Can Am DS450 Frame Info - Amazing!

[Z400central]

WOW!!!

NO WELDS!!!

No Weld Structure
A typical ATV frame is welded at the joints. But welding
drastically reduces the mechanical properties of aluminum.
Beefing up the members and adding gussets will help
aluminum maintain the desired strength after welding, but
both add weight. In order to build the lightest weight frame
using only aluminum, Can-Am figured out how to construct
its frame without a single weld.

Lock-Bolts
Instead of welds, the DS 450™ frame utilizes lock-bolts. A
lock-bolt is a two-piece fastener that provides a permanent
clamp that resists loosening. The “bolt” is pre-stretched and
the “nut” is basically pressed in place over the deep grooves
of the bolt shank. Since there are no threads, the assembly is
vibration resistant and can maintain clamping forces. In fact,
because of the quasi-infinite fatigue life of lock-bolts, Airbus
uses them to affix the 119-foot wings to their new A380, the
world’s largest aircraft.

Finite Element Analysis
Can-Am then balanced its revolutionary frame structure
using Finite Element Analysis (FEA). During the computerized
test, areas that appear in red indicate stress levels that
approach the limit of the material. Blue shows that the load
in an area is much less than the section can withstand.
Can-Am used the test to add material where needed and
remove it where possible to achieve the optimum balance.
Can-Am then balanced its revolutionary frame structure
using Finite Element Analysis (FEA). During the computerized
test, areas that appear in red indicate stress levels that
approach the limit of the material. Blue shows that the load
in an area is much less than the section can withstand.
Can-Am used the test to add material where needed and
remove it where possible to achieve the optimum balance.

Triangulated 3D Structure
Aluminum is much lighter than steel, but it also flexes a great
deal more. To build a rigid aluminum frame with the traditional
ATV ladder-type (box) geometry would require a great deal
of gusseting and thicker members to resist excessive strain.
But gussets and thick members add weight. And that defeats
the purpose of using aluminum in the first place. Can-Am
solved the problem by developing the first ATV frame with a
triangulated 3D structure that naturally converts loads to
pure tension and compression instead of bending.

Frame Type
ALTEC Twin Pyramidal frame with triangulated 3D structure*
Optimized through Finite Element Analysis (FEA)
Materials and Processes
Forged aluminum lower A-arm attachment
Cast aluminum hip members
Extruded aluminum beams
Stamped aluminum sub-frame*
Frame Construction
Mechanical Assembly – no weld structure*
Structural Fasteners
Aluminum, permanent, vibration-resistant Lock Bolts*
3/8" diameter (9.5 mm)
7075-T6 alloy bolt and 6061-T7 alloy nut
Developed with Alcoa Fastening Systems
* indicates industry first

http://yfzcentral.com/uploads/./userfiles/z400central/ds450frame.jpg

http://yfzcentral.com/uploads/./userfiles/z400central/ds450frame2.jpg

[250ex13]

I smell my future quad.:eek2: :D

[m.h.s.c.#527]

yea well we all know how good the DS 650 was i cant wait to see the guys to go jump all over these

[YFZ450Ridr]

that is top notch engineering right there. really bumps the bar up in the industry. all these new 450s are making honda and yamaha look bad, i guess their the only ones left that dont have efi or an aluminum or both. i cant wait for the entire sheet of specs on this thing!

[MX MaNiAc 06]

Im sure it will break just as easy as any other frame..

[MentalState]

yup sure looks sweet....I still cant wait for the new KTM quad...:)

[troutman561]

Originally posted by MX MaNiAc 06
Im sure it will break just as easy as any other frame..

Yea, but even if it does it is a frame that is much more technologically advanced than the current frames which are all based on 1980's technology(yes some are aluminum, but still, 80's technology in geometry and design). this is a step in the right direction into moving the technology bar even higher....

[norcalduner]

Hmmm.....if they can also put a 2 stroke rotax powervalve in that beauty :cool: id be the first in line :D

[ThePhantomRider]

The best part is they didn't skimp anywhere on this quad. The frame being revolutionary is just the start!

Also anyone look at the black shillouette of the DS with the frame highlighted??? I rotated it to the front view and I have to say, it looks like it's gonna have the longest front shocks of any stock quad!!!

I'm telling you, the rest of this thing is gonna rock!!!

TPR

[outacontrol]

looks good on paper, until you have to pull the motor. they left very little opening in the frame to work on or remove the motor!

[quads14589]

l like!

[Mxjunkie]

I wonder how the price's are going to be on it? they have to pay for all that R&D some how :p

[Ruby Soho]

reminds me of the 300ex frame alittle. just by the way it looks.

[STEVENJANNA]

Originally posted by MX MaNiAc 06
Im sure it will break just as easy as any other frame..
It looks to me like they had that in mind.:D It looks like a Tinker Toy, break or bend a section of the frame. just unbolt it and replace the damaged section.

[Tommy 17]

Finite Analysis is some pretty cool stuff... I've done a good bit of it at college mostly in my vibrations class... its amazing the stuff you can find out about a structure once you have the right number of elements, time steps, and eigenvalues!


the only thing i can see that i question on the frame is how the hell are u goin to get the motor out! haha theres a bar on each side and it don't seem like it can come out of the top or bottom either haha

[troutman561]

Wouldn't you think they made it so you can remove a section of the frame to get the motor out since, after all, it is not welded..

[WhiteYFZ]

i cant see the pics!!!:mad:

[underpowered]

Originally posted by MentalState
yup sure looks sweet....I still cant wait for the new KTM quad...:)

exactly. KTM will be the one to beat.

they may put all their money into the frame, but what about the motor? who knows about reliability of it.

[gncc025]

Originally posted by Tommy 17
Finite Analysis is some pretty cool stuff... I've done a good bit of it at college mostly in my vibrations class... its amazing the stuff you can find out about a structure once you have the right number of elements, time steps, and eigenvalues!


the only thing i can see that i question on the frame is how the hell are u goin to get the motor out! haha theres a bar on each side and it don't seem like it can come out of the top or bottom either haha

same here. i wrote a paper on FEA and u cant go wrong with it. it will help tremendously with the frame.although i think they need to focus on getting MORE POWER out of those stock 450s:D

[CRich[814]]

Originally posted by WhiteYFZ
i cant see the pics!!!:mad:

that really sucks.

looks pretty sick. honda and yami have to step it up soon. there names and reputations can only sell so much. innovation is here and they are left behind.

[300EXrider356]

It looks like in the video that it has ITP fonts, or a replica of them. Pretty cool.

[Dale512]

Underpowered; Rotax knows how to make reliable 4-Strokes, and very strong running ones at that.

[culichi]

the only thing that sucks its the fact thats harder to work on the engine because of all those aluminum chasis parts hanging

[mephyst]

Damn, I hate all this suspense of waiting week to week! I just want to see the thing hit the floors!!

[underpowered]

Originally posted by Dale512
Underpowered; Rotax knows how to make reliable 4-Strokes, and very strong running ones at that.

not every motor built is a good motor though. it is their first attempt at a high output, high revving sport quad engine. i am sure there will be bugs to work out. no doubt a rotax is a good motor, but i still have doubts.

[dober250R]

junk

[troutman561]

hater

[DOHC]

Originally posted by dober250R
junk :huh r u kidding me!

[450robot]

the bars blocking the engine seem to be removable, if you look, there are bolts there.

hopefully the bolts wont be those special lockers, i know i wouldnt want to take my frame to a dealer to have them put new ones on, because they dont offer the tool to fasten the bolts yourself

looks revolutionary though, should be interesting to see reports on these

cant wait to see the rest of the package they have to offer

this could be the greatest thing to happpen in ATV history, or i could also be the biggest FLOP in ATV history...we will see

[Unverfehrt400ex]

WOW It seems like just Yesterday when we thought their couldnt be much better than the YFZ or 450r. now honda and yamaha are actually behind. i cant imagine what things could be like 10 years from now.

[hondaracer31]

For those that question the motor, Rotax makes some of the fastest snowmobile motors in the world. They have the know-how to make a fast, reliable quad motor.

[Sjorge450R]

Originally posted by Unverfehrt400ex
WOW It seems like just Yesterday when we thought their couldnt be much better than the YFZ or 450r. now honda and yamaha are actually behind. i cant imagine what things could be like 10 years from now.

last time I checked, Honda is on top in MX and Yamaha in XC. Not Suzuki or Kawasaki. the R and the YFZ are great quads and they will probaly be staying close to the way they are right now sinec they are still out there winning.

"Dont fix something that ain't broken"

[Quad18star]

I wouldn't worry too much about the engine .... Rotax has a history of making a great product , just check out their snowmobile lineup , their 4x4 ATVs and their lineup of personal watercraft .

Their 4x4s come with a 3 year warranty from the factory .... that tells you a lot about how they stand behind their products. They've come out with this innovative chassis design , expect the engine to be a great performer also. BRP is all about Research and Development .... they've taking charge in just about every other industry with " never before seen" products and designs. They brought the Rider Forward REV chassis to the snowmobile industry , and the competition has all followed them making similar designs . BRP has a history of great products ..... buy it on Friday , Race it on Saturday .... take it out of the crate and it's ready for the track. I wouldn't expect nothing less from them this time around.

[swampfoxsc]

Originally posted by Sjorge300EX
last time I checked, Honda is on top in MX and Yamaha in XC. Not Suzuki or Kawasaki.

Check again, Borich is 4 in a row and has the points lead on a HONDA!:blah:


On a serious note, the Honda and Yamaha will continue to sell well regardless of whether or not they get big improvements. Their simplicity, reliability and ease to work on make them very appealing to the majority of racers and riders that do their own maintenance and modifications. As nice as the DS 450 seems to be, I'd still rather have a simple chromoly frame that I can repair at home. A retarded monkey can weld steel but aluminum and fancy bolts are a whole different problem.

[NorCalRacer]

Originally posted by Honda86
this could be the greatest thing to happpen in ATV history, or i could also be the biggest FLOP in ATV history...we will see

Yep, could be great, could be horrible. As far as strength goes, aluminum makes the best frames so it should be tough.... but it will remain to be seen. I think it looks like a kick *** idea:macho I can't wait to see how it does.

[NeedsaYfz]

I wouldn't worry too much about the engine .... Rotax has a history of making a great product , just check out their snowmobile lineup
Yeah just look at their 800r motor...that thing is the definition of reliable.

[mxraptor149]

last time I checked, Honda is on top in MX and Yamaha in XC. Not Suzuki or Kawasaki.

Last time I checked, Suzuki was holding 1,2,3 and 4 in the WPSA SuperQuad 450 with Weinen, Wimmer, Gust and Shumaker.

And yes, Borich won the last two XC overalls.

[jb500ex]

Originally posted by mxraptor149
Last time I checked, Suzuki was holding 1,2,3 and 4 in the WPSA SuperQuad 450 with Weinen, Wimmer, Gust and Shumaker.

And yes, Borich won the last two XC overalls.
remember natalie won the first and thing's changes when he got injured and borich has won 4 in a row not 2

[Sjorge450R]

well yeah i mean honda is on top now in the GNCC and i support borich alot (D-6 rider) but i was just talking championships.

[hsr]

Originally posted by swampfoxsc
Check again, Borich is 4 in a row and has the points lead on a HONDA!:blah:


On a serious note, the Honda and Yamaha will continue to sell well regardless of whether or not they get big improvements. Their simplicity, reliability and ease to work on make them very appealing to the majority of racers and riders that do their own maintenance and modifications. As nice as the DS 450 seems to be, I'd still rather have a simple chromoly frame that I can repair at home. A retarded monkey can weld steel but aluminum and fancy bolts are a whole different problem.

Excellent point, paying $6,500-$7,000 for a new bike and having to WELD the frame when it breaks, and replace damn near every component on it to make it 'race-ready'. The only thing that is truely race ready on the honda and yamaha are the motors. Well I don't know about you but I'm sick and tired of patching and reparing these POS outdated steel frames. From the looks of it the aluminum frame with fancy bolts has alot of engineering behind it, and there really hopefully shouldn't be any issues.

[wishmasstir]

i was looking at the pictures and it looks like you wont need a chassis skidplate because its built it so the motor would be protected good at least from the factory. i see the bottom a-arm mounting points but not the top, maybe i'm missing something

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by 450robot
the bars blocking the engine seem to be removable, if you look, there are bolts there.

hopefully the bolts wont be those special lockers, i know i wouldnt want to take my frame to a dealer to have them put new ones on, because they dont offer the tool to fasten the bolts yourself

looks revolutionary though, should be interesting to see reports on these

cant wait to see the rest of the package they have to offer

The dealers definitely won't have the equipment for putting one of those aluminum bolts into place. The equipment for stretching those bolts and cutting off the excess has to be expensive...many dealers don't even have axle wrenches so they can properly torque the axle nuts. I can seriously name 3 of them off the top of my head...but I am not looking for any enemies so I won't post. They know who they are...to them I say pick up a Rocky Mountain catalog and order them for $15 for goodness sakes. For anyone that has a dealership put new axle bearings in, make them show you the wrenches or go elsewhere.



/Jon

[54warrior]

Originally posted by wishmasstir
i was looking at the pictures and it looks like you wont need a chassis skidplate because its built it so the motor would be protected good at least from the factory. i see the bottom a-arm mounting points but not the top, maybe i'm missing something

That's a great observation. Where are the upper arm mounts at? Maybe this is an "older" picture and not what's going into production.

If you do look closely, the upper arms might mount farther inward on the frame than the conventional mounting points? You can almost see what looks like a rear mount for the upper a-arm if you look really close, but it's hard to tell if there is one for the front. HMMM...

http://yfzcentral.com/uploads/userfiles/z400central/ds450frame6.jpg

Who knows---wait and see~

[Steve-O]

after looking at the frame again I wonder how the gas tank is going to be mounted also.

so far it looks to be bad azzzzz. kiss our steel frames goodbye finally

[wishmasstir]

it will probably go over the frame like a dirt bike gas tank. the old quadsports had a single upper frame rail and the tanks went down over that also

[parkers30]

Originally posted by 54warrior
That's a great observation. Where are the upper arm mounts at? Maybe this is an "older" picture and not what's going into production.

If you do look closely, the upper arms might mount farther inward on the frame than the conventional mounting points? You can almost see what looks like a rear mount for the upper a-arm if you look really close, but it's hard to tell if there is one for the front. HMMM...

http://yfzcentral.com/uploads/userfiles/z400central/ds450frame6.jpg

Who knows---wait and see~

Look at that photo more closely and you will see the front and rear mount tabs for a similiar a-arm design to the Yamahas. The front mount is on the piece that looks something like a bumper mount.

As for people talking about 'unbolting' the frame, they way they talk about these fasteners they are not something that the consumer or probably even the dealer can remove. They come across as a press-lock fastener more like a rivet. With a highly triangulated frame lik that if one piece bend it is taking everything attached to it with it , so don't count on modular frame sections being available.


They appear to be applying some of their Aerospace industry know how to ATV's which could be great or a complete blunder. Aerospace = $$$$$ hopefully it doesn't carry it price tag with it.

[wishmasstir]

i was thinking that could be the mounting point but it just seems odd to have an a-arm mount being the most forward part on the frame and being a few inches wider than the lower a-arm

[54warrior]

I'd like to see quick release rear fenders like the 250R/300EX/400EX as well. I personally think that is a great feature to have on a quad-regardless if they tend to flop around a bit more or not. It makes things so much easier to get to.

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by parkers30


They appear to be applying some of their Aerospace industry know how to ATV's which could be great or a complete blunder. Aerospace = $$$$$ hopefully it doesn't carry it price tag with it.

That's what they're doing . Put it this way ... if they can make 60 foot long airplane wings hold up to the abuse of flex and hard jolts at 700 mph with this type of design and technology , I wouldn't worry about how it's going to hold up to the abuse of a few hard hits on a track.

[ThePhantomRider]

You will all find out how the front end works Friday night!!!:D

Now the good part having Can-Am tap into the Lear Jet side is they have the technology and tooling knowlege to get this done. Once in place the actually assembly cost and time are lower than that of a welded frame with greater QC.

While Honda was making lawnmowers, Yamaha was making Guitars, Kawasaki was making Cordless Drills and Suzuki was making Pianos, Can-Am was figuring how to incorporate aerospace tech to an ATV....:D


TPR

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
You will all find out how the front end works Friday night!!!:D

Now the good part having Can-Am tap into the Lear Jet side is they have the technology and tooling knowlege to get this done. Once in place the actually assembly cost and time are lower than that of a welded frame with greater QC.

While Honda was making lawnmowers, Yamaha was making Guitars, Kawasaki was making Cordless Drills and Suzuki was making Pianos, Can-Am was figuring how to incorporate aerospace tech to an ATV....:D


TPR

That's what we Canadians do best ...... lay low ... let everyone come out with their " best" technologically advanced machines, then we blow them out of the water and set a new standard in the industry. :devil:

I've heard a LOT of talk about the suspension design in the last little while and I'm sure people will be impressed from what I've heard. Like BRP said .... if it's not the best design and machine out there , they wouldn't make it.... the machine will be in full production shortly. :cool:

Set a new standard and watch the competition scramble . I love it !!!!:devil:

[54warrior]

Originally posted by Quad18star
Set a new standard and watch the competition scramble . I love it !!!!:devil:


LOL, they'll scramble allright- just like an egg!!!!

I jumped on the Cannondale bandwagon and not afraid to say that I'm already loving what I see here. I think that Can-Am actually has the ability to make a mark though-unlike Cannondale. It looks like they've done their homework. Definitely some fresh thinking-I like. It's about time.

[ThePhantomRider]

I don't want anyone to get the impression that I think any less of the big 4. I really like all their products....I just have known that this will the the quad to have for a while and have waited to see it to fruition.

I also agree that Cannondale was a revolutionary moment in atv racing. My dad has one with full updates and that thing rips. Given another 5 years and enough capital it would have become what it was meant to be, but we know how that story ended.

Now you have Can-Am, with the technology, and capacity to challege the big guns and beat them at their own game. Hopefully this will inspire the other manufacturers (aside from Kawi) to start to progress with the 450 atv's as they do with the 450 motorcycles.

TPR