clutch is beat & the kicker won't work

[sunco]

OK so I knew the clutch was going. I have 04 450R w/ curtis pipe. I was in the fields rippin it up. It cut off. I stop kicked it & started - cut off & then the kicker won't move @ all. We tried to bump start - nothing. Got my ride back to the shop & started to take the clutch apart (newbie) I don't have one of those gauges to check the thickness on the plates but they aren't any thicker than two peices of paper put together. One of those round rings (last one that came out is cupped. I then checked the clutch center - it does have like ribs on the inner of the slots. The outer (yall call that the basket?) Thats got the same thing. Thats as far as I got tonite. I guess I have to drain the radiator & take the big cover off so I get remove the clutch outer guide bearing. Do I need to replace all the parts I mentioned? OK now what about why the kicker won't go? should I keep taken things apart? What should I be looking for? Thanx for helping. Trying to get what I need to fix it & get to Breezwood for the holiday.

[400exrider707]

Sounds like rod bearing or crank bearing failure. The clutch is the least of your problems. The last plate is supposed to look different though I'm not sure what you mean by cupped.

[sunco]

cupped meaning funnel like

My engine didn't make any crazy noises. It just wouldn't kick.

Not a motor guy but your telling me I'm gonna be? What all that intail? Just start taking my motor apart until I find parts that don't look right?

[d3ktrix]

Any metal shavings in your oil filter?

[sunco]

I didn't drain the engine oil yet. I'll check

[400exrider707]

Yes you are going to be a motor guy;)

There is a funnel shaped piece that goes in under your last clutch fiber, that is supposed to be like that, I believe its called a studder spring or something of the nature. A lot of aftermarket clutch kits eliminate this. Your basket having grooves on the fingers is normal. Some people switch to a billet unit, they are pricey though. You can get away with lightly filing smooth, but dont over do it.

My guess is as you have an 04 with probably a lot of use on it, that the rod bearing went. I would tear it down and see what is going on. Im willing to bet as soon as you pull the oil filter you will find metal shavings. Pull it apart, see what you need, then put in an order to www.servicehonda.com that will save you 20% on parts. Tear it down and order everything you need from Honda all at once, that way you save on shipping. I just had this same thing happen to me and parts from servicehonda ran me about $385, and that included a new crank assembly. I would recommend getting a new crank for the simple reason that it is the only way that I know of currently to get the updated crank bearing and seal, and it also contains that little billet piece to hold the crank bearing tight. Check out the sticky at the top of the page under the 450R forum, you will see 04/05 crank mod inside. It also lists the honda P/N for the updated crank, which I haven't found anywhere else, and its like $20 cheaper than the old crank. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

[sunco]

Thanx for the info. I should take the motor out? Yes it does have alot of use on it.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by sunco
Thanx for the info. I should take the motor out? Yes it does have alot of use on it.

I would start by checking out your oil filter. Then if there are shavings which Im sure there are, start taking off the top end. Once the top end is off, you can take the motor out, it is much easier to do this way IMO.

[sunco]

Talked w/ EAST COAST ATV. they put my pipe on. So it seems to me w/ this forum & talking w/ them you don't know until you take it apart. Cost could range from 1000 - 1700 range. they'll take it apart & show me what went bad. If I have to pay 500 for new parts plus I'm sure there are tools I'll need to buy & my time - whats that cost ? Estimated @ least $1000 right?

Anyone in north Jersey / east pa that has a shop to recomend?

Going to take the filter out now - be back later

[d3ktrix]

You'll probably send $50 at the most on special tools if you do the job your self.
That is if u have a decent tool setup already of all the normal tools.

Their quote of $1000 to $1700 is a good ballpark for a shop to do that kind of bottom end work.

A dealer near me quoted my friend like $2500 for a crank bearing failure.
He had his friend do it :P

[Chino886]

Yeah, the cost of parts alone can vary from $300 to $1500, depending on what let go and where you buy your parts!

Every hour that you work on your motor, is 100s of dollars that you will save in the future. The reason why I say that is that if you can split the cases and replace the crank, there is not much in that motor you can do! No more repair shop work.

[sunco]

ok so there is metal shavings on the oil filter. I had a flash back when talking w/ someone. I paid almost $600 for the extended warranty. I got 42 months & today it is 37 months since I bought it. I inquired as to what is covered .... all they would tell me is to bring it in.

So I have a curtis pipe & a k&N w/ the lid off. anyone see issues w/ not covering my quad under warranty?

Should I put my stock pipe & lid back, what about my oil ? change it w/ new & bring it down or dump the old oil back in?

[Chino886]

It is up to the Honda Reps Discretion.

if they do not cover it, they will charge you teardown labor.

But I recommend you take it in since they know about the problems on the 04/05s.

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by sunco
ok so there is metal shavings on the oil filter. I had a flash back when talking w/ someone. I paid almost $600 for the extended warranty. I got 42 months & toady it is 37 months since I bought it. I inquired as to what is covered .... all they would tell me is to bring it in.

So I have a curtis pipe & a k&N w/ the lid off. anyone see issues w/ not covering my quad under warranty?

Put any engine mods back to stock before you bring it in.

Put the stock pipe on, jets and air filter.
If you don't have them, BUY THEM.

They can void your warranty so fast with any of those mods.
Spending a few min putting the engine back to stock could save you thousands.
And if you have any number plates on, take them off just in case. Some dealers won't warranty bikes with them on because they say it has been raced.

When my friends crank bearings went, he also had the extended warranty. So he brought it in but they wouldn't help him because he had a Uni, pipe and number plates.

Make the bike as stock as possible before you bring it in.
The extended warranty might save your wallet!

[sunco]

I didn't jet the carb. could I just leave the jets in ? but i can put the pipe back & stock foot pegs - my nerfs are ac & they suck any way. I guess I should take off my hipers to look as close to stock as possible. So what about the oil?

would it be ok to put a new clutch in it before I brought it in or should I leave it alone?

[Rulz]

Originally posted by d3ktrix
Put any engine mods back to stock before you bring it in.

Put the stock pipe on, jets and air filter.
If you don't have them, BUY THEM.

They can void your warranty so fast with any of those mods.
Spending a few min putting the engine back to stock could save you thousands.
And if you have any number plates on, take them off just in case. Some dealers won't warranty bikes with them on because they say it has been raced.

When my friends crank bearings went, he also had the extended warranty. So he brought it in but they wouldn't help him because he had a Uni, pipe and number plates.

Make the bike as stock as possible before you bring it in.
The extended warranty might save your wallet!

If they void your warranty due to aftermarket parts than that is illegal to do so on their part! Just mention to the service department manager your understanding of the Magnuson-Moss Act regarding warranties and you'll get some attention!

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by Rulz
If they void your warranty due to aftermarket parts than that is illegal to do so on their part! Just mention to the service department manager your understanding of the Magnuson-Moss Act regarding warranties and you'll get some attention!

Changing engine performance parts changes the load on other engine components, running them out of spec.
Its warrantied for how they designed it.
You can't have a NOS bottle on it and expect them to warranty it.

"Your crappy crank bearings couldn't handle my 50 shot of nos, i want new ones and u have to install them for free"

Extreme example, but same point :P

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by sunco
I didn't jet the carb. could I just leave the jets in ? but i can put the pipe back & stock foot pegs - my nerfs are ac & they suck any way. I guess I should take off my hipers to look as close to stock as possible. So what about the oil?

would it be ok to put a new clutch in it before I brought it in or should I leave it alone?

Wouldn't worry about the nerfs/foot pegs.

If your guna take the pipe off and put the air box lid on, u don't have much choice but the change the jets. If not it won't run right after they fix it, and they will check out the carb and see it jetted for an opened up engine.

Tho if you do all this and its not a major problem, or they don't cover it anyway it will suck.
Tho if u have tons of metal in the filter I'd say it can't me good and worth a little bit of work/money if you can get it covered under warranty.

Just trying to get you covered under warranty, if it turns out to be a waste of time putting it back to stock don't shoot me :P

[sunco]

yea ok - hows that work on the jetting. if you put them back like stock, don't u have to adjust it? The engine won't run. Or is it the fact that there in will make it ok. Nobody said anything about my oil or the clutch. Put in new or just put the old stuff back? What is stock on the jetting? Is there 3 needles?

[Chino886]

Leave your stock clutch in there, they might replace that as well.

Just put the bike back to stock, you can leave the nerfs on.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by d3ktrix
Wouldn't worry about the nerfs/foot pegs.

If your guna take the pipe off and put the air box lid on, u don't have much choice but the change the jets. If not it won't run right after they fix it, and they will check out the carb and see it jetted for an opened up engine.

Tho if you do all this and its not a major problem, or they don't cover it anyway it will suck.
Tho if u have tons of metal in the filter I'd say it can't me good and worth a little bit of work/money if you can get it covered under warranty.

Just trying to get you covered under warranty, if it turns out to be a waste of time putting it back to stock don't shoot me :P

He said he never changed the jetting to begin with... could be a cause of his problems....

By not changing your jetting, and running a pipe with no lid, you probably did the engine damage yourself. This might not actually be a crank bearing failure like thought before. You might have done some serious top end damage. Either way its expensive. Not to mention it probably made less power with the pipe and filter and stock jetting than it did bone stock.

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
He said he never changed the jetting to begin with... could be a cause of his problems....

By not changing your jetting, and running a pipe with no lid, you probably did the engine damage yourself. This might not actually be a crank bearing failure like thought before. You might have done some serious top end damage. Either way its expensive. Not to mention it probably made less power with the pipe and filter and stock jetting than it did bone stock.


The way he said it, it made me think he had someone else do his jetting.
That the bike was jetted for the pipe, just he didn't do it him self?

Which was it sunco?

If it was jetted, all u have to do is find out what the stock jets were and put them back in, no other adjustments needed.

This is the 05 stock jetting:
Stock
118 Main
OEM Needle 3rd clip
48 Pilot jet
Fuel Screw 1.75 turns out

If you already have the clutch all apart I'd say just put the new parts in.
Doubt the dealer will cover the clutch cuz its a normal ware and tear part.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by d3ktrix
The way he said it, it made me think he had someone else do his jetting.
That the bike was jetted for the pipe, just he didn't do it him self?

Which was it sunco?

If it was jetted, all u have to do is find out what the stock jets were and put them back in, no other adjustments needed.

This is the 05 stock jetting:
Stock
118 Main
OEM Needle 3rd clip
48 Pilot jet
Fuel Screw 1.75 turns out

If you already have the clutch all apart I'd say just put the new parts in.
Doubt the dealer will cover the clutch cuz its a normal ware and tear part.

ahh, ok yeah now I dont really know either.... anyways put it back to stock with stock jetting and see what they do.

[sunco]

I personally did not do the work. EAST COAST ATV did the pipe & jetting along w/ a few other maintence issues. It was all done correct by them, not me. I stopped @ Honda this morning & asked for the jet kit. What a surprise - they'd have to ordered it. Maybe I should just go back to East Coast & let them do it cause I'd have to get the jet kit from someone.

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by sunco
I personally did not do the work. EAST COAST ATV did the pipe & jetting along w/ a few other maintence issues. It was all done correct by them, not me. I stopped @ Honda this morning & asked for the jet kit. What a surprise - they'd have to ordered it. Maybe I should just go back to East Coast & let them do it cause I'd have to get the jet kit from someone.

Yeah most dealers are useless and won't carry individual jets, and only sell the rip off jet kits. I doubt the jet kit even has a small enough jet for stock.

I'd call ECATV and see what they changed in the carb, they might of only changed the main jet.
If thats the case all you'll need to do is buy one $5 main jet.

[sunco]

Thanx - I'll call them in a little bit. that thing called work always get in the way.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by sunco
Thanx - I'll call them in a little bit. that thing called work always get in the way.

nonsense.:blah:

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
nonsense.:blah:

Saying he hasn't had time to call ECATV yet cuz he's at work =)

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by d3ktrix
Saying he hasn't had time to call ECATV yet cuz he's at work =)

hahah I know what he's saying, I was just saying nonsense, work is not an excuse!

[d3ktrix]

oh lol

[sunco]

ECATV must feel bad for me (maybe cause I called to much) They said bring it in & they'll do it while I wait, so when the wife gets back I can head to the shop & put it stock. Then friday am on my way to a service call I can go to ECATV let them do there thing & head off to the pocono's where I got it & drop it off. Hey w/ all the help / advise about my R , I'll be sure to share the outcome as to what it was. thanx everyone.

[d3ktrix]

Hope it works out!, GL

[sunco]

Put it back to stock & polished it up. Its @ the dealers - waiting to here back the results.

[Flyin-Low]

Good luck!

Maybe Honda will just send you a full brand new engine. ;)


-Martin