about is the newest gun racks etc etc, thats cool...have at it...i like stuff that is a little more mentally stimulating...:eek:..now i'll let you get back to your strange brew video, and havin' a beer 'eh...

*NOTE one last thing if the administrator and/or pappy feel that i have gone over the lines in anyway with the political stuff. a simple pm saying so is all that is needed, and out of pure respect for the site i will personally stop....

[NorCalRacer]

Originally posted by AtvMxRider
How about taking this chit someplace else besides a quad site. dlerch maybe you should start your own Bushhater.com site:rolleyes:

I don't think he statrted a thread claiming everyone who wasn't on the right hated America:rolleyes: If you don't want to hear responses, then end the rants. But say something stupid, and him, or I, will probably respond. If you still don't like it, go elsewhere. Very simple...

[HONDA#3]

All Libians who hate america are ***in idiots anyway' we try to help um and all they want to do is kill each other; *** um

[Pappy]

People complain this site is full of kids when all I see is adults acting moronic.