is 110 octane ok

[jfk400]

I have a 05 stock 400ex with hmf pipe, is it ok to run 110 octane fuel? i would think it would be ok but i just want to check.

[GPracer2500]

Most racing fuels will require re-jetting. Plus, there's very little reason to run anything but pump gas in your stock 400EX.

[Valhalla]

http://science.howstuffworks.com/gasoline3.htm



please read this.

[nevadanotch]

Yes you can run this fuel, however it is extremely expensive and the small amount of performance gain will not really be noticeable. Like GPracer2500 said, stick with regular pump gas.

[Dill]

Originally posted by nevadanotch
Yes you can run this fuel, however it is extremely expensive and the small amount of performance gain will not really be noticeable. Like GPracer2500 said, stick with regular pump gas.

there would be NO performance gain, in fact, he would probably lose power by running race fuel.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by Dill
there would be NO performance gain, in fact, he would probably lose power by running race fuel.

Depends what you run and how its jetted, you can gain some small amounts of power with an oxygenated fuel, but again the jetting needs to be compensated, and there are way easier ways to get power, than spending $15 a gallon on gas.

[sandspanker]

i can get race gas for 4.29 a gal. not much more then super unleaded.:p

[sideways]

now what if you were to have a hotcams stage 1, the 416 bore with high compression, and the hmf pipe versus the stock on high octane fuel. would it make a difference running the 110 vs 93?

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by sideways
now what if you were to have a hotcams stage 1, the 416 bore with high compression, and the hmf pipe versus the stock on high octane fuel. would it make a difference running the 110 vs 93?

Engines aren't aware of octane rating until they don't have enough. What gets a lot of folks so confused about pump gas vs. race gas vs. whatever else type of gasoline is there are a lot of things that distinguish one gas from another besides octane rating. There are a whole bunch of things that make most race gas different from most pump gas. Many of these things have nothing to do with octane rating. Even among different race gases there is a huge variety available--and again: octane rating is only ONE OF MANY distinguishing features. Heck, even pump gasolines are not created equal even though they may all have the same octane ratings.

400exrider707 said it---->when it comes to gasoline, it depends. You can't throw all racing fuels (or all "110 octane" fuels) into the same basket and come to any meaningful conclusions. Picking the right fuel for any particular engine is about matching the fuel's specifications to the engine's needs (while not forgetting about price, availability, and other practical considerations).


To answer your question: whether your engine is stock or whether it's a typical 416/426/440 pump gas build--there may be some (relatively small) advantages to running some of the more common "110 octane" leaded race fuels. They tend to be far more consistent batch-to-batch than pump gas. That means your jetting will be the same batch-to-batch. Pump gas can be very inconsistent in that regard.

Most racing fuels have specially engineered distillation curves designed to vaporize in a way that your engine will like. That may or may not actually manifest itself as more peak HP. It is likely to lead to quicker reving and a "snappier" feel. You're engine might even run a touch cooler (because of latent heat of vaporization, not becasue the fuel "burns cooler"). But in order to get those advantages you've got to look at the specifications of the fuel you're considering and decide if they match your engine's needs. If you try a racing fuel that's meant for supercharged big-block drag cars it may not perform well in your 400EX. This gets right back to "it depends". It depends on which gas (brand/model) you're specifically talking about.

None of that matters though unless you confirm that the jetting is right. If you change fuels without rejetting, chances are good-to-fair that it will run worse than before (unless you weren't jetted right in the first place and the new fuel happens to like you're previously incorrect jetting).

Bottom line: Unless your ready to roll up your sleaves, learn about gasoline specifications, do some testing, and spend some money; it's usually not worth messing with race gas if your engine doesn't need more octane than can be had with premium pump. If your "high compression" piston causes detonation (knocking, pinging) with pump gas then you'll need a fuel with a higher octane.

That's a lot to sort through but hopefully it gives you some direction.

[sideways]

so is there a 110 for every application? (i.e drag car, street car, atv) is the 110 you get from sunoco the same 110 you get from exxon?

i am someone who is willing to learn, what are the differences in gasoline other than the octane? i know that may seem like a bad question, but i thought the process for making gas was the asme throughout. i thought octane was octane and thats what made the engine go vroom.

last wuestion. would using an octane booster in regular pump 93 actually incrase the power output of your engine?

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by sideways
so is there a 110 for every application? (i.e drag car, street car, atv)....
There may not be a "110" for every application. But there's probably a race gas for every application. I think VP makes over 60 different gasolines, for example. Each one has its place.

....is the 110 you get from sunoco the same 110 you get from exxon?....
Not necessarily. They may be close--or even nearly identical--or they could be quite different. Every race gas available should have a specification sheet available from somewhere. If you can't get it from whomever is selling the fuel then you can probably get it from the manufacture's website. Personally, I wouldn't buy a race fuel I couldn't get a spec sheet for.


....i am someone who is willing to learn, what are the differences in gasoline other than the octane? i know that may seem like a bad question, but i thought the process for making gas was the asme throughout. i thought octane was octane and thats what made the engine go vroom.....
One of the big things that makes one gas different from another is the distillation curve specifications. These specs are a basic property of any given gasoline. Leaded vs. unleaded and oxygenated vs. non-oxy are other significant differences.

Gasoline is mostly made up of hydrocarbons (molecules that contain only hydrogen atoms and carbon atoms). There are tons of different types of these hydrocabons. The differences between them are the number hydrogen and carbon atoms that make up each molecule (and the way in which the atoms connect together). Most gasolines will have literally hundreds of different hydrocabons types in it.

The different classes and types of hydrocabons have different characteristics. Each has its own octane rating, boiling point, burning characteristics, etc. The final gasoline product is a mixture of all these individual characteristics. When a gasoline is designed, the particular mix of hydrocabons used is chosen to meet certain needs.

You can have two different gasolines with identical octane ratings and yet have them made up of a totally different mix of hydrocabons. Octane rating is NOT what makes an engine "go".


....last wuestion. would using an octane booster in regular pump 93 actually incrase the power output of your engine?....
No. Not unless the engine is detonating because the fuel being used has a too low octane rating. And even then, most common octane boosters struggle to actually raise octane rating.

Octane rating is not where a gasoline's power comes from. Octane rating is only a measure of resistance to the abnormal combustion phenomenon known as detonation (aka knocking, pinging). That's all it means.

[kilgoja]

i think gas all comes from the same places...it's just that different companies put different additives in their gas....such as chevron uses techron in their gas which doesn't affect the octane but it does keep ur engine cleaner since there will be less deposits because of the techron in the gas...burns off cleaner than say sunoco gas for example....i guess every company has their own additives but the basic "gas" is all the same...at least that's what they said on modern marvels on the history channel...lol

[sideways]

most of my info has also come from the history or the discovery channel, and that s why i am so interested in the differences in gas and the result in using them in our atv's. if theres no difference, might as well save the 4 to 7 dollars per gallon and get pump gas

[GPracer2500]

I'm very familiar with the Modern Marvels episode about gasoline. What you have to remember is that specialty gasolines (i.e. racing gasoline) is beyond the scope of that program and others like it. That episode was OK, and for the average person with only a mild interest in gasoline it served it's purpose of entertaining while providing some basic info. But there is a thing or two that wasn't explained well and I think may give folks the wrong impression. JMO.

In that Modern Marvels episode they breifly discuss some of the refining processes (catalystic reforming, hydrocracking, alkylation) that produce all the different hydrocabons used in gasoline. These processes produce the basic building blocks of all gasoline. But the particular concentrations of each type of hyrdocabon class is dependent on the type of gasoline being produced. The mixes you'll find in the vast majority of racing gasolines are going to be quite a bit different then those found in pump gasolines. A glance at the distillation specs for any given gasoline will reveal these differences in make-up.

When they mention that "...all gasolines are basically the same..." (yes, they do say that) they're assuming your context is limited to the pump gasolines confined to your region. What they really mean is: the pump gasolines in your region are all produced by a refinery to meet the same specifications. Recall that earlier in the program they mention that there are over 55 different gasoline specs in use all over the country with winter and summer blends of each. Each region of the country is only allowed to use a certain blend of gasoline. We have very tight regulations on what type of pump gasoline can be sold in various places. Some places get conventional gasolines, some places get reformulated gasolines, some places get "boutique" blends, etc.

So when they say "...all gasolines are basically the same..." it should not be taken literally or out of context. They gas you buy at the Shell station on one corner IS basically the same as the gas you buy at the Exxon station across the street--because it was all made at a refinery to meet the same specifications. But as soon as you're not limited to the gasoline specs the EPA or other government agencies require for where you live, then all bets are off. The gas I have in AZ is somewhat different then what someone in MA has and it's sure as heck different than most any racing gasoline. By different I mean it's made up of a different mix of hydrocarbons and "additives".

[flauge]

Just wondering.. has anybody ever heard of a "lazy burn condition". I remember reading about this somewhere a long time ago and i forgot what it was all about. I think it was something like the octane level being too high that it would make the air/fuel mixture hard to ignite....... or something like that :ermm: