somthing I have been pondering...

[1fst400]

I have had this idear in the back of my head for a little while.

what if you rigged the rear brakes on lets say a 450r. So when you push the rear brakes it would dis-engage the clutch, that way you wont stall it when you stomp the rear brake..


I was thinking some sort of a hydro set up, like a magura clutch

somthing like a slave cylinder hooked to the rear brake petal, as you push it doun, clutch dis-engages.

Wonder how it would work.

[wilkin250r]

Does Rekluse make a clutch for any of the 450s yet?

[wishmasstir]

that might work, youd have to have a hydralic clutch then too and put a "t" in the line so both would work. make sure the cylinders are full all the time or if you pushed the brake or the clutch it would push the fluid to the other master cylinder and not the clutch arm. fabbing up a cylinder mount could be done and if your straight up in the air and slam the rear brake, your hitting the clutch too so this would keep you running and straighten you out...interesting idea

[aci clay]

why not just pull in the clutch lever? if you hooked to your brake you drop the front end over jumps by hitting the brake and you would have no engine braking while using the rear brake. Why not just hook a starter switch to it also in case you stall it.

[firefighterjosh]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
Does Rekluse make a clutch for any of the 450s yet?

Yes I belive so.


My friend dosen't have a left arm (well can't use it) and he has a auto clutch (like a 250ex) I belive rekluse makes it

[Tommy 17]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
Does Rekluse make a clutch for any of the 450s yet?

i know pappys old 450 had one when i rode it..


see i don't think i'd like that... bc on my 400 into a turn i'd come in about 1/4 throttle and just tap the rear brake to get it sliding with never leaving off the gas... with the clutch in that would defeat the purpose and stop the slide...

[wishmasstir]

Originally posted by Tommy 17
on my 400 into a turn i'd come in about 1/4 throttle and just tap the rear brake to get it sliding with never leaving off the gas... with the clutch in that would defeat the purpose and stop the slide...

i dont think i ever gas it while on the rear brake, i do tap the front while on the gas in sharp turns to get around them easy. if anything using the clutch and rear brake while on the gas would start the slide then whenever you let off the clutch and rear brake the revs would be up and it would either take off or finish off your slide.

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by wishmasstir
i dont think i ever gas it while on the rear brake, i do tap the front while on the gas in sharp turns to get around them easy. if anything using the clutch and rear brake while on the gas would start the slide then whenever you let off the clutch and rear brake the revs would be up and it would either take off or finish off your slide. you got a lot to learn...

That idea would work good for recreational riders if it was something they wanted...but for racers especially...it would be junk.

Wilkin...yes, Relkuse makes a clutch for the 450s...YFZ I know for a fact, I'm sure a 450r is available also...not sure on the LT-R yet, but im sure its in the making.

[wishmasstir]

well learn me then :devil:

i just think its an interesting idea, not that i would do it but it could be done and would work

[krt400ex]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
Does Rekluse make a clutch for any of the 450s yet?


that right there is the solution. hinson also has a slipper clutch...and so does fmf.

that concept is already available to the consumer

[mach1stang]

it would be good for first time trail riders cuz you never know when you need the brakes in a hurry and the fist thing you go is you foot brake and you wont stall you engine but i think as for racing it is not really worth the time

[54warrior]

If the person is any kind of rider, they wouldn't need something like this. What next, AutoPilot?

(with the Hokey Pokey song playing in backround...)

You press your right foot down,
You pull the clutch lever in,
You brake into the corner and your turn that quad around,
That's what it's all about!!



Originally posted by mach1stang
it would be good for first time trail riders cuz you never know when you need the brakes in a hurry and the fist thing you go is you foot brake and you wont stall you engine

If something like this is available for a first timer, they'll never really learn how to ride without it.

[krt400ex]

its not just for that though. they help the rear shock work more fluidly through the breaking bumps as well because they release chain tension.

[54warrior]

Just seems like something else to
break/malfunction if you ask me.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea or trying to discourage you. It's just that I'd do alot of testing with it before I go on a 30 mile poker run with it. Seems like alot of work for something that, IMHO, isn't going to make that much of an improvement. I hope, for your sake, that I'm wrong and you make thousands of dollars off of it though!!! That way you can say "I told you so!"

[mach1stang]

i still think it will be a good on trails that is just one thing you dont have to worry about when braking ya know but you wil have to figure out how to get it to work with the clutch lever so it does not pull the brake everytime you puch it

[outacontrol]

you got a lot to learn...

"That idea would work good for recreational riders if it was something they wanted...but for racers especially...it would be junk."

well to throw my 2 cents in, Chris Bithell ranked 6th in the world right now, in GNCC, runs a Rekluse last yr and this yr. So your comment about new trail rider is a little off. If the top guys that run all the top setups choose to run it, dont you think there is a large benefit? And he rides a 450r! I can take a pic of one today if anyone would like to see, because i work at the honda dealership that sponsors chris and we have his 06 race quad there for sale. Why would you bash something, that you know very little about, and probably have never tried (in a race). Im pretty sure im gonna believe a kid that podiums with ballance every week, before i believe these guys who read dirt wheels and thinks its the gospel.

Originally posted by outacontrol
you got a lot to learn...

"That idea would work good for recreational riders if it was something they wanted...but for racers especially...it would be junk."

well to throw my 2 cents in, Chris Bithell ranked 6th in the world right now, in GNCC, runs a Rekluse last yr and this yr. So your comment about new trail rider is a little off. If the top guys that run all the top setups choose to run it, dont you think there is a large benefit? And he rides a 450r! I can take a pic of one today if anyone would like to see, because i work at the honda dealership that sponsors chris and we have his 06 race quad there for sale. Why would you bash something, that you know very little about, and probably have never tried (in a race). Im pretty sure im gonna believe a kid that podiums with ballance every week, before i believe these guys who read dirt wheels and thinks its the gospel.


the comment you quoted was about the brake activating the clutch, not a rekluse clutch. the rekluse is a great product...the brake activated clutch could pose some problems...they need to be controlled independently of each other...

[mach1stang]

no i think what he means is put the clutch to the foot brake to work as one so there is no pulling the clutch lever for foot braking thats why i say it would good for trail riding cuz you dont want to be pulling the clutch all day to brake

[54warrior]

Yes, my understanding of the setup he is describing is this:

1. You maintain complete functionality of your manual clutch factory setup.

2. You maintain complete functionality of your manual rear brake factory setup.

3. A new brake/clutch setup is installed on the machine.

4. The new brake/clutch setup works independent of the factory manual clutch system.

5. When you manually depress the factory rear brake pedal, it also engages the clutch. This occurs by using some type of hydraulic setup with a slave cylinder similar to the magura add on hydraulic clutches.

6. The more you press the brake, the farther engaged the clutch becomes.

7. Pressing the brake pedal does not cause the clutch lever (on the bars) to be "pulled in" (I'm picturing fingers getting pinched otherwise).

8. Advantage to the system is that if you are in 5th gear (or any gear) and slam the rear brake, you have also effectively engaged the clutch, thus preventing an an engine stall.


That is how I'm understanding it. As mach1stang stated, the tricky part is solving item # 7 above.

Originally posted by 54warrior
Yes, my understanding of the setup he is describing is this:

1. You maintain complete functionality of your manual clutch factory setup.

2. You maintain complete functionality of your manual rear brake factory setup.

3. A new brake/clutch setup is installed on the machine.

4. The new brake/clutch setup works independent of the factory manual clutch system.

5. When you manually depress the factory rear brake pedal, it also engages the clutch. This occurs by using some type of hydraulic setup with a slave cylinder similar to the magura add on hydraulic clutches.

6. The more you press the brake, the farther engaged the clutch becomes.

7. Pressing the brake pedal does not cause the clutch lever (on the bars) to be "pulled in" (I'm picturing fingers getting pinched otherwise).

8. Advantage to the system is that if you are in 5th gear (or any gear) and slam the rear brake, you have also effectively engaged the clutch, thus preventing an an engine stall.


That is how I'm understanding it. As mach1stang stated, the tricky part is solving item # 7 above.

that is the way i understood it too...i would not want it that way because i would want my clutch control to vary from my brake control...and it is second nature for me to grab the clutch when i brake, sometimes i use more clutch than brake and other times, more brake than clutch...if a newbie were to learn on this system, then they would not learn to use the clutch properly...and a skilled rider would use the clutch as normal anyway

[mach1stang]

dude i dont think you are listening you use the system for the rear brakes only you still need to pull the factory clutch lever to shift gears the clutch is just hooked to rear brake so you dont have to pull the clutch lever

dip****...i am listening...i can read very well...it would not be good to have the clutch activated when you push the rear brake pedal...maybe you should read what i am typing adn try to understand that...it is very plain english


what if i want less clutch when i use the rear brake...i would have no choice but to use the amount of clutch that the rear brake applies...this poses a problem to me...


i knew what he was talking about since the first post...

[mach1stang]

first off lets not get into a big fight over this but i am sure he is not building this for a balls to the wall racer it may be for trail riding and riding in groups and you can be on a trail for a good while i am sure you dont want to be pulling the clutch every time you have to slow down or stop it depends on what he is using it for did you think of that

[wishmasstir]

Originally posted by mach1stang
first off lets not get into a big fight over this but i am sure he is not building this for a balls to the wall racer it may be for trail riding and riding in groups and you can be on a trail for a good while i am sure you dont want to be pulling the clutch every time you have to slow down or stop it depends on what he is using it for did you think of that

actually i dont think hes building it at all, he was just saying it was an idea that he had. i think its interesting whenever people come up with custom ideas

[54warrior]

Just for clarity, I was just trying to describe what the guy wanted to accomplish. No need for you guys to be arguing about it. A setup like this does have it's benefits for certain types/styles of riding.

However, I wouldn't want this setup, nor do I think a "new' rider should learn on a setup like this. A skilled professional rider isn't going to benefit from it either (REKLUSE-MAYBE, this definitely not). peedyquad's statement is completely true:



i would not want it that way because i would want my clutch control to vary from my brake control...and it is second nature for me to grab the clutch when i brake, sometimes i use more clutch than brake and other times, more brake than clutch...if a newbie were to learn on this system, then they would not learn to use the clutch properly...and a skilled rider would use the clutch as normal anyway

yes i did think of that and i DON"T race, i am a trail rider...i wouldn't want something like that because there are times when i may want less clutch than the foot pedal would give with the amount of rear brake i need...

i do a lot of poker runs where there are hundreds of people and i still don't want it...for instance long steep downhills where i am using the engine to keep me slowed...when i tap my brakes, i don't use the clutch...i don't want to have the clutch engaged in this situation...you do that the wheels lock up when the engine re-engages and then you can lose control

[mach1stang]

maybe it is just a preferance in taste i dont know i think it would be kinda cool but i dont know i dout somthing like this would be built

[54warrior]

Originally posted by speedyquad
i do a lot of poker runs where there are hundreds of people and i still don't want it...for instance long steep downhills where i am using the engine to keep me slowed...when i tap my brakes, i don't use the clutch...i don't want to have the clutch engaged in this situation...


Yes, this setup would eliminate ALL benefits of engine braking. The situation you describe is a perfect example of when you would absolutely NOT want this.

and this is why it would be a bad idea, especially for newbies

[krt400ex]

like i have said. they have already been built. go back and read my previous post in this thread.

it is moslty an advantage to racers..not trail riders

[54warrior]

Originally posted by krt400ex
like i have said. they have already been built. go back and read my previous post in this thread.

it is moslty an advantage to racers..not trail riders

I understand what you are saying: Something similar in concept already exists, yes.

The key word is similar though. This is not a Rekluse or slipper clutch like you speak of.

Regardless, it's not worth rambling on about.

[krt400ex]

Originally posted by 54warrior
I understand what you are saying: Something similar in concept already exists, yes.

The key word is similar though. This is not a Rekluse or slipper clutch like you speak of.

Regardless, it's not worth rambling on about.


i also understand that the concept being discussed is different. but it works the same

[1fst400]

I still dont quite follow why someone would be on the rear brakes, but want power to the wheels.


Either way, the system would have to be bullit proof before it would end up on my quad.



I was thinking it would help keep you in controll better also, with your hand fully on the handle bar you would have better grip. And not having to pull the clutch in every time you use a hard tap the the rear brakes would help arm pump right?

[wilkin250r]

Honestly, the Rekluse would be the best answer.

There are lots of pitfalls to having the clutch actually pull in when you tap the rear brakes, most of them have already been mentioned.

The whole point of the clutch/brake mechanism would be to keep the motor from stalling, right? The Rekluse would do that, but it has the added advantage of not slipping unless you're actually at idle/stalling speed. Any other time, the engine is not in danger of stalling (because the engine is turning fast), and the Rekluse is still engaged.

It would eliminate the stalling, but not have any of the problems associated with actually pulling in the clutch. I don't see the downside.

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by outacontrol
you got a lot to learn...

"That idea would work good for recreational riders if it was something they wanted...but for racers especially...it would be junk."

well to throw my 2 cents in, Chris Bithell ranked 6th in the world right now, in GNCC, runs a Rekluse last yr and this yr. So your comment about new trail rider is a little off. If the top guys that run all the top setups choose to run it, dont you think there is a large benefit? And he rides a 450r! I can take a pic of one today if anyone would like to see, because i work at the honda dealership that sponsors chris and we have his 06 race quad there for sale. Why would you bash something, that you know very little about, and probably have never tried (in a race). Im pretty sure im gonna believe a kid that podiums with ballance every week, before i believe these guys who read dirt wheels and thinks its the gospel. Sorry for the misunderstanding scooter...I meant for serious motocross racing....didnt specify it though...way to blow it out of proportion there caleb.

btw...I have not read a dirtwheels in over 4 years, and I dont speak of anything unless I have experience with it.

Originally posted by 1fst400
[B]I still dont quite follow why someone would be on the rear brakes, but want power to the wheels.


[B]

not necessarily on the throttle, but on a steep downhill where the engine compression is keeping the motor going...this is also called engine braking...you use the copmpression to keep the nike slowed down so that the rear wheels do not break loose and you remain in control...but you also have to use the brakes, both front and rear, to keep the engine from over revving. if you use your brakes in this situation, you lose your engine compression and then when you come off the brakes the compression jumps way up and lock up the tires...possibly stalling the bike, or losing grip with the tires and them coming around on you. or another possibilty is that the tires begin bouncing and you got tail over tin cups down the hill...