wheel spacers?

[madeincanada123]

Do these widen out the front and the rear? Are the hard to install? I dont want to spend a lot to widen out my atv. Do these last a long time? Would 5 inch spacers be plenty (2.5 inches on each side)? It beats buying new a arms and a new axle and stuff right? Sorry for the stupid questions, I just got a 400ex on a trade and Ive never seen these before.

[Barrymaxx]

I dont like them. First, they look stupid. Second, they can and have broken. And third, when using them up front, they cause alot of bumpsteer.

They work for some people, and maybe you. But not for me. Your better off flipping your front rims, and buying a cheap aftermarket axle

[asa400ex]

They are only good if you are just trail riding. And I mean slow train riding. In fast technical riding you will get bumpsteer. If you are trying to avoid bumpsteer dont flip your rims either.

If you a slow just out to have fun rider they might do you well.


P.S. - I have a set for the front for sale if interested. PM me.

[madeincanada123]

so then why do a lot of racers have them? Wouldnt it make it better and what is bumpsteer? Sorry Im kinda new to quads

[madeincanada123]

anyone?

[asa400ex]

Originally posted by madeincanada123
so then why do a lot of racers have them? Wouldnt it make it better and what is bumpsteer? Sorry Im kinda new to quads

I am not aware of a lot of racers having wheel spaces. If this is true then it must be a cheap way to get wider.

Bumpsteer is basically what it says. When you hit a bump or a hole the sterring wants to rip out of your hands.

To avoid bumpsteer you want to have you kingpin inclination correct. To measure this draw a line between the upper and lower ball joints. That line should be in the center of your tire when it hits the ground.

If you use wheel spacers or offset rims, you will change your kingpin inclination, thus cause bumpsteer.

[KingpinsEx]

Cheapest way to get wide = Flip front rims and add spacers to the rear. I used to use that setup for mx but since i have went back to trail riding i took them off. Sure there is greater bump steer but it's not that bad...it will still handle fine in my opinion. One suggestion is to take out your rear hub spindles and replace them with a high grade hardened bolt for added strength. And you don't want your rear wider than your front so mod that first or not at all...

I had 2.5inch on each in the rear and with the flipped fronts the handling improvement was very nice and i don't ride easy by any means. Sure im not hitting triples but they held up fine for a full season on mx on mine so for trails they should definetly be fine.

It's not the best option but its better than stock!

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by asa400ex
I am not aware of a lot of racers having wheel spaces. If this is true then it must be a cheap way to get wider.

Bumpsteer is basically what it says. When you hit a bump or a hole the sterring wants to rip out of your hands.

To avoid bumpsteer you want to have you kingpin inclination correct. To measure this draw a line between the upper and lower ball joints. That line should be in the center of your tire when it hits the ground.

If you use wheel spacers or offset rims, you will change your kingpin inclination, thus cause bumpsteer.

So far no one has posted a correct thing in this forum and this is by far the worst. Bump steer is not caused from adding wheel spacers or flipped rims.

The idea of flipped rims/wheel spacers is a bad one in general.

Bumpsteer is caused from the alignment of pivot points at the frame. The only way to not have bumpsteer is this: having the tie-rod end that bolts to the steering stem pivot point, in line with the a-arm pivot points at the frame. If not, it will cause bump steer. Bumpsteer is when your wheels go through the travel and as they do so, the wheels will steer. Unbolt your shocks and put your front end on a jack stand. Now work the arms up and down and watch the wheels go in and out.

What you are talking about is known as "feedback" for the lack of a better term. Using wheel spacers or flipped rims doesn't change the alignment of kingpins or balljoints. All it does is puts the center of the rim farther away from the mounting plan of the upper and lower balljoints. This causes added stress and makes it harder to steer, and will also give more "feedback" through the bars.

:rolleyes:

[underpowered]

wheel spacer=bad

the cause alot of "feed back", but most people call this feed back bumpsteer. not the correct term, but a commonly used one.

flipped rims does the same thing essentially. it puts more stress on front end parts, reducing bearing life, and making you more tired as you ride to the the extra leverage. the the pivot point so far in from the center point of the tire, tie rods are prone to bending, more load is placed on the bearings. i would do it right or not at all. wider a-arms in the only way to go.

Nother thing is with longer A-arms you need to revalve the shocks. When adding spacers they dont do any thing to the shocks valving.

Their is a kit that dimond j coustoms makes and instead of moving the wheels out farther it moves the A-arms out farther from the frame like 3" each making you 6" wider but thats bad to cause you want your A-arms close to gether as posable. That kits like $250 and for that price you could buy a set of used arms.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by nacs420
Nother thing is with longer A-arms you need to revalve the shocks. When adding spacers they dont do any thing to the shocks valving.

Their is a kit that dimond j coustoms makes and instead of moving the wheels out farther it moves the A-arms out farther from the frame like 3" each making you 6" wider but thats bad to cause you want your A-arms close to gether as posable. That kits like $250 and for that price you could buy a set of used arms.

Those kits are a joke, if you think you have bumpsteer now, .... I cant believe they even sell any! The bumpsteer with those kits seems like it would be nearly impossible to ride like that!

[muddy400EX]

ive got a question, how in hell do you guys run flipped rims on a 400, i did it on mine (just messing around) and it hit the caliper with the tire stem everytime it came around.

[madeincanada123]

so basically i would be best off leaving mine stock and not gettin the spacers. why do racers have extended a arms and axle when it creates "feedback" and its not good?

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by madeincanada123
so basically i would be best off leaving mine stock and not gettin the spacers. why do racers have extended a arms and axle when it creates "feedback" and its not good?

a-arms and axles do NOT create feedback. extended arms with narrower rims is the best ticket. Real racers will never run flipped rims or wheel spacers:o

muddy400ex, they take that valve stem and put it facing inside the rim. Then drill out another hole on the other side of the rim and put another valve stem in. Pretty ghetto.

[XtremelyCrazy]

Originally posted by madeincanada123
so basically i would be best off leaving mine stock and not gettin the spacers. why do racers have extended a arms and axle when it creates "feedback" and its not good?

Extended a-arms and axles works BETTER than stock, not worse.

The extended a-arms give longer travel and more stability with no major "bumpsteer."

Extended axles are every bit as good as stock width, and better when considering stability.

The ONLY place I would consider using spacers is on the rear. But with spacers running you $150, why not just save a few more bux and get the axle?

[asa400ex]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
So far no one has posted a correct thing in this forum and this is by far the worst. Bump steer is not caused from adding wheel spacers or flipped rims.

The idea of flipped rims/wheel spacers is a bad one in general.

Bumpsteer is caused from the alignment of pivot points at the frame. The only way to not have bumpsteer is this: having the tie-rod end that bolts to the steering stem pivot point, in line with the a-arm pivot points at the frame. If not, it will cause bump steer. Bumpsteer is when your wheels go through the travel and as they do so, the wheels will steer. Unbolt your shocks and put your front end on a jack stand. Now work the arms up and down and watch the wheels go in and out.

What you are talking about is known as "feedback" for the lack of a better term. Using wheel spacers or flipped rims doesn't change the alignment of kingpins or balljoints. All it does is puts the center of the rim farther away from the mounting plan of the upper and lower balljoints. This causes added stress and makes it harder to steer, and will also give more "feedback" through the bars.

:rolleyes:


You obviously don't know much about suspension geometry. If you did you would know what kingpin inclination. I do however agree with your statement regarding feedback. To have correct geometry, you must make sure your ball joints line up with the bottom of your tire. (like stated before) Adding spacers or flipping the rims changes your inclination point thus causes bumpsteer.

Take at look at every stock or a professional built race bike. The kingpin inclination will always correct. You will be able to draw a line through the top and bottom ball joint. That line will always hit the ground at the center of the tire.

Can you name a stock bike or a professional built bike were this doesn't happen?

:blah:

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by asa400ex
You obviously don't know much about suspension geometry. If you did you would know what kingpin inclination. I do however agree with your statement regarding feedback. To have correct geometry, you must make sure your ball joints line up with the bottom of your tire. (like stated before) Adding spacers or flipping the rims changes your inclination point thus causes bumpsteer.

Take at look at every stock or a professional built race bike. The kingpin inclination will always correct. You will be able to draw a line through the top and bottom ball joint. That line will always hit the ground at the center of the tire.

Can you name a stock bike or a professional built bike were this doesn't happen?

:blah:


out of all the garbage in this thread, you tell me that I dont know much??? If you would read my post carefully what you said is basically what I said. I understand how "perfect" handling is obtained, I may not have explained it very well, but I was focusing more on the crappiness of wheel spacers. I apologize, next time I will make it more clear. I believe you were the one who referred to bumpsteer as the tires hitting stuff and jerking the bars out of your hands!? Wheel spacers and flipped rims have nothing to do with the amount of bumpsteer on a quad. That all relies on the plane of which the a-arms mount to the frame in relation to the mounting point of the tie-rod ends.

[KingpinsEx]

You don't need to throw down 150 on wheel spacers as advertised in the mags. It is pretty simple to make your own, i used scrap aluminum for mine...didn't cost a thing. As for flipping your rims that costs about 4 bucks for the cost of new valve stems. Compared to 450-500 = axle and 600-1000 = a-arms it's not a bad way to go.

400 rider, i noticed in your info that your quad is paid for...so is mine. And that's the way i want to keep it, sure it would be nice to run a full racesetup but that's kinda hard for a college student who barely has time to ride anyway. I don't like being in debt and if i have to be or have mommy and daddy pay for my quad to be considered a "real racer" then i guess im not. But to me it seems its more the rider than the machine which determines if someone is a "real racer".... not who has the most money invested in their machine.

[Topeka-440]

Originally posted by KingpinsEx
But to me it seems its more the rider than the machine which determines if someone is a "real racer".... not who has the most money invested in their machine. [/B]

I agree, it should depend on how you ride an what you can afford. If you want to go wider and can afford it. Get new axles and A-arms. if you can't afford it get spacers. I've had my spacers on for many years and never a problem. Then again I don't race either, but I still have a whole lotta fun!!

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by KingpinsEx
You don't need to throw down 150 on wheel spacers as advertised in the mags. It is pretty simple to make your own, i used scrap aluminum for mine...didn't cost a thing. As for flipping your rims that costs about 4 bucks for the cost of new valve stems. Compared to 450-500 = axle and 600-1000 = a-arms it's not a bad way to go.

400 rider, i noticed in your info that your quad is paid for...so is mine. And that's the way i want to keep it, sure it would be nice to run a full racesetup but that's kinda hard for a college student who barely has time to ride anyway. I don't like being in debt and if i have to be or have mommy and daddy pay for my quad to be considered a "real racer" then i guess im not. But to me it seems its more the rider than the machine which determines if someone is a "real racer".... not who has the most money invested in their machine.

I put that in my info because Im very proud of that and not many people can say that. I paid $3600 cash for my R when it was less than a year old. I paid $250 about two weeks ago for a set of used +2 houser arms... there are deals out there. Before that I ran stock width, and I would continue to do so before I ever put flipped rims or spacers on. My mommy and daddy dont pay for squat and they actually would rather I didn't ride/race at all. I never said anyone who wasn't extended out wasn't a real racer, but anyone who runs spacers or flipped rims automatically goes down a couple notches in my book. To me it's like seeing a car with spinner hubcaps. Just looks rediculous.;)

[PismoLocal]

Originally posted by Topeka-440
I agree, it should depend on how you ride an what you can afford. If you want to go wider and can afford it. Get new axles and A-arms. if you can't afford it get spacers. I've had my spacers on for many years and never a problem. Then again I don't race either, but I still have a whole lotta fun!!
I don't under stand why people would put something on there quad that actually makes it handle worse. The point of putting a-arms and shocks on is for better handling. Wheel spacers won't make your quad handle better so why waste your money on them?

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by PismoLocal
I don't under stand why people would put something on there quad that actually makes it handle worse. The point of putting a-arms and shocks on is for better handling. Wheel spacers won't make your quad handle better so why waste your money on them?

Exactly my point, I've yet to see a good explanation for it. Sure it doesn't tip over as easy, you gain there, but the loss in control for me is not worth it. If anyone has every seen one break or loosen up, they would certainly not run them just from a safety stand point.

[Topeka-440]

Wow you guys are really strong in your opinions....lol. I think we've lost the point of the original question.
Do these widen out the front and the rear? Yes
Are the hard to install? No
Do they get the job done of widening out the bike? 400exrider707 you said it yourself. "Sure it doesn't tip over as easy, you gain there". No body asked about the handling here, we all know the right way to get width and handling. I've ridden mine with and without the spacers, and I like the width better. So you "racers", with your "sponsors" and your money. Sure go out and buy the good stuff, maybe I can get a used set someday. And its not right to judge someone by what they got on their bike either. "And that's all I got to say about that" thanks

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by Topeka-440
Wow you guys are really strong in your opinions....lol. I think we've lost the point of the original question.
Do these widen out the front and the rear? Yes
Are the hard to install? No
Do they get the job done of widening out the bike? 400exrider707 you said it yourself. "Sure it doesn't tip over as easy, you gain there". No body asked about the handling here, we all know the right way to get width and handling. I've ridden mine with and without the spacers, and I like the width better. So you "racers", with your "sponsors" and your money. Sure go out and buy the good stuff, maybe I can get a used set someday. And its not right to judge someone by what they got on their bike either. "And that's all I got to say about that" thanks

Try reading everything I put before you start quoting me. I am very strongly oppinionated about this subject. Firstly not everyone does now the right way to get width and handling. Thats what these forums are for, for people to learn. I am a racer, and I dont have sponsors(except for a goggle company who will sponsor anyone with a pulse) I went my first two seasons on stock a-arms and stock axle because I could not afford arms or an axle. I would rather run stock than spacers or flipped rims. To me its just too cobby. I wouldn't judge anyone running stock width stuff, its just the people who put spacers and flipped rims on that look rediculous to me.

so like you said to answer the original questions....

easy to install... YES
cheap................YES
good idea..........NO

[madeincanada123]

ok, I thought that wheel spacers and a arms and axles would do the same thing but they obviously dont. thanks for the help guys

[KingpinsEx]

You guys talk like with spacers you won't be able to drive in a straight line or something...I have a question, have you even ever rode a quad with flipped rims or spacers? If not then you really have no business knocking them. Also i noticed 400rider that you mention the word "looks" about 20 times already...That's a key point, people running with spacers or flipped obviously aren't worried about bling and looks. They are worried about functionality and being stable instead of tipping like you would on stock.

I have run stock plenty and in my mind the spacers are a night and day improvement for mxing. So before you say anything else note that i don't think anyone who would be considering this is worried about "looks" if they were maybe they would just chrome the stockers instead of buying extended arms if thats what matters on the track.

Made in Canadia take it from someone who has used them...as long as you set up your spacers right you will like them alot. I would not recommend them for the front, just flip. But using spacers on the rear does not negetively effect handling and even the front is not anywhere near what it is being made out to be...

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by KingpinsEx
They are worried about functionality


Obviously they are not worried about functionality if they are even considering this...

I have rode on quads with flipped rims or wheel spacers. Have you ever ridden on a properly set up quad?

If you want the best handling without getting arms or axles... get shocks. Easily the number one improvement you can make to any quad. You would be surprised how inexpensive a good set of used shocks go for on this website for 400ex's. I would save and do that personally, but you are entitled to do with what you want! I think there is enough information in here for anyone to make a decision....

[madeincanada123]

now im confused lol. There have been so many different idea's in this one thread i dont know who to believe.

would i like to go wider...yes.
would i ever purchase adn use spacers or flip my rims...hell, **** no

i had won a set of spacers off of another website...promptly sold them nice product, but of no use to me...

the wear/undue stress they would cuase on the front suspension components is not worth it...

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by madeincanada123
now im confused lol. There have been so many different idea's in this one thread i dont know who to believe.

I apologize, it was not my intention to confuse you. I just would rather give you too much information than not enough.

Basically it comes down to what you will be doing. If you are planning on racing at all I would definitely not get spacers or flipped rims. If you are a weekend warrior who isn't planning on doing any other upgrades other than this then maybe it is right for you. There are durable spacers out there that should be plenty strong, but please expect other things to wear out faster, and dont expect it to handle like a dream.

Where in NY are you from? Are you going to be racing any at all?

[DE400EX]

I have 1.5" on the front at 3" and 2.5" in the back for 5"

All i ride is trails and hill climbs and do some jumping, nothing like a 20' jump though. I have the durablue ones and love them. I cant see spending the buttload of money just for arms and an axle. I got my spacers for 100$ for the set but you can find them cheaper.

[ffchad89]

wow.....................some of you commenting are real tool bags
my bike isint paid for im 17 and i jsut bought a set of used arens arms for 70 bucks i got ball joints for NEW 20 bucks...if you wanna put spacers in the back then werd if you wanna put them up front then werd......y dont yall exspically (400ex racer or whatever) shut up and ride and stop worring about what other people have. some of us have bills to pay and our parents cant spoil us...

[gncc025]

wheel spacers on the back aren't bad at all. if your on a limited budget and just want it wider they should be the first choice. flippin the rims isn't really a good idea because it puts stress on everything plus the valve stems get in the way on the front. i have had wheel spacers on the back of mine for a good 3 months now and no problems, and ive had some pretty rough faltbottoms from about 6 ft or so in the air.

[asa400ex]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ffchad89
[B]wow.....................some of you commenting are real tool bags


Can't agree with this statement more.

:D

[400exrider707]

Your going to have a lot more bills to pay when your front end falls apart and you get seriously injured from running wheel spacers. Apparently giving truthful, factual information makes me a tool bag? So be it, but you wont see this tool bag running spacers or flipped rims on anything, like I said there is enough information on this thread already to make a decision. ffchad, what does having your bike paid for have to do with anything? Wheel spacers are just as bad an idea if its paid for or not. Thanks for your useless input.:rolleyes:

[eganracing]

i used to run wheel spacers and i ran with them for about two years. one year of trail riding and one year of racing. i finally saved up enough money to buy my long travel front end and i have never had any problems. the spacers didnt do any damage to my stock parts as far as i could tell.

once i upgraded to real suspension components i put the spacers on our other quad and its still workin fine.

recently i snapped the durablue axle on my 450 so i put the stocker back on with extenders and it handles exactly the same as with the durablue.

so in my opinion the spacers arent the best idea or option but they work.

now one thing i saw in the back of one of 4x4 magazines was spacers for your truck. that just sounds a little to crazy to me.



these r just my thoughts. try not to pick on me to much :blah:

heres a pic of the abuse i put my spacers through
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q9/eganracing/img_8994.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

[ffchad89]

well there 400rdier racer wannabe or whatever y dont you take you little wheel spacer lesson elsewhere and let the guys that want to ride them ride them.........and i dont have them up front i have them in the back i have a new set of +2 arens in the front.........so dont worry about me hurtin myself im not a sissy like some people on here whos parents pay for everything.......but your lilttle wack *** quote everytime you run spacers god kills a kittin.....a lot of people have murdered some cats then....worry abuot yourself and not what other people cant afford....now take you stupid thoughts somewhere else