View Full Version : Z400 VS Moto 440 VS YZF/CRF Hybrid
Someone recently asked me my opinion on which they should buy, and this was my response:
Z400- $5000
custom axis Shocks- $2000
Lonestar parts- $2500
HMF pipe- $389
Keihin 39FCR carb- $549
wheels & tires- $1000
Misc items- $500
_______________________________________________
Total $11938
Used YZF/CRF (Estimated) $12000
Moto 440 $12400
Here you have a bike that will outperform the MOTO three ways from ****, and wont break down every other ride. This bike will hang right with the 426, and parts are much more accessible. Plus it is brand new, not used and abused like a YZF/CRF would be. and resale will be tons better than with the YZF/CRF, because these hybrids are so specialized no one will want them in a few years.
Just my 2 cents
What do you Guys think about this?
Johnny
That sounds good to me. The only problem is I hate Suzuki.
The hybrids would be nice to have because their custom and one of a kind... But if I had the cash and wanted to ride right away and not worry about alot of maint..the moto would be my choice. the Z would not be a choice for me at all..
cdalejef
10-03-2002, 02:58 PM
The C-Dales aren't breaking down anymore!
Jeff:
No disrespect to Cannondale, I think they are a great company with great ideas,I just think that they haveproven themselves to be very unreliable at least from what I have seen and heard
Johnny
cdalejef
10-03-2002, 03:34 PM
I agree that the 01's and early 02's had some problems but it seems the late 02's and all the 03's are fixed. I've been riding my late 02 hard for over a month now with not a single problem. Our 03 demo is problem free too. After 14 years I finally found a quad I like better than the 250R.
Nausty
10-03-2002, 03:50 PM
i'd go with the moto... No way that could out handle or out power a moto and the moto is built for racing.
CBRSLIDER
10-03-2002, 03:58 PM
I rode a Moto 440 today at my cousin's shop and OMG that was the most wicked quad I've ever ridden. If I only had 12,500 sitting around and raced mx. I wouldn't hesitate buying a new c'dale if I had the money. Don't get me wrong, I love my EX but the Moto is addicting. I left the shop covered in mud and went straight to work with one **** of a grin on my face. I have raced against the z400's and haven't been overly impressed with their performance. They are not that much better than my EX, even when it was stock. Moto all the way.
Ray
wow you guys are all about these c-dales huh?
Thats cool I guess, but every race I go to I see them laying all over the place broke down!, and every pro that I have talked to that rides for them is very uhappy!!!!!
Heh to each their own, and I hope things start to work out for c-dale they have put in alot of effort, and I applaud that.
It's just that I personally wouldn't ride one right now even if they gave it to me, in fact I even had the offer and declined.
As I said I really do think their working hard, and have ggod intentions, but they have a long way to go!!!
Please don't be mad, I'm just stating my opinion.
Johnny
cdalejef
10-03-2002, 04:09 PM
No one is mad! Their pro riders aren't that great tho! :eek:
get a crf/400ex quad, better IMO
or a 250r, way better IMO
dont b!tch at me for sayin this, this is what i think
DarkStarRacing
10-03-2002, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by CBRSLIDER
I rode a Moto 440 today at my cousin's shop and OMG that was the most wicked quad I've ever ridden. If I only had 12,500 sitting around and raced mx. I wouldn't hesitate buying a new c'dale if I had the money. Don't get me wrong, I love my EX but the Moto is addicting. I left the shop covered in mud and went straight to work with one **** of a grin on my face. I have raced against the z400's and haven't been overly impressed with their performance. They are not that much better than my EX, even when it was stock. Moto all the way.
Ray
of course it's addicting its all ready hooked up... if you hopped on a hooked up 400ex u would say it was wicked too, my point is drop a few grand into a 400 and you'll have the same "wicked" feeling towards it
So your saying that if you add a pipe and a carb to a z400 its faster than a moto, and just as fast as a YZF or CRF quad?
nope. ur wrong darkstar. I have dropped more than just a couple grand in mine. I still think the moto would still blow its doors off
01TRX300EX
10-03-2002, 04:56 PM
I would probably take the Moto, then the modified Z400, then the CRF/YZF. The CRF and YZF aren't made for quads so I would constantly be worried about them breaking down. The Z400 would be great to have, add a 450 kit and I would take it over a Moto. C-dale is a great company with great customer service, and is even into racing, how many Jap companies can say that, how about none, well except Kawi, sorta.
Mity Mo
10-03-2002, 06:16 PM
since I go to all the Nationals for the GNC I just wanna throw in some info. As far as any 400Ex or Z400 ever being as fast or as competitive in the MX Nationals, NO WAY. I own a 400 that is built and the competition is mad faster than it will ever be. The Z400 will most definitely outrun a 400ex because of the liquid cool. That makes anything fast. The CRF/YZ Hybrids are doing a **** of anumber at the Nats. There is only one quad presently being made that can compete and thats Cannondale. If you are beating these at your local track on mostly stock parts its the rider becaus ethe machines are awesome. The only Pro Rider in the GNC's is Ben Jackson. His problems have stemmed only from mud and muck in his airbox at Red Bud and London. They dont currently have any Pros racing it right now because Ben is hurt and will not return ever to MX. The only reason you are seeing Cannondales broke down are from a fuel injection problem the early ones had and battery cables that are loose. I assure you that when the 400EX came out we had them scattered all over the Nationals tracks. Cannondale is stepping up their presence in the Rcaing world. And my hat is tipped to them. And Jeff I will be looking to come down and and see some of the new Dales. I think I will be selling my 400 to purchase a new Dale. Hope this explains a little of what I have seen and learned from speaking with the riders. And Doug Gust is not on the same Z400 you can buy at your shop. He is on a dirtbike version of the motor. Mo
Johnny_G
10-03-2002, 08:00 PM
Guys I don't wanna stand on a soap box here, but some of what I am seeing is silly.
We are not talkin about a drag race here!
Yes I will be the first to say Cannondales are very fast for a stock ATV, and in fact they aer faster than most quads period.
What I am referring to is their reliability, or more realisticly lack thereof.
Yes the Moto and Blaze are fast, and they handle OK, Not great But OK, but are they what you wanna spend your money on if you plan to really run your quad for all it's worth every time you take it to the track?
My opinion is no, But I certainly respect that some of you like Cannondales.
It 's good to see that some peoples signatures say they have a c-dales.
Bottom line if people buy them c-dale is gonna put that $ into developing a better, and hopefullly more reliable, machine. They really seeem dedicated to this market.
Johnny G -out
Johnny go back to the dark side (scene). I am just kidding I think what c-dale is do with there atv's is great. The seem to be very detemined to have the best quad out there unlike every other company! Lets see if the Z or Polaris get updated and better every year like the C-dale has been. If they stick with what they are doing I think they will have the hands down best quad out of the box. Personaly I think half the fun of this sport is seeing what you can build. I love adding all the things to my 400 to make it competitive. this way it gives it more of a personal identity. or something like that!
yep, yet another reason i like R's over dales, can never hav the same R out floatin around, mods add identity, and if the moto is "perfect" out of the box, ul hav a bunch of the same quad ridin around
I respect what everybody else has to say, but I think a lot of the unreliable Cannondale stories are just what you hear from other people. As you all know I have a 2002 Moto, and I run the piss out of it, and I have never had a single problem with it. And for the people who say it handles ok, have you rode one? This thing handles fantastic, and it is an unreal jumper. Other than routine maintenance the only thing I have had to do is tighten the sprocket bolts once.
Did I miss something? How long have the Suzuki Z400's been out? I can only find a handful listed as competing in the recent GNCC and GNC events. Have they really proven that they are reliable?
If you want PROVEN reliability, stick with a 250R or 400EX.
DarkStarRacing
10-04-2002, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by GNCCer
Personaly I think half the fun of this sport is seeing what you can build. I love adding all the things to my 400 to make it competitive. this way it gives it more of a personal identity. or something like that!
I second that
DarkStarRacing
10-04-2002, 12:58 PM
hey JUSTFINE how many bolts rattled out and are now missing, i know a few guys with dales and they had all the same problems with the bolts comming loose, i just think that cannondale needs to put some more time into building their machines...just my opinion though:D
GreatAim
10-04-2002, 01:05 PM
get a predator :D
CBRSLIDER
10-04-2002, 08:05 PM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by CBRSLIDER
I rode a Moto 440 today at my cousin's shop and OMG that was the most wicked quad I've ever ridden. If I only had 12,500 sitting around and raced mx. I wouldn't hesitate buying a new c'dale if I had the money. Don't get me wrong, I love my EX but the Moto is addicting. I left the shop covered in mud and went straight to work with one **** of a grin on my face. I have raced against the z400's and haven't been overly impressed with their performance. They are not that much better than my EX, even when it was stock. Moto all the way.
Ray
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of course it's addicting its all ready hooked up... if you hopped on a hooked up 400ex u would say it was wicked too, my point is drop a few grand into a 400 and you'll have the same "wicked" feeling towards it
__________________
Actually I have dumped quite a boatload of cash into mine and I don't care how much I dump into it it's not going to be a Moto 440. Don't get me wrong. I love my EX and wouldn't trade it for a moto because I have my EX set up for me and how I race. I have ridden modded 400's and have never had the same feeling of wickedness as the moto. But to each his own. It's just my opinion on the topic. I just couldn't see dumping all the money into a hybrid. Ya they are nice to dream about but not all of us have the extra cash or time to dump into a project like that. Especially with a motor that is not designed for a quad. And for the Z400's, I've seen too many problems with them during my recent races. They really caused their racers some problems and bad finishes. Oh well. Like I said it's my opinion.
Ray
cdalejef
10-04-2002, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by DarkStarRacing
hey JUSTFINE how many bolts rattled out and are now missing, i know a few guys with dales and they had all the same problems with the bolts comming loose, i just think that cannondale needs to put some more time into building their machines...just my opinion though:D I've got around 30 hours on mine and not a single loose bolt! No problems at all!:macho
CBRSLIDER
10-04-2002, 08:48 PM
JEFF DO YOU MIND!!!!:mad: My keyboard is covered in drool looking at that Blaze! :D Wish I had one.
Ray
cdalejef
10-04-2002, 08:55 PM
Thanks Ray! Keep an eye out for Kenny tonight in PA, he's driving a white Grand Cherokee pulling trailer with a shinny new Back Cannibal. He'll be the one doing around 100mph!:devil
CBRSLIDER
10-04-2002, 09:03 PM
SEE YA. I heading to the Pike to try to catch him. It's my only chance to shake him down and get me a new c'dale.:D My cousin has one of the black c'dales on the showroom floor and it's pretty. He also has 2 Moto's and they keep wispering to me everytime I there. Darn voices in my heard. Just waiting to get the chance to hop on a Blaze.
Ray
cdalejef
10-04-2002, 09:17 PM
I've got an 03 Moto and an 03 Blaze comming this month!
DarkStarRacing, I have lost not a single bolt. I was pointing out that the only thing I had to do was tighten a few bolts, and I guarentee I would have to do the same on you favorite quad if I rode it the way I do my Moto. They need to put more time into thier machines. Should they have a sweet *** swing-arm like the 400EX's have that will for sure break, or may by they should have shoddy front brakes like the 400EX had on a big batch they sent out, and I am not the only one who will tell you that all of Honda's welds are less than perfect. Get educated before you run your mouth. I bet you would not take a Moto either? Trash talkers are all alike. NO FACTS TO BACK UP TRASH TALKING!!!!!!
my 400 rattled out bolts all the time, loc-tite really is a livesaver, but, ANY 4stroke will rattle out alot of bolts, its called VIBRATION, because a 4stroke is pushin around a bigger piston and the like, causein more shakin, causin more loosin bolts
only things with bolts i hav heard off (i hav facts to back this up, for all u people), is that, yes he lost a few fender bolts, and on CERTAIN bolts, it would pound out the frame jus a tad, causein the bolt to wiggle around
Foxrage
10-05-2002, 08:03 AM
Jeff i got first dibs on that moto...lol
I think that cannondale are standing behind there machines and fixing the such miner problems that wouldnt make a difference. There is always a lemon and it sucks to get one but most companys will fix you up right. If i can get my 400ex sold im having kandk ship me there Lonestar Canible. As far as the Z if i had a decked out 400ex i wouldnt enen considering buying a Z to deck out they are almost exactly the same machine with a different motor so just bore the 400 and be good to go. For the CRF that conversion can get quite expensive if you do it right. On the other hand if you dont do it right you might have problem in the future. and as far as the kick start goes i dont think my 110 pound *** could get it started.
Quadracin, How many other quads of other brands did not finish?
Mity Mo
10-05-2002, 08:59 PM
Guys this is ridiculous. We could go on for days with info from people we heard from and races we saw. It doesnt matter. All I can say is just settle it at the track. Whatever or whoever wins should be the deciding factor. As long as we are all racing on 4heels instead of two that is all that matters. And no I am not a hippie. LOL Mity Mo:p
honda400exrider
10-05-2002, 09:20 PM
i am in love with my honda and plan on putting more parts onto it, but when you look at it, mity mo has some of the best things there is to get, and i can only wonder how much it cost, so u consider the fact that he has a really really great motor and real good shocks, and he wants a moto, if he really thinks the moto is better, there aint much point in having a ex. i have never rode a cannondale, but since their newer machines have been improved, honda doesnt have a chance, evem if they make something better than the legendary r.
Team Outlaw #34
10-05-2002, 09:27 PM
i agree with darkstarracing and johnny!
4strokin
10-05-2002, 09:41 PM
i think it all comes down to the riders ability to race! i've got a new Z and i love it. i've played around with a couple dales and blew their doors off just becuase i could ride better than them. it's just what i think.
Quadracin, You got to ride mx to race me. I don't ride that weak crap.
cdalejef
10-07-2002, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by Quadracin
Not breaking down now?WTF... went to the St.Clairsville GNCC today and guess what???? talked to about everyone that rode a dale and they loved the power but couldnt vouch for the reliability.....I talk with a few pro production riders that have broke frames!!!!YES FRAMES...and also 1 swingarm!!! and as far as racing they hope it lasts each time they race it....I believe most of their bikes have more than 30hrs though...so maybe its time for a new one???Well anyway take a look at all the DNF's that were cannondales when they post the results tomorrow night.You will be amazed.. for the few that were there they had the majority of them drop out...GO FIGURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:blah Ok Quadracin, here is your DNF stats from Powerline park. This is every class, morning and afternoon.
Honda 7
Yamaha 6
kaw 1
Pol 1
Cannondale 1
Suz 0
When I posted this topic, I never meant to start this.
I met 400exracer this weekend at St. Clairsville, and introduced him to a few Cannondale riders, and will let him make up his own mind about what to purchase.
Sorry if I started a war, that was not my intent.
Johnny G
cdalejef
10-07-2002, 09:25 AM
We're not at war Johnny!:p How did ya do?
Jeff:
I three kicked, and was almost last into the woods. I moved into 6th halfway into lap 4, and was closing in on Yokely for 5th, then flatted a front tire. I dropped back, then stopped to change the flat. After that I charged back , only to get another flat 2 miles into lap 5. What a pisser, Oh well I had a ton of fun, and felt faster than I have in years.
Quad racin:
I personally wont vouch for the reliability of a c-dale, but I don't own one.
cdalejef
10-07-2002, 02:44 PM
I used to have the same problem with Razors, I switched back to Holeshots and have had only one flat since and that was at The Wisp.
Jeff:
those are actually two of only three flats this year for me!!!!!
I rode for ITP for a few years, and averaged 6-12 flats per year so I am very happy with only 3 flats all year!!!!!
long live Maxxis!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Johnny G -out
I used to have the same problem with Razors, I switched back to Holeshots and have had only one flat since and that was at The Wisp.
That's cause you only weigh 80 lbs you skinny arse. Try bieng a fat butt like me! I crush rims.:huh I am running "Bubbas" monster truck tires next season, with Krispy Cream Donuts the main sponser.
cdalejef
10-08-2002, 07:07 AM
With that quad your riding, you could cruch anything!:huh J/K
Don't let George W. find out about this topic,,he'll be tryin to start a war against quads..:eek: I don't think are president will be happy until he's at war with every nation on the planet..
PS..I like the dales,,I'm sure they break down as much as all other models. Plus if your stuff is breakin down, no matter what it is,,evidently you know how to put the hammer down..if you run several races and nothing breaks,,I suggest you leave the pits with it..:eek:
I would have to say that im not too impressed with C-Dale's realiability.
I was at St. Clairsville too. I passed Many that were Broken!
Including a friend of mine, Scott Dailey, he races pro production.
His motor Puked for the second time!..Its back at the dealership for good this time, said he was looking at a new Suzuki!
(I would too)
QuadTrix6
10-19-2002, 08:18 PM
" you can't kill a honda "
Poncho
10-19-2002, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by 400exracer
nope. ur wrong darkstar. I have dropped more than just a couple grand in mine. I still think the moto would still blow its doors off
You sound like an unhappy person. If I could dump "more than a couple of grand" in my quad I would be grinning ear to ear and I work 7 days a week just trying to get mine paid off.:o
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