Valve Guides

[smithn1683]

I have an 86 LT230s and I need to install new valve guides, How is this done? The book says bring it to the dealer. Do they need to be pressed in?

[440exnacsracer]

i would take it to an experienced dealer. they are pressed in, but they can be difficult. if you have a press and you want to do it yourself, put the head in a freezer prior to both pressing out the old guides and again prior to pressing in the new guides. they will likely need reaming, and then youll need a valve job. if you dont have the reaming or cutting tools, id just take it to someone. good luck either way

[440exnacsracer]

actually, come to think of it, i have a head off an 86 230. ill check the guides, but i think its still good if your interested

[2muchquad]

Im pretty sure that IF you can press the old valve guides out the new ones are gonna be slightly oversized.I was gonna try this one day(still might) but some things i leave to the pros:D

[03pissedoff426]

actually i have done this by myself on my 400ex head. you have to get the head pretty warm. they suggest putting it in the oven and warming it to like 300 or so. and freezing the valve guides. they said use dried ice. the heat will expand the head and cold will shrink the valve guides. you can just press out the old ones. i suggest cleaning the head up where the valves guides go. alittle 1000 grit sand paper will do this fine. hope that helps

[smithn1683]

yeah maybe ill give it a try, but how do you get the old ones out?

[440exnacsracer]

the aluminum contracts more that the guides compound, so they will press out without heating the head. and yes, new valve guides will typically come about 1/1000th larger to make up for any wear

[JasonP]

Most of this stuff is interferance fit... you know what that means. Really really fing tight.
This is a job for a machine shop not a dealer. Usally the stock guides require reaming as well to achive the proper valve stem to guide o.d. clearance. Also your going to want to have the valves lapped and maybe have to have them re grind the seats because the new guides.
I can't even begin to tell you how important this stuff to have it done right.

[2muchquad]

I can't even begin to tell you how important this stuff to have it done right

I was gonna try this one day(still might) but some things i leave to the pros


exactly;)

[smithn1683]

well I have a whole machinist shop at my disposal I just need some instruction on what should be done and how to do it. I like to try things out myself if I ruin the head I can get a new one for cheap no big deal.

[smithn1683]

how do the valve seals go on?

[JasonP]

The valve seals push on to the the guide.
To get the guides out you have to heat the head... then dry ice the guides and push them out.

[smithn1683]

how much effort is required to push them on? Last time I did it I just slid them on with very little effort is there any thing you need to do with the spring that wraps around the valve seal?

[dork]

replacing the guides is easy. just heat up the head to about 300 and drive them out with a hammer and remover. you should buy a guide installer that fits the i.d. of the guide so you don't damage the top of the guide. then you have to ream them with the proper size reamer. find out your diameters and you can get the installer and reamer from suzuki or goodsons. the hardest part is cutting the seat to make it concentric to the new guide, because they're usually off a bit. cutting the seats is best left to the a professional shop because the tools to do it get expensive fast.

[smithn1683]

im thinking I may just not have the seals in right I know the valves are bruned up real bad. I replaced the seals once and did mess with the valves. If smokes really really bad. Ill take pics when I take it apart in the next few days.

[JasonP]

Originally posted by smithn1683
how much effort is required to push them on? Last time I did it I just slid them on with very little effort is there any thing you need to do with the spring that wraps around the valve seal?

Ah I see what's going on here. You want to replace the guides because your seals are wearing out and causing your engine to smoke.
Yeah that spring goes around the seal and places some tension on the valve stem or guide to help seal out oil. Really you can take the valve and remove the spring and it should not move around inside the guide... there is a spec for this in the tech manual. They will also measure valve stem to guide and give you a spec. There should be some resistance putting the seal onto the guide. You may have the wrong seal.

[smithn1683]

Thats what I am figuring, I bought a clymer book on it and I goto the section for valves and it says take it to a dealer. I was soo f'n pissed I whipped the book across the room and haven't opened it since. This is what I get for trying to read:mad: I was just looking for information on how to know when things are worn out, taking the springs off and on is pretty simple with the right valve compression tool, not hard work at all.

I purchased the zuk valve seals and installed them, however I dont think they are on right, I know 230's smoke but this one burns about a quart an hour, I think that is a little much. I think I may not have pushed them on hard enough or the spring was not on the right part of the seal? Like I said the book is no help. I will take it apart this tomarrow some time, see if I can wiggle the valves, install new valves, install new seals and see how that works.

I have herd a few people mention a paste you can put on the valves that you then spin them and this helps seat them? I am not going to bother getting it machined, I might hit it with a dremel quick to knock down the sharp edges on the head not the best idea but better then nothing.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by smithn1683
Thats what I am figuring, I bought a clymer book on it and I goto the section for valves and it says take it to a dealer. I was soo f'n pissed I whipped the book across the room and haven't opened it since. This is what I get for trying to read:mad: I was just looking for information on how to know when things are worn out, taking the springs off and on is pretty simple with the right valve compression tool, not hard work at all.

I purchased the zuk valve seals and installed them, however I dont think they are on right, I know 230's smoke but this one burns about a quart an hour, I think that is a little much. I think I may not have pushed them on hard enough or the spring was not on the right part of the seal? Like I said the book is no help. I will take it apart this tomarrow some time, see if I can wiggle the valves, install new valves, install new seals and see how that works.

I have herd a few people mention a paste you can put on the valves that you then spin them and this helps seat them? I am not going to bother getting it machined, I might hit it with a dremel quick to knock down the sharp edges on the head not the best idea but better then nothing.

Why do you keep putting money into this? Go get the KFX450R already... anyways seriously I dont think that paste is going to be a good idea, and the dremel is a worse idea... there is no way in heck you are going to get those edges correct and you are going to have leaking, and lose compression. Machine shops do a three angle valve job, which is basically running tooling over all of the valve seats at three completely different angles to get it correct. How are you going to do that right with a dremel? Fix the oil burning problem but dont bother putting in new valves! Just run the stupid thing til it blows up and get the 450 you know you want anyways:devil: You knew this before you bought it that it would burn oil... it is after all a zuk!

[2muchquad]

I have herd a few people mention a paste you can put on the valves that you then spin them and this helps seat them


This "paste" is called valve grinding compound.You can get it at autozone or any auto parts store.;) Yes it will help with a better seal with the valve/sesat if used properly.;)

[smithn1683]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
Why do you keep putting money into this? Go get the KFX450R already... anyways seriously I dont think that paste is going to be a good idea, and the dremel is a worse idea... there is no way in heck you are going to get those edges correct and you are going to have leaking, and lose compression. Machine shops do a three angle valve job, which is basically running tooling over all of the valve seats at three completely different angles to get it correct. How are you going to do that right with a dremel? Fix the oil burning problem but dont bother putting in new valves! Just run the stupid thing til it blows up and get the 450 you know you want anyways:devil: You knew this before you bought it that it would burn oil... it is after all a zuk!


pfff what ever you are just skurred of the 230, wait till you see me in the pits this weekend ripping wheelies.:devil:

I just want to knock down the burs on the valve seats, Im really not too worried about it the valves are already burnt to **** it cant get any worse. I'll show you them this weekend. Went to DDS motorsports on 5A to check out the 450's pretty sweet looking they are kind of weird to sit on the foot pegs are far back and the front end is really short. The stock muffler is huge too it looks like it came of my 87 k car.:rolleyes: Call me thursday and we will go down and check them out after class.

2muchquad how do you "use" it properly


oh and do you want to barrow the spring compression tool? I am gonna grab it form my neighbor tonight.

[440exnacsracer]

i advise not putting in new valves if your not going to do a valve job. there is little chance that they will seat correctly, then you will have very difficult starting, if it even starts at all. performance will also be drastically reduced if they are not seated properly. i say run the same valves, or if you need new valves get a valve job done

[2muchquad]

Put some valve grinding compound on the valve and seats.Try and rotate the valve back and forth with your hand.Use a piece of rubber hose to help you get a grip on it while rotating it.I wouldnt do it more than 10 or 15 times because it cuts pretty fast.Now you'll have a good seal between the valve and seat providing nothing is bent or chipped up;) Dont be tempted to use a drill or other power tool to lapp the valves,you'll ruin them;)

[smithn1683]

Im not gonna lie, I am very tempted to attach the valve stem to my drill

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by smithn1683
Im not gonna lie, I am very tempted to attach the valve stem to my drill

He just said dont do that....:rolleyes:

Dont touch the stupid thing... let it eat the oil it wants and run it. It still goes pretty good for being like 25 years old and eating a quart of oil faster than a 2-smoke. Just run some better smelling oil and you dont have to worry about it.

[smithn1683]

the valve is toast so it needs to be replaced no matter what. I think the last person who did the valve fudged it up the seat is really wide on it and the valve def does not sit right. so im not sure is can even be machined to sit corectly. Ill take pics so you can see. I dont want to have to clean it out every 5 hours of use either or replace the plug every 5 hours. Lets goto the pits saturday the weather should be a little better then fridays, grabicky will be up too. I dont know if the kid has ever ridden so it should be pretty funny. Tell cookiepuss to come out too, I already told GT and now he is thinking of getting 4wheeler agian.:rolleyes:

I will prob end up buying a new head for 10 bucks from a part out or stealing one from brad anyway so I dont care what happens to this one. doesnt hurt to fudge around with it.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by smithn1683
the valve is toast so it needs to be replaced no matter what. I think the last person who did the valve fudged it up the seat is really wide on it and the valve def does not sit right. so im not sure is can even be machined to sit corectly. Ill take pics so you can see. I dont want to have to clean it out every 5 hours of use either or replace the plug every 5 hours. Lets goto the pits saturday the weather should be a little better then fridays, grabicky will be up too. I dont know if the kid has ever ridden so it should be pretty funny. Tell cookiepuss to come out too, I already told GT and now he is thinking of getting 4wheeler agian.:rolleyes:

I will prob end up buying a new head for 10 bucks from a part out or stealing one from brad anyway so I dont care what happens to this one. doesnt hurt to fudge around with it.

get the extra heads first!

[smithn1683]

Ill call brad sometime, see if he ever came up with the hood, extra botom ends, and the BOS. Maybe he will give me that turbo too:rolleyes: