440EX & 16 tooth REVIEW

[Steven]

I drove my 440EX with the 16 tooth front sprocket for the first time today.

My riding partner drives a DS650 with complete exhaust system, Stage II K & N filter, and ignition box.

We found a nice 50 yard stretch of flat hard packed clay to stage some drag races to see how this 440 runs with the DS.

We made the run 5 times and both started in 2nd gear for each launch. To give you and idea of the speeds we achieved, the 440 had just reved out 3rd gear by the end of each race.

Dead even on all 5 races!! Wohooo.

Kudos to White Brothers.

With any luck, this 440 will be able to hang with the DS in 4th and 5th gears but I would guess not. This is a formidible challenge for these are the gears that bike weight means less and HP means more and thats stacking the deck against the 440... so we'll see.

Steve.

[bandit390]

what size tires on the 400ex?

[Steven]

20X10X9 Bandit XC's in the rear
21X7X10 Bandit XC's in the front


Why?

[methyman]

I had bandits on the rear of my 2002 400EX and took them off this past friday. I put on the new Shredder XC tires. OMFG the bike rips. The bandits are so much heavier than the shredders. The bike has so much more power with the lighter tires. I didn't believe my friends telling me it would run faster with lighter tires till I did it myself. Give a try with a friends tires, you will see.:D :D

[ChadEXer]

Get you some better rear tires and out the 15t back on,,,,you will beat him every time!!! Gearing for drag racing is just like it is for cars,,,lower is better,,,,,With my 416 there were 3 DS 650's that raced with me,,,,2 were stock and one had a cam,pipe, jet kit,,,,,I beat all of them!!!! Some say thats impossible, but its true!!

[SandTrix]

i disagreee in the gearing theory of yours Chad. The higher the gearing you can pull without bogging and stuff like that will be faster. Each gear will have a higher top speed and thus faster. The higher gearing may even allow for one less shift in the drag race. For instance, on our 350R we run 15/38 gearing with 21" 9 paddle haulers. Trust me, if you can pull the extra gearing the bike will be faster in every gear and allow you to stretch a couple of bike lenghts on a lower geared equal bike.

[ChadEXer]

Sandtrix,
how long have you been drag racing??? Thats all I do and have for a long time!!! If your racing a 1\4 mile or a mile then higher gearing will be better,,,in the conventional 300ft drag races that i run in,,lower gears are better!! One less shift in a drag race isnt good,,,if your not in 5th at the end of the 300ft strip then your geared too high,,,If your geared low then a have a pull into the next gear, if your geared too high you have to rev it out! I watch this all day long,,,get a 400EX(bone stock) with stock gearing,,,then get another with a 14t up front(equal riders) and see who wins the race,,,the 14t will all day long!!! A motorized ATV is just like a car in a drag race...lower gears are better!!!

[Bean]

i agree with chad, on a 300fter, a lower geared equal bike will win, cause it gets goin alot faster, and the track is shorter, but on a longer track, that low geared bike wont do much

[ChadEXer]

Originally posted by Bean
i agree with chad, on a 300fter, a lower geared equal bike will win, cause it gets goin alot faster, and the track is shorter, but on a longer track, that low geared bike wont do much
Exactly!! I dont know many drag strips that are more than 300ft!!! Not where there are organized races!!! You have to find that happy medium with gearing,,not too high not too low, with a 400EX that happy medium is stock gearing!!!!!

[patrick delao]

I think your both right, in a short drag a lower geared bike has a better chance but in a longer drag a bike that can gear up and pull a higher gear has the better shot. I have tried both ways on all my bike and now on my raptor on short drags I run 1 tooth lower front and on the ln the long drags where you get into 5th I run stock gearing. JMO

[Steven]

Wow, this thread is getting very interusting.

In the case of this 440 on loose terrain, the bike moves forward at a quicker rate in gears 1-2-3 with the 16 tooth than it did with the 15 tooth.

Why?... because the 15 tooth spun the tires so bad that forward thrust was lost. The 16 tooth slowed the tires down just enough to get the traction need to move the bike forward - faster.

Now, I haven't been in 4th or 5th gears yet, so it remains to be seen if the 16 tooth will pull them properly in deep sand. If it does not, then I'll have to go back to the 15 tooth and suffer with spin or play with the tires.

This tire thing has me intrigued. So, the lighter tire will accelerate faster? This makes sense... less rotational mass. But what if the lighter tire doesn't hook as well?

I have found that the OEM dires hook really well in everything but sugar sand. Here, the Bandits work better. I have also had problems tearing and poping the Ohatsu's. Well this is getting off topic so I'll stop now.

Steve

[ChadEXer]

Steven, you say the 16t moves you forward faster in 1-2-3 gears,,,,well if you put that 15t back on and learn how to control your wheel spin you will go forward even faster! With a high powered bike you dont want to have WOT before you dump the clutch or you will sit there and spin!!! There is a point where to hold your throttle that wont spin to much but spin enough to keep your front end down and get you going forward!!!

[cheetah]

lower gears=faster acceleration...simple as that;)

[SandTrix]

I tell you what Chad, a.ka. KnowItAllDragRacer. Ill be more than glad to meet you at LS in Oklahoma anytime you want to find out how long Ive been drag racing and what I know about it. Be sure and bring your money along with that mouth of yours. Ill be more than glad to race you on any of our 3 250Rs. ****, Ill even let you pick the one you want to see the tail end of. If you dont think shifting one less time in a 300ft drag race helps, you obviously must shift alot faster than the rest of us. Like I said. Ill bring our 250Rs, you bring that TC EX and you come find out how much you dont have. Your EX isnt going to run 4.6s in 300ft is it??? I didnt think so. Ill be looking forward to the excuses you come up with.

[ChadEXer]

Whooooooo, somebody gets pissed when they are wrong!! Oh no your gonna beat me with your R's???? I hope that would make you feel good that your R is faster than a 400EX!!:rolleyes: You think because you go to LS and play race with your R's that you know more about drag racing than anyone else????
Like Cheetah said lower gears=faster acceleration, simple as that!! Its OK to be wrong,,suck it up and go on!!!
Sandtrix, why dont you go back and read my reply again, then tell me where i was "mouthing" ..How old are you????
And Sandtrix, since your R's are the fastest in the world, ill be bringing some real competition with me for you when I go to LS on the 17th-20th. Ill be there with an R you may be familiar with, Jake Pittmans Orange frame\white plastic R,,,you can race him!!! Be sure to be there!!!

[SandTrix]

Funny, last time at LS Jake's 350 had all he wanted out running my 250cc motor. Hmm, what do you think is going to happen to him when he races my 350cc that will absolutely run away from my 250???? I like Jake and dont have a problem with him, but I dont mind telling it like it is. I think Jake will tell you that if I beat him out of the hole on my 250 he couldnt run past me. Bad news for you and him is, my 350 is about 8 bike lengths faster than my 250. Hmm, that doesnt look too good for you running your mouth about his bike now does it. Be sure and bring your money for that race too. ****, Jake was so impressed with that 250cc that he spoke to me about building him one. Hmm, I must know alot more about drag racing than you seem to think. Do you build motors for other people??? Stupid question huh, you had to pay TC to make your stuff runs. We build all our own motors and will be more than glad to give you a personal demonstration of one of them running away from a white/orange R, plz show up. If you think Jake's R is fast, you havent seen anything yet.

[YZROOSTINYA]

if your running a 16 tooth up front at WOT your tires will be spinning more not less.

[ebanezar]

I got a trx 90 with a header pipe! I will race you both!

grow up boys

[ChadEXer]

Sandtrix,
When was the last time you raced Jake?? if its been less than 2-3 weeks ago then you got a little surprise coming!!!! You may be right, Jakes bike isnt the fastest in the world, but is is quite a bit more than 8 bike lengths faster than it was a few weeks ago!!! Your bike may be faster than Jakes and i think its cool that you build your own motor, my point is I was trying to help this guy out with what I know about gearing\drag racing, and you come on here talkinf $hit to me then say I was "mouthing "you! You do need to grow up!! yes your right that i dont know $hit about building a big bore motor, but when its built I do know how to ride it!!! Jake does ALL the work on my bike for me(I do help though!!)

[z400ex]

Chads right sandtrix, infact you are the one coming up in here mouthin off to people sayin ****, all chad was doin was helping out a few other people and you jus come up in here like you own the place and act all like your the ****. Check back thru the posts, i believe your the one who started the **** talking?? Who cares wat bike is faster, just ride and have fun and stop acting like you no everything. Im sure you know alot, maybe more then chad, so what if you no more? you want a cookie or sumtin?? Lol jus playin , all im tryin to say is Jus stop the shyt talkin guys....Who cares whos faster, ther is always someone out ther who is faster then you , me and anyone else. How ever back to the "topic of the thread", i was running at 14t on my 400ex, and i was with my dads z400, i put back on the 15t and he was gone.. however i slowly caught back up to him as top speed wise, but as far as i no the 14t made the race so much closer as with the 15t it took to much time to catch up to him. I would love to put on a turbo or sumtin and try a 16t , that would be the ****.

[Crazy4bluEx]

SandTrix- there is alwayz going to be something faster, i am not saying i have a FAST quad, because i know i dont, but i bet urs isnt as fast as you think it is..... and i think ChadExer has gotten a decent reputation around here for being one that gives true info, and what he is sayin is correct, but i will give you the fact that there can alwayz be complications.... but you really need to quit bragging about how fast ur quad is....

*K*

Also what he said ^^^^*Z400EX*

[z400ex]

Crazy blue that quad is pimp looking.....hey your mustang sounds sweet too, wat color is it?

[ChadEXer]

Thanks guys!

Crazy4blue, is that your quad in the pic??? I was wondering how people get those 20" wheels to fit(bolt pattern???) on a quad??? i would like to put some 20's on mine and put it in the back of my truck when i go to the car shows!!! That would be sweet!!!!

[SandTrix]

I think if you look back to the original posts in this thread that i pretty much began by saying I disagreed with Chad and offered my opinion from my experience. Then Chad goes off about me not knowing **** about it. Hmm, I dont know **** about drag racing but my bike runs very very well. I dont think you can make a bike run that well and not know **** about it. You have your opinion and I have mine. I really think that if you take a good look at what im saying it will make sense to you, and I was offering my knowledge on the topic and got blasted for my opinion. I still stand by my opinion that the higher the gearing you can pull in most instances will be faster. There are few ppl around that take drag racing as serious as I do and tinker around with their bike like I do. I think I have plenty of info that would help others if they dont have a preset idea of what works, like Chad. Second of all I only spoke about my bikes to show that I do have a lot of knowledge about drag racing and engines. I dont have it all figured out but I learn more every day. Chad, you for one should know that obviouly we are doing pretty well to make a 250cc engine run right with Jake's bike even a few weeks ago at Sandfest. I do not know what he has done since, but I wouldnt be surprised if he did more b/c I heard more than one person tell him to his face that he did not have near enough for my larger motor. Im sure he also saw it for himself when our little motor was giving him **** the day we were racing although I was having problems. For those reasons alone I wouldnt doubt if he didnt go home and think of new ideas for his bike. But that is cool, that is what this sport is all about. But if you think we went home and sat on what we are running both of you will be surprised. None of this really matters, but dont hate on those you dont know. You should keep your ears open and not presume that certain ideas like I stated about higher gearing being faster not working, the day you think you have it all figured out someone will blow right past you and your know it all knowledge. ****, Im open to any ideas any of you think that would help my Rs or my 400ex to run better.

[GoLikeHell]

Hey Guys,
I think everyone is using the word "FASTER " in the wrong way. If you compare a 15 tooth to a 16 tooth, the 16 tooth will be faster! BUT the 15 tooth will be quicker getting through the gear then a 16 tooth. :D


Mark

[ChadEXer]

Sandtrix,
I dont understand why you think I have a "preset" idea of what works?? My idea of what works comes from trial and error.. Yeah you may be the drag racing king and know more about it than anyone else, but what I have found out from trial and error as well as many other people on here know, andeveryone else who is into drag racing(cars or ATV's) knows that lower gears=faster acceleration!!! Im not going to sit here and argue with you any more because everyone seems to agree you are wrong! Like I said I think you are awesome for being able to build your own motors and make them run like they do (Jake said your bikes are fast!!) I am a very nice guy and easy to get along with, and i hope just because we dont agree about gearing that we can still be friends!! Jake, and me and about 5-6 other guys will be up there the 17th-20th! Will you be going then???

[SandTrix]

Yes, we will be there most likely on Saturday. Ok, think about it like this. In a drag race your RPM should be high the entire time. You will never drop say below 7500 RPM and run say to 10K. At these high RPMs and not alot of RPM to accelerate through the higher gearing is going to have a greater top speed through these RPMs. Now if we were talking about a mx race in which your RPM drops considerably lower than acceleration and a lower gearing would be faster. Maybe with a 400ex it is hard for some of you to get it b/c they dont make enough power to really be able to use higher gearing. But if you look at any of the higher hp 2 strokes, such as highly modified banshees i think you will see that they run much much higher gearing. It spaces out each gear, thus making each shift stretch a couple of bikes on the opponent. It is hard to explain, but it works. In sand drags we have tried alot of gearing. The low gearing feels stronger and faster, but it isnt. All this is really useless b/c each kind and type of motor is different. For the record, we run stock gearing on our 416EX. B/C with paddles that is about all it can pull without losing acceleration due to not being able to pull the paddles. Our Rs run considerably more gearing than stock.

[SandTrix]

Yes, I would agree that Jake's new motor runs very well. I spoke to him about it and he was very pleased with the work that Dale did for him. As for Dale, him and I dont see eye to eye at all. But I will say Jake's bike runs very good. I cant speak for how it runs now b/c you seem to think Jake has picked up some since the last time I saw it run. I am looking forward to seeing how our bikes run against him now. Since racing Jake we have put my 350 bike on my quad, and built a drag 3 wheeler. From our initial tests of the trike, it looks as if it is going to be damn fast. We also have a new and improved alky 250cc cylinder we are going to slap on. The one I raced Jake with doesnt have our newest port work and was really damn tired. But I didnt want to take away how his bike ran by using what some would call excuses. You run what you brung and take the wins or losses how they come. Although I am by no means ashamed of my 250cc cylinder running right with Jake. I will say that he won the majority of the races. Those extra 100cc really help getting out of the hole and that is where he usually won the race against the 250. It is hard to keep your mouth shut when you know u have a jug in the truck that will run away from one of your competitors. If he did pick up the extra bike lenghts you say he has, then Im sure his and my 350 will be one **** of a race, which I really look forward to. I really cant say enough about Jake's R, it is a very nice bike and run extremely well.

[ChadEXer]

Sandtrix,
You say we may not understand the "higher" gearing theory becasue our 400EX's dont make enough power to pull it!! Well look at this thread, i was giving advice to a fellow 400EX rider, not a high powered 2 stroke rider!!! Jakes bike is running pretty well right now but there is some other things that need to be done to max it out but he is saying he probably wont do it for alittle while,,,I dont know! I just think its cool becasue the majority of the work to the bike has been done by him! Jake has 3 bikes including mine that he has to fully assemble this weekend!!! I was joking with him saying I might have to buy him some speed to make sure we get things done in time to go!!

[SandTrix]

The only negative thing I had heard about Jake was he was claiming he had built his R motor and I knew that he didnt. B/c the guy that builds his motors is basically one of our biggest competitors. I have spokent to Jake and about the only thing left for him to do is a light chassis, over ride tranny, and possibly a better pipe. I think a different pipe would help some, but not a whole lot. None of which singly are going to add 8 bike lenghts. You would be stretching to get that out of all those things combined. Dale did a good job on his motor and it runs like it should and that is good. It is encouraging to see small ppl like ourselves and Dale make engines run like they should, not just the high price associated. I do think Jake will be very very shocked to see how our 350 runs. I really wish Dale would be there to witness that it isnt as fast as Dale thinks and talks like it is. I hate to say that about Jake's bike b/c my anger doesnt have anything to do with him, only the guy that built his motor. It is aggravating when Im big enough to say, hey dale you did a good job on his motor, and then Dale isnt big enough to say anything positive about anyone elses bike. So my hostility is not to Jake, but rather Dale. I understand your problems with time constraints. I have a cylinder from Colorado and another from Cali that have to be ported for alky drag, plus the building of our trike, and some tinkering with out slower 350cc motor. Plus Im a pharmacy student and only do this on the weekends.

[ChadEXer]

Jake never claimed that he built his motor himself! Remember that was me that told you that Jake built his motor himself and you said that was funny becasue you knew the guy that built it, and after you said that I asked Jake and he told me that someone else did do all the port work and stuff on his motor! I just assumed he built his own motor becasue he built mine and a few other guys around here,,,he never told me he built it himself!!! What kind of pipe did jake have when you last raced him?? Im pretty sure he has put a new pipe on it since then too!! And remember, the last time you raced Jake he was running gas too!! You know how much of a difference alky makes on a 2 stroke!!!!

[SandTrix]

Sorry bud, but Jake was running alky last time we raced. No he didnt have a new pipe, but he was for sure running alky. Do you know how much difference 100cc makes??? I got money it makes more difference than that new pipe of his, lol. This will all be put to rest soon. I will have my 350cc with me from now on and wont have to talk about what it would have done. Plus Im pretty sure the trike is going to handle its business for a 250. Lookiing forward to seeing Jake's bike run with the new pipe.

[ChadEXer]

Are you sure he was running alky?? He just converted his bike to alky 2 weeks ago??? Has raced it one time on a asphalt drag since???? Wasnt running good becasue he hasnt got a fuel pump for it yet?? But, thats not the only thing he has added to his bike!!!!!

[SandTrix]

yes, he is running an FTZ alky carb and it was running fine at sandfest. I never heard it sputter once. In fact it was running alot better than mine b/c i was working on a new alky Keihen carb that i had built and it wasnt working worth a **** with the needles i had on hand. Tell him that he doesnt need a fuel pump for the FTZ as long as he runs a long fuel line. tell him to run one back to his subframe and over the top of the carb. It doenst look as if it would work but it does. It is cheaper than a fuel pump. We run one FTZ alky and had the same problem as him until we did this. But there is no doubt he was running alky last time we raced. Jake and I sit and around and talk about Rs everytime we meet up there.

[ChadEXer]

Oh, it must not be that long ago since he went up there,,,i was almost sure he hasnt been up there to Little Sahara since he has converted to alky,maybe he has?? I get my motor back tommorrow and Im meeting Jake at his house to finish putting mine together,,I just hope we have everything and dont run into any problems!!!

[SandTrix]

I sure hope you know im knowledgeable enough to know if the guy ive been racing all day long is running alky, lol. Im sure if you give him a call he will tell you that he was running alky the day we raced. Heck, I even recall him telling me he was running the .118 main and dump tube in his FTZ carb. I would be surpised if Jake didnt show up with a different pipe. I told him that I thought he would pick up a few bikes with a more drag oriented pipe. We even spoke about letting him try my ESR trx11 CM drag pipe on his bike that day. But with the ****ty weather and the drag races going on we never got the chance. So you did indeed get the 505 in huh??? You dont seem very confident in it out running some decent bikes. I would think that if i built a 400ex to that extent I would expect it to run with 250cc Rs. So i guess my question to you is this, how fast is this EX suppose to be?

[ChadEXer]

Honestly I have no idea how fast the thing will be! Tom says it will be at least 60HP??? Im stepping up from a 416 so really I have no idea!! I just dont want to be saying I have the fastest bike(4 stroke) and then get whooped by a stock 400EX!!!!! Thats what happens when I bragg!!!!! I hope like he!! I can run with all the R's out there!!! My biggest wish is to outrun Jake on his R!!!! That would piss him of!!!! But I doubt that will happen!!!

[SandTrix]

I think that is high expectations. My friend has a full Curtis Sparks 440EX and it isnt much of race, but then again yours has alot more than theirs did. I guess we will all have to wait and see. But I dont forsee a EX out running a good running 350R on alky. But then again, i havent ever seen a 505 TC EX run either. Im going to LS this weekend to try and get the trike dialed in. I still have to change to my newest alky 250cc cylinder and try the new pipe coming in. I think it is going to be hella fast but almost scary to ride b/c of the instability at high speeds. But from the looks of it, it will prolly out pull Jake's quad on top end from what ive seen so far. The trike seems to be several bikes faster than the quad was.

[ChadEXer]

Yeah i seriously doubt that my bike will hang with Jakes, but hey, thats why I built a 4 stroke, because I want to compete in the 4 stroke class!! I didnt want to build a 2 stroke because thats what everyone builds and its very hard to have the fastest 2 stroke out there!!! And i didnt want to have to compete with jake!! He is the kind that even if I did manage something faster,,,he would come back!!! Here in TX where jake and I mainly race, the 400EX's race in a class by themselves,,then the Raptors and DS's and stuff are in the next class,,,,I plan to race in both classes if possible!! I heard that the guy that won 1st a few weekends ago won like $400!!! he was on a 440!

[z400ex]

Thats true chad, i never really looked at it that way. There is always someone faster...especially with a 2stroke. .Besides ther the most popluar and i kinda like havin a bike thats more rare. 400ex isnt rare at all but as far as draggin you mostely c banshees to 250rs to the Lt's.I want to see your 250r sandtrix, it soundz bad *****. I was thinkin about going for a banshee becuz alot my friends have raptors and the z400s and banshees and im havin a lil trouble keepin up. I need to do something to my 400 or i was think of sellin it and goin for a raptor or a ds650. I do mostly draggin or baja so a bike that can jump and stuff isnt as critical anymore, thats why i had my 400. I would love to mod my 400 and whoop my friends but its like it takes so much money to mod them. I have to be savin my money for my first car comin soon, and its like i am thinkin it might b cheaper to jus go for a raptor or a ds650 rather than modding my 400. But help me out chad and sand becuz from wat i gatherd u guys both know alot about this type of stuff. SHould i modd the 400 ?? go for the ds650 or wat? I dont wanna have to spend a bunch of money, but if ther is some good things i can do to my 400 for not too much, i woudl much rather keep my "HONDA"!!!thanx guys

[ChadEXer]

Z400, I dont know if Sandtrix will agree with me here but if I was you and dragging is what you maily want to do then i would stay away from a DS650!!! Look at the crazy modified DS's that were at Four Stroke Wars and got whooped by the Sparks 465!! DS's are fun to ride and good dune bikes but they are too heavy and not made for dragging if you ask me! If I was you i would just slowly do some mods to the 400 and maybe get a overbore for it some day and then you would be competitive in the 400cc 4 stroke class!!! As far as a Raptor goes,,yeah with the same amount of mods it will be faster than a 400, but look at the motor size comparison,,,its all up to what class you want to race with!!! my hopes are to beat everyone in the 400cc class, take that money, then beat everyone in the 650cc and up class and take that money too:D

[bandit390]

heres the outcome of my 440ex vs a stock raptor

raptor= everything stock
mine= ims 440 10:5, xr cam, white bro. e series slip on, 16 front sprocket, 18" in the back

3 runs

all 3 were side by side and he got the better holeshot everytime

[z400ex]

thats true once again chad, i do no the ds650 is a heavy bike and is good for dunes and baja, but as far as draggin ur right bout it. Well besides draggin i like to jump here and ther and i no the 400ex pretty much jumps the best. To me i feel more in control on it. If i do much to my 400ex it will probly be: 440 kit not sure if i should go ims or wiesco, which one is better? Then probly a cam and port and polished. Oh and does removing the choke help much?? Other than that maybe a carb will be possible. But see from that for the money you could jus by a raptor. I assume the 400 would be faster then a raptor tho with those mods? Wat other mods are good for the price that i could do to my 400?

[z400ex]

hey chad you have any pix of your 500ex that i could see, it seems pretty sick. I think you posted one in my thread called quad show room but ther is like 160 replies and like i didnt want to have to search all thru them again

[patrick delao]

I sold my 440EX to buy a raptor. My 440 had the Wiseco 11.1 piston,XR thin headgasket,XR cam ,5 angle valve job, mild port and polish,degree key,FMF powerbomb header with CT slip on,K&N filter no lid, and stock gearing. My raptor with a full Yosh system will kill it all day long. For you to get close to a piped raptor you will have to do a full race 440 or bigger, I feel mine was a medium package 440 kit and a full race kit with a bigger cam and full race porting and bigger carb will get you right there in a short drag maybe with taller gearing you'll be there in a longer drag. JMO from my bikes
Pat

[SandTrix]

Well, I know a couple of DS650s that no 400ex wants any part of including a 465 Sparks motor. But the whole problems is you have to spend a fortune to make them run like that. I say mod the EX. We have a mild 400ex, 416, cam, piston, flowed head, and it runs very very well. It out runs the piped raptors easily, cannondales, you name it. It does very well. Just about dead even with piped banshees that run like they should. So i say do the EX, they are cheap to build and decently quick.

[ChadEXer]

Originally posted by patrick delao
I sold my 440EX to buy a raptor. My 440 had the Wiseco 11.1 piston,XR thin headgasket,XR cam ,5 angle valve job, mild port and polish,degree key,FMF powerbomb header with CT slip on,K&N filter no lid, and stock gearing. My raptor with a full Yosh system will kill it all day long. For you to get close to a piped raptor you will have to do a full race 440 or bigger, I feel mine was a medium package 440 kit and a full race kit with a bigger cam and full race porting and bigger carb will get you right there in a short drag maybe with taller gearing you'll be there in a longer drag. JMO from my bikes
Pat
Well this may be true for your bike its not the case with most others!! I had a 416 in my bike before sending it to TC, had full race port, XR cam, Yoshi full system, and all the other stuff!! There wasnt a piped Raptor out there that could outrun me on the Dragstrip,,,Sandtrix can even ask Jake about that becasue Jake is the one that built it for me and was at all the races with me!! Patrick, i think maybe you might have had some problems with the 400????
Sandtrix, i talked to jake last night and he was running alky last meeting with ya,,,Dont worry i did believe you!!
Z400 here is a pic of my bike(not finished of course!!!)

[SandTrix]

i have to agree with Chad 100% on this one. If your moded EX doesnt run any better than that then something just isnt right. Maybe the motor, maybe a heavy rider, maybe the wrong paddles. I dont know the reason, but a piped raptor shouldnt be a problem.

[patrick delao]

Here we go AGAIN right off the bat you have to start DOGGING on people that maybe there was something wrong with your bike HUH why do you think everybody get ragged at you MAYBE when you had your 416 and you raced piped raptors they didn't know how to ride did you think of that :) I just told z440 what I had and what I dragged and how the outcome were. I think there are alot of young people in here trying to build themselves a better bike with the little money they have and lately there is alot of dogging like my bike is faster then your jung flying aroung and nobody cares. It has beed said before there is always a faster bike out there JUST how much are you willing to spend.
Pat

[ChadEXer]

Pat,
Im not one to dog on anyone but i think your asking for it!! Did you ever consider that your bike was fine and you just dont know how to ride??? Seems like most agree that a even decent 440 shouldnt have problems with a piped Raptor!!!

[patrick delao]

Grow up already like your quote says for you 95% bike 5% rider thats why you went to a 505 because you got tired of raptors spanking your weak 416.
laters Pat

[SandTrix]

Pat,

Looks as if you were having a bad day. I didnt feel as if Chad was "DOGGING" on anyone. He just feels that a mild EX should out run a piped Raptor. From what I have seen, I to would have to agree. From what Ive heard from Chad, he isnt building this 505 just to out run piped Raptors. It looks as if he has bigger hopes for it than that.

[440exnacsracer]

its amazing how pissed off people get when someone says somin bought theyre quad, but hey, mine means alot to me. everybody just chill and start argueing and lets talk our talk.
Chad...have you got your motor back? if it was me, ...id be on their @$$ to get it back!! the second day i had mine in the shop, i was ready to ride a 440. id have been twice as bad if i was gettin a 505!

[440exnacsracer]

oh ya, if anyone else gets pissed off...., ive got some midol waitin for ya:huh :D :D

[ChadEXer]

Originally posted by 440exnacsracer
its amazing how pissed off people get when someone says somin bought theyre quad, but hey, mine means alot to me. everybody just chill and start argueing and lets talk our talk.
Chad...have you got your motor back? if it was me, ...id be on their @$$ to get it back!! the second day i had mine in the shop, i was ready to ride a 440. id have been twice as bad if i was gettin a 505!
Nac's Yessssir, i got the motor back Sat and had her completely up and running yesterday!! Be looking in the open forum today for a thread, I will post pics's of it and let you know how it runs!!!!!!!!

[z400ex]

Thanx for the replies guys..... chad your ex looks awsome and im sure its so fast. I just got back from cali dunez for columbus weekend and i had a blast. One of the guys we wer stayin with had a tricked out 400 polaris 2 stroke that was bored and runnin on alky. I was like dreamin someday to have my quad modded like that. At comp hill i was doin fine most of the time, loved watchin the drag banshees and 250r's race up the hill. Im thinkin that i will go with just modding my 400ex, becuz i rememberd how much i love jumping it especially at the dunez and then i looked at some ds650s and raptors and was thinkin how i would probly end up happier with my 400 bein modded. The only thing i do not like about the 400ex at all is...its air cooled!! I hate havin my bike run hott and yet alone i can feel a power drop off when my bike runs very hot. Then i go to the z400 and its nice to have a liquid cooled bike but however the 400ex still handles and jumps better. Im not sure how much the bigger oil coolers really do for the 400ex, but if im going to modd my 400 then its a must to have it run cooler. Wat did you do for your 505ex chad as for cooling?? Thanx for the replies again guyz

[ChadEXer]

For cooling I just got a pingry oil tank, some air scoops, and running high octane gas to keep it cool! I had a FST oil cooler but Tom made me sell it,,,he said I dont need it!!! Ive rode it around for a good while and i dont have a temp guage anymore but it doesnt seem like its running very hot!! Im actually very impressed with it!!! Tom is that $hit!!

[400ex99]

hey sandtrix, since you drag race, maybe you can give some
pointers, im just starting out drag racing on the beach. this is what i have: 400ex, just installed a 416, je piston, hotcam stage 2, 10.1:1 comp; choked removed; cleaned up weld on header; 170 main jet; 40 pilot; lowered clip to 4th notch; stock front sprocket, 20 in razr's on back, went to a 21 in razr's on front, (trying to keep the front down); starting out in second gear;
would 50/50 fuel be better?, or that would just help cooling, i also have air scoops. any other mods? without spending alot more money? any help would be apreciated from anyone with experience..... thanks
:)

[SandTrix]

You probably wouldnt see much gain with the 50/50 race fuel b/c you are only running 10.1:1 compression piston, although it would possibly help in cooling the motor down some. The easiest way I see for you to go faster is have the head flowed and/or lose weight off of your bike. It just depends on what your intentions are for the bike. We remove all the unecessary part such as front breaks, cut wheels, brackets, anything that we can think of. Other than that the next step would probably be a FCR carb.

[440exnacsracer]

no front brakes?....but yet you want to go faster.....thats suicide!

[SandTrix]

You have no idea the stuff we go to make marginal gains. You think crazy??? ****, the new R is going to be a 3 wheeler with a 350cc on alky with an FTZ side drag pipe. Now that is crazy. If I can get it to leave close to like it did in the quad, the banshee guys are in real bad trouble. It is going to be crazy fast on top end. Hopefully Ill get a chance to run it this weekend. Chad, be sure and stop by the shop in the middle of little sahara and check out there blue 250cc alky drag R. We built the motor on it. I think you will be very very impressed with how it runs. I think even ole Jake might be pretty shocked when he looks over and sees a little 250cc running very very close.

[ChadEXer]

Ill be sure and do that!! Im leaving in the morning!! Isnt it pretty hard to keep the front end down on a 3 wheeler??? Especially one like that!!!

[SandTrix]

The trike has a +10" swingarm on it. Im sure the wheel will still be carried the entire length of the drag strip, but I think it can be manageable with the correct tire and gear ratios. I think with some 21 or 22" ultra buff tires and gear up to a 15/38 sprocket it will be rideable. The 250cc motor ran very good in the bike, so I can only imagine what another 20 hp will do for it.

[ChadEXer]

Do you have that bike finished?? I sure would like to see that thing run this weekend!!

[SandTrix]

Yea, the bike is finished. We ran it last weekend with the 250cc motor in it. We are goign to swap engines this week, but not sure if we will make it up this weekend, b/c we have gotten very far behind on engine building. We have 4 in the shop as we speak. If I can cut that down to 2 by Saturday we will probably show up to size up the competition. The trike isnt nice like our other 2 bikes, but it will do its purpose. Should be running the 350cc motor, v force reeds, 40.5 mm Keihen alky carb, FTZ out of frame drag pipe, probably 22" 10 paddle ultra buff haulers, with frame lightening, still waiting on a new front tire and wheel for weight reduction purposes. It should haul the mail on top end, b/c that motor in the quad was running with the alky 350cc banshees. Just a matter of getting it to launch well and the ability to keep the front end down consistently.

[ChadEXer]

I raced a bad ***** 3 wheeler a while back with my old 416 and he never made it more than 30ft!!! His bike was probably faster than mine but he just couldnt keep the front end down!!! Im afraid of 3 wheelers!!! i almost killed myself on one!!

[z400ex]

Me too im affraid of those trikes too... here in phoenix az ther is a guy with a trike that has a cr500 engine in it....the thing flys no joke i mean he will give banshees that are all modded head starts ...not just a few seconds but like a good head start and jus blow by them b4 they get to the finish line. I would much rather have a faster quad then 3 wheeler to me, 3 wheelers are much more dangerous. I almost killed my self on one too in mexico. I wanna here how that trike does at the drags...keep me posted

[ChadEXer]

Sandtrix,
I guess you made it there, I believe I seen your 3 wheeler and 250 but didnt know who you were! Jake said he seen you pull in and when i went to the strip i seen the 3 wheeler there,,did you get to race Jake on it??? I know Dale showed up with his R too!! First time ive met him! I had some problems with the 505 and didnt get to do a whole lot of racing!! I got to race 1 Suzuki Z400 with a Yoshimura 450 kit and a few Banshees, and just when I was thinking I had a chance with everything out there my motor starting making a tapping noise and wouldnt even pull 1st gear!!! We think maybe i bent a valve or something,,,not real sure,,,jake and i are going to do a compression test on it later and probably take it apart,,,,,,that really sucks!! my first trip there and my bike was out by Fri night!!!

[SandTrix]

No, I didnt get to race Jake with the trike. But it was ridiculous fast. In fact too fast. We are going to put the 250cc back in it. It was just too unrideable. Jake said his R wasnt running when I saw him out there. He was riding someones 400cc PV banshee. Which I raced him and Dale on. Our gas 350cc was barely out running Dale, and the trike was kicking the piss out of Dale, I would say around 10 bike lenghts or so and I was only running through 4th gear b/c of the roughness. Never got to see Jake run, although if I were guessing I would bet that trike was a little too much for him. The blue alky banshee of Jeff's was the only bike out running it. If you saw Jake and Dale run let me know how close or how close it wasnt.

[ChadEXer]

By the time Jake got back from riding the Banshee, Dale had Jakes R running again, it just had a short in the kill switch!! Jake went out there and ran it a little while until a little after dark, you must have already left the strip?? I didnt see them run but Jake and Dale said Jakes bike is faster than Dales now that its on alky! How did that 400PV Shee Jake was on run??? That is our friends bike, I rode with him a lot but never got to see him run the strip on it!!
I just wish I knew what the he!! is wrong with mine,,,jake said he dont know what that noise the motor is making is either!! Before it starting acting up it was pulling damned hard for a 4 stroke!!! I pulled that Z400 with the Yoshi 450 kit by around 8-10 bike lengths at least and stayed well ahead of a few Banshees, next thing i knew it wouldnt even pull 1st gear!!

[SandTrix]

Yea we had left and went to help Don with his moto by the time Jake got his R running again. The PV banshee ran good on top end but was kinda weak on bottom. Jake's PV R would have out ran it, but I think the banshee would have been gaining on him on top end, but that is all a guess. That was with Dale and Jake running it. I didnt have any problems out running it on the trike but the trike wasnt no joke, lol. I really wish I would have seen Jake and Dale race b/c i know how bad i was out running Dale. I could run through 4th gear and cost to the end and still spank Dale pretty bad. Dad's gas 350cc R was barely out running dale. Both of those bikes run pretty good to be on gas. I think I saw you on your EX once. It was a nice bike, but I never saw u race it.

[ChadEXer]

Were you the guy with short blonde hair?? I was thinking that was you but wasnt sure, wasnt there was another guy riding your 250 R too( I guess that was the white and red with K&K graphics???))) by the time you seen my EX I was lucky to even made it to the drag strip much less race it!!!

[SandTrix]

Yea, that was me with the afro going every where. I have to wear a helmet on the trike, lol. Ya, the white R is our gas 350cc of Dad's. It runs really good to not be a drag ported bike. My R is identical to it other than it is red with a LSR mx chassis. Only reason we showed up was to help tune in a 310cc R that we had built for a guy from Missouri. Don's alky 250cc was out of comission too b/c of a bent shifting fork. I was really looking forward to seeing it out run Dale, lol. I dont have a problem with Jake, but i would kick Dale's teeth in if he gave me of an excuse to do so. He acts like such a prick to us b/c we build motors that run just as good as his if not better. Kinda of a shame. **** everyone needs competition to further progress the sport. We didnt bring our EX down to show you how it ran b/c we figured our time would be spent trying to dial in the trike. The carb was pretty far off, but other than that all went well other than thing was just too much to handle.

[ChadEXer]

Didnt you say your EX is a 416??? Thats what I had in mine before I sent it to TC, actully jake and I built the 416 and the only EX that could even almost hang with me was a 440 that Jake built for one of our friends,,,and Im a lot better rider than him so I still usually beat him!!! Jake got on it and he would usually beat me, sometimes if i got out of the hole good I could beat him!! Seems like maybe i should have kept it!!!,,,,i dont regret doing the 505 yet, im sure we will get it right soon,,,but im going to go ahead and put a 41mm FCR and alcohol in it..

[SandTrix]

Yea, our is a 416. I wouldnt trade it for any other EX ive ridden other than maybe my buddies 440 curtis sparks bike. Although we have never had a FCR carb on it, it pulls really really well. Not the fastest thing out there, but usually by far the fastest EX on the dunes. Sorry about the bad news on your EX. Hopefully it is something stupid like the timing chain slipped and you now have the wrong timing or something. Never can tell until you take her apart. Our has been tore down once since we built it. A keeper on the valve broke and dropped the valve down some. Luckily the valve and keeper got stuck, thus preventing the valve from hitting the top of the piston.

[ChadEXer]

Yeah, Im hoping that its something simple!! When i first got there Jake got on my EX and ran it down the strip (He spanked that Z400!!) and when i look down there he is off my bike looking at it,,then Kevin rides up and tells me he thinks the motor is locked up!!! I go down there and Jakes said the wheels just locked up and its showing absolutely no oil on the dipstick,,,we towed it back to camp and it still showed no oil,,a few minutes later it was showing full oil again,,,we started it and it ran fine, rode it around a minute and checked the oil and it was still showing full!!! We found out that my axle lock nut(RAD) wasnt tight and had came loose and somehow locked the brakes up on it!!!!,,,we still dont know why it was showing no oil, and then all of a sudden its showing full and has ever since!!