Opinions on Transponders for ATVA

[FourFiftyFour]

I see how they can be good for the races for people in the points race.. but for someone like me who is only planning on racing one national this year... I think it is stupid that I have to rent one for $20 and put an additional $80 down for a deposit...that is just more cash that I have to have on me.. I dont like carrying cash to begin with and now I have to take out this money from the bank just so I can put it back in. I feel like they are a total waste for someone who is only racing one national and who isnt worried about points :ermm:

[ronnoc47]

I agree 100%. I can see the Pros and Pro am or even the A class using them. Guys like me who will only go to 1 or 2 races, I feel it shouldn't be required. I'm only racing for a trophy not fame or fortune. Now it means that I'll have to scrape up another $100 to race.

[AtvMxRider]

Honestly i wish all tracks used them. It would cut down on all the confusion with scoring. I don't know about other districts but D13 has some pretty chitty scorer's

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by AtvMxRider
Honestly i wish all tracks used them. It would cut down on all the confusion with scoring. I don't know about other districts but D13 has some pretty chitty scorer's

Agreed, our district has had quite a few mishaps with scoring. I remember one race back in the day in quad novice, 15 riders in the field, everyone finished, but only 9 riders got posted and in wrong order.:rolleyes:

[Scro]

Just my initial thoughts, but doesn't it make more sense to mount the transponder at a fixed point on the frame? I mean, technically speaking, in a close race a person could move their foot forward atleast a whole foot to try to get ahead.

dumb question idk...what is a transponder? thanks

[ST87]

Originally posted by Scro
Just my initial thoughts, but doesn't it make more sense to mount the transponder at a fixed point on the frame? I mean, technically speaking, in a close race a person could move their foot forward atleast a whole foot to try to get ahead.

I heard something about this with bikes that you would see people when goin over a finish line side by side both riders would have there legs stuck out as far forward as they could go. I never saw this just heard of it.

[troyleepred719]

http://www.amb-it.com/modules/index2.php?name=System%20Component&scID=34&systemID=9

[CannondaleRider]

I like transponders so much better then hand scoring.

Hand scoring is unreliable, and can't give you exact lap times. With transponders, I can check out my lap times on my Series website. I can see how consistent I was, or how inconsistent, how much I need to improve, how long I stopped to helped that downed rider, etc. etc.

Much more advantages then disadvantages.

As long as you don't have to buy the thing for only one race, big deal, you get your money back, no harm, no foul.

Better then some idiotic official hand scoring and screwing up your race.

[QuadJunkies]

We use these in WORCS and they are an AWESOME thing to have !
Especially in scoring and it also keeps track of riders lap times and consistancies in laps for someone who also may have cut the track. not to say that transponders are 100% accuarate as far as reading (thats why Tech insepection is so improtant to check for bad readings/defective transponders,ect.)but its alot nicer to have to get a much more accuarate scoring this way.
We mount ours on a solid/fixed spot on the frame.

[yfzttracer76]

we used to use them at a local tt track. are they going to be used for the tt nationals as well and what is this u have to pay 100 a race to use them?

[Fred55]

As I see now, for the nationals, it is rediculoius to have to rent one if your going to race only 1 or 2 nationals. On the other hand, everytrack should look into getting them, which would mean you would buy one, but also use them at the local level, and could also use them for the nationals.

[Ripitupfilms]

do you get the 20$ and 80$ back

[RG #43]

One thing I have a gripe about is the race association passing the fee over to the racers. Before you call me a whiner, think about it. It is the sanctions responsibility to provide scoring in the race fee. If "they" decide to implement a technology that is easier to use, has less error etc...they should foot the bill. It is their responsibility to provide a sanctioned event with scoring and that fee should be included in your licence and entry fee's and it should be standardized across their entire organization. I would rather see it implement everywhere and the licence fee jump say $30 for everyone and have the same across the board rather than be forced to buy one that is only usefull at select venues, or be forced to rent one w/ a deposit fee at those select events.

Maybe they should look at their year end profits and determine if this is an affordable option for the association instead of just passing the buck on to the racers. If it's not, they can look at ways of generating revenue to go towards it for the following season.

I come from a sanction that has run with transponders for the past 3 yrs and I would rather have a lap counter. Ours mounted to the machine, but placement was important as frames caused interference if placed between to many rails. It's also another expensive replacement item in the event of a wreck or if it falls off (it was mounted with a transponder clip that is ziptied to the machine. In any case, they passed on the buck and tried to encourage racers to buy their own-they sold 2 and charged a $2 rental fee for the rest which started at $5. I for one do not want to be in charge of remembering to pack, charge, and repair my scoring system, and god forbid replace it.

just my 2 cents.

[bwamos]

Originally posted by FourFiftyFour
I see how they can be good for the races for people in the points race.. but for someone like me who is only planning on racing one national this year... I think it is stupid that I have to rent one for $20 and put an additional $80 down for a deposit...that is just more cash that I have to have on me.. I dont like carrying cash to begin with and now I have to take out this money from the bank just so I can put it back in. I feel like they are a total waste for someone who is only racing one national and who isnt worried about points :ermm:

$20 is nothing. :/
People spend 10x that for stickers. :P

I think it's a great idea.

Also, finishes aren't going to be an issue. They still photo that. It just makes sure that guy that's a lap down doesn't get counted as finishing in 5th place. ;) Or the guy that finishes in 5th doesn't get counted as being a lap down.

[trick250r]

Originally posted by RG #43
One thing I have a gripe about is the race association passing the fee over to the racers. Before you call me a whiner, think about it. It is the sanctions responsibility to provide scoring in the race fee. If "they" decide to implement a technology that is easier to use, has less error etc...they should foot the bill. It is their responsibility to provide a sanctioned event with scoring and that fee should be included in your licence and entry fee's and it should be standardized across their entire organization. I would rather see it implement everywhere and the licence fee jump say $30 for everyone and have the same across the board rather than be forced to buy one that is only usefull at select venues, or be forced to rent one w/ a deposit fee at those select events.

Maybe they should look at their year end profits and determine if this is an affordable option for the association instead of just passing the buck on to the racers. If it's not, they can look at ways of generating revenue to go towards it for the following season.

I come from a sanction that has run with transponders for the past 3 yrs and I would rather have a lap counter. Ours mounted to the machine, but placement was important as frames caused interference if placed between to many rails. It's also another expensive replacement item in the event of a wreck or if it falls off (it was mounted with a transponder clip that is ziptied to the machine. In any case, they passed on the buck and tried to encourage racers to buy their own-they sold 2 and charged a $2 rental fee for the rest which started at $5. I for one do not want to be in charge of remembering to pack, charge, and repair my scoring system, and god forbid replace it.

just my 2 cents.



i completely agree... couldnt have said it better.

If yer lookin' fer a cheap sport, try badminton.

[tamehart]

I think this is a great idea. The cost of switching to this new system is surley not cheap, so $20 sure doesn't seem bad to me. I believe the WPSA will also be running transponders.

I think the ATVA is taking the right step in this situation.

[bwamos]

Originally posted by RG #43
One thing I have a gripe about is the race association passing the fee over to the racers. Before you call me a whiner, think about it. It is the sanctions responsibility to provide scoring in the race fee. If "they" decide to implement a technology that is easier to use, has less error etc...they should foot the bill. It is their responsibility to provide a sanctioned event with scoring and that fee should be included in your licence and entry fee's and it should be standardized across their entire organization. I would rather see it implement everywhere and the licence fee jump say $30 for everyone and have the same across the board rather than be forced to buy one that is only usefull at select venues, or be forced to rent one w/ a deposit fee at those select events.

They are including the cost of the scoring system with the fee.

They are not including the cost of the on-bike unit. Instead of lumping it into and raising the fee.. they are giving you options. If you race often you can purchase one for $100. If you only race 1 event, you only have to fork over $20 after all is said and done. (you get the 80 back.)

They could just raise the fee $10 per racer .. but then the guy that races 13 races would be paying $130 for a $100 transponder he doesn't even get to keep or use in other racing organizations.

I'd love to see these implemented in the MHSC races, instead of wasting time trying to wipe mud off of a white paper sticker to UPC scan at a gate. ;)

Originally posted by tamehart
I think the ATVA is taking the right step in this situation.

If we want to be taken seriously as a serious racing sport, we need to do what most every other racing sport does in regards to race scoring.

[161xchonda]

Originally posted by Scro
Just my initial thoughts, but doesn't it make more sense to mount the transponder at a fixed point on the frame? I mean, technically speaking, in a close race a person could move their foot forward atleast a whole foot to try to get ahead.

The transponder is placed on the left boot of the rider. I do not know about you but if I stuck out my foot to try to beat another rider I can tell you for a fact it would slow down almost any rider.

This is the site for the transponders. http://www.mxtransponder.com/

The transponder itself is placed inside an elastic pouch that fits over your boot.

The transponder on the home page of the amb website is not the transponder that is used. AMB makes the transponders but does not score the races.

I know more than you would want to know about those little yellow things. My uncle owns the company. Worked for him many times in my short life.

[RG #43]

Originally posted by bwamos
They are including the cost of the scoring system with the fee.

They are not including the cost of the on-bike unit. Instead of lumping it into and raising the fee.. they are giving you options. If you race often you can purchase one for $100. If you only race 1 event, you only have to fork over $20 after all is said and done. (you get the 80 back.)

They could just raise the fee $10 per racer .. but then the guy that races 13 races would be paying $130 for a $100 transponder he doesn't even get to keep or use in other racing organizations.

I'd love to see these implemented in the MHSC races, instead of wasting time trying to wipe mud off of a white paper sticker to UPC scan at a gate. ;)

I think you misread that. I said raise the licence fee $30, this would mean you AMA, ATVA licence would be $69 vs. the $39 it is and not change the race entry fee's at all. We buy number plates already and its not like we no longer need them, we now need both. Like I said, I have raced in a sanction that uses now, and has used for the past 3 yrs- AMB transponder units. The option is to pay more regardless of the amount and in the end your result is the same-getting scored to race at a sanctioned event.

Are the WPSA and the ATVA using the same units? I know if I had bought the transponder here, it would be useless there as it mounts to the machine, not my ankle. I have 3 racers in my family, so that would mean 3 units or if time allowed, we could relay race with them between moto's...you get my point? now if they are different units between different sanctions, well...you do the math. $80 deposit and $20 rental fee x3 at each event that has them, Maybe I should take up badminton:ermm:

Originally posted by RG #43
..... Maybe I should take up badminton:ermm:


heh heh


:D
:cool:

[FourFiftyFour]

$20 is not much... by itself it is not much..but when you get membership fees, gas fee, entry fee, pit pass fee, hotels, food, anything else... That extra $20 (plus the $80 for the deposit) is just extra money that shouldnt be spent for someone just wanting to race one national. I wouldnt mind buying a transponder that could be used for ALL races..not just ONE. When I race a sprint car..we use transponders, but they use them at every kind of race everywhere. Its not really the money I am complaining about, its just something else extra to have to hassle with. And yes... the $20 ends up adding up to be a lot of money for a college student that works two jobs and practically lives at the school. :ermm:

Now my next question is..... would sprint car transponders work for this??? Are they all the same???

[bustedknuckle]

This Was One Reason We Quit MX The Promotors Are So Greedy... We Race Awrks Xc Seres They Use Transponders.They Work Great. But They Dont Charge Anything Extra.Its Just There Cost .Maybe The AMA Should Try To Pay For Some Of The Costs.To Put On A Race.Not Charging Racers.

[161xchonda]

The goal for the transponders is to use them at all races, not just the bigger ones but local events too. The transponders that you use on the sprint car are most likely a completely different setup. The transponders that are used for sprint cars are most likely made specifically for that type of racing. Each transponder is quite expensive so it is not like the AMA or the track could just give them out at random. They would lose way too much money.

[Ty's400]

I must say it is a good idea to use scored timing with the transponders, but it is just another added cost. An extra $100.00 must be taken out with the hundreds already spent to race and get there. Yeah you get $80.00 back, because it's just a deposit, but another $20.00 on top of the gate fee and race fee is rediculous I think. $20.00 adds up quick. Now if you could buy one and use it anywhere and for years down the road too that might not be as bad...anyone know if that is an option? I just think it should be tested first year with Pro and ProAm.

[161xchonda]

The plan is to use them at every track whether it is a big event or a local district race. They have been tested with the dirtbikes for years. The money does add up fast for a racer that only races one major event but the people who follow the series are really into laptimes and this type of scoring, for the most part the people who do these major events every weekend love the scoring.

[Ty's400]

Yeah I understand all that. I know its been around and basically all the dirtbikes series use them. I think it's a great idea. I've even used electronic scoring when I ran cross country in high school, really keeps from messing places up. Just stinks that it is another expense...haha I'm just curious if you buy one, whether or not you could use it for a few years or so cause then it would be worth it, I do more than one national, but won't be able to run the whole season this year (hopefully within next year or two).

[FourFiftyFour]

We run a non district series..its a quad only series and we are just independent..thats why i think it sucks that the one national I go to, I have to have all of this unnecessary extra stuff. We wont probably do transponders for our series ever (definitely not this year because our season starts this weekend and no word of transponders at all) so buying one would be stupid for me... and renting one is just another expense and $80 to be carrying around in my pocket (I hate carrying cash..lol I like debit cards much better)

[161xchonda]

Originally posted by Ty's400
Yeah I understand all that. I know its been around and basically all the dirtbikes series use them. I think it's a great idea. I've even used electronic scoring when I ran cross country in high school, really keeps from messing places up. Just stinks that it is another expense...haha I'm just curious if you buy one, whether or not you could use it for a few years or so cause then it would be worth it, I do more than one national, but won't be able to run the whole season this year (hopefully within next year or two).

These transponders are under warranty I think for 2 years. They should still be in use for years to come, because they seem to work really well. If I were you my decision would be based on if I think I would races enough races to save money on buying one or not. I believe you can use credit cards to pay for them too, not sure. I know that is what we did for the bikes last year.