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OutlawBill
05-07-2007, 08:44 AM
I think it will have Bilstein shocks on it

rollie
05-07-2007, 02:11 PM
haha not to disagree with you again, please dont take any offense to my opinons.

I think the blistiens would make the price way higher and they would have to valve them all the same so they i dont think they would put expensive parts on the quad. for a small amount of people they would be awsome, but for the majority of people they would be too soft/hard

However if you where to say team Can-AM would be running the blistien shocks with Epic a-arms i would agree with you, simply because thats what there running on the outlanders.

OutlawBill
05-07-2007, 02:38 PM
no offense taken just try to get people talking

yamadjs08
05-07-2007, 03:02 PM
Probably Arvins like what are on the DS650, just a better adjustable version with rezzies...

By the way, I think Arvins are junk for the most part... :o

ThePhantomRider
05-07-2007, 03:02 PM
The stock shocks could be built and designed by Bilstein like Showa does for Honda etc. It would be a solid standard shock with all the current adjustments.

That said, the aftermarket Bilsteins that are going to be out soon will likely be less expensive than the competition and will not have nor need the mulitude of springs and adjusters more and more shock companies are resorting to becuse they can't get valving right or use adjusters that modulate by constriction as opposed to using true adjustment devices that give a truly usable rage of adjustments.

TPR

OutlawBill
05-07-2007, 03:58 PM
Here is a new idea build a better stock shocks that 80% of the rider will never max out. Then for the other 20% , have kits that can be installed for the different type of racing and adjusted to the riders skill level and weight.

ThePhantomRider
05-07-2007, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by yamadjs08
Probably Arvins like what are on the DS650, just a better adjustable version with rezzies...

By the way, I think Arvins are junk for the most part... :o

I don't know, if they made an atv application of these shocks you might just change your mind.

Arvin Ryde Fx Air 2.0 (http://www.rydefxair2.com/)

That said I doubt anything like this would come stock.


TPR

OutlawBill
05-07-2007, 04:41 PM
Looks like the improved version of the Fox Float which I like on my DS730

ThePhantomRider
05-07-2007, 05:02 PM
I think they wouldn't need the ice scrapers on them tho....

TPR

ThePhantomRider
05-07-2007, 05:03 PM
I think they wouldn't need the ice scrapers on them tho....

TPR

LTR450_#67
05-07-2007, 05:28 PM
What if he was ice racing?????....just playing lol!

It's probably got Ohlins on it.

dg26
05-08-2007, 01:08 PM
elka and stadium are both canadian suspension companies, if can-am was smart they would just put race quality shocks from the factory and bump the price up a bit.

ThePhantomRider
05-08-2007, 01:32 PM
If I was to chose Elka or Bilstein, it would be Bilstein all the way. They can do more with 1 spring and 2 adjusters than Elka can with 4 springs and 4 adjusters.


TPR

pats2007450er
05-08-2007, 05:03 PM
i take it that you have never priced stadium's.stadium's are outrageous.they need to use triple rated springs on stock shock's.stadium's are nice but it's not going to happen.

Colby@C&DRacing
05-09-2007, 08:39 AM
Some of the stadium stuff is higher than others but at least with stadium you are getting what you pay for.

As for the DS450 I hope they use something rebuildable and tunable. As the OEM's get better and better, the average rider needs to spend less to get good performance from their suspension.

ThePhantomRider
05-09-2007, 09:44 AM
Well, from the picture I saw cleaned up from a still from the video, you can clearly see they do have rezzies. I think it would be foolish to think they would have non-rebuildable shocks on the DS 450.

Again, I point to the comment that the stock shocks need to be tripple rate...If your shocks are valved and dampened correctly, you only need one spring...if you want to lower the ride height without sacrificing travel, then 2 tops...

The more springs and adjusters your shocks need the less they know about how to properly valve shocks. That is a known fact, so while Elka makes a decent shock that sure looks perty, 4 adjusters and 4 springs means what's on the inside don't work too well.

TPR

quadjeff
05-09-2007, 09:52 AM
The test bikes had Bilsteins. The DS450 is going to be a very nice quad. The Power plant is solid and fast. The test quads had alumimum frames.. Things can change. So what else can I tell you? The west coast has had test riders on the quads since last fall. Should be cool to see some new blood. I am not supposed to say much.. Sorry..

ThePhantomRider
05-09-2007, 10:53 AM
Let's just clear somthing up as far as Bilstein goes, and this is not a sceret, but may not be known to some people, but Bilstein designed and produces the shocks for the Renegade. Those are production units, like Showa or Kabaya. They are not the full race, but a solid generic unit.

If Showa wanted to make a full race shock, they could easily make one much better than most of the aftermarket can offer, but since their production levels are so high, there is no need for a niche product.

TPR

ThePhantomRider
05-09-2007, 10:53 AM
Let's just clear somthing up as far as Bilstein goes, and this is not a sceret, but may not be known to some people, but Bilstein designed and produces the shocks for the Renegade. Those are production units, like Showa or Kabaya. They are not the full race, but a solid generic unit.

If Showa wanted to make a full race shock, they could easily make one much better than most of the aftermarket can offer, but since their production levels are so high, there is no need for a niche product.

TPR

Colby@C&DRacing
05-10-2007, 08:42 AM
I agree that a shock can be dialed in using one spring and no adjuster, But in the real world a shock company that is selling shocks all over the world and can't spend countless hours with each rider getting everything setup perfect for that rider and his riding stlye has to have adjuster to allow for fine tuning by the end user. Granted some shock will never be right no matter the amount of adjustment, but by to lump all shock manufactures into one group and saying if they have mutiple springs and adjuster they don't know what they are doing is wrong. :(

xsr_racing28c
05-10-2007, 09:42 AM
This topic will be talk and talked about til the day the machine is fully reveiled, but IMO I think that Can Am will probably be using some sort of KYB or HPG fully adjustable type shocks.

Can Am's brother Ski Doo uses fully adjustable hi and lo speed compression shocks on there race sleds and I have owned 4 of there race sleds and I can tell you that these stock shocks on there sleds are top of the line. Many racers never change them out unless they have a large sponsor by a shock manufacturer, but these shocks have been great and thats why I think that Can Am may use them on there new 450 racer....

Just my .02

~Jay

ThePhantomRider
05-10-2007, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by Colby@C&DRacing
I agree that a shock can be dialed in using one spring and no adjuster, But in the real world a shock company that is selling shocks all over the world and can't spend countless hours with each rider getting everything setup perfect for that rider and his riding stlye has to have adjuster to allow for fine tuning by the end user. Granted some shock will never be right no matter the amount of adjustment, but by to lump all shock manufactures into one group and saying if they have mutiple springs and adjuster they don't know what they are doing is wrong. :(

Maybe I came across as a basher of the aftermarket, so I'd like to explain a bit better and I agree that you can't have a tech be with you for countless hours for tuning, I just feel most aftermarket shocks are generic at best till a good tuner like you guys are get a hold of them.

That said, and you should know this, 2 shock builders with the same information can come up with 2 completely different things. One comes up with 4 springs and 4 adjusters to fiddle and tinker with to get it right and the other uses 2 springs and 2 adjusters that actually make correct adjustments.

A good shock tuner will tell you that you can acomplish the same thing with less adjusters and springs if the internal valving is A) quality in design and B) Accurately set up when ordered. Most get it close.

Truth be told, if I ever wanted a killer shock that would do what I wanted built by any manufacturer, it would be a KYB or Showa.
Just look at most factory motocross guys...modified stock suspension.

TPR

Colby@C&DRacing
05-10-2007, 12:52 PM
I agree with that. :)

TWILES
05-11-2007, 11:50 AM
The guy who owns Works Performance is the only person I've ever heard say that and I didn't hear it straight from him. I heard it from the guy who ordered my shocks for me 10 years ago. He knew the guy pretty good from the past.

TWILES
05-11-2007, 11:51 AM
The guy who owns Works Performance is the only person I've ever heard say that and I didn't hear it straight from him. I heard it from the guy who ordered my shocks for me 10 years ago. He knew the guy pretty good from the past.

Toadz400
05-12-2007, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by TWILES
The guy who owns Works Performance is the only person I've ever heard say that and I didn't hear it straight from him. I heard it from the guy who ordered my shocks for me 10 years ago. He knew the guy pretty good from the past.

That's kinda ironic because Works have the worst internals out there.

MXRACER86
05-13-2007, 10:00 PM
will this thing be 50 inches???????

TWILES
05-14-2007, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Toadz400
That's kinda ironic because Works have the worst internals out there.

Works makes all kinds of shocks. They don't make all their money off racing like the others. They do a lot of replacement shocks for old stuff like the old MX/trail bikes and streetbikes. In other catagories they probably have the best internals. I bought mine 10 years ago and then you had PEP, Works, WhiteBro's, and Ohlins to pick from and there was Axis if you wanted to spend that much money. PEP and Axis are the only two that you really see anymore. I wouldn't even know where to try to get Ohlins.

ThePhantomRider
05-14-2007, 12:58 PM
Ohlins are still quite available, Axis is now owned by Penske so they have some $$$ to back them up. Also Elka is out there, WP is still out there, but not into atv's.

Bilstein is working towards entering the ATV market as we speak with some awesome product.

As to what the DS will have it's anyone's guess, but I would bet the farm that whoever builds them, will be building the best stock shocks currently on a sport atv.

TPR

TWILES
05-14-2007, 02:17 PM
I thought Penke had always owned Axis.

I don't know where to even look at Ohlins. Their site didn't show anything the last time I looked.

I know WP is still there because they do the KTM suspension but they DON'T for quads. I think I already knew that.

Elka's are OK. I had a set when they first started making them for quads and I liked them but I like the feel of a single-spring shock better. I'd love to have another set of Ohlins. I had a set on my 250R and they had a very precice feel all the time and they were the original style. I can't imagine what the new one's would be like.

"Bilstein" I have never heard of these. I've probably seen them and didn't know what they were.

ThePhantomRider
05-14-2007, 03:49 PM
Bilstein is shoulder to shoulder to FOX when you think of off road technology. They also build shocks for cars and trucks for street use.

They along with FOX have been on more desert winners than anyone else and their ability to get shocks to work as they need too is top rate.

They have been in development for a line of ATV shocks and they follow the addage of proper valving and internal design will necessitate less adjusters (which cost money) and less springs (Again more money) 1-2 springs is all they use.


TPR

mephyst
05-14-2007, 10:57 PM
All I know is that the Billstein's on my motorhome are amazinggggggg!

54warrior
05-15-2007, 05:50 AM
Bilsteins.......ROCK!

I just installed a set of Bilstein Rear Shocks on my truck. They were $90 each. It is a complete 180* from stock. MUCH MUCH BETTER!!! Hopefully they come out with new coilovers for the front soon!

I haven't heard alot abot the TCS shocks lately. Did they fall off the scene or what?

I had Ohlins on my C'Dale-great shocks. The neighbor has WP dual rate shocks on his 250R. They are probably 12-15 years old. Great shocks. My other friend also has PEP ZPS front/rear on his R. He loves them. I believe they are just re-valved Works shocks though correct?


http://www.titantalk.com/forums/attachments/titan-suspension/42077-installed-bilstein-rear-shocks-res01330.jpg

Colby@C&DRacing
05-15-2007, 08:47 AM
Actually TCS makes some of the best properly valved shocks available. www.tcsracing.com

Quad18star
05-15-2007, 09:30 AM
You'll see a set of HPG C-36 Racing shocks that are fully adjustable on this machine. :cool:

hsr
05-15-2007, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Quad18star
You'll see a set of HPG C-36 Racing shocks that are fully adjustable on this machine. :cool:

HPG C-36 ??? who manufactures these shocks. will they be a single rate?

54warrior
05-16-2007, 05:25 AM
Originally posted by hsr
HPG C-36 ??? who manufactures these shocks. will they be a single rate?


I did an internet search and didn't come up with much, other than they are on alot of snowmobiles and seem to be top of the line. There apparently is no website for them?

OutlawBill
05-16-2007, 08:21 AM
http://www.ohlins.com/ATV/Products/ProductGuide/tabid/85/Default.aspx

300ex07
05-29-2007, 12:39 PM
If you go to driveline and rear suspension and then go to In-Depth Information on the ds450 website it tells you they will be KYB shocks. Under rear shock it says KYB HPG piggyback aluminum body with compression and rebound clickers and threaded pre-load adjustment

ThePhantomRider
05-29-2007, 04:30 PM
Finally someone else that actually saw and read the fact sheet!!!


TPR

PlayHard
05-29-2007, 08:38 PM
I bought my Ohlins at hardracing.com

http://www.hardracing.com/DIRT&ATV/DIRT%20Shocks%20&%20Steering%20Damp/OhlinsATV.htm

They are helpful and set you up with the Ohlins USA people for setup.

Quad18star
05-30-2007, 06:41 AM
Did I not tell you all that this machine was going to have a set of HPG shocks that are fully adjustable??

Ahhhh ... it pays to know people that work in the industry . :devil:

Just wait till you see what's next . You'll all be quite surprised and impressed. :cool:

54warrior
05-30-2007, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by Quad18star
Just wait till you see what's next . You'll all be quite surprised and impressed. :cool:

So it's not really a four stroke?? It's a two-stroke? LOL


Any hints?

Toadz400
05-30-2007, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by 54warrior
So it's not really a four stroke?? It's a two-stroke? LOL


Any hints?

Three stroke maybe??:eek2: