new baldwin rebuild smoking

[rustee]

hello not sure if i am getting paranoid or not. i had mark baldwin compleately re do my head his cam, ti valves, and springs and retainers. full valve job and his 14:1 piston. i also completley rebuilt bottem end inc a new crank and also a brand new honda factory cylinder did not want to cut corners here we race tt national. mark tells me that i will get a little puff of smoke when cold becuase of the two ring piston i can live with that. but after i get it good and hot if i blip the throttel a few times in a row i get a bit more blue smoke then i like a small cloud. should i have honed the new cyl first? i am now thinking that mabee i glazed the cyl and am pushing some oil past the rings.any one have this problem? any info greatley apprreciated all this money and iknow deep down it should not be smoking this way. rustee...

[FHKracingZ]

You shouldnt have to hone a brand new cylinder. Another thing , did u check to see if the valve was resting 100% against the head. I know that mine had a little bit of metal left in there from porting and had a little gap in there because of it. im not sure if that could cause it. call baldwin...

[TMSmx47]

I have Marks full build also.. Same as you. Mine does the same as yours with a little puff. I wouldn't worry about it cuz once it heats up that puff goes away.

[speedfreaksguy]

You may not have got a good ring seal on break in. How did you break it in. Did you assemble the motor or did Mark?

[rustee]

thanks for the reply no i put the motor together not mark. he did all the machine work for me and supplyd the parts. as far as break in we started the motor and got it to normal temp then shut it down a couple of times of course we reved it up good. bike runs very good very impressed with the power.motor is a little noisyer than it used to be but marks says that is because of the shorter piston skirt. and it is a ***** to start when it gets hot as well any ifo greatley appreciated. rustee....

[the 97]

could be a small crack in a valve seat....know someone with n ltr with a yoshi motor and it did the same thing that your talking about. one of the seats had a crack in it and it was letting alittle bit of oil threw

[Rulz]

Did he/you replace the valve guide seals? Also, how was the motor assembled, meaning did you do a "dry build"?

Mark is correct, it's quite normal to see a little blue smoke at startup when cold, but after it's warmed up, that should go away. If not, possibly poor ring seal or valve guide seals. Is it using much oil?

[rustee]

mark put new guides and seals in as well as a valvei job using a serdi machine so i am pretty sure he would have notice a crack in the seat. as far as a dry build i always use a little oil on all the bearing surfaces and brush the oil on the trans gears for assambly. and i use a very thin coat of oil in the cyl and on the skirts of the piston before assembly got to have a little lubrication before start up. i am leaning more towards the rings not sealing properly. i guess am going to look down the cyl with a borescope to nite and see what it looks like in there. i might have to tear it down gain and have a lite hone done. not sure if i can use the rings over. the motor has about a 20 lap race on it. thanks for the reply

[TMSmx47]

As I stated before, mine does the same but only when cold. Very noisey when cold also.. Once it warms up it quits down and no smoke at all!! But I have to say, mine starts first kick everytime hot or cold.. Dont matter. I honestly wouldn't worry about. Its doing exactly what Mark said it would do.

[Rulz]

Originally posted by rustee
mark put new guides and seals in as well as a valvei job using a serdi machine so i am pretty sure he would have notice a crack in the seat. as far as a dry build i always use a little oil on all the bearing surfaces and brush the oil on the trans gears for assambly. and i use a very thin coat of oil in the cyl and on the skirts of the piston before assembly got to have a little lubrication before start up. i am leaning more towards the rings not sealing properly. i guess am going to look down the cyl with a borescope to nite and see what it looks like in there. i might have to tear it down gain and have a lite hone done. not sure if i can use the rings over. the motor has about a 20 lap race on it. thanks for the reply

I always dry build the top end, no oil anywhere except on the wrist pin. Ball hone the cylinder and clean with warm soapy water. Assemble dry, remove spark plug and kick the bike over 50 times, add oil, fire it up and run the piss out of it. You get your best ring seal this way.

[speedfreaksguy]

Originally posted by rustee
as far as break in we started the motor and got it to normal temp then shut it down a couple of times of course we reved it up good.

Sounds like you didn't get the rings to seal. You really need to ride it to break it in. Free reving the motor with no load on it just isn't the same. You might want to do a leak down test on it to be shure. I would re-ring it, run a brush hone through the cylinder and break it in again.

[rustee]

rulz / speedfreaksguy
thanks for the replys
i did look down the cyl last nite with a bore scope and i belive it is glazed. there was a curtan of oil running down all around the cyl with the piston all the way down. so i am pushing some oil up there to burn, bad ring seal. and now i kind of know why. when we first put this eng together we drain all of our fuel from both our bikes we also run a 250r /350r stroked bike. hence we use the same 112 octane fuel in both one with oil mix for the 250 r. well we put the wrong fuel in the 4 stroke it was mixed with 2 stroke oil and we ran it for about 30 min good and hot. well i firmly think this is when it glazed. when i relized what happend we draind and flushed every thing and thought it would be ok. i guess not so i will tear it down sat re ring it.

but both of you say you can hone this cyl? i did not think you can hone nikisl? i do have ball hones in various sizes. if this is true i will clean it up that way please verifi i can do this on a nik cyl. i cant belive i did something so stupid.

TMSmx47 also thanks for the reply if i did not put that fuel in you would be absolutlly correct. the thing runs unbelivable but smells like an oil burner cant have that on the track. sorry i am a little paranoid.

[TMSmx47]

rustee.. No problem. I understand completely. It suckss you gotta pull it all apart! As for honing nikasil, you can but be very very light on it. Just a light scuff with a ball hone but do not be to abrasive with it. Just a quick run through to scuff the glaze. Ring it and run it, but apply the rings and the piston dry.. Fire it up and chug it, dont rip it. Let it cool down after 10mins.. Next day if you can wait that long, start it like you would at the track and hual asss! ;)

[rustee]

TMSmx47

couldent wait tore it down last nite yes the cyl is glazed. but the main problem is that the new exhust guides/valves /seals both are leaking bad, oil running down the roof of the cyl head. emailed mark baldwin the pics to day he called me up and wants that head back he says he never seen anything like that before. oil on the roof of the cyl not on the bottem of the ports as one would think. i did not have an oil issue before i had the head fully modded. hope nothing serious. but since i have your attention i have a question on the crank shaft. i noticed i can move the crank side to side in the cases about 10-12 thousands and i noticed that he left crank bearing is moving in and out when i move the crank back and forth. so i tore the cases apart also while the head is out i might as well address this. these were new bearings and a new hot rods crank as well i know this is not normal and will find a way to snug it up but if somebody has come across this i would like to here your fix?? man i dont get normal problems as others i always get the oddest @$#%!. well we really are hard on it at the trac so that is expected and any info as usaual greatly appreciated rustee.

pics of the head are here
[http://i6.tinypic.com/63bs9w0.jpg also http://i1.tinypic.com/4voy1r5.jpg

[TMSmx47]

WOW!! That is weird!! Never seen that either! Im sure Mark will hook you up! Let us know the outcome of all that! As for the crank, I did the HOTRODS stuff also.. I would just do bearings if you wanna snug all that play up to make yourself feel better.. lol!!