Engine?

[OutlawBill]

EFI out front ? exhaust out back? with gas tank under seat? Only time will tell.

[ThePhantomRider]

Well the exhaust exit's out front. Take a look at the frame picture with the shilloute blacked out. spin it to the right side of the quad and you can see the exhaust bending from the front....

Just like from the rear quarter view you can see it has a wave rear disk brake a-la KFX.


TPR

[OutlawBill]

Just throwing ideas out to get the ball rolling. How due you get the engine in and out of the frame does the frame section unbolts or does the engine unbolt jut ideas?

[ThePhantomRider]

I don't have that answer. I'd imagine that while most of the frame is lock bolted together, the extra side rails and subframe are removable for service. It just likely requires (Like the Raptor 700) that the bolts be replaced with new instead of reused.

You'd think with all that engineering, they would make getting to the important bits easy.

TPR

[ThePhantomRider]

I don't have that answer. I'd imagine that while most of the frame is lock bolted together, the extra side rails and subframe are removable for service. It just likely requires (Like the Raptor 700) that the bolts be replaced with new instead of reused.

You'd think with all that engineering, they would make getting to the important bits easy.

TPR

[hak231]

Has anyone else noticed that the engine sounds "different". On a couple portions of the frame video, you can hear the engine pretty good while the rider is going over doubles. It has a sound almost like a twin cylinder. Maybe it is just the video, but it seriously sounds like a Banshee with a 2 into 1 exhaust on it. I know it isn't, but it has a high-revving, multi-cylinder sound.

I guess we will find out what gives it that unique sound in the final video installment.

[armoks]

Maybe it will be like the Aprilla V they have in their supermotard:eek:

[mephyst]

Yeah, it sounds a lot different... I was wondering if that was even the real sound or they just inputted it for the video??

[ThePhantomRider]

No v-twin, it would not be allowed to be run in the AMA GNC class as AMA rules state there are to be no multicylinder engines in the 250 and 450 classes...

Now a Aprillia 550 twin powered DS650 replacement in a 400lb package would be real nice!

TPR

[54warrior]

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
Just like from the rear quarter view you can see it has a wave rear disk brake a-la KFX.


Sorry, your statement should have ended with...

"a-la Cannondale Moto and Blaze machines" NOT KFX-Just my opinion sorry.


Yes I also agreed that the motor sounded different, but better. I'm sure it will be EFI, but maybe it has VVT, DOD and all kinds of other crazy stuff-LOL!

[armoks]

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
No v-twin, it would not be allowed to be run in the AMA GNC class as AMA rules state there are to be no multicylinder engines in the 250 and 450 classes...

TPR

We have also seen AMA rules change in the off season to acomidate new designs in ATV's.

[54warrior]

I think it would be hard to have a twin cylinder and still keep the weight down.

[TWILES]

I noticed that when he let off the gas it didn't automatically rev down to nothing. I like that. The ungodly amount of engine breaking in the 450 quads is the main reason I can't get used to them. My WR isn't that bad but the Honda 450R we had would throw you over the bars and the term "dead-air" was defined very well to me when I thought I was going to die. The engine breaking KILLS the momentum.

[parkers30]

Originally posted by TWILES
I noticed that when he let off the gas it didn't automatically rev down to nothing. I like that. The ungodly amount of engine breaking in the 450 quads is the main reason I can't get used to them. My WR isn't that bad but the Honda 450R we had would throw you over the bars and the term "dead-air" was defined very well to me when I thought I was going to die. The engine breaking KILLS the momentum.

I think that just means you have not adapted to riding it very well!

I hardly ever fully left off the gas on yfz unless I am stopped or want to stop. otherwise you just left off partially to slow down a bit.

[Quad18star]

Wouldn't it be great to see a 2 stroke back in a quad??;)

Rotax 2 stroke E-Tek engines are getting better emissions than most new 4 strokes. I love that high revving sounds !!!:devil:

[ThePhantomRider]

Originally posted by 54warrior
Sorry, your statement should have ended with...

"a-la Cannondale Moto and Blaze machines" NOT KFX-Just my opinion sorry.


Yes I also agreed that the motor sounded different, but better. I'm sure it will be EFI, but maybe it has VVT, DOD and all kinds of other crazy stuff-LOL!

Sorry, but I wasn't slighting Cannondale one bit, matter of fact there is one in my father's garage right now. That said, many are probably more familiar with the Kawasaki these days and it was only an example.

For me Cannondale showed what direction you can take with a sport quad. They pushed the envelope in design and material use as evident by Kawasaki basing their frame on the original C-Dale.

I think that Can-Am has taken that note and moved forward with it as we will see in the comming weeks, people will be excited.

That said, no 2-smoke, no twin, but an all new 450 single with mucho power!!!

TPR

[don_carallo]

..in the presentation of the Renegeade, they said that with didn´t discarding a EFI 2stroke engine on their new 450..

but that exhaust sais "i´m a 4 stroke!"

a friend of mine, who works for Can-Am, said me that it will be similar to a V Mille engine, but single cilinder

[TWILES]

Originally posted by parkers30
I think that just means you have not adapted to riding it very well!

I hardly ever fully left off the gas on yfz unless I am stopped or want to stop. otherwise you just left off partially to slow down a bit.

The Yamaha motors don't have the drag the Honda had. I've ridden YFZ's and my WR450 and they are totally different from the Honda. If I rev my WR all the way out in say 4th and let off it pulls it down gradually but that Honda would scoot me forward on the seat. I rode a friends that had the HRC kit and a lot of other thing + a ProTrax front-end and Laeger swing-arm, the new style PEP ZPS shocks and it really wan't that much different than the stock one. Later he put the CRF ignition in it and I think that help a lot. He sold it before I got to ride it.

[250Renvy]

Originally posted by Quad18star
Wouldn't it be great to see a 2 stroke back in a quad??;)

Rotax 2 stroke E-Tek engines are getting better emissions than most new 4 strokes. I love that high revving sounds !!!:devil:



I emailed Bombardier a year ago suggesting that they make a 450 2-stroke with the same technology they use in the EVINRUDE outboards - they would smoke everybody. I also suggested they make a frame that can have interchangeable motors - like a 80cc for little kids and up depending on the class that way you make one quad, but different motors.

The way this frame is put together that could be a possiblility, just unbolt the parts with the motor mounts and make a different part that bolts back in.

[Quad18star]

Oh trust me ... they've been thinking about a 2 stroke for a LONG time now . Their numbers with their Rotax 2-Tek engines are awesome.... nearly 30% less oil consumption and better than 50% less emissions from a standard 2 stroke engine.

Their 4-Tek engines are just as impressive.

i would love to see a new updated 2 stroker. Gas Gas tried but its never really took off... Can am might be able to pull it off...They should offer a 450 package, or even at the dealers offer a updated 265 PV motor...It Would get all the sales from the die hard 250r guys like me :D

[SlOoT]

Is this a cilinder head on the far right side of the picture ? on the table ?

http://www.bombquad.com/images/2008_can-am_ds450/ds450_frame_2hr.jpg

[Mcknight#5]

i bet its the same engine that bmw using in there new 450 enduro. and all there other single cyilnder 650s are rotaxs ive seen pictures and the engine looks the part.

[ThePhantomRider]

Then they have different bottom ends because the BMW is a left had drive.


TPR

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by SlOoT
Is this a cilinder head on the far right side of the picture ? on the table ?

[IMG]http://www.bombquad.com/images/2008_can-am_ds450/ds450_frame_2hr.jpg[/ IMG]

Sure looks like it. I think I can make out a pair of cam sprockets on the far side. Assuming that is the intake side facing us--it looks to be downdrafted nicely.

[cjpoole1]

Originally posted by Mcknight#5
i bet its the same engine that bmw using in there new 450 enduro. and all there other single cyilnder 650s are rotaxs ive seen pictures and the engine looks the part.
maybe.....maybe not
http://yfzcentral.com/uploads/userfiles/z400central/ds450frame5.jpg
http://www.motoaus.com/images/stories/storyimages/bmw/bmw_450_sprocket.jpg
http://www.motoaus.com/images/stories/storyimages/bmw/bmw-450-enduro-motor.jpg

[54warrior]

Well at least the 02 sensors are in an easy spot to change!:)

[bradley300]

thats awesome if they use o2 sensors. then the efi can really make up for exhaust, intake, motor work changes, unlike the non o2 sensored efi's that are out now

[rpyfz450]

Originally posted by mephyst
Yeah, it sounds a lot different... I was wondering if that was even the real sound or they just inputted it for the video??

Those were my thoughts immediately.

[armoks]

Originally posted by armoks
Maybe it will be like the Aprilla V they have in their supermotard:eek:

Well it wasn't the aprilla I was hoping for but they got the head design from them!!:D