swaybar on a long travel quad?

[eganracing]

Ok so im trying to mount a swaybar on my 450r with a houser long travel setup and elka piggy backs. the original design of the swaybar is to mount to the bottom shock mount but i cant do that with my a-arms because of how they r designed. i was thinking about attaching the swaybar to the upper a-arm but i dont know if it will still function properly or even how i would mount it to the upper a-arm. if u guys have any input feel free to post.


heres a picture of my front end.

[smoothie]

well I'd like to start out by letting you know that i love your front end set up lol. those slicasts are so sweet. anywho...

I think it would work just fine if you mounted it to the top arm since it is technically conjoined with the lower. the only thing is... a sway bar kind of contradicts the purpose of a long travel suspension haha. a big purpose for the sway bar is to keep the travel limited between the two wheels. a long travel allows for more independent travel between the two. may I ask why you are attempting this? not that I'm doubting the idea but just wondering.

[eganracing]

well i want to be able to race supermoto. i have raced a couple times before this but i want to keep my quad more stable on the pavement. im just racing supermoto for fun but if i was serious i would probaly get a different set of a-arms and shocks.

[400exrider707]

A lot of flat track and TT guys run long travel. The point of long travel is NOT to have more independent travel between each arm, instead it is to have a longer shock (whether or not you gain any wheel travel) thus making it easier to tune the shock. Im not so sure I would mount the sway bar to the upper arms. Theoretically it would work, but look at the difference between the upper and lower arms. The lowers are much beefier, as they are the ones designed to take the load, where as the uppers are pretty much just an attachment point for the spindle. Just something to think about.

[ZSNOW]

i say look at the back of a out law...i have no idea how sway bars work on quads but i know on trucks they mount to the upper control arm and it works fine....

[ZSNOW]

if you could find some sort of swivel to mount to the upper a arm and then attachted the sway bar like that it might work....

[400exrider707]

You would probably have to weld some plates on the upper arm and then attach a heim to that.

[smoothie]

that sounds like it would work jsut fine if you weld a brace to the top arm and attatch it to that.

thanks for clearifying that for me. I was under the impression that long travel gives you more travel, mainly because of the name but also the engineering is differnt obviously to provide longer travel of the suspension. every LT setup I have seen has significant suspension travel gains, so that is where I came up with that. my bad:scary: :blah:

[bwamos]

Originally posted by smoothie
that sounds like it would work jsut fine if you weld a brace to the top arm and attatch it to that.

thanks for clearifying that for me. I was under the impression that long travel gives you more travel, mainly because of the name but also the engineering is differnt obviously to provide longer travel of the suspension. every LT setup I have seen has significant suspension travel gains, so that is where I came up with that. my bad:scary: :blah:

Aye.. Think "long shock shaft travel" suspension.

I'd check with Houser. I bet they'd have some ideas since they probably deal with the issue often.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by smoothie
that sounds like it would work jsut fine if you weld a brace to the top arm and attatch it to that.

thanks for clearifying that for me. I was under the impression that long travel gives you more travel, mainly because of the name but also the engineering is differnt obviously to provide longer travel of the suspension. every LT setup I have seen has significant suspension travel gains, so that is where I came up with that. my bad:scary: :blah:

Dont get me wrong, most set ups will give you more travel. Some more than others, and some not even close to what they are claiming. It is just easier for those who know what they're doing to tune the shock better. This is why I believe 75% of the people who go out and drop $2k on long travel dont even need. They have no idea how to tune a shock in the first place. I am perfectly content with my standard travel set up, and until I get to a national level rider maybe then Ill upgrade.


Also I believe JB sells long travel arms with a spot for the sway bar to bolt up already on the lower arm. Just FYI

Also I dont see why it couldn't be made to work on the lower arms. Is it not long enough to reach the lower arm or what? Im not understanding here?

[smoothie]

makes sense. my only question is... since I'm not an expert at tunning shocks, how does it make it easier? is it just easier to adjust the compression and rebound? does it do anything with the preload? shoot while I'm at it.... just a something that has had me thinking for quite some time... dual and triple rate springs, do they basically help the shock during higher speeds? thats is my understanding.

I'm jacking this thread :devil: sorry lol

[eganracing]

ok well i was searching around the forsale section and came across a thread with a guy selling a swaybar designed to work with longtravel suspension but it is already sold. it was a rath racing swaybar with there upper a-arm clamp. so i went to raths site to see if they still sold the clamps for the upper a-arm and luckly they do. so im gonna order up some of those but my next issue is the swaybar i have isnt wide enough to clear the piggybacks on the shocks. so i guess i gotta buy a swaybar that is extra wide? does anybody know if there is such a thing as a extra wide swaybar?

[smoothie]

Rath racing? lol just a wild guess. good luck with that man.

[eganracing]

i couldnt find anything on there site about it. i'll just have to call them tomorrow and ask how wide the there swaybar is. and if its to short then idk what to do.

[kirtob]

Originally posted by eganracing
ok well i was searching around the forsale section and came across a thread with a guy selling a swaybar designed to work with longtravel suspension but it is already sold. it was a rath racing swaybar with there upper a-arm clamp. so i went to raths site to see if they still sold the clamps for the upper a-arm and luckly they do. so im gonna order up some of those but my next issue is the swaybar i have isnt wide enough to clear the piggybacks on the shocks. so i guess i gotta buy a swaybar that is extra wide? does anybody know if there is such a thing as a extra wide swaybar?

egan,

Flip your shocks upside down (rezzies in the bottom outside). Should not be a problem. The shock doesn't care. I did this with my evol's for tulare TT racing. Works fine. If you doubt it give elka a call. As far as the connection problem, I would go to the bottom a-arm. To much flex if you attach to the top a-arm. I've seen home made clamps made for attaching the link from the sway bar to. Kinda like a split shaft collar with a tab welded to one side of the collar for the connection.

hope this helps

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by kirtob
egan,

Flip your shocks upside down (rezzies in the bottom outside). Should not be a problem. The shock doesn't care. I did this with my evol's for tulare TT racing. Works fine. If you doubt it give elka a call. As far as the connection problem, I would go to the bottom a-arm. To much flex if you attach to the top a-arm. I've seen home made clamps made for attaching the link from the sway bar to. Kinda like a split shaft collar with a tab welded to one side of the collar for the connection.

hope this helps


Is that a joke? The top and bottom of the shock are different widths. You cant even get it to bolt up like that.....:rolleyes:

[quader400]

he doesnt mean flip them like that, he means so that the rezzie is on the inside instead of on the outside.

also i found this hope it helps says they make it for lt setups
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PGR-Sway-Bar-new-yfz-450r-ltr-trx-z400-kfx-Z-250r-450_W0QQitemZ280086122024QQihZ018QQcategoryZ43974Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[bwamos]

Originally posted by quader400
he doesnt mean flip them like that, he means so that the rezzie is on the inside instead of on the outside.

also i found this hope it helps says they make it for lt setups
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PGR-Sway-Bar-new-yfz-450r-ltr-trx-z400-kfx-Z-250r-450_W0QQitemZ280086122024QQihZ018QQcategoryZ43974Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Actually he specifically said
Flip your shocks upside down (rezzies in the bottom outside).

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by bwamos
Actually he specifically said


Yeah thanks

quader400, thats still just as dumb because they wont mount that way either.:rolleyes:

[smoothie]

I don't know man, I've seen some shocks mounted like that.... might have made some modification to make them fit...

[quader400]

your right he did say upside down i didnt read it right, and that deffinatley would not work

[eganracing]

i knew i should have gone with remotes! lol

[kirtob]

OK, I guess I have to explain a little deeper. Yes you do flip your shocks upside down. I can't remember if I had the rezzies towards the inside or outside. Might have been the inside. For the issue of mounting up to the frame and lower a-arms tabs, if your elkas have spacer bushing on either side of the heim's at each end of the shock, take your bottom spacers and move them to the top and your tops to the bottom. This will give you the correct width for the space between the mounting points. Works with fox, never owned a set of elkas. Do I need to flip mine and take a picture for you people?? What type of spacers do elka's have at the pivot?

[joshyz125]

If you have the access to the machines, lathe, and a mill, you could make one, i made one for a 450r, all aluminum, adjustable mounts so it would fit he yfz and 400ex, and more. also used poly bushings, and put a greese zerk in it.
used heims joints on the ends with a tie rod set up, i made mine mount inside the stock upper ball joint on the stock 450r arms, and the front upper a-arm bolt. Worked great.
But i access to all the machines i needed. i think i had about 80 bucks in mind, but i bought more aluminum then i ended up needing

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by kirtob
OK, I guess I have to explain a little deeper. Yes you do flip your shocks upside down. I can't remember if I had the rezzies towards the inside or outside. Might have been the inside. For the issue of mounting up to the frame and lower a-arms tabs, if your elkas have spacer bushing on either side of the heim's at each end of the shock, take your bottom spacers and move them to the top and your tops to the bottom. This will give you the correct width for the space between the mounting points. Works with fox, never owned a set of elkas. Do I need to flip mine and take a picture for you people?? What type of spacers do elka's have at the pivot?

First off shocks dont have heims on them. Secondly they will NOT mount upside down. You can move spacers all day long they're not going to work like that. The bottom mount is twice as wide as the top one. If you put the bottom of the shock at the top it wont even fit into the shock mount. Maybe you could make it work on other models where the shock itself isn't twice as wide on the bottom as it is on the top, but not on this one.

[kirtob]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
First off shocks dont have heims on them. Secondly they will NOT mount upside down. You can move spacers all day long they're not going to work like that. The bottom mount is twice as wide as the top one. If you put the bottom of the shock at the top it wont even fit into the shock mount. Maybe you could make it work on other models where the shock itself isn't twice as wide on the bottom as it is on the top, but not on this one.

egan,

Sound like 400ex can help you, hes got alot of input. The only other suggestion I have is run you stockers or sell the elkas and buy some evols.

late

[hanzito]

i use a 1/4 inch thick u bolt from the hardware store. with two plates doubled up and a hole drilled through for the third mounting position. look at the pictures and if you have any questions ask me. i made it a full flat track season on mine and it cost me about 3 dollars at the local hardare store.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j237/hansshanks/942918950110_0_BG.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j237/hansshanks/514918950110_0_BG.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j237/hansshanks/20070304_00124.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j237/hansshanks/20070304_00123.jpg

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by kirtob
egan,

Sound like 400ex can help you, hes got alot of input. The only other suggestion I have is run you stockers or sell the elkas and buy some evols.

late

The only reason you could possibly mount an evol upside down is because the upper and lower part of the shock are the same width, they use spacers which you would just have to switch from to bottom. I still see no real benefit, and I'm still not sure that would work because the rezzie might hit the lower a-arm. The picture you put up, the evol is mounted correctly. That is not the big reservoir on the bottom.

[eganracing]

hanzito,
thanks for those pics. im gonna try your method. did u have any issues with the brackets shifting?

[bwamos]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
First off shocks dont have heims on them.

Actually you can get heims on some shocks. I know I have heims joints on my Works shocks (optional).

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by bwamos
Actually you can get heims on some shocks. I know I have heims joints on my Works shocks (optional).

can I see a pic? Thanks bwamos

[hanzito]

Originally posted by eganracing
hanzito,
thanks for those pics. im gonna try your method. did u have any issues with the brackets shifting?

nope havent had a problem with them at all. i even tumbeled it down the straight away once and fliped it in the corner once. bent a steering stem but no problems with teh stem. now if i could just keep other riders out of my tires and keep it ruber side down i would be fine

[ACEwrench]

http://jbatvracing.com/billet.php (here is a picture of a swaybar clamp the SHOULD be used)

attaching your sway bar to the front of your a-arms may cause your sway bar to bind limiting function and travel...a good rule of thumb is to have the "arms" of your sway bar level to the ground at ride height. i mount my sway bar to the back of the top a-arm...

Rath's sway bar is pretty wide so it should work with your piggy back rezzies (but it would be alot easier with remotes).

[kirtob]

Originally posted by ACEwrench
http://jbatvracing.com/billet.php (here is a picture of a swaybar clamp the SHOULD be used)

attaching your sway bar to the front of your a-arms may cause your sway bar to bind limiting function and travel...a good rule of thumb is to have the "arms" of your sway bar level to the ground at ride height. i mount my sway bar to the back of the top a-arm...

Rath's sway bar is pretty wide so it should work with your piggy back rezzies (but it would be alot easier with remotes).

Those clamps are the chit. Egan, here is you solution for mounting the linkages. $20 each is cheap. As far as problem of the sway bar arms hitting the rezzies I still think you shoud send 400ex a check for a consulting fee. For the record, evols do have heim inserts in them.

[MOVIN32]

RATH RACING MAKES A 24INCH SWAY BAR AN CLAMP TO MOUNT ON UPPER ARM

[eganracing]

Originally posted by kirtob
Those clamps are the chit. Egan, here is you solution for mounting the linkages. $20 each is cheap. As far as problem of the sway bar arms hitting the rezzies I still think you shoud send 400ex a check for a consulting fee. For the record, evols do have heim inserts in them.

yeah rath sells the same kind of clamps. so i'll go with those clamps or raths. im just short on cash as of now so this setup is gonna have to wait (my truck needs new rubber and i need new mx tires)

[Steven450R]

Hey Egan, I just got my rath sway bar with the upper clamps installed this week. They shorten the links on sway bar, so you won't have to mess with cutting & tapping. The sway bar sets pretty low to.
Going to be at Madera next saturday?

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/bragger/SWAYBAR-4.JPG
http://webzoom.freewebs.com/bragger/SWAYBAR-2.JPG

[eganracing]

o man it looks like u stepped up your setup for supermoto. im jealous.

is there a race this weekend at madera? i totally forgot that was starting up soon. if there is i will definently try to make it out there. i just need an axle. i managed to snap the durablue and they havent sent me a new one yet.

so im gonna try and run with the stock axle with extenders and no swaybar. i havent gotten the money to buy real tires yet so im gonna stick with the bald ITP's. it should be interesting.

[Steven450R]

Originally posted by eganracing
o man it looks like u stepped up your setup for supermoto. im jealous.

is there a race this weekend at madera? i totally forgot that was starting up soon. if there is i will definently try to make it out there. i just need an axle. i managed to snap the durablue and they havent sent me a new one yet.

so im gonna try and run with the stock axle with extenders and no swaybar. i havent gotten the money to buy real tires yet so im gonna stick with the bald ITP's. it should be interesting.

Thats my TT setup. I'm not running my rear hoosiers, got some duro tires for the rear. Not sure what I'm going to do about the front just yet:confused:
The Madera race is this weekend at the speedway, it's the opening night for the speedway. So we'll be running with the big boys:scary: I'm a little worried what the cost well be since it's a nascar track.
http://www.racemadera.com/Page1.html
Also, STTars is going to have couple of SM races at Buttonwillow later this year. http://www.supertt.com/

[eganracing]

do u have an idea what the track layout is gonna be like? because if its just an oval im not gonna stand a chance with out a swaybar on my 450. i might have to break out the old 440 and kick some *** on that thing. im pretty sure i could get the swaybar to mount up on it. u know now that i think about it if there arent going to be any jumps my 440 would be the right bike to bring(the red quad that flipped in the stockton race on the big sweeper).

[Steven450R]

I'm 99.9% sure that we're not going to run the whole oval. Supermotousa.com is putting on the race, it's part of their Central Valley Series, they did a similar thing at altamont raceway last year. I didn't see the 440 wreck at Stockton, but I do remeber seeing it out their.

[eganracing]

im kinda up in the air on what i'll run but either way i'll be out there. i might just bring both and make a decision there.

[esr250r86]

Why would you get long travel and then put a swaybar on it? wouldnt this be defeating the purpose of having a swaybar?:confused:

[eganracing]

because the primary use of my quad is for racing mx and i would like to do a little supermoto on the side.

[esr250r86]

Oh, ok.

[brandon34r]

here is a pic of my LT Epic front end.A fellow site member had these before I did and all he did was weld a tab to each of the lower a-arms to run a sway-bar.It looks to be a good idea and does not get in the way of anything.Its hard to see,but you can se the tabs sticking out.If you want a little bit better and up to date pic,I can go snap one for ya.

[eganracing]

i thought about welding something on there but i didnt want to have to mess up the powder coat which is y im gonna go with clamps. the clamps will probaly mess up the coat after awhile though.

[Steven450R]

Well egan, it doesn't look like I'm going to show up for the first race/exhibtion race. Don't want to use up my non-SM tires.

http://www.supermotojunkie.com/showthread.php?t=31934

Details for the Clawson Motorsports Central Valley Supermoto Series event #1

Saturday March 31st 2007 Madera Speedway, Madera CA

Due to several unexpected setbacks at the speedway, a proper dirt section will not be ready in time for opening night. However, we will have an opportunity to promote the upcoming Supermoto events by doing an Exhibition to show the race fans how cool this sport is. We will allow up to 25 motorcycles and 10 ATV’s to take part in the demo’s with a cash prize for the fastest lap! There is no rider entry for this exhibition, but all participants and their crew must pay a $15. pit pass. NO one under 16 allowed in the pits (racers excluded) 250cc and bigger bikes only please. This is a great opportunity for racers to see the facility and try this track in front of a crowd

* Motorcycles and quads should arrive between 2:00pm & 3:30pm
* There will be one quickie warm up session for bikes and ATV’s around 4:00 – 4:30pm
* Then a Demo/show at around 7:30,

* Pit in the designated area for Supermoto participants and follow the track rules

** The track is a 1/3 mile banked paved oval and will have a complete dirt section built when conditions allow. But for the purposes of this exhibition, it will be only pavement

Schedule:

March 31st -Opening Day Smokey Hanoian 100 / Twilight Show
10:00AM / Pits Open - Registration
12:00 - 2:30PM Practice
2:00PM Grandstands Open
2:30 - 4:00 Time Trials
4:20 Opening Ceremonies
4:30 Green Flag
The Track is located in the Madera Fair grounds off hwy 99
For Directions visit http://www.racemadera.com/Page1.html
Each Central Valley series race will have a unique schedule, please check website for details
www.racemadera.com
www.clawsonmotorsports.com
www.supermotousa.com

2007 CLAWSON MOTORSPORTS
Central Valley Supermoto Series
• March 31st Madera Speedway, Madera, CA
Opening Night Exhibition / Bikes and Quads
• April 21st Altamont Motorsports Park, Tracy CA
Supermoto bikes, quads and drifting
• May 5th Madera Speedway, Madera, CA
Bikes and Quads
• June 2nd Madera Speedway, Madera, CA
Nor –Cal Championship round # 4 (All classes)
• July 6th Stockton Motorplex, Stockton, CA
Friday Night Race – Bikes Only / All Classes
• Sept. 1st Madera Speedway, Madera, CA
Bikes and Quads
• Oct 20th Madera Speedway, Madera, CA
Bikes and Quads
www.supermotousa.com

[eganracing]

theres no way im gonna spen the money to drive there to go around in circles and not even race. o well i'll try to make the next one.

im goin to marysville e-street track this sunday for the first race of the series. if your bored u might wanna come race that.