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OutlawBill
05-07-2007, 04:57 AM
I think it will have a SST frame like the Outlander

rollie
05-07-2007, 02:05 PM
i highly, highly doubt it will have that type of frame, im going to say its aluminum.

OutlawBill
05-07-2007, 02:13 PM
To be the lightest they will have too due something out of the box. How about a aluminum SST frame.

yamadjs08
05-07-2007, 03:06 PM
To be honest, I'm clueless. If they are claiming the lightest 450, they are going to have something unique. While I'm sure an SST frame is possible, nobody has really seen one on a sport quad... It will definitely be interesting...:cool:

culichi
05-07-2007, 03:17 PM
but if they continue to make this frames ligther the will break more:ermm:

LTR450_#67
05-07-2007, 03:18 PM
They have been at this since 2001. Which is before the Cdales and other 450s. So really they had no clue where to start except to be better than a 400EX. I'm guessing the final concept was to be better than the YFZ or a Cdale and go from there. I really doubt they would start over after seeing the LTR or KFX and try building a whole new quad to beat them in a one year or 6 months.

rollie
05-07-2007, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by LTR450_#67
They have been at this since 2001. Which is before the Cdales and other 450s. So really they had no clue where to start except to be better than a 400EX. I'm guessing the final concept was to be better than the YFZ or a Cdale and go from there. I really doubt they would start over after seeing the LTR or KFX and try building a whole new quad to beat them in a one year or 6 months.

No, but im sure they tweaked it a little after the LTR, possibly added a few inches to the width or something relativly simple.

ThePhantomRider
05-07-2007, 03:24 PM
This is completely abstract and nothing I have heard points to this, but to truly be revolutionary perhaps a multipiece frame like the Raptor 700 with aluminum and chrome moly...maybe the lower rail is chro-mo to be compact and take a bashing like the lower part of the SST while the upper is more traditional split frame design out of alloy.

Really though we will see the frame on the 12th anyway.

TPR

Dill
05-07-2007, 04:07 PM
for those of us who don't know, what does SST stand for?

OutlawBill
05-07-2007, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by Dill
for those of us who don't know, what does SST stand for?

Surrounding Spar Technology. It is a continuous steel frame the fellows the center line of the quad using fewer welds, less material and less weight

LTR450_#67
05-07-2007, 05:21 PM
I highly doubt it will use the SST chassis platform, cuz it's not IRS. IMO the SST chassis wouldn't have the torsional resistance to take on a swinger and solid axle.

soilworker
05-07-2007, 05:55 PM
Some information is incorrect. They have been at it since around 01 but I was told 02 about 3yrs ago by a rep at the dealer ride.

C'Dale had a quad for sale in 2001 already and the YFZ/450R were already in the works. So they were basically the 4th one to come to the 450 class table. Will be the 6th to hit the market though it appears.

So my point is that they might not have had a working quad to test against, except a C'Dale, but they new other manufacturers were building and that they'd be based on the bike engines. So they weren't exactly in the dark.

I would expect EFI w/that much development and an alum frame as well, but we'll see.

First Outlander
05-08-2007, 09:25 AM
Look at the new BMW dirt bike(go to thmpertalk under exotics) and check out that motor, no doubt it's the trick new EFI 450 rotax. I'll bet that's the motor going in the quad, also it's being released just after the DS 450. Other manufactures want that motor like Buel, H-D and Aprilla.
We will know soon enough!

ThePhantomRider
05-08-2007, 11:47 AM
I'm not too sure about that....The cylinder on the BMW is tilted waay forward which could cause packaging issues in an atv chassis....then again, on the BMW it's used as a structural piece and if they were to use a modified SST chassis, they could be the first to go with using the engine as one of the structural pieces..

However, pay attention to this....where does the chain look like it is on the right hand side if I'm not mistaken, the chain is on the left side of the BMW.

xsr_racing28c
05-08-2007, 12:02 PM
Lets put it this way.. BRP dropped nearly 65 lbs on average on all of there snowmobiles for 08, so I don't think the title of the lightest machine is too far off. They seem to know what they have to do and do a good job at it!!

~Jay

ThePhantomRider
05-08-2007, 01:06 PM
I agree and have said all along that one of the big surprises was that Can-Am would pull off the lightest machine and probably by a substantial amount, not like 349 vs. 350 but probably at least 10-15lbs.


TPR

LTR450_#67
05-08-2007, 04:34 PM
I'm thinking not and if the do it's not gonna last.

Snow is softer than dirt.

ThePhantomRider
05-08-2007, 04:59 PM
So you believe that there never will be a 450 under 350lbs that would be reliable? That seems really quite narrow minded. I realize that Kawasaki added an alloy frame to the mix and ended up with the heaviest quad (why go with more exotic materials when you go backward in performance) but to think that with a little more out of the box engineering and a nip here and tuck there 340 could be attainable and very reliable.


TPR

LTR450_#67
05-08-2007, 06:39 PM
I'm sorry I'm narrow minded, I hope I'm wrong. I just look at it this way. The old 250Rs were about 330lbs dry stock. Add all your aftermarket parts (except an aftermarket frame)and it goes up more than you think (lets say 350lbs with fluids). Those frames with them light 2-stroke engines still still cracked/broke unless you were a good smooth rider. I'm not trying to turn this into an arguement, it's just how I look at. Some of you look at the LTR and say it's heavy at 368lbs but look at it.....It's already widened out and it's only 4lbs heavier than the aluminum framed (with an aluminum swinger) KFX450. The stock shocks on the LTR are big and heavy, ok add some Fox Evols in the front and whatever in the rear. The swingarm on the LTR is also built overkill and heavy so put a lighter yet stronger chromoly swinger on. (yes I know, I own an LTR but I think I make good points.

Tell me how you look at it.

Aaron

07250ex
05-08-2007, 06:45 PM
whats a sst frame?

OutlawBill
05-08-2007, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by 07250ex
whats a sst frame?

check page1

yamadjs08
05-08-2007, 08:40 PM
One thing that I have noticed out of the whole thing, is the number of negative responses about this new quad, or any new 450 it seems. Kinda similar to when the KFX450r was first coming out. Has to be something wrong with it, no way it can do this or that, man that things ugly, and many more. Like what is on the market is the best that can be done and there is no way something could be done better... Please... :rolleyes:

It's like people are scared that there could be a machine coming out that might totally dominate what they own now. :o

LTR450_#67
05-08-2007, 09:37 PM
I ain't scared.....I've been skeptical about every new 4-stroke made since the 400EX. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong. There won't be a domination as they are all competitive. Pick your weapon of choice.....

don_carallo
05-09-2007, 03:19 AM
..to made him the lightest 450..what about an aluminium engine? what about titanium parts?

any 450 has aluminium a-arm, for example, or aluminium engine (i think)

at the moment, new engines are of aluminium, why not a quad with an aluminium engine?

bradley300
05-09-2007, 06:41 AM
Originally posted by ThePhantomRider

However, pay attention to this....where does the chain look like it is on the right hand side if I'm not mistaken, the chain is on the left side of the BMW.

so where the cannondales, so whats the issue?

bradley300
05-09-2007, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by LTR450_#67
I'm sorry I'm narrow minded, I hope I'm wrong. I just look at it this way. The old 250Rs were about 330lbs dry stock. Add all your aftermarket parts (except an aftermarket frame)and it goes up more than you think (lets say 350lbs with fluids). Those frames with them light 2-stroke engines still still cracked/broke unless you were a good smooth rider.

Tell me how you look at it.

Aaron

what you are thinking of tho, is a 15 year old frame being pushed WAY past what riders could do when it was new. anyone will tell you all the racing series have gained major speed in every class in 15 years. any mfg. would be ignorant to notice this and not build a quad designed for the abuses it will be under. aslo, i dont know if it was c-dale, or aluminum in general, but the cdale frames are incredibly strong, ive heard of 3 crack, so aluminum could be a good choice

bradley300
05-09-2007, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
. I realize that Kawasaki added an alloy frame to the mix and ended up with the heaviest quad (why go with more exotic materials when you go backward in performance)
TPR

kawasaki wanted to have reverse, re enforcing rings and i thing a a few other non conventional stock racing accesories w/o being the heaviest race quad, i'm pretty sure the ltr, 450r and kfx are all pretty close. with a steal frame the kfx would have been heaviest by far

bradley300
05-09-2007, 06:53 AM
Originally posted by LTR450_#67
I highly doubt it will use the SST chassis platform, cuz it's not IRS. IMO the SST chassis wouldn't have the torsional resistance to take on a swinger and solid axle.

have you ever seen an old lt230 quadrunner? it has sort of a hybrid conventional/sst frame. the top of the frame is 1 rail right down the middle and splits to a more covential looking frame at the back and front. no doubt its lighter than a full on conventiional frame, but its still wide at the rear where the swinger bolts up to give a little torsionality (i thinki just made up a new word!:D )

they could do something similair to that from chromoly or aluminum

soonerlightning
05-09-2007, 07:58 AM
oh I know I bet its 100% carbonfiber. Stronger than steel and many many times lighter.

54warrior
05-09-2007, 08:14 AM
The whole weight issue always makes me laugh. People are crying about 2# here and 10# there. Alot of us, myself included, could easily lose that extra 10-15#. I am not concerned though becuase I'm 6'7" and 270+ lbs. Even if I do lose some weight, I'll always be at a weight disadvantage.

Cannondale frames are extremely strong.

Someone else was spot on when they claimed that everyone is just worried because something new is coming out that will be better than what they have.

Regardless, anything new is great for everyone. It just pushes the envelope even farther.


I hope that this quad or the KTM are 10# lighter, have more HP, are reliable, and FORCE the Big 4 to go back to the drawing board. Something that is entirely possible.

bradley300
05-09-2007, 09:17 AM
i alsothink weight is much more of a non issue. between the 450's, you wont notice any real difference between any of them. obviously the difference between a blaster and an outlander is pretty noticeable, but not between such a small group of simialr quads. my geuss is the weights arent always right anyway. i dont think there is anyway a stock yfz weighs 350 lbs, but peope beleive it because thats what it printed

ThePhantomRider
05-09-2007, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by bradley300
so where the cannondales, so whats the issue?

It's not an issue, but people that have been scrutinizing what little they can glean from stills from the video claim that the chain is on the right side of the quad.

If that's true then the motor in the BMW I posted is different (at least the bottom end is) as it's chain is on the left side.

Personally I worked on a DS chassis back in 2002 as an exercise where we came up with several ideas on maximizing travel by eliminating chain tension changes. The best idea was having the pivot point be the centerline of the counter sprocket. Our issue was that we had no way of building it, so we built one with a 3 link rear end with a floating carrier. Cycled out at 21" of travel, and very little chain tension changes. Too bad we never finished the project.

BMW adopted the same idea and was able to build the bike around the concept.

TPR

TPR

ThePhantomRider
05-09-2007, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by 54warrior
The whole weight issue always makes me laugh. People are crying about 2# here and 10# there. Alot of us, myself included, could easily lose that extra 10-15#. I am not concerned though becuase I'm 6'7" and 270+ lbs. Even if I do lose some weight, I'll always be at a weight disadvantage.

Cannondale frames are extremely strong.

Someone else was spot on when they claimed that everyone is just worried because something new is coming out that will be better than what they have.

Regardless, anything new is great for everyone. It just pushes the envelope even farther.


I hope that this quad or the KTM are 10# lighter, have more HP, are reliable, and FORCE the Big 4 to go back to the drawing board. Something that is entirely possible.

I'm with you....by the time I finally get one, I'll be down 40lbs which is huge!!!

TPR

ThePhantomRider
05-09-2007, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by bradley300
have you ever seen an old lt230 quadrunner? it has sort of a hybrid conventional/sst frame. the top of the frame is 1 rail right down the middle and splits to a more covential looking frame at the back and front. no doubt its lighter than a full on conventiional frame, but its still wide at the rear where the swinger bolts up to give a little torsionality (i thinki just made up a new word!:D )

they could do something similair to that from chromoly or aluminum

The quadracers were like that too, big monotube upper that split in the front and down the sides.

If they use a SST style chassis, I'd expect some additional bracing around the rear suspension, maybe a hybrid SST/cradle style frame.

Be assured, they have done every bit of homework on every aspect of this bike.

TPR

ThePhantomRider
05-09-2007, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by bradley300
i alsothink weight is much more of a non issue. between the 450's, you wont notice any real difference between any of them. obviously the difference between a blaster and an outlander is pretty noticeable, but not between such a small group of simialr quads. my geuss is the weights arent always right anyway. i dont think there is anyway a stock yfz weighs 350 lbs, but peope beleive it because thats what it printed

Not really true. Just like their 2 wheeled counterparts, these are meant for the weekend rider and the racer to modify.

Look at Supercross....they use so much unobtanium, titanium, magnesium etc to get the weight down because at the end of the day, there is only so much power a 450 can put out while still being 450cc's and durable enough to finish a race. Now all you're left with is how much more weight can you save. Less weight means better performance...acceleration, handling and jumping.

Also take a note from "Lightest Unsprung weight" that's going to help alot in how the suspension reacts. Less unsprung weight means less feedback from the suspension so it can do it's job better.

TPR

ThePhantomRider
05-09-2007, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by bradley300
i alsothink weight is much more of a non issue. between the 450's, you wont notice any real difference between any of them. obviously the difference between a blaster and an outlander is pretty noticeable, but not between such a small group of simialr quads. my geuss is the weights arent always right anyway. i dont think there is anyway a stock yfz weighs 350 lbs, but peope beleive it because thats what it printed

Not really true. Just like their 2 wheeled counterparts, these are meant for the weekend rider and the racer to modify.

Look at Supercross....they use so much unobtanium, titanium, magnesium etc to get the weight down because at the end of the day, there is only so much power a 450 can put out while still being 450cc's and durable enough to finish a race. Now all you're left with is how much more weight can you save. Less weight means better performance...acceleration, handling and jumping.

Also take a note from "Lightest Unsprung weight" that's going to help alot in how the suspension reacts. Less unsprung weight means less feedback from the suspension so it can do it's job better.

TPR

LTR450_#67
05-09-2007, 10:24 AM
Bradley300 - Yes I have seen the old quadsport and quadracer frames. I have one of each. They hold up well, but then again I never really pushed them. The backbone mono tube is pretty big too. I liked how it dubbed as a snorkel on them. CanAm could make a concept similar to it I guess. Just reinforce where the peg bolts go (the quadracer frames were weak there), have better front end geometry and voila.

Yeah I always wondered if the YFZ is really 350lbs....According to the ATK website the their 450MX quad is 370lbs<---Those are basically the new Cdales right?

Aaron

bradley300
05-09-2007, 10:27 AM
lets think about the "unsprung" weight for a second. what all can that be? pretty sure ive listed most things, but i could be wrong

brakes- i cant think there will be anything out of the ordinanary here, but maybe wave rotors, maybe even drilled ones to save a little weight

hubs- aluminum i would expect, but i know there are/were some carbon compoite hubs on the market at one time, if they hold up, they would be neat, and light.

spindles- i'd think aluminum , which is nothing new

wheels and tires- who wont replace these anyway, not to mention add tireballs. stock wheels and tires are very light, so whatever they get replaced with will be much heavier

swingarm-aluminum like everyone elses, not much you can do to make the same product lighter from quad to quad, assuming they are similar length. i'd say it ill be a honda style like everyone elses

a-arms-also, been proven that even aluminum uppers arent great, but i geuss they would work, for the lowers, i'd say they would be mild steel or chromoly, again, nothing out of the ordinary

tierods-aluminum at worst, but i would rather they be stronger than that

tierod ends-not much you can do with theses. they could be heims like a laeger t-pin, but those arent real durable for anything where loose dirt or snd is involved

linkage-maybe its a no link, that would save some weight

axle- its been proven enuff that aluminum axles dont hold up well, and what ever its made of, unless you race xc or trail ride it will be replaced quickly

chain and sprockets- again, nice until they wear, then everyone will replace them anyway.

misc. nuts, bearings and bolts- these could be titanium

It all sounds nice and will get alot of hype, but with the exception of the spindles and anything madef rom some exotic metal, i think everything they could do to shed unsprung weight, anyone could (and most do) do to thier own quad thru the aftermarket

bradley300
05-09-2007, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by LTR450_#67
Bradley300 - Yes I have seen the old quadsport and quadracer frames. I have one of each. They hold up well, but then again I never really pushed them. The backbone mono tube is pretty big too. I liked how it dubbed as a snorkel on them. CanAm could make a concept similar to it I guess. Just reinforce where the peg bolts go (the quadracer frames were weak there), have better front end geometry and voila.

Yeah I always wondered if the YFZ is really 350lbs....According to the ATK website the their 450MX quad is 370lbs<---Those are basically the new Cdales right?

Aaron i thought the monotube served a second pupose, i didnt think about the intake

yes the atk is a revamped c-dale,

one of these days i'm taking my yfz to work ready to race and i'll put it on a scale, my geuss is its in the 400+ range

54warrior
05-09-2007, 12:57 PM
Thanks to all, this has been one of the better threads I've seen on here in quite awhile. Many people making many good (and true) points.

Keep it going.

54warrior
05-09-2007, 12:57 PM
^^Double Post, connection was acting weird for some reason.

Ex_Rider43
05-10-2007, 12:12 AM
BRP is a company that does a lot of R&D and they are able to build something that will spank anyother brand out there. I have no idea is the DS450 will be #1 when it comes out but they did their homework on it and it has some new things that the other 450's dont have.

c450Razy
05-10-2007, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by 54warrior
The whole weight issue always makes me laugh. People are crying about 2# here and 10# there. Alot of us, myself included, could easily lose that extra 10-15#. I am not concerned though becuase I'm 6'7" and 270+ lbs. Even if I do lose some weight, I'll always be at a weight disadvantage.

Cannondale frames are extremely strong.

Someone else was spot on when they claimed that everyone is just worried because something new is coming out that will be better than what they have.

Regardless, anything new is great for everyone. It just pushes the envelope even farther.


I hope that this quad or the KTM are 10# lighter, have more HP, are reliable, and FORCE the Big 4 to go back to the drawing board. Something that is entirely possible.


Yeah, That also means they will have to jack the price up!!

parkers30
05-10-2007, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by c450Razy
Yeah, That also means they will have to jack the price up!!

Not if everyone else keeps their prices low, that would be pricing themselves out of the market.

Look at the 250/450 dirt bikes, they have dramatic chenges every year and build far less then they do fourwheeler but they cost much less.

54warrior
05-10-2007, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by parkers30
Not if everyone else keeps their prices low, that would be pricing themselves out of the market.

Look at the 250/450 dirt bikes, they have dramatic chenges every year and build far less then they do fourwheeler but they cost much less.

Yeah, that's all thanks to us ATVers. I don't know the exact figures but I think the ratio of ATV to Off-Road Motorcycles sold is 3:1.

They use the money generated from us to support these costly changes to the bikes. It's time for that BS to stop if you ask me.

OzLinc
05-10-2007, 06:01 PM
Got a email from BRP today...has a pic of the 450......just one corner. You can clearly see it has a RH chain, big kick-up pegs, Holeshot tyres & what looks like a split twin spar alloy frame......like the Aprilia MX bike.

Linc

OzLinc
05-10-2007, 06:02 PM
Got a email from BRP today...has a pic of the 450......just one corner. You can clearly see it has a RH chain, big kick-up pegs, Holeshot tyres & what looks like a split twin spar alloy frame......like the Aprilia MX bike.

Linc

edit what's the deal with this double post crap

soonerlightning
05-11-2007, 06:49 AM
well where is the pic???

soonerlightning
05-11-2007, 06:50 AM
well where is the pic???

JMann2380
05-11-2007, 10:08 PM
Info about the frame is up: http://can-amds450.com/

Bolted together aluminum frame...

stalefish_132
05-11-2007, 10:16 PM
ok if they are usign the same technologly as what air bus uses to hold their wings on a jet then surely they should hold together on a quad. one thing...... how the hell are you suposto work on the engine/ remove it? well it'll be a rotax so i'm sure they will have it shoe-horned in there somehow.

so who else is going to buy one?:eek:

LTR450_#67
05-11-2007, 10:53 PM
Wow, that looks expensive.....to make and/or to work on......

ThePhantomRider
05-12-2007, 04:06 AM
As I have stated, Can-Am has a major can of whoop *** to open, and they just pulled it out of the cooler...more juicy stuff next week.

TPR

cdale2002
05-12-2007, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by stalefish_132
ok if they are usign the same technologly as what air bus uses to hold their wings on a jet then surely they should hold together on a quad. one thing...... how the hell are you suposto work on the engine/ remove it? well it'll be a rotax so i'm sure they will have it shoe-horned in there somehow.

so who else is going to buy one?:eek:

It looks like the two bars going across the middle of the frame where the engine is will be bolted in so you can remeve the engine

troutman561
05-12-2007, 08:02 AM
Well if this frame as all bolted together, wouldn't you just be able to unbolt some frame rails to get the engine out, this would seem to make sense to me?

ThePhantomRider
05-12-2007, 09:31 AM
You may be right on the middle rails being removable.

However, the rest of the frame is not bolted together. There are "bolts" with grooves instead of threads. The bolt is streched through the piece to be bonded and through the "nut" when the tension is released the bolt returns to it's original thickness which compresses inside the "nut" creating a massively strong mechanical connection.

This stuff doesn'tt loosen up!


TPR

LTR450_#67
05-12-2007, 09:53 AM
I know I am a skeptical SOB on this machin, but I think they have too much rake on the front end (yes you can have too much rake). Sounds like you're going to have to take it to a dealer so they can remove and reinstall them special bolts ($$$). I must say it would look sweet to have it all polished up...

hate me....

yamadjs08
05-12-2007, 06:39 PM
Fuggin awesome! :devil:

Its funny how some of you are dogging on the most innovative frame since Cannondale in 2001... :o

This thing is going to be just as sick as I had hoped it would. Looks like Can-Am did their homework, and so far it looks like it has paid off.

kbass24emtp
05-12-2007, 08:23 PM
That frame looks sweet. Looks like its going to be a killer quad.

Toadz400
05-12-2007, 08:39 PM
I'm definately looking forward to everything else on the DS450 after seeing the frame. Definately a good idea and I just hope it's easy enough to work on. As someone else stated, it'll probably be costly to have the frame bolted back together, let's just hope it never needs to come apart!

The frame looks pretty narrow too. Looks like it'll handle extremely well just based on the frame.

FUTheman
05-12-2007, 08:55 PM
Should be inexpensive to assemble compared to a Dale frame. The bolting of the frame members will be much faster and cheaper than the welding required in a Dale frame.

bradley300
05-13-2007, 07:19 AM
Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
You may be right on the middle rails being removable.

However, the rest of the frame is not bolted together. There are "bolts" with grooves instead of threads. The bolt is streched through the piece to be bonded and through the "nut" when the tension is released the bolt returns to it's original thickness which compresses inside the "nut" creating a massively strong mechanical connection.

This stuff doesn'tt loosen up!


TPR

more like a rivet then?

toady
05-13-2007, 07:58 AM
Maybe to get the engine will be really compact and can slide out through the bottom inbetween the frame rails???

swampfoxsc
05-13-2007, 08:10 AM
The DS 450 has already been seen and ridden by many in the atv media (mags and websites). Those attending had to sign a waiver that they wouldn't say anything. I'm surprised it's been this quiet so far. Usually, something slips out ahead of time.

I couldn't get squat from a friend that got to ride it. He just said it was really nice and different. Unfortunately, he doesn't ride sport quads regularly so he couldn't give me a comparison to the other 450's. He's a trail/4X4 rider.

OutlawBill
05-13-2007, 10:34 AM
after seen this frame all I can say I an very impressed hope some of this transfer to the DS650 soon. I think only Can-AM could have made this from. Look what other stuff BRP makes jet airplanes and snowmobiles. They have taken ides from other industries and work them into this quad This is going to be one very wicked quad.

quadinfamily
05-13-2007, 05:10 PM
I would like to see ds800 5 speed, light weight frame,50in wide, that under 400lb.it may happen.

Toadz400
05-13-2007, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by FUTheman
Should be inexpensive to assemble compared to a Dale frame. The bolting of the frame members will be much faster and cheaper than the welding required in a Dale frame.

When did you need to weld a Cannondale frame?

Fred55
05-13-2007, 10:58 PM
When they made it...

ThePhantomRider
05-14-2007, 12:46 AM
The good part here is that if you mess up part of the frame, you'll be able to send it to the factory, and for a fee they will remove and replace the messed up part as good as new.

That will be much less then getting a full frame replaced.

TPR

bradley300
05-14-2007, 06:32 AM
i ownder how long those connections will last. not to mention, once they do go, you better stay off. ride while the conections have any play in them and you'll waller out the holeson both parts of the frame

OutlawBill
05-14-2007, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by bradley300
i ownder how long those connections will last. not to mention, once they do go, you better stay off. ride while the conections have any play in them and you'll waller out the holeson both parts of the frame

I would say 10 to 20 years. They use the bolts to build jumbo jets. There a lot stress and vibration in jet flight. I was watching a load test on a 777 wing on tv
.http://www.videosift.com/story.php?id=20960

54warrior
05-14-2007, 08:20 AM
I would go with the 15 to 20 year prediction, considering that no other frame damage occurs over the years (bends/tweaks).

Everything as aluminum so there is no corrosion issues with the frame/locknut connection. The whole lockbolt concept seems pretty slick to me. Will be interesting to see these things when they are released.

Definitely going to be a top notch machine. Can't wait!

OutlawBill
05-14-2007, 08:37 AM
This frame may have a very big impact on racing quads. You may not see a steel frame on racing quads in 5 years.

Toadz400
05-14-2007, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by Fred55
When they made it...

I thought he was talking about if you had to take the engine out or he was implying frames breaking. I don't believe I've ever heard of a Cannondale frame breaking, and if there has been broken frames there aren't many of them.

54warrior
05-14-2007, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by Toadz400
I thought he was talking about if you had to take the engine out or he was implying frames breaking. I don't believe I've ever heard of a Cannondale frame breaking, and if there has been broken frames there aren't many of them.

I'd say he was talking about when they made the frames at the factory. They were all handmade in jigs at the factory and welded by certified welders all by hand. No computer controlled welders or anything like that.

Yes, the C'Dale frame did have a removeable lower "cradle" section that was attached via eight bolts. The engine bolted onto the cradle and the cradle bolted into the frame from the bottom. It also worked as a nice engine stand.

OutlawBill
05-16-2007, 10:35 AM
Gas tank inside frame or what?

Toadz400
05-16-2007, 11:08 AM
They didn't mention anything like that. It'd be cool to see the oil inside of the frame like the Cannondale or inside of the swingarm like some motorcycles.

parkers30
05-16-2007, 11:10 AM
One of their goals was "lowest unsprung weight" oil in the swing arm would definitely add to that weight.

In the frame would be near impossible from looking at the frame design.

ThePhantomRider
05-16-2007, 11:59 AM
Again, from looking at the shillouette I believe you can see that the location used to pickup the upper a-arms also doubles as the mount for an external oil tank. I'll have to look again. As for the fuel, since it's a EFI bike and there is a fuel pump it allows more location choices than gravity fed.

TPR

OutlawBill
05-16-2007, 02:56 PM
So is the gas tank going to fit under the top rails and between the side ones?

ThePhantomRider
05-16-2007, 03:19 PM
Honestly I have no idea. I have to look at some pictures again.


TPR

ThePhantomRider
05-16-2007, 03:39 PM
Judging from the frame/shillouette picture, the top rail is pretty much under where the top of the plastic is, therefore, the fuel tank is not mounted on top of the rails, as to if it's under the rails and between the sides or under the seat, I have no clue.


TPR

OutlawBill
05-16-2007, 03:44 PM
I would say under the top rails top move weigth lower.

OzLinc
05-16-2007, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
Judging from the frame/shillouette picture, the top rail is pretty much under where the top of the plastic is, therefore, the fuel tank is not mounted on top of the rails, as to if it's under the rails and between the sides or under the seat, I have no clue.


TPR

Especially seeing how there is a top frame plate with a big hole in it for the gas cap.......

Linc