Credit is Due

[KingpinsEx]

I was just curious if anyone else is sick of other compaines (Suzuki/Kawi) getting praised for being revolutionary in their atv designs? First with the LTR everyone just raved about the FI as if it had never been done before and then how they "changed" the sport with the FIRST race ready quad off the showroom floor?? We all know this to be false and when you get down to it, the moto was WAY more race ready than the LTR. Sure it's close but you cannot truely go out and race and LTR off the showroom floor, like you could the cannondale. Number plates, killswitches, beadlocks, race pipe, handlebars, different map, and better shocks are all things you still need to add on that the c-dale had.

This bothered me and then the Kawi comes out now and they just rave about the aluminum frame and FI like they changed the entire sport. And all of a sudden aluminum frames are just AMAZING, but i did not hear nearly as much apprasial for cannondales. Sure they went bankrupt but they truely paved the way and just because they no longer make atvs directly everyone (mainly mags.) acts as though they no longer exist or ever did in the first place. I guess they were just ahead of their time, but someone had to do it and they should at least get reconized for it

[bradley300]

i completly agree! but the mags dont care about credit! they are going to say whatever it takes to hype up who ever's quad they are currently being paid to hype up.

i also agree that the ltr is not near as nice as a moto, nor is a kfx near as nice as a blaze

[Baracudaaa]

Maybe you shouldn’t put so much credence into magazine articles. They just invented this thing called 'Marketing', sometimes the truths get stretched, and certain liberties are taken.
Have some warm milk and go back to bed.

[honda250xrider]

will say one thing that the ltr450 suspension is good from the factory and for most they do not need to change to still be competitive is wide feels light and is quick, slap some nerfs number plates and kill switch and you will be very competitive. Now if you can't ride then all the aftermarket stuff in the world isn't going to be helping you any, I will say though out of the box the ltr is by far superior to any quad out there right now. to me efi is a big step taken into the sport and i beleive we will see a following here shortly with others. Your always going to here big hype from the magazines but i wouldnt just put the atv's down they are doing a great thing for our sport and are progessing into making race ready quads right out of the box. To me spending a couple hundred on tether, nerfs, plates is far better than spending a couple thousand in making other's as competitive and be race ready. I think why cannondale didn't get as much praise is because they were more money than most and maybe to ahead of its time. I know the moto was at retail when i looked several years ago 11grand. i could be off but i think this is the price when it first came out. Yes they are great quads but with the kind of money you bought it for and ended up having many problems with there motors was a big issue for them and they didn't get the kind of attention they needed.

[MOTORIDER68]

Cannondale was ahead of there time and I really believe with a few more years they could have had a very reliable motor. I know some people have never had a problem with there motors. I was fortunate it make it a little over 2 years without a problem with my moto, but some of my friends weren't so lucky. Cannondale made a motor from scratch in a year or two, where as other companys spend many years developing there motors. The rest of the moto was unbelievable. As wierd as this sounds most people could hop on a moto and be fast. Just the stock power and the more forgiving shocks were enough to take an average rider and make them fast. I couldn't believe the effect on the local level. I remember pulling to the line at a local race or a Fair race and 8 out of 12 quads being c-dales, with a $500 purse. I do think the mag's had a part in not helping the c-dales. I still look a the atv sport where they interview jim naccaroto and they are raving the c-dale with Ben Jackson but if you pick up an issue today they dont even mention the bike when they are talking about the new ones and how they are the first race ready bikes. I say thanks c-dale for if nothing else giving me an awesome bike for the four years I rode it and for paving the way for the suzuki today (which I hope to buy real soon).

[KingpinsEx]

Originally posted by honda250xrider
Your always going to here big hype from the magazines but i wouldnt just put the atv's down they are doing a great thing for our sport and are progessing into making race ready quads right out of the box. To me spending a couple hundred on tether, nerfs, plates is far better than spending a couple thousand in making other's as competitive and be race ready.

Let's get one thing straight, I am by no mean's putting down any atv's here. All of them out right now in the 450 market are very impressive machines. But my point was, they are doing great thing's for the sport but they act like they reinvented the wheel when the just popularized cannondales basic ideas. They aren't progressing the sport, it has already been done...they are just slowly making their way back to where cannondale left off. As for the LTR to get it as competitive as the moto was im sure you will be sinking around 11gs total into that machine, how many stock have you actually seen racing mx? The moto was an A-Class bike straight off the showroom floor even down to the tires...and thats where the industry needs to be going.

And moto I agree completely, seeing as how ATK still produces the quads why not throw them into an atv shootout, now that would be interesting! But for some reason it doesn't happen...

[coryatver]

The new quads might not be the first to have the features but they are the first to make it affordable. They are in the 7,000 range not the 12,000 for the moto!

[MOTORIDER68]

thats right coryatver they have made it affordable but for 12,000, you got a scotts steering dampner, nerfs, full FMF titanium pipe, tether, tag handlbars, handlebar guards, beadlocks, holeshots all the way around, ohlins (which the suzuki does have good shocks but they arent quite as good as the ohlins) steel braided brake lines, wave rotors, and even # plates. And keep this in mind when they were produced the only thing available was the 400ex and a raptor oh and a bombarier. My point is you got everything you needed to go race, whereas the suzuki is kinda race ready but not nearly like the moto. I am happy were things are at in the racing world but the real heros are c-dale. and keep in mind my i hope to have suzuki real soon, but we have to give credit where credit is due...i wish the mags and other companies would do that.

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by MOTORIDER68
thats right coryatver they have made it affordable but for 12,000, you got a scotts steering dampner, nerfs, full FMF titanium pipe, tether, tag handlbars, handlebar guards, beadlocks, holeshots all the way around, ohlins (which the suzuki does have good shocks but they arent quite as good as the ohlins) steel braided brake lines, wave rotors, and even # plates. And keep this in mind when they were produced the only thing available was the 400ex and a raptor oh and a bombarier. My point is you got everything you needed to go race, whereas the suzuki is kinda race ready but not nearly like the moto. I am happy were things are at in the racing world but the real heros are c-dale. and keep in mind my i hope to have suzuki real soon, but we have to give credit where credit is due...i wish the mags and other companies would do that. and for 8,000 I could buy a full blown race ready YFZ, LT-R, or 450r that will blow the doors off that moto.

[Delaware152]

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
and for 8,000 I could buy a full blown race ready YFZ, LT-R, or 450r that will blow the doors off that moto.

I think it would take a little more of a budget than that unless your buying used. If that's the case you can buy two C-Dales with more mods for the price of one Jap quad.

[honda250xrider]

and you know why you can buy 2 cannondales for the price of 1 full blown 450r or yfz? quality issues... they never worked out all the bugs and many have problems, if they would of worked some of them out maybe they would of had a chance. but if your looking for a reliable quad cannondale is not by any means my first choice.

what i beleive is that they were setup almost to race ready at least the moto's and only supplied a limited sales. These were intended for serious racers, most do not need addential braking such as wave rotors and steel braided. the brakes on these new quads are pretty remarkable already. They took away from the customer wanting to upgrade themselves with their own full blown suspension upgrades, why would i want to buy a 11000 dollar quad and put all new suspension on that i would like better. It was simply just to race ready out of the box for the time. even today im not sure if a complete race ready quad would make the market very well. I will give tons of credit to cannondales but i dont see them taking all the credit, the new companies were the first to make it reliable, afforable they have a completely different design then the cannondales dont think they didnt have to have a world of design work that went into these quads and just took it from the c-dale. But the intended reason why the thread was created was to show that the c-dale was the first but it will not be the last and will never be the best simply put.

Could i say it like this suzuki is the first to come out with a better, reliable efi quad since the c-dale's first came out?

[KingpinsEx]

Yes you could and im not here advocating that cannondales are the best machines ever made or anything like that. It's just that they were the first and had the balls to do it. It is tough to say if Zuki or Kawi would be doing what they are now w/o cannondales efforts. It's risky being the first and it showed....

But the real thing in buying a race ready quad such as the moto is the $$ savings. Seriously, you don't think you will end up spending at least that much on an LTR? You def. would on a KFX. Look at it this way, sure you lose your choice of products on a race quad out of the box, but who want's to pay double for alot of parts? Tires, rims, exhaust, handlebars, shocks, all things that most racers are going to replace and still pay for the stock parts. Espically the shocks, those aren't cheap shocks on the LTR yet the majority of people are going to replace them for serious racing. So why pay so much for something you aren't even going to use? Plus on a mass produced machine they are getting a deal im sure from the aftermarket and pass that saving on to you.

I have a feeling we will see another truely race ready quad when the KTM 450 quad comes out, but it will certainly not be the first...

[Baracudaaa]

I didnt hear any credit to the GasGas Wild 450 or the 300.

[honda250xrider]

i guess my point is the fact that a serious racer imo will still change the moto around for what he likes, you are in reality not saving much imo from buying a moto to buying a ltr450 and modifying it to the way you want. Race ready quads out of the box is a good thought but i doupt it will happen anytime soon. There is only a limited amount of people that will buy them. only thing i could see companies doing and what i think they should do is sell pretty much the engine frame swingarm and the nessecary stuff for racers so that they can change and modify to what they what, that in a sense is what you are saying. racers change all the parts so why not just sell the bare essentials.

[jeremy_283]

it gets you the "most bang for the buck" ...... you dont need a pipe either...... with the spark arrestor removed it looks identical to my ti-yoshi pipe......... the suspension is great too...... you dont have to have beadlocks to race either

[MOTORIDER68]

I agree with almost everyone in this discussion but we could talk about it for hours and trust me, my friends and I do. I just say thanks to c-dale, gas-gas, suzuki and kawi, not to mention the other 450's because we can go out and buy any of these quads and maybe not compete on the national level in stock form but go out and have fun. I went from to my moto to a 400ex, talk about a reality check, but you know what I have just as much fun trail riding with it, and soon the zuke, will be in my garage and start mxing again. I just love to ride and I just think its awesome we have so many good quads to choose from!

on another note I am the guy who raced 2 years on a moto and then went and bought a long travel and new shocks, stupidest money I have ever spent. I never won anymore races then I did with the stock stuff. Young and Dumb what can I say. :D

Lets all just go ride!!!!
wait a minute I blew the EX up, everyone but me go ride :blah:

[KingpinsEx]

I like the attitude moto. It's all about what you do, for some the ole 400ex is fine for other's the LTR450r is not enough. Either way it's all about everyone enjoying the sport and getting what they want out of it. What i see is Trx250r, 400ex, Cannondale's, LTR, ??? I can't wait to see where we go next!

We have more and better choices than we ever have when it come's to what to ride, let's just not forget who got us there...