Outlaw 525 factory jetting issue?

[ScramblerXLE]

hey guys,
I was just told on another site that someone had heard that in order to make EPA standards, the 525 'Law was jetted too lean from the factory. If this is true, the 5 degree wether up here in MI might really make it lean next weekend when i break it in (if it comes...it should,) anyway, i've been told that guys are already rejetting theirs to compensate. Could someone tell me if they have experienced this? maybe check your plugs and tell me if they're the nice brown color that i'd expect a factory machine should be? If not, perhaps a larger main is in order. Thanks!

EDIT: title of thread changed due to uneducated people coming here and referring to rejetting as "already having to fix the Outlaw." Title changed to reflect the necessary nature of rejetting a machine which any concerned owner SHOULD do in the conditions those of us in the north are currently experiencing.

[realbadlarry]

I would call a ktm shop, or go on KTMtalk.com. My 525 (motorcycle) was rejetted at the shop before I picked it up. They are real lean from the factory. I would imagine that the 2 wheeler parts should fit on that motor. The most popular is the JD jetting kit, an oring around the accelerator pump lever, the honda ac pump diaphram, and the HT racing vane velocity stack. I can't wait, I know my 525 is way more than I need.

[Evasiveone]

Pretty much all bikes/quads will come out more towards the lean side for EPA purposes.

The Outlaw 525 comes stock with a 148 jet. Anything below 40 degrees the book says to go to a 158 jet. Those of us that have commented that it is lean have been riding in single digits and teen weather. Like any carbed quad. You should expect to rejet when the weather gets this cold.

[dzklrz]

I live in central WI and the temps have been -0 to maybe 10 degrees above in the afternoon. I can tell you that stock jetting is way to lean. My plug was white. I ordered the JD jet kit and installed the 172 main along with the blue needle and also the thick o-ring.

The plug is now the color that I want it. I thought the 525 was a handful stock, it is an animal with this jetting kit. The best money I have spent. It feels like 3rd gear is 2nd and so on, the increase is unbelievable.

A good place for KTM info is KTMtalk.com

[Evasiveone]

I ordered the JD kit today. Does the jet kit also come with the thicker o-ring for that mod or did you pick it up elsewhere?

[groundstrike]

my kit came with 2 o-rings a thin and a thick one...

[oldmn]

hi guys can you give some more info on this jd jet kit? thanks bill

[dzklrz]

I picked mine up at ktmcyclehutt.com #JDK002 part number. You get two needles, two o-rings and the following main jets 162-168-170-172 and also, some of the best instructions I ever seen. Money well spent!! You won't be dissappointed with this.

[eerhard09]

I just ordered my JD kit as well. I probably will not go with the 172, probably the 170, since we have warmed up into the 20's here in Ohio.... Couple questions for you:

What elevation are you at up there in Wisconsin?
What clip are you putting the needle on?
How many down from the top (blue needle right?)?

[dzklrz]

I believe we are at 1,200-1,600 around here. On the blue needle I am 3 down from the top, that is what he recomended. You may want to go to JD's website and e-mail him. A great guy to deal with and always fast answering his e-mail's

[eerhard09]

dzklrz, thanks! I am actually right around 1200ft myself here in OH so I will just start there. Were you running with your lid off too or still closed up?

working on it already! :rolleyes: /you got the point./as far as benefit yes no hole in you piston is the benefit.

[eerhard09]

Originally posted by lappy
working on it already! :rolleyes:

And your point?

[ScramblerXLE]

seriously, never heard of a carbed quad that couldn't benefit from a rejet at low temps... Thanks for the info guys.

[eerhard09]

Originally posted by lappy
working on it already! :rolleyes: /you got the point./as far as benefit yes no hole in you piston is the benefit.

Oh, oh, wait, I got your point.... Wait...nope, I lost it....

It's not like they are broke or are having problems, it is called smart! Sorry we do not have FI like you do. But, $4 for a new main jet or $250 for a fuel controller to do real adjustments for your quad....hmmm, I will take $4 thanks!:rolleyes:

[Evasiveone]

Here are some suggested starting points JD sent me.

Try running the following-
Stock pilot jet
1 3/4 turns out on fuel screw
Red marked needle in the #5 from top clip position
#170 main jet with airbox opened up
(#162 main jet with standard airbox)

The Blue marked needle is a close alternative, and I would use clip position #3 from top as a starting point.

Oh calm down 700yellowraptor, damn meant Lappy. Still getting all your name changes confused. Just because your famous quotes of "best trail bike ever made so eat it" followed by the pic of your yellow raptor in every Polaris post has no merits now doesn't mean you have to get mad and be a hater.

[eerhard09]

Also, lapdog, please go back to your Raptor forums and stop posting useless CRAP in the outlaw threads. There is no use for you here! I did notice your one post about how this site has become "so pro-polaris".... Maybe there is a reason eveything is so pro-polaris; IT'S BECAUSE YOU SPEND ALL OF YOUR TIME IN THE POLARIS THREADS! If you had something productive to say, it would not be so bad, but to this point you have been useless and disruptive to the Outlaw threads! You must be really worried about the 525 if you spend so much time in here trashing it.... I know I don't spend any time in the Raptor forums because I don't give a crap about it or if it is faster that my 525... Please go away and stop wasting our time!

Originally posted by eerhard09
Oh, oh, wait, I got your point.... Wait...nope, I lost it....

It's not like they are broke or are having problems, it is called smart! Sorry we do not have FI like you do. But, $4 for a new main jet or $250 for a fuel controller to do real adjustments for your quad....hmmm, I will take $4 thanks!:rolleyes: yes buy a quad and make sure i get jets b4 i leave b/c i want to rejet b4 i ride, hey sounds great.---you guys must love working on them more than riding them.hi PaleRider i mean Evasiveone

[ScramblerXLE]

Thanks for the info guys, i've got the JD jet kit on order. I here that you can just swap the needle when the summer tems come around, that's cool! how bad is the carb to get to? i haven't even seen the 525 'Law in person yet, and don't know how much of a pain it will be to rejet?

[eerhard09]

The carb is wide open because the motor is shorter and sits lower in the frame. You should not even have to take the plastics off to get it off. I have not tried it yet though, that is just from looking at it.

Again lapdog, go back to the Raptor forums; you are usless to our threads since you have nothing EDUCATED to say about a quad you know NOTHING about!

[NC_700R]

so you have to rejet everytime the season changes. i know my 700 was lean from the factory but it still ran like a champ when i rode in 30 degree wheather. My 660 has the same jets in it from the summer before last and it runs great in any wheather. i'd be a little pissed if i had to rejet a fresh-out-the crate quad just to ride it after paying six grand to buy it. :eek: :D

[bwamos]

For optimal performance... yes you'll have to rejet ANY quad when humidity/temperature changes a significant amount.

There's a LOT more O2 in the air when it's 2 deg F w/ 0% humidity, than at 95 deg F @ 35% humidity.

You don't "have to" but you should, and you should even be adjusting the mapping on the EFI models. You aren't running a self-adjusting EFI Controller w/ an sensor in the exhaust.

If you're not running lean at 5 degrees.. you were running WAY too rich at 95 degrees.

[eerhard09]

Originally posted by bwamos
For optimal performance... yes you'll have to rejet ANY quad when humidity/temperature changes a significant amount.

There's a LOT more O2 in the air when it's 2 deg F w/ 0% humidity, than at 95 deg F @ 35% humidity.

You don't "have to" but you should, and you should even be adjusting the mapping on the EFI models. You aren't running a self-adjusting EFI Controller w/ an sensor in the exhaust.

If you're not running lean at 5 degrees.. you were running WAY too rich at 95 degrees.

Great post bwamos! It is definitely your choice to rejet or not but it is much better for your engine if you do. Pretty sure I saw somewhere that for every 20 degree drop, it constitutes a jet change, larger or smaller depending on temps rising or falling. It is the same principle as riding at seal level and at 5000ft in the mountains. The higher you go, the less O2 in the air, which means you should go to a smaller jet size, and vise versa.

If you are seeing a power gain when it gets cold, it means one of two things. One, you are too rich at warm temps and it is finally running correctly, or two, you begin to run dangerously lean! You may see more power at that lean condition because you are getting a hotter burn in the cylinder but you are also on the verge of engine damage!

The quads are probably set for summer conditions from the factory which then creates a very lean condition in single digit temps. Like bwamos stated, I doubt that your non-self adjusting EFI even has the ability to make the necessary changes to be spot on in that cold of temperature. It may adjust enough to keep it from being damaging to the motor but you are losing some performance by not being spot on. This is not a rip on any quad, EFI or carbed, just simple chemistry principles applied to engine mechanics.

[NC_700R]

ohhhhhhhh, ok for optimium performance you have to rejet. never knew that :rolleyes: my raptors run fine year-round with the same jets/fuel map. if there is a difference in performance, my *** or my buddys on their 450's don't think so. I'd rather take a couple minutes loading a map into my $250 programmer one time and ride year round then take however long it takes to change jets twice a year. ;) you polaris guys are so defensive over your quads. :D :cool: YFI>>>>CARB

[Scotty7304]

It only takes a few minutes to change jets out after you learn how to do it. The hard part is guessing the right jet.

[eerhard09]

You better believe that I would rather punch some numbers into a box as well, but right now, sport quads are a little limited on that feature....:D It was never about being defensive, lapdog only comes here to bash with nothing positive to contribute or learn. I would not care if I was on a Dinli 50 or a Can-Am Renegade, I don't like bashing for any reason on any quad! Not defensive, just not putting up with stupid people!

[dzklrz]

I think that the boy is scared, why else would you bash something so much? As far as working on it more than riding, it does'nt matter to me, I love both.

If the 525 is suppose to out accelerate the 700r stock, I can't imagine what it will do to it with the JD kit. It is the most drastic change for the money you can spend. I would have no problem spending 200.00 for this kit (maybe more) after knowing what a difference it is from stock!

I have no problems with Yamahas, but some of you crack me up with the things you type.

[CHADHIX]

Here is the main difference between the two engines....

525 built for performance, speed, and racing....

700 built for farting around on the trails and giving the feeling of having a big cc engine with lack luster performance.

J/k :D

[dzklrz]

LOL!!

The Yamaha guys should be happy the 525 came out. If Yamaha wants the market back for the fastest atv they will step it up next year. Then we will be the ones making stupid comments like a few of them!

I could not be happier with the 525 so far. I can't wait to get it on the trails, so far it has just been 89 miles of riding on the lake

[CHADHIX]

I like the Raptor 700. I do however feel Yamaha could do much more with it though. There is no reason in the world that a machine with that kind of cc shouldnt absolutely rip! I think Yamaha may have just received their wake up call to make this thing act like it has a big bore engine and not let a little old 510cc machine whip on it! ;) Next year may be interesting.

[ScramblerXLE]

*agrees* I love the raptor for the torque and the reliability. Unfortunatly, this outlaw should prove that the same thing can be accomplished with FAR less CC's, which means that Yamaha has a lot of potential left in that motor that they aren't giving their riders yet, which is what i've always thought about them. From the beginning, everyone knows that the 660R was very corked up, so is the 700, just not as bad. Oh well, in the spirit of competition i hope they fire back next year. keeps the market interesting :D!

[NC_700R]

you polaris boys are truely funny fella's. can somebody please post a video of a 525 vs 700? you all talk about how yamaha doesn't deliver the goods with the 700 but it spanks all 450's stock to stock with anywhere from 30-40lbs to carry. so lets get a video of a stock 525 vs 700 and a piped version of the two. polaris has a video on there website comparing the 700,trx and yfz over rocks and ****. where is the video of them comparing straight-line performance versus the four. bettery yet, they claim the 525 if the fastest production quad stock, where the **** is the proof besides some ***** chart? ;) :D

[GE4x4]

NC, no one is dissing the Raptor. It does have great power. It beating 450 is more depending on the rider. I've seen 450 beat the 700. But I think what everyone is saying, with over 200 cc bigger, there should be no comparison to anything. The 700 should walk over anything and everything in stock form. It does well, but doesn't walk away. It takes over $700 in mods to start and do that. Just look at the Can-Am 800. It will kill anything less then a 700 by a huge margin. The 700R just doesn't do that in stock form. If I'm going to spend over $7000 for a quad, I don't want to have to spend another $1000 to wake it up and perform like the other $7000 quads in stock form.

[eerhard09]

Why are the Raptor guys coming into OUR threads to bash our quads? Did someone go over there and drop a load in their wheaties or are they just afraid that their quads are not the king of the hill anymore? It is ridiculous that they have to come here and get all defensive. We are not over there talking crap to them. Sounds like there are a bunch of guy that are afraid! Sounds like a bunch of third graders!

[groundstrike]

Just thought I'd mention, I needed some jets that didn't come in my JD jetting kit and I emailed him and he sent them to me, free of charge, great guy!

Edit: I had bought a different kit than the #002 kit ( the #003) that you guys are buying, I bought his jetting kit way early on, just after I bought my 525, and he had suggested two kits, I bought the one with bigger jets, which ended up a little big (175,180,182,185) . He sent me a 165 and a 170 main.

[ScramblerXLE]

what jets did you need? i'd like to know more b/c mine will probably show up someday, and i may need these jets also. thanks!

[tallman56]

The 07 raptors are fuel injected, "no jets" air fuel is controlled by a computer. I will see how my 525 does against my nephew's 700 in the sand next month and will let you know.

525, EHS Racing airbox lid
Jets R Us

[tldPREDATORboy]

Originally posted by NC_700R
ohhhhhhhh, ok for optimium performance you have to rejet. never knew that :rolleyes: my raptors run fine year-round with the same jets/fuel map. if there is a difference in performance, my *** or my buddys on their 450's don't think so. I'd rather take a couple minutes loading a map into my $250 programmer one time and ride year round then take however long it takes to change jets twice a year. ;) you polaris guys are so defensive over your quads. :D :cool: YFI>>>>CARB

maybe were just sick of u raptor guys thinking u now it all and bashing our quads.

[groundstrike]

I had bought a different kit than the #002 kit ( the #003) that you guys are buying, I bought his jetting kit way early on, just after I bought my 525, and he had suggested two kits, I bought the one with bigger jets, which ended up a little big (175,180,182,185) . He sent me a 165 and a 170 main.

[Nystie]

I had my 525 jetted at the KTM Dealer in town. Went to a 48 pilot and a 150 main, also added a boyesen pump cover. The quad really rips now. It has really come alive.

[roczilla]

muzzy pipe ,air box lid still on,put a 170 main to increase top end performance and it did! pulls strong through out the power band in every gear,muzzy made a huge increase in bottom/mid range
performance...

[eerhard09]

Originally posted by Nystie
I had my 525 jetted at the KTM Dealer in town. Went to a 48 pilot and a 150 main, also added a boyesen pump cover. The quad really rips now. It has really come alive.

Hey Nystie, how did they do the jetting, on a Dyno or by the seat of the pants and plug chops?

[vendetta]

Hey guys, just bought the new outlaw and it absolutely rips in this 30 degree weather out here in Pa... i havent rejetted it yet but it runs great! Where do i buy this jet kit and which kit is it? i checked jdjetting.com but i wasnt sure which one has the right jets. are there any pipes, or other mods available at this time? Is there anythig to be gained by removing the spark arrestor and intake box lid? Thanks for your help!

[ScramblerXLE]

call JD Jetting @ (253)939-7114. They can set you up right.

The EHS Airbox lid should be available by wednesday for it (i'll post if it is). It is essentially just the factory airbox lid with the snorkel area cut off and a huge prefilter bolted in place. voila, the protection of a closed box with the flow of an open box.

Also, muzzy's has a system out, as does HMF. I am waiting on the FMF system however as that is the system that KTM uses on their factory teams. ETA is between 1&2 months, but no "official" release date yet. Again, expect a post the day i find out otherwise.

My current set up with the JD Jet kit is:
Red needle, 4th clip
170 main jet
stock pilot
Fuel screw 1-3/4 turns out
O-ring mod // YES IT WORKS! YES THE GAIN IS SUBSTANCIAL!

Good luck :) let me know if i can be more help!

[vendetta]

thankyou for your help! i also called ctracing yesturday and they told me that they would have their pipe on the dyno on friday april 20th for our new 525s. hopefully we will see some exciting results! ill post the numbers when he calls me on friday! Thanks again

[somewon]

hey guys I just got back from the dunes and my 525 kept runnig hot and lean. I was just curious if anyone had any jetting suggestions. I'm at 1000 ft up 87.5 (85 stock) pilot 152 (148 stock) main needle in stock position. stock air filter and pipe.

[eerhard09]

Buy yourself a JD Jet kit and try the recommendations in the kit. They will get you very close and will be a nice gain in power over the stock setup. It is worth every penny that the jet kit costs!

[Evasiveone]

As lean as these 525's are at a 148 stock jet I do not think a 152 is nearly enough of a jump. If you look two post above yours I am running almost the exact same as Walt, except I am on the 5th position down on the red needle. I am running with no lid on my box, but those that have been running with the lid are around a 162-165 range on the main jet.

The one time I ran with the air temperature in the 80's I was a little rich, not bad though. I am going to wait till I get an exhaust on it before I mess with the jetting again though because it runs awesome with the temps in the 50 to 70 degree range.

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by somewon
hey guys I just got back from the dunes and my 525 kept runnig hot and lean. I was just curious if anyone had any jetting suggestions. I'm at 1000 ft up 87.5 (85 stock) pilot 152 (148 stock) main needle in stock position. stock air filter and pipe.


I don't know what temp it was, but even the service manual for temps below 40 , they recomend a 158mj which is quite abit bigger then stock. So I would jump it up a bit more, or like the others said, get the JD and they will tell you what's best.

[somewon]

thanks everyone! I think I'm going to jet up to a 160 until my JD kit arrives.

[OUTLAW525YUP]

I just checked my plug this weekend and it is also white. I am at a altitude of approx 3000 ft, I was wondering if you guys cand post a list of your used jets along with mods and altitude. thanks.