Belt Driven 400ex

[moose1]

Does anyone know of a belt drive conversion for the 400ex in the after market? A friend of mine made his own(he owns a machine shop) I happen to work for a company that manufactures belts for ATV's(gates rubber corp) that are made of kevlar and other nearly indestructible compounds. Obviously the reduced chances of a shattered crankcase would be worth it alone if the belt were to break versus the chain. My friend has not had any problems with this conversion in the last 4 months and he rides daily. I told him he should check on patents if there is not one. What do you think???:huh

[kalebarellano]

Do they stretch and contract when exposed to water and such?

Does it use sprockets? Cause if it uses the normal things that belts go on, it would slip like crazy he second it got wet.

[underpowered]

never heard of a belt drive before on a quad. i see some major flaws in the idea though. i would like to see some pics of your friends set up.


flaw#1: water get a belt wet and it is prone to slippage where as a chain and sprocket will not slip.

#2: Slack. as teh rear suspension moves through it's travel the chain tightens up, thats why we leave slack in the chain to allow for this. with a belt it would be difficult to allow the slack needed and still make it work properly. even if the belt had cogs on it the teeth on the belt would not work quite like a chain and sprocket so it would still be prone to slipping. if you made it work at full ride height, the belt would have to much tension as it moved through the travel causing it to break or limit travel.

#3 rocks: ridin in sharp rocks, like a creek bed a belt would be much more likely to bet sliced than a chain would be.

#4 Trail repair: a chain beaks on the trail, you can carry a chain break and master link with you to do a quick repair. a belt break you would need an entire new belt, cannot simply piece it back together.

#5 size: a belt would have to be much wider than a chain to take the stresses put on it. most ATV's do not have the extra room for that width.

#6 cost: in order to fix all these problems, cost will be big bucks.


i simply don't see it as really feasible, but if you can make it work more power to ya. i personally would rather stick with well maintained chain and a case saver.

[mad440]

It seems like an interesting idea, i know buell motorcycles already had great success with belt drives on their lightning,firebolt, and thier on/off-road bike. they have not had any problems with slippage when wet and those motors put out way more power than a quad. it may take some refinement but sounds interesting

[04exking]

id like to see pics as well

[exboomer]

The drive belt has cogs so it wouldn't slip but I would be worried about all the mud and gravel and little rocks that would get cought up between the belt and sprockets. Belt drive on a road bike works really well but I am not so sure about putting one on a bike or quad that is riden in dirt and sand. ....my 2cents

[blasterandy]

It sounds like a good idea but wouldn't it be prone to skiping teeth on the sproket. And yea a picture would clear alot of problems. I would just assume have a chain. If you take care of it and inspect it you shouldn't ever have one break.
Just my .02

[moose1]

Originally posted by underpowered
never heard of a belt drive before on a quad. i see some major flaws in the idea though. i would like to see some pics of your friends set up.


flaw#1: water get a belt wet and it is prone to slippage where as a chain and sprocket will not slip.

#2: Slack. as teh rear suspension moves through it's travel the chain tightens up, thats why we leave slack in the chain to allow for this. with a belt it would be difficult to allow the slack needed and still make it work properly. even if the belt had cogs on it the teeth on the belt would not work quite like a chain and sprocket so it would still be prone to slipping. if you made it work at full ride height, the belt would have to much tension as it moved through the travel causing it to break or limit travel.

#3 rocks: ridin in sharp rocks, like a creek bed a belt would be much more likely to bet sliced than a chain would be.

#4 Trail repair: a chain beaks on the trail, you can carry a chain break and master link with you to do a quick repair. a belt break you would need an entire new belt, cannot simply piece it back together.

#5 size: a belt would have to be much wider than a chain to take the stresses put on it. most ATV's do not have the extra room for that width.

#6 cost: in order to fix all these problems, cost will be big bucks.


i simply don't see it as really feasible, but if you can make it work more power to ya. i personally would rather stick with well maintained chain and a case saver.


Many quads use belts on as we speak, but not sport quads as much, most Polaris models and some Kawasaki utility models along with some Yamaha models also. The belts are made of Kevlar and are very durable,they handle heat and friction very well. My company sells many thousands of these every year. The sprockets have cogs,similar to sprockets for chains as do the belts, They are very flexible and handle the elements with no problem. You can go to www.gates.com and search the site for them.

[kalebarellano]

Many quads use belts on as we speak, but not sport quads as much, most Polaris models and some Kawasaki utility models along with some Yamaha models also.

This is true but also these bikes are not very good mud/water bikes. Once wet they slip bad. Also a friend of mine has a gator, and it has a belt, I am not sure if it has the groves on in(i think it does). And when we get into the mud and water, it sucks.

I would personally be more concerned in converting something from a belt to a chain.

What would be the advantages of a belt? All I see are disadvantages. Except for the whole chain breaking thing which is really unlikely.

[underpowered]

woah woah. your talking aobut two different kinda belts there buddy.

you said about using a belt to replace the chain, not the tranny. the polaris belt drive is their transmission. it is a CVT tranny that is infinitally variable instead of having set gears.

in your original post you said about replacing the chain to keep the chain from breakin and cracking a case. those polaris quads still have a chain final drive on models like the trail boss and trail blazer. the final drive chain is much different than a CVT tranny. you gotta know what your talkin about before you can say stuff.

so are you wanting to make a final drive belt or a CVT style tranny? the 400ex already has a gear tranny so why would you need to add on a CVT style? on a polaris the Engine and tranny are actually two separate units that are connected by the belt. kinda like a harley where the engine and tranny are separate, but on a harley you actualy have gears instead of the CVT. Explain yourself please? also pics???

[kalebarellano]

He is talking about final drive belt. Someone else brought up the bikes with tranny belts, but when you think about it its the same principle. Except the slippage would probably be worse due to more exposure to water and what not. And my buddy's gator has a final drive belt and it sucks when wet.

[moose1]

Thanks for the history lesson but I am speaking of the final drive belts, not tranny belts. Again, My friend converted one to a belt drive that was once a chain drive, He simply fabricated the belt drive on the existing sprockets, welded them on if you will. He does not do much mud/water riding, just dry trail riding. I was just wanting some opinons on this. My company does sell many of these belts regardless of there use, many are OE to the manf. I have seen in testing of these belts and that if the tension is right slippage is not likely under many circumstances.I'm with most of you on this but saw it as a possible conversion oppurtunity if someone wanted to do this. If you can make a buck why not?? Don't shoot the messenger!!!!

[underpowered]

i thought from the original post a final drive is what you were referring to, but in the last post is seemed like you were talking about a CVT belt.


But i know with correct tension a belt is not likely to slip, but with the suspension moving the tension would not be steady. a final drive belt works on street bike because most do not see rain or wet weather, and the suspension has alot less movement. also on a street bike the suspension starts out closer to a center point than on the ATV. so tension does not vary as much.

[rockman]

Originally posted by underpowered
i thought from the original post a final drive is what you were referring to, but in the last post is seemed like you were talking about a CVT belt.


But i know with correct tension a belt is not likely to slip, but with the suspension moving the tension would not be steady. a final drive belt works on street bike because most do not see rain or wet weather, and the suspension has alot less movement. also on a street bike the suspension starts out closer to a center point than on the ATV. so tension does not vary as much.
Coming from a yamaha shop I agree with everything you have said. There is no feasable way the belt drive would work on a quad. The cvt belt drive is a COMPLETELY different animal than a final drive.

[interceptorz28]

The one thing about my street bike having a belt final drive is that if it breaks out in the middle of no-where...then I am screwed. I would have to take off the rear wheel and what not just to replace it.

It also seems that pulling wheelies is a little different. There may be a tiny tiny bit more flex because of the belt. Although, this may just be the bike as the engine mounts in a unique way, it hangs from the frame instead of sitting in it which makes me think there is more weight up front.

I dont think it is worth having a belt on a quad.