Engine Performance Questions..Chad?

[leadfoot_52]

Have an 06 450r with A 14:1 piston, HRC Cam, HRC Header, Yosh RS7 slip on, Cleaned up ports(not over ported) and a 172 Main jet and the A/F Ratio is near perfect on our dyno. My Buddy's 05 450r with no porting, 14:1, Baldwin Cam and exhaust is beating me in a drag- Is there a better drop-in cam for the 06 than the HRC Cam?Im gonna put in a CRF head gasket To Raise the compression a little more-but i need a little more snot out of it. Any suggestions?

[ratso]

Baldwin cams are pretty tough to beat. I would try a rossier 943 cam,hot cam 2. You could use a Baldwin. Who did your porting?

[400exrider707]

Well since you have nearly the same mods, I would be looking elsewhere than more mods. Suspension setup and rider abilities play a large role in this outcome. Did you guys switch machines and try again? same results? Traction is also another major issue here.

[czrider263]

I ran the 943 and like it but the 493 is a BEAST.

[MAD450r]

Anyway you look at the 04-05 models were faster in my book. Not just cause I ahve one. I have raced many 06-07 and I beat them all in drag races. You ask why, in my opinion the longer stroke the 04-05 model has makes them faster, but also makes them a bit harder to ride in the trails if your not a very good rider.

You want catch or beat the 04-05 have your's stroked, it'll be over 450 cc then but will have more torque to keep up with the older model.

[lumi]

hotcams 2 is pretty darn good

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by lumi
hotcams 2 is pretty darn good

He already has an HRC, how will that help?

[d3ktrix]

You said your head is just cleaned up, not over ported.
Does that mean you only had it polished? No actual port work done?

[leadfoot_52]

Well I did the porting myself as I work at a machine shop- and I just cleaned up all the casting flaws. The quads are the same with either rider, his just slowly pulling away. Does anyone know who makes the Baldwin Cams? I know The web 943 is probably a good cam, but I dont think it is a "drop in" cam.I was thinking of switching cams Because i think there is a better one out there than the HRC Cam. Does anyone recommend boring the carb-or doesnt it make much of a difference? I know that can mess with the a/f ratio a little. We are doing 300' grass drags with these machines in a few weeks-so suspension is outruled.

[d3ktrix]

Some actual head porting should make a HUGE difference. I've never herd of polishing doing much.

Both quads using the same size tires?
Your 06 still have the stock gearing?
Gearing the 06 a little taller then stock might give u an advantage in the long drags.

And the 06 HRC cam is mostly a bottom/mid range cam, something with more top end will help in the drags so you can stay on the gas longer through each gear.

Doing this type of stuff might hurt your normal riding though if ride MX or tight trails and depend on low end pep.

[mrnate400ex]

I am using the 943/921 web cam right now. it is a drop in cam. however, it is definitly not a drag racing cam. it is a low to mid cam. it pulls real hard all the way to the top, but you gain the most power right in the middle. so unless you like to short shift it while dragging you aren't going to be happy with that cam.

[chad502ex]

the 06/07 port cross-sectional and port volume are a lot smaller than the first gen 04/05 heads. Larger lift cams are better suited for the first gen, assuming port velocity remains high enough for the larger lifts. The new heads are all about velocity being smaller. No sense in having a bigger lift cam in the 06/07 if you can't get the cross-sectional big enough for the higher rpms.

MAD450r is on to it,... an engine with more leveraging torque will get an equally weighed machine up to speed faster than an engine with same displacement under smaller stroke. When the tq from the stroker of the first generation engines get the machine up to speed, the cross sectional of the port, being larger than the 06/07 ports, takes over for top end.

Factory gearing will also play a part with the outcome of the race.. In this case, who's got what?

I think you should get a port job matched to the camshaft you select.

Also, since you already have an FCR, it would be an 'easy 43mm DRG taper bore'
:macho

[Rulz]

Drop in the HCIII, much better top end performance than the stage II. I recently switched from II to III and love it!!

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by Rulz
Drop in the HCIII, much better top end performance than the stage II. I recently switched from II to III and love it!!

Please read chads post;)

[czrider263]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
Please read chads post;)

True DAT!

[sandmanblue]

Why has nobody asked when his friends quad pulls away? Or a whole slew of other factors?

BTW - if these motors are equally modded and tuned properly, then by virtue of the longer stroke, the earlier motor will have a peak torque advantage, but as we have seen on countless dyno runs, the 06/07 motors in a non-ported comparison, make more hp.

If I'm not mistaken, I've read our friend Dan Lamey (DASA) tell us that if torque won drag races, we'd be racing diesels. So, since hp seems to be what the vast majority of the ppl on this site see as the king of drag racing, then all this talk is in the opposite direction and baffling to say the least.

Just pointing out that as with every drag race scenario, there are many factors that seem to be overlooked. There's no info here on tire type and size, gearing, tire pressures, type of ground this was done on, rider weight, etc.....

And to further how bad the results can be skewed, my last 477 build would lose to my friends mild modded yfz with stock tires on flat sand drags, but I roasted him once paddles and a hill were thrown in......

Bottom line -
If it ain't fast enough - build it bigger and badder.

[leadfoot_52]

Ok My 06 has 14/36 gearing and his 05 has 14/33 gearing. the transmission gear ratios are different from 05 to 06. be both have 18'' tires, and we both weigh 165 lbs- this race was on pavement. i just thought the 06 would be a little stronger than the 05 engine. the 05 slowly and i mean slowly pulls away through each gear.

[MAD450r]

As for horsepower winning drag races, that helps when you have a topend cam and the gearing for top speed. I run stock gearing on my 04 with 20 inch rears hrc cam strait up, I am finally going to try going to 36 maybe in the rear with 18's.

Now with that said adding torgue will get you out the whole faster, or allow for second or even third gear starts. Once you learn that and can launch your quad right you can build for more horsepower to pull 5th gear to the limiter.

[chad502ex]

sandmanblue, your posting seems like all your intent is to harass DASA and others just by saying that and being in this thread....

TQ is what wins races.....

sure, now you admit that your last 477 was below average build for 480 and it would lose even to a stock build,... after all that grief you gave that it wasn't below average big bore build when you now finally have admitted it..... tis.


and before you make another ignorant remark implying the diesels cant win,... do some research on Banks Sidewinder Diesel Truck smashing the world 159.647-mph record with an average speed of 217.314 mph, making Sidewinder the World's Fastest Diesel Pickup Truck under tow in the Sand Flats...... 12.16 seconds in 1/4mi. at 115 mph too...

you'd be a lot better to all of us when you provide informative postings that don't beat down others like DASA or suggest that you can do more by building it bigger and badder... your already one down in that department....

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by sandmanblue
Why has nobody asked when his friends quad pulls away? Or a whole slew of other factors?



Just pointing out that as with every drag race scenario, there are many factors that seem to be overlooked. There's no info here on tire type and size, gearing, tire pressures, type of ground this was done on, rider weight, etc.....


I asked these questions in my very first post....:rolleyes:

[sandmanblue]

Originally posted by chad502ex
sandmanblue, your posting seems like all your intent is to harass DASA and others just by saying that and being in this thread....

TQ is what wins races.....

sure, now you admit that your last 477 was below average build for 480 and it would lose even to a stock build,... after all that grief you gave that it wasn't below average big bore build when you now finally have admitted it..... tis.


and before you make another ignorant remark implying the diesels cant win,... do some research on Banks Sidewinder Diesel Truck smashing the world 159.647-mph record with an average speed of 217.314 mph, making Sidewinder the World's Fastest Diesel Pickup Truck under tow in the Sand Flats...... 12.16 seconds in 1/4mi. at 115 mph too...

you'd be a lot better to all of us when you provide informative postings that don't beat down others like DASA or suggest that you can do more by building it bigger and badder... your already one down in that department....

Chad - you're an idiot. I really don't give a rats arse what you have to say. This has nothing to do with beating DASA down. Just quoting him since many ppl believe he is an authority (unlike you - a self proclaimed authority). Now, you post about torque winning races, which conflicts the info from a well respected engine builder and for whatever reason you infer that I was attacking Dan. Actually - it's just the opposite.

Fact is - with the gearing advantage this guy has on his friend (since engine torque means NOTHING and rear wheel torque is what needs to be compared - the 06 in this example would have an acceleration advantage - but YOU should have known that if you were as smart as you pretend to be..... But maybe you're not...

You've been kicked off two boards now (that I know of). It is because of your egotistical, self glorifying attitude and lack of common decency. I had nothing to say about you. Don't really care. Is it because I threaten to expose you for the fraud you are? I think so.

Save your energy for something useful - like keeping your mouth shut and your ears open for once.

Oh, and good job ruining another thread. I will be reporting every thread where YOU start and argument - like this one - so watch your replies. This might be the next site that bans you - hopefully.

Oh, and nice example of a completely unrealistic diesel. Gee, I wonder why a bag, heavy, diesel isn't practical in a quad. Maybe it doesn't make enough torque for the weight it carries... :rolleyes:

So keep typing... The more you type, the more that ppl will see what kind of person you really are..... :macho

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by sandmanblue
Chad - you're an idiot. I really don't give a rats arse what you have to say. This has nothing to do with beating DASA down. Just quoting him since many ppl believe he is an authority (unlike you - a self proclaimed authority). Now, you post about torque winning races, which conflicts the info from a well respected engine builder and for whatever reason you infer that I was attacking Dan. Actually - it's just the opposite.

Fact is - with the gearing advantage this guy has on his friend (since engine torque means NOTHING and rear wheel torque is what needs to be compared - the 06 in this example would have an acceleration advantage - but YOU should have known that if you were as smart as you pretend to be..... But maybe you're not...

You've been kicked off two boards now (that I know of). It is because of your egotistical, self glorifying attitude and lack of common decency. I had nothing to say about you. Don't really care. Is it because I threaten to expose you for the fraud you are? I think so.

Save your energy for something useful - like keeping your mouth shut and your ears open for once.

Oh, and good job ruining another thread. I will be reporting every thread where YOU start and argument - like this one - so watch your replies. This might be the next site that bans you - hopefully.

Oh, and nice example of a completely unrealistic diesel. Gee, I wonder why a bag, heavy, diesel isn't practical in a quad. Maybe it doesn't make enough torque for the weight it carries... :rolleyes:

So keep typing... The more you type, the more that ppl will see what kind of person you really are..... :macho

Chucky-Cheese boy,... go back to your fairy land again where your blabbering is welcomed.

There is only one site I'm banned from, the one you participate in mixxer smoke and mirror land. That is because I disagree with some of the snow-blinding that their main site tech builder so -called facts that he presents. You, being the fellow that believes in his smoke-and-mirrors pay for his engines that blow up on you... better luck on your next granade. The other site I don't participate, the same as you, was by my choice leaving- not them banning...

[400exrider707]

How about the two of you never reply to each other ever again? This is ridiculous. :rolleyes:

Maybe we can focus on the questions asked.

I enjoy reading points of views and technical information from both of you, however this nonsense is getting out of hand, and it makes what could have been an informational thread, well, useless. No one wants to read this bickering, anyone who has been on here longer than a week can see you two dont get a long, there is no point in beating a dead horse, just stop responding to each other. Thanks.:cool:



leadfoot - What are the two machines running for tires/wheels and what are suspension setups on both machines?

[sandmanblue]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
How about the two of you never reply to each other ever again? This is ridiculous. :rolleyes:

Maybe we can focus on the questions asked.

I enjoy reading points of views and technical information from both of you, however this nonsense is getting out of hand, and it makes what could have been an informational thread, well, useless. No one wants to read this bickering, anyone who has been on here longer than a week can see you two dont get a long, there is no point in beating a dead horse, just stop responding to each other. Thanks.:cool:



leadfoot - What are the two machines running for tires/wheels and what are suspension setups on both machines?

That's why I didn't mention him in the first place.... :rolleyes:

Back to the topic (ignoring the babble from now on)....

[pro-rider46]

CHAD- 1
SANDMANBLUE-0

[czrider263]

I really hate it when people TRY to bash chad cuz your wrong! He knows his stuff and unlike mixxer his builds make HP. And hes a super nice guy. So you should shut your mouth.

CHAD- 2
SANDMANBLUE-0

[d3ktrix]

Originally posted by pro-rider46
CHAD- 1
SANDMANBLUE-0


lol don't go jump starting anything again.

[chad502ex]

LOL. its kewl! Thanks for your support. I really do not want to make it a bigger deal though. I welcome even his postings if they are presented fair unbiased and technical based- who wouldn't?

Because the thread title contained my name and asked for me to respond, I believe I was the one being asked, I tried, as in every post I make to present a technical based response.

It's not until someone is attached with hidden induendos and bashed for no apparent reason, or has been posting a pattern of aggravation, that I react the way I do to that person....

I just hope the thread question was answered....

[dober250R]

Chad gets a negative 1 from me. So the score is even

Sandmanblue-1
Chad-1

[400exrider707]

I would like to take the time to apologize to leadfoot on behalf of everyone for ruining his thread.

Big thanks guys. Way to keep it on track:mad: I blame this on ANY and ALL persons who didn't reply with a response to leadfoots problems.

[dober250R]

how about it's not the motor, it's the rider.........:chinese: