1987 Suzuki 250R BAAAAAAAAAAAAD

[TXATVRIDER]

So i finally rode my buddies 4 wheeler he's trying to sell last night. For an 87 model i've never rode a wheeler in that good of shape for the make and model. By the way it chits and gets son. I couldn't believe how fast it is. Here's what he has done to it. It mostly has alot of the stock parts on it but just a few mods. I'm thinking about getting it he only wants 1500.

1987 suzuki 250r two stroke

- BORED 80 OVER
- NEW PLASTICS
- AFTERMARKET KEIHIN CARB. 37mm
- FMF HEAD PIPE
- NEW CLUTCHES
- TAG FATTY HANDLEBARS
- DG SILENCER
- PORT POLISHED HEAD
- WHITE BROTHERS KILL SWITCH
- WHEEL SPACERS
- NEW TIRES
- GRAIDEN CHROME NERF BARS
- DOUGLAS RIMS
- K&N AIR FILTER

I'll try to get a pic of it soon the only thing i have now is a reg. picture of it and i don't have a scanner.:eek2:

[rockman]

Ahh the infamous 2-stroke feeling. It only FEELS like its super fast. Try riding it with someone else riding your quad.

[TXATVRIDER]

Originally posted by rockman
Ahh the infamous 2-stroke feeling. It only FEELS like its super fast. Try riding it with someone else riding your quad.

Yeah i agree, i think it's just how the gears are so close together and how you have to shift alot faster than a 4 stroke ....plus the sound of a 2 stroke will get to ya too. But i have to admit it's a pretty nice bike.

the LTs ran pretty good, i rmemeber my buddy had a 87 Lt 250 too and its outran raptors (450s werent out yet) and hung with piped shees pretty well....dont undereastimate the LT...remember the honda 250r was the SLOWEST out of the 250s back then

[TheFontMaster]

One thing to take into consideration when you buy it is that .080 over and you are ether on your last bore, or getting close to the last one. So when you have to get it rebuilt you might end up having to get a re-sleeve, or a new cyinder. But 1500 dollars for it is still a good price.

Originally posted by rockman
Ahh the infamous 2-stroke feeling. It only FEELS like its super fast. Try riding it with someone else riding your quad.

Have you ever ridden a 2 stroke? Somehow, I doubt it.

My 250R was EVERY bit as fast as my 416 EX.

Prolly faster.

And how exactly do you "Try riding it with someone else riding your quad?"

Two up? Who does that?

:huh

he means ride the LT and have someone else ride his 450r

Originally posted by Honda86
he means ride the LT and have someone else ride his 450r

2 strokes are plenty fast. They don't do as well in technical terrain since you can't lug them, but they are plenty fast.

I'm thinking he may not know how to ride a 2 stroke, and how you need to keep it in the sweet spot of the "powerband."

And a bored over 0.080 250 will get up and go just fine.

[TXATVRIDER]

Originally posted by garandman
2 strokes are plenty fast. They don't do as well in technical terrain since you can't lug them, but they are plenty fast.

I'm thinking he may not know how to ride a 2 stroke, and how you need to keep it in the sweet spot of the "powerband."

And a bored over 0.080 250 will get up and go just fine.

Thank you thank you thank you, you think the same way i do. Every now and then i wanna play with something new and ride a 2 stroke with that powerband, it gives me goosebumps when i'm on it...i don't know that's just me

Originally posted by garandman
Have you ever ridden a 2 stroke? Somehow, I doubt it.

My 250R was EVERY bit as fast as my 416 EX.

Prolly faster.

And how exactly do you "Try riding it with someone else riding your quad?"

Two up? Who does that?

:huh

well duh your 250r was faster then a 400ex. No offence to the 400ex owners, but every 400 I rode felt pretty, uh, slow.

[Ruby Soho]

there not that slow :p

[400exrider707]

Ride a modded banshee or an LT500, if you think the lt250 was fast.... or even a decent powervalved 265 or something... One of the quickest quads I've ridden was a CT racing 310R. Those powervalve motors get up and go

Originally posted by nofearrider1
well duh your 250r was faster then a 400ex. No offence to the 400ex owners, but every 400 I rode felt pretty, uh, slow.

Read much?

I said my 250R was every bit as fast as my 416EX. With all the mods.

Like you see below in my sig.

:rolleyes:

[CorvetteZ06]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
Ride a modded banshee or an LT500, if you think the lt250 was fast.... or even a decent powervalved 265 or something... One of the quickest quads I've ridden was a CT racing 310R. Those powervalve motors get up and go

I love the CT310R powervalve motor, reliable and FAST. I wish I could one day ride a LT500 Quadzilla, that quad must be amazingly eye wattering fast!!

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by CorvetteZ06
I love the CT310R powervalve motor, reliable and FAST. I wish I could one day ride a LT500 Quadzilla, that quad must be amazingly eye wattering fast!!

With a pipe and filter on a the LT, with 22" all tracks we hit 60mph in the snow with it, while it was throwing roost a mile back! It was fast, but honestly I will agree a lot of two strokes like these feel faster than they really are. The LT was a powerhouse though. Just keep shifting and hold on, those tires never stop spinning. The CT310 was faster for sure, but it was an MX bike and it was based ona 250R frame so it was lighter and handled way better. The quadzilla was a tank.

[CDCHONDAS]

500 is the godfather of speed no matter what, I have been on some slow 250s and some fast ones the thing with the two stroke is they respond much better to cheaper mods ex. pipe and its hard to find one without atleast a pipe. what you would have to do to something like a 400ex to get the hp gain a 250r could off of say a pipe and misc. would be a good bit more. then consider what hp and torque curves they both are stock. now if you know where to spend your money on a 450r it gets real interesting. one of my good friends has a lt500 its got a full national package from years back. rarely gets ridden anymore but it never lost against anything it pulled up against. the combination of wide gear and alot of torque make it a beast, I've ridden it and alot of other stuff, theres no other quad that fast around here. its a heartbreaker.

[400eXr1d3rZ]

Originally posted by nofearrider1
well duh your 250r was faster then a 400ex. No offence to the 400ex owners, but every 400 I rode felt pretty, uh, slow.

Compared to your YFZ, yeah. The 400ex has so much potential. For a 400, it's bad ***.

Originally posted by 400eXr1d3rZ
Compared to your YFZ, yeah. The 400ex has so much potential. For a 400, it's bad ***.

Yup, in stock form the 400Ex is WAY undertuned.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by garandman
Yup, in stock form the 400Ex is WAY undertuned.

I still wouldn't consider it bad ***** for a 400... its mid 80s technology at best... Out of all the 400's its probably one of the most reliable, but is a slug...

Originally posted by 400exrider707
I still wouldn't consider it bad ***** for a 400... its mid 80s technology at best... Out of all the 400's its probably one of the most reliable, but is a slug...

As a stocker , no..... but add a 416 (or bigger) and a cam and jet it and pipe it, and it really starts to come alive.

And tech doesn't have to be new to be fast. The Chevy 350 motor is early sixties tech, but it can be a screamer.

id love to have a 400ex....and leave it stock...runny when people ride a decent 2 stroke they flip out...the zillas and built banshees and 310rs....if they would just put money into 2 stroke motors this sport could of been way better :rolleyes:

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by garandman
As a stocker , no..... but add a 416 (or bigger) and a cam and jet it and pipe it, and it really starts to come alive.

And tech doesn't have to be new to be fast. The Chevy 350 motor is early sixties tech, but it can be a screamer.


The chevy 350 Im not going to argue because Im not a car guy, and especially not a chevy guy...

The 400ex, I do agree that it will wake it up with those mods, but do those same mods to a z400, and then tell me the 400ex is still bad arse. The Z400 is a much more responsive motor IMO, dont get me wrong though Id still take the Honda first anyday.

Originally posted by 400exrider707
The chevy 350 Im not going to argue because Im not a car guy, and especially not a chevy guy...

The 400ex, I do agree that it will wake it up with those mods, but do those same mods to a z400, and then tell me the 400ex is still bad arse. The Z400 is a much more responsive motor IMO, dont get me wrong though Id still take the Honda first anyday.

Well, I can't speak to the Z400.

The point I was making was to the guy who said 2 strokes seem fast but arean't. A properly tuned 2 stroke can buirn it up. Then when you consider the lesser weight of the 2 stroke motor.....


Anyone who says they aren't fast must not have ridden one (properly tuned)

2 strokes are still the best motor design out besides rotary (size for size)

Originally posted by Honda86
2 strokes are still the best motor design out besides rotary (size for size)

There IS a reason the entire MX / SX race world was running 2 strokes prior to the meddling by the enviro weenies.

[blasterfreak99]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
I still wouldn't consider it bad ***** for a 400... its mid 80s technology at best... Out of all the 400's its probably one of the most reliable, but is a slug...

thats because all they did was take the xr 400 motor and put it into a remodeled 250r frame.

[700bRad]

Alls I gotta say is ROLL ON POWER.... Its addicting. 2 strokes are dieing fast with the 250f's and 450's getting popular. All my friends are selling there YZF and CRF 250's and buying 250f's. The torque and feel of a big ole' thumper is unmatched. Face it, 4 strokes are taking over power sports, you cant beat new technology.

but what exactly makes all the 450s and 250fs so "high tech" i never really knew that...i mean there has been 4 stroke motors that rev that high for years...why are the 450s so high tech? i am not trying to be an as$ either..i just would like someone to explain it to me...thanks

Originally posted by 700bRad
Alls I gotta say is ROLL ON POWER.... Its addicting. 2 strokes are dieing fast with the 250f's and 450's getting popular. All my friends are selling there YZF and CRF 250's and buying 250f's. The torque and feel of a big ole' thumper is unmatched. Face it, 4 strokes are taking over power sports, you cant beat new technology.

Four strokes are for lazy riderz.

:devil:

[400EXTRA]

I LOVE THE TWO STROKE POWERBAND:D

[CRich[814]]

Originally posted by 400EXTRA
I LOVE THE TWO STROKE POWERBAND:D

i prefer the medium sized light blue ones.

[coolex]

Originally posted by CRich[814]
i prefer the medium sized light blue ones.

ur a wimp thats y u liek that one:rolleyes:

[coolex]

o and u think u can get pics of this bike (thread starter) thanks

[MotoX3]

Originally posted by 700bRad
Face it, 4 strokes are taking over power sports, you cant beat new technology. I beg to differ, I do it quite often on my 9 year old technology.

[CorvetteZ06]

new technology?? so 2 strokes are old technology? Aprila makes 250cc two strokes that put out 100hp.

[CRich[814]]

Originally posted by coolex
ur a wimp thats y u liek that one:rolleyes:

so.

[DOHC]

Ah the old 2 stroke, what can i say i love talking about them i love them way more than the 4 strokes. The feeling when u hit the powerband is like no other feeling, i miss 2 strokes :(

[troutman561]

I prefer steak and potatoes personally....

[700bRad]

Originally posted by CorvetteZ06
new technology?? so 2 strokes are old technology? Aprila makes 250cc two strokes that put out 100hp.

In the dirtbike and atv world yes, two strokes have old technology. Not to put them down, dont get me wrong I love 2 strokes and 4 strokes. Yes we all know 2 strokes rip and they have a wicked powerband etc. etc. we could go on and on about that. But in my opinion theres just nothing like a big loud thumpin bruiser.

yeah i dont understand what is so "old" about 2 strokes....look in snowmoblies and go cart racing....2 strokes across the board there...ill admit the LT 250r and honda 250r are old motors but what is so old about service hondas CR250ex (whatever you want to call it)...or gas gas 300 powervalve that i heard hauls some major ars.....and what makes these 450s so "high tech" can someone please explain this?? they have had 5 valve motors for ever and it seems the biggest change is they keep on bumping up the compression in the 450s more and more all the time...so what makes them so "high tech"?:confused:

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by Honda86
yeah i dont understand what is so "old" about 2 strokes....look in snowmoblies and go cart racing....2 strokes across the board there...ill admit the LT 250r and honda 250r are old motors but what is so old about service hondas CR250ex (whatever you want to call it)...or gas gas 300 powervalve that i heard hauls some major ars.....and what makes these 450s so "high tech" can someone please explain this?? they have had 5 valve motors for ever and it seems the biggest change is they keep on bumping up the compression in the 450s more and more all the time...so what makes them so "high tech"?:confused:


snowmobiles are not even close to being across the board with two-strokes...haha

Polaris and yamaha wont even offer a two stroke soon. Yamaha doesn't now.

[TXATVRIDER]

Does anyone have Tmobile. I have a few pictures of that bike on my phone and that's it. Just don't know how to get em' on the computer or send them to my online account.

[FHKracingZ]

garageman you obviouslly dont know what your talking about. a 400ex is a turd , face it. You can make them some what fast but even the trickest ones usally wont beat a 450 with a pipe. And btw a chevy 350 the name is 50 years old but they when they made the LS1 in the 90's it was a totally different engine.

Originally posted by FHKracingZ
garageman you obviouslly dont know what your talking about. a 400ex is a turd , face it. You can make them some what fast but even the trickest ones usally wont beat a 450 with a pipe. And btw a chevy 350 the name is 50 years old but they when they made the LS1 in the 90's it was a totally different engine.

I didn't realize junior high schools had internet access in the middle of the school day.



:rolleyes:

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by garandman
I didn't realize junior high schools had internet access in the middle of the school day.



:rolleyes:

Hey dont forget your on thin ice already pal... dont be pickin on people now!:p

Originally posted by 400exrider707
Hey dont forget your on thin ice already pal... dont be pickin on people now!:p

Well when you start off by messin' with my login name, I automatically think "how juvenile."

Then when you display your ignorance saying a tricked out EX (oh,, say with a 440 stroker kit, HC piston and race cam) can't beat a stock 450 with a pipe....

:p

[trick250r]

Originally posted by 700bRad
Alls I gotta say is ROLL ON POWER.... Its addicting. 2 strokes are dieing fast with the 250f's and 450's getting popular. All my friends are selling there YZF and CRF 250's and buying 250f's. The torque and feel of a big ole' thumper is unmatched. Face it, 4 strokes are taking over power sports, you cant beat new technology.

if new technology is high tech you mean better design along with simplicity and reliability... that describes a two stroke right there. yes, old technology can beat new technology anyday.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by trick250r
yes, old technology can beat new technology anyday.

Thats a little vague.... I dont think that really applies to everything. How about an old technology four stroke like a warrior against new technology four stroke. Not even close! Sure an old technology two stroke is still fun, and sure if they put more R&D into them they would be awesome, but its not happening, so we should learn to love and accept new technology and changing times. At least if all major companies switch over to strictly four strokes, they'll be fast four-strokes.

[nowukno]

Originally posted by garandman
Then when you display your ignorance saying a tricked out EX (oh,, say with a 440 stroker kit, HC piston and race cam) can't beat a stock 450 with a pipe....
:p

The 450 would still win :macho

Originally posted by nowukno
The 450 would still win :macho

The piston and cam would MORE than make up for 10cc displacement.

Don't be a goofball, goofball.



:devil:

[CDCHONDAS]

Its always good to see people still trying to invent the wheel.

[JR3]

ive only ridden one 2 stroke and that was a blaster lol. i dunno i ddint really enjoy it i just love teh 4 stroke power im dying to rid e a banshee or a lt500. But all this 400ex talk. I had a 400ex 2 years ago and raced motorcross on it. i just put a kand n and a tc exhaust on it and it was slow. lol. on the holeshots id be like 10th then have to fight my way up. I just loved how reliable that thing was. I raced a whole season on it without a hicup sold it to somebody and they still keep in contact with me and say shes runnin strong and it was a 02 when i got it. heres a pic
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v367/250ex3/100_2464.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v367/250ex3/102_4388.jpg

sad when people liek him ^^ havnt rode a banshee or 250r...no offence its just how sad the market is....you cant beat the old 2 strokes and about putting up a warrior agenst a 450, the warrior was never built to be a high performance ATV like the 450... and can someone explain what is so high tech about the 450?? to me its just another 5 valve 4 stroke motor just with higher compression and they dont last as long...awsome investment :rolleyes: ...i will NEVER buy a new quad unless they made a light weight, high HP 250 2 stroke motor (or higher)with a PV...untill then i will only buy used, or nothing at all

Originally posted by Honda86
sad when people liek him ^^ havnt rode a banshee or 250r...no offence its just how sad the market is....you cant beat the old 2 strokes ...i will NEVER buy a new quad unless they made a light weight, high HP 250 2 stroke motor (or higher)with a PV...untill then i will only buy used, or nothing at all

Yup.

People unimpressed with the 250R have prolly never ridden one.

I keep talking about my old R.... I may end up buying another one.

Then...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid14/paa5a7617c76b5c30a4875571cf5ef712/fde07173.jpg


Now....

http://www.hunt101.com/img/470567.jpg

oh and to 400exrider...snowmoblies are basically 2 strokes across the board...90% of them are 2 stroke and about 95% on the trails are pingers too...in racing damn near EVERYONE is riding a 2 stroke because they dont allow the double CC rule...u dont see 1100 4 stroke sleds running with a 550 do u?? go cart racing is all 2 stroke too...and i would NEVEr want a RX1 or the new 1100 4 stroke sleds....after is een what a pain they were up north...4 strokes are horrible for high performance...and as far as wave runners go the only way they could get a few people to switch to four stroke is thay had to hook up turbo chargers to them...size for size 4 strokes cannot compete...period

funny part is the 250r motor is old school...please update the frame and put a CR 250 PV motor in it...PLEASE!!

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by Honda86
sad when people liek him ^^ havnt rode a banshee or 250r...no offence its just how sad the market is....you cant beat the old 2 strokes and about putting up a warrior agenst a 450, the warrior was never built to be a high performance ATV like the 450... and can someone explain what is so high tech about the 450?? to me its just another 5 valve 4 stroke motor just with higher compression and they dont last as long...awsome investment :rolleyes: ...i will NEVER buy a new quad unless they made a light weight, high HP 250 2 stroke motor (or higher)with a PV...untill then i will only buy used, or nothing at all


Well the Honda 450 isn't 5 valves at all. My point was that a warrior is mid seventies technology at best... 2 valve motor. pushrod design with a one piece head. I know a 450 would win but that wasn't my point. Your going to be stuck riding old pingers that are falling apart if you never buy something new. The only two strokes I see racing anymore are in C class and they rarely finish near the top. They are a great inexpensive way to get into racing, and with the right rider could do very well though. I will buy another banshee again someday jsut for that thrill of hitting the powerband and that sound of dual pipes on a two stroke

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by Honda86
oh and to 400exrider...snowmoblies are basically 2 strokes across the board...90% of them are 2 stroke and about 95% on the trails are pingers too...in racing damn near EVERYONE is riding a 2 stroke because they dont allow the double CC rule...u dont see 1100 4 stroke sleds running with a 550 do u?? go cart racing is all 2 stroke too...and i would NEVEr want a RX1 or the new 1100 4 stroke sleds....after is een what a pain they were up north...4 strokes are horrible for high performance...and as far as wave runners go the only way they could get a few people to switch to four stroke is thay had to hook up turbo chargers to them...size for size 4 strokes cannot compete...period


Snowmobiles are basically 2 stroke across the board? have you been to a dealership? Yamaha does not offer a two stroke sled anymore. Polaris I believe is done this year or next. Ski doo seems to be the only one doing anything with two strokes. I know at the lakes and rides everyone still has two strokes, but how long have they been out vs. four strokes. You need to go ride one before you talk crap about them. I didn't think they would be good at all either, but I rode a yamaha nitro and was very impressed. very comfortable to ride, nice linear power. Good overall sled ... motorwise


Yes I know about two strokes in the racing department. Four stroke sleds are retarded heavy. I understand that. But once all two strokes are phased out what do you think they will start racing? I can see four strokes in the future. Hopefully ski-doo uses some of that technology with clean burn two smokes to keep them alive though.

[400exrider707]

JR3 you dont know what your missing buddy! Riding a blaster would be like riding a trx90 and saying I would like to try a 450 someday...hahah Try a banshee!!!

Also the 250R and the banshee are not all that impressive in STOCK form, put anything on them and they get really fast really quickly!! My old banshee would eat my cammed 450 alive in a straight line... mx forget about it though, and it was more setup than my 450 is.

ski doo is the only one doing anyhtign with 2 strokes :confused: what about the F8 from acrict cat?? 145 hp stock...skidoo made them burn very cleana dn the revs are very nice sleds... have a 2004 carb F7 so i been to the dealer...everyone rides 2 strokes where im from and size of size they dominate like no other. I watched the sled drags the other week on tv and every single 600, 700, 800 and 1000 were 2 strokes...thats 2 stroke across the board...and at the sled drags i was at in person they have a seperate 4 stroke class witch all the times are slower because they cant compete (unless like in the wave runner world, they have turbos or something)...2 strokes are alive and well only in america do we let tree huggers control us...and yes i wont go out and blow 7K on a new 450 when i can get a completely fresh aftermarket frame PV big bore motor with LT shocked 250r for the same price, if not less...i dont understand 4 stroke guys

Originally posted by Honda86
...i dont understand 4 stroke guys

They just don't know any better..... :)


Four strokes do pull better thru technical terrain... you can be lazy mentally and still get thru a technical section.

On the 2 stroke, you gotta be paying attention, and have better anticipation.

Well, that and they bought Bubbas lame excuse of not being able to run with Ricky in MX cuz Ricky had the four stroke and Bubba was on a 2 stroke.





:devil:

[DOHC]

Originally posted by FHKracingZ
garageman you obviouslly dont know what your talking about. a 400ex is a turd , face it. You can make them some what fast but even the trickest ones usally wont beat a 450 with a pipe. And btw a chevy 350 the name is 50 years old but they when they made the LS1 in the 90's it was a totally different engine.
:rolleyes:

and its funyn how yamaha pushes and pushes and pushes some more of that new phazer 4 stroke down everyones throat....it seems ever advertisment i see from yamaha is of that new phazer...man is that thing nasty looking...and how much horsepower do those make?:confused: 100? 120?

nope i gave the phazer too much credit...80 hp in stock form..impressive :rolleyes: my old 1994 580 makes more then that and i got it for 900 dollars...

now. i want all these 4 storke guys to tell me what is so "high tech" about these new 450 motors? they have had pancake pistons out forever, 5 valve motors are nothing new and EFI is nothing new...what is so high tech? i dont understand it...i honestly dont understand what si high tech...someone please explain for the 3rd time :confused:

there isnt nothing new in the world of motors...its just before we didnt have EFI in a dirt bike, now we do...whoopdy freaking do...then they brag it up like its some huge breakthrough...someone please clear this up for me...

and as for the "old "outdated motors...this is for all you guys that know your stuff.....put a old Yamaha GP 643 (that is about 30-35 years old)snowmoblie up agenst a brand new yamaha phazer that is "oh so great" and let me know what wins in a drag....if you dont know what a GP 643 is, ask your grandpa or the old man around they block......then you all will realize how far motors have come in the last 30 years in that sport....not very far


honestly is a built 250r from back in the 80s much slower then a 450 now?? nope...look at the banshee, its from the 80s and still is the quad to beat in the sand, when will people realize that nothing has changed


and for all you real motor heads out there, rotary motors are better then a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke in every way shape and form...they are about 100 years old....


now somoene please tell em what is so great about the new 450 and 250f motors..PLEASE!

[700bRad]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
Thats a little vague.... I dont think that really applies to everything. How about an old technology four stroke like a warrior against new technology four stroke. Not even close! Sure an old technology two stroke is still fun, and sure if they put more R&D into them they would be awesome, but its not happening, so we should learn to love and accept new technology and changing times. At least if all major companies switch over to strictly four strokes, they'll be fast four-strokes.

Wow I couldnt of said it any better myself... And I totally agree.

[CDCHONDAS]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
Well the Honda 450 isn't 5 valves at all. My point was that a warrior is mid seventies technology at best... 2 valve motor. pushrod design with a one piece head. I know a 450 would win but that wasn't my point. Your going to be stuck riding old pingers that are falling apart if you never buy something new. The only two strokes I see racing anymore are in C class and they rarely finish near the top. They are a great inexpensive way to get into racing, and with the right rider could do very well though. I will buy another banshee again someday jsut for that thrill of hitting the powerband and that sound of dual pipes on a two stroke

Hate to burst your bubble but a warrior is not pushrod and is overhead cam, now a honda rancher or foreman is pushrod, so is a small block chevy.

[ZSNOW]

one ? how did we go from 2 stroke 4 stroke quads to chevy 350 to snowmobiles...the sled thing...you gotta give yamaha some credit for sticking there neck out there with the 4 strokes...them things do wheelies...as for 2 stroke sleds...they out perform every 4 stroke sled because there hasn't been anytime to work out the bugs...chevy 350s are older then me...yet they still are the massive#1 drag motor...as for 2 stroke vs 4 stroke quads and dirt bikes...people hae there own opinions...this could go on for ever but u'll never get everyone to like 1 thing!
but in my opinion i like 4 strokes but thats because i can't ride a 2 stroke and never really had the chance...all i know is i love the look of 250r's and lt's...but i really love yfz's too...so it comes down to opinion its like ford vs chevy or a toyota vs a jeep comes down to opinion

but u don't have to listen to me JMO
well i am goin to bed
Zack

will someone explain what makes these 450 so "high tech"? they are nothing but 4 valve and 5 valve motors with pancake pistons and some have EFI and they just have the compression extramly high witch means they will not last as long as a typical 4 stroke...boy i cant wait to blow my 7 grand for a bone stock one :rolleyes:

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by CDCHONDAS
Hate to burst your bubble but a warrior is not pushrod and is overhead cam, now a honda rancher or foreman is pushrod, so is a small block chevy.

Yes your right I dont know what I was thinking. They are one piece head though which is a PITA to change cams on, well harder than a two piece head anyways.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by Honda86
will someone explain what makes these 450 so "high tech"? they are nothing but 4 valve and 5 valve motors with pancake pistons and some have EFI and they just have the compression extramly high witch means they will not last as long as a typical 4 stroke...boy i cant wait to blow my 7 grand for a bone stock one :rolleyes:

You ever seen Hondas race bike that was an 32 valve 4 cylinder 4 stroke... yep 8 valves per cylinder. Pretty crazy.

Honda86 I agree that two stroke snowmobiles are still dominate if you would read anything I put down. I know this. I agree. They are better!!! All I said was that I rode a new nitro and I was impressed. Ski doo is the only one doing anything to IMPROVE two strokes, sorry for not making that clear. Arctic cat has done nothing to make theirs burn cleaner except by putting efi on them. I wouldn't buy a new arctic cat anyways because they are but ugly, and I've been an arctic cat guy since I got my first kitty kat at 5 years old.

Honestly I would say a built 250R is slower than a built 450. Maybe not in a straight line, but definitely on the track. JMO, so no need to argue it. I've ridden both. Even if the 250R is faster, its still harder to race and or handle on the track. A 450 is much more user friendly IMO.

Also rotary motors are very cool. Have you read anything about the RX-8, it only eats about a quart to two quarts of oil between a 3000mile oil change!!! Might as well be a two stroke! haha!

Also as far as the "new technology" you'd have to talk to an engine builder, or at least someone who knows more than I do, but you cant tell me that todays 450 engines are completely composed of old technology. Also I wouldn't limit to just the engine on new quads. Everything has advanced technologically, the frames, the motors, suspension.

Also what exactly is a pancake piston? I know I've heard the term, but I really dont know what it means.

Lets not bash each other and keep it to an opinionated discussion so the thread doesn't get closed!

:blah:

[FHKracingZ]

As a freshman in college i do have internet during the day. And i was never trying to offend your name i didnt relize it was garandman not garageman. If you think your 400 with a engine kit with cams and piston will take a stock 450r with a pipe your crazy. It would be close but untill you have seen the insides of both heads dont talk. A 450r intake tract on the head is 2 times as big as that of a 400ex. a 400ex is a mild trail motor, face it. They can be made fast but so can anything.

Originally posted by FHKracingZ
If you think your 400 with a engine kit with cams and piston will take a stock 450r with a pipe your crazy. It would be close but .... blah blah blah

You contradict yourself.

First you say I'm crazy to think a bored over, high compression piston race cammed EX could take a stock 450R with just a pipe.

Then you say it would be close.

So....am I crazy (as in not even close? ) or would it be close??





:rolleyes:

Quit while yer only way behind.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by garandman
You contradict yourself.

First you say I'm crazy to think a bored over, high compression piston race cammed EX could take a stock 450R with just a pipe.

Then you say it would be close.

So....am I crazy (as in not even close? ) or would it be close??





:rolleyes:

Quit while yer only way behind.

A piped 450 and a cammed 440ex with the works are almost dead even:ermm:

I know this because I tried this out. This was my deciding factor on whether or not to max out my EX or buy the R. I figure well all an R rider has to do is put a $125 cam in and hes going to destroy me... Im glad I went with the R

duh the 8 valve motor is advance but what production bike has that gone into??...2 strokes still dominate, i just got back from a trip up north and out of the hundrds of sled i saw, i woulod say i saw about 15 or 20 four strokes and most were just for trail use (no high speeds or anything)....a pancake piston is what is in the new 450s, they are very thin so they can get more RPMs out of the 4 stroke motor, they are lighter and do not last as long.... yeah i agree i just want to know what is so "high tech" about these 450 motors...i honestly dont know?

as far as advancement, their isnt much in motors, the biggest advancement is in suspension (over the last 20 years)

i get my oil changed every 3000 miles anyways...and i think rotary motors are great, i dont know a whole lot about them (i dont think many people do) but i think they only have 4 or so moving parts and like 15 parts total and still make more HP per size then a 2 stroke :eek:


id love to have a rotary 250r :D

[ThumPIN_450R]

Since we're bringing sleds into this have you ever seen the Thunderstruck vids and looked at what's climbing the nastiest chutes? Turboed 450 HP yamaha apex's I hate them yes but it is indeed true. Maybe pick up mountain mod mania and watch cody james on his turboed yammy destroy any 2 stroke that comes close too it. I ride an M7 cat but after seeing one of those bad boys climb in person I find them hard to beat but the 35-40k price tag aint easy to deal with either to get one to do that. For MX the thumper is what to be on as long as the displacement rules stay where they are and yes people I have rode and raced on 250R's and an LT250 that were well built so I know what I'm talking about. There is no replacement for displacement.

yeah onc eu get into the turbos it gets so crazy expensive i dont even consider them cuz i will never dump 30-40 thousand dollars into a sled..my F7 was 5 grand and i feel sick paying that...they just want to give the racing to 4 strokes, its so obvious with the rule changes, i was looking in a snowX magazine and now they feel that a 1050cc 4 cylender 4 stroke should be able to run with a 600 twin? :confused: :rolleyes:

The 4 stroke couldnt take over size for size so they just give them more advantage with the rule changes...stupid IMO

so to put that into comparison, in snowcross if someone was to run a thundercat or mach Z 1000...that means a 4 stroke rider should get almsot 2000cc...come on now

[CDCHONDAS]

ok but in dirt type racing a 125 two stroke equals a 250 four stroke and a 250 two stroke equals a 450 four stroke, pretty much same idea as the sleds

dont make sence to me, sure the 4 stroke fires ever other time the piston comes up but there is so many other variables going on in there...