More video of the 525 doing a smack down on 450's

[GE4x4]

Enjoy525 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwMQEFm0yx4)

[micah78]

Love to see the 525 layin the smack down!!:cool:

[Evasiveone]

Now thats what I am talking about!

I knew it felt fast :D

Thanks for the post GE

[PolarisRider06]

kinda interesting how none of the bashers have anything to say now.... :)

[firefighterjosh]

lol not to be a "Basher" but they are fast but they don't handle worth a poo. IMO

[KB Motorsports]

I think with good suspension the outlaw has a lot of potential on and off the track. I am willing to trade straight even (MXyfz LT elka elites w/jb a-arms ) with one that just has the basic mods (pipe, filter, exhaust, nerf bars)

Anyone who bought a 525 and doesn't like it send me a PM:D

[firefighterjosh]

I was just joking around I have no clue, but I don't think it would handle good in motor cross but for XC it might do great. I know I love my KQ 700 IRS over my 400exs strait axle

[MXin700R]

Not a basher but I would like to get up with one and skin em back one good time;) :
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h15/Bo_White/th_100_0207.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/albums/h15/Bo_White/?action=view&current=100_0207.flv)

the sad thing is is that polaris has to go to something that is 70ccs or so more to beat the competition in a straight line drag...

i couldn't tell, but did the 450's have sand tires?

[ScramblerXLE]

i cannot let that comment go, i'm sorry.

What's truly sad is that it takes the Raptor 700, another 175.6ccs (686 - 510.4) to NOT out-run it. Thanks for playing, but take your uneducated bashing somewhere else.

P.S. To raptor owners, i like the things, please don't take offense to that it was directed at speedyquad alone ;)

[GE4x4]

For one, it's only 60cc, and another, it still weighs 30+ more lbs then the 450's. So weight to cc, there allmost dead even.

60 ccs is a lot...lets see one of them 450's get a 60 cc make over and then see the results...also, what do we know about the riders, the bikes, etc...not enough to have this be a valid comparison in my books


honestly, you copuldn't give me one them...i rode a predator once...spent about 10 minutes on it...that was more than enough...it handled like ***...the only would be good for straight line drags...

i was about to say the same thing about the raptor


i know this was to goad some of us into an arguement...i'll bite because it just so happens that i am home alone with nothing to do so i feel like stating my opinion on polaris products...

everyone i have seen locally, even the very well maintained ones, end up having some major problems, are very uncomfortable ergonomically, handle poorly, and seem like they are put together with cheaply made parts. that is just my observation...

i have ridden just about every polaris model made...the only one i have not been on is the outlaws...to be honest, i don't know of anybody that rides a polaris anymore, they all got tired of missing our rides because there was something wrong with the bike.

i even worked at a dealership and on my first day, the 3 other salesmen warned me that of all the brands they sell(honda, yamaha, kawsaki, suzuki, and polaris), the only one they do not expect to return for repairs is the honda. the one they expect to see most is polaris. that is sad that 3 different salemen can tell me that on the smae day at different times without the others being around.

you can like your polaris all you want, you will never see one in my garage and when it comes to riding somewhere to where there is skill involved, at least more than guessing the start and clutch/throttle work, then we'll see how them polaris' do...

[GE4x4]

CC's are a very small equation for power. The 450's have higher compression, higher rev limiters, and quite a bit lighter. An if you don't like them, then don't reply and cut it down.

Originally posted by PolarisRider06
kinda interesting how none of the bashers have anything to say now.... :)

it was asked for...you can't title the topic the way you did and want absolutely no bashing. you were fishing for the repsonse i gave you...you got it, now you can't handle...

yes cc is not the only factor...there is all the things you mentioned, along with rider skill, bike condition(maintenance), and many others...not to mention it was straight line drag...now since you brought it up, why does polaris make so heavy machines?everything they make is heavy...that extra weight really hurts their weight to power ratio...

[GE4x4]

I won't argue about weight, there are heavier then most. But with the 525 they are much better. Considering it has IRS and is the widest stock quad (other then LTR) with the larges fuel tank, it's lighter then the Raptor and only 30lbs heavier then the 450R, LTR and KFX450's. So they are getting better. If they put the 525 in the Pred chassie, it would put that at about 365lbs.

[coryatver]

That video just showed a polaris whoooping up on 450s. I am impressed with its straight line speed. I guess they were not lying when they said it was going to be the fastest stock quad. Now the question is how does it handle and how reliable is it.

[ScramblerXLE]

for what it's worth Polaris's "heavy" 525 is 1 lb lighter than the 700r, and is not much heavier than a honda 450ER, with a bigger motor and IRS.

Also, just my $0.02, everyone i hang with rides Polaris w/ the exception of a suzuki Z400 and a YFZ 450, the Z has been dependable, the YFZ not so much. I have read problems about EVERY 450 motor hand grenading, and have witnessed it myself. $1000 later it still doesn't run quite right, but the guy's on his way to fixing it hopefully for good. The point is, every one of them has problems. My luck with Polaris has been great, as has most of the other guys' in my group. So sorry if i can't relate to polaris' lack of reliability, but it hasn't happenned in our group.

P.S. ONE exception. My predator had a bad oil pump from the factory, but i don't know any other manufacturer which would slowly replace over $7000 in parts over the course of the next 6 months every time something let go, and not ask questions. Hell, my friend tried to take his YFZ in b/c the parking brake quit working, and they blamed that on the operator! Sorry, but while my Pred was kinda a peice until they figured out what was wrong w/ it, Polaris stood behind their merchandise better than most other companies would.

Also, the 525 engine should be extremely reliable. They're fantasic in the bikes, and their adjustment's/maintanence are simpler than the Japanese bikes. Valve adjustments are particularly sweet b/c they don't require you to pull the cams, shim, then re-time the whole motor every time. For more information, look around the I-net, i think you'll find that this 525 engine is a work of art.

[Evasiveone]

Well here is a video of a stroked yfz 480 plus pipe and all the mods that go with it getting spanked by a STOCK 525.

STOCK 525 vs stroked yfz 480 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFr8JHCXuZ4)

The 525 is 1 pound lighter than the 700R and it has reverse unlike most of the 450's.

As far as them never expecting to see the Hondas back at the dealership they will see all of these back 2004-2005 model year Honda FourTrax ATVs (Recons, Ranchers, Foremans, Foreman Rubicons and Rincons and also now add to the list the '06 TRX450 is on recall now too. (No slam to Honda owners intended. Just going after a direct statement).

The engine is built by KTM so engine reliability has already been established.

the repairs that the polaris were returned for we not recalls, they were broken parts. i feel a recall is a good thing. it is an admittance of a problem and a fix for it.

i know you all hear about the starters failing on the 06 er's. mine was rebuilt after my warranty ran out. the starter issue is partially a user error, and partially honda giving lack of info problem. guess what, mine did not need repaired yet, parts were replaced so it would not need repaired adn it cost me nothing. remember my warranty had already run out.


i get a kick out the the guy saying "with the fat kid on it"...guess what...there is your 60 pound weight eliminated with still more cc's...hmmm...again, straight line drag...means nothing...if it hadnles like poop, it will get spanked all over the palce where real skill comes into play...


and polaris had to go to another engine builder/manufacturer to do it...

[sandmanblue]

Originally posted by Evasiveone
.... the '06 TRX450 is on recall now too. (No slam to Honda owners intended. Just going after a direct statement).....

Recall??? For a thumb throttle lever that might break and some early '06 machines had possibly bad tie rod ends.....



BTW - from another site, the outlaw 525's dyno at about 43 hp bone stock, so they aren't the power makers you guys think they are.


The first video - I see a Z400, an LTR450 and (I believe the white one with the black hood is a stock '07 trx450). Based on the (lack of) noise levels, none of these competitors seem to have much work done to them. The 525 should beat them in a drag if the 450's were stock. Not a big accomplishment....

The second video - if that's a yfz480, there's something wrong with it, or the guy doesn't know how to tune it. Maybe it was built by Trinity.... :blah:



I'll be happy to run one of these Outlaws with my little trx..... :devil:

[GE4x4]

The Outlaw is only 60cc bigger, but has lower compression, doesn't rev as high and weighs 30lbs+ more. So the power to weight is allmost the same. It takes a lot more then just adding CC to make power. I'm sure you didn't just add a bigger piston without doing more to your 477. I'm sure it's a high compression, with airbox mods, jetting, and a pipe on top of it. How much power do you think you would get if you just got a bigger piston with the same compression and left everything stock. Not much. The Outlaw is bone stock.

[Evasiveone]

Actually wasn't talking about the thumb throttle. The fourtrax recall I mentioned was for boot failure that could lead to tie rod failure. I only mentioned this because of the statment that Honda's never go back to the dealer once they leave for repairs. All brands will have repairs.

And 43 hp bone stock is pretty impressive. Anything can be made fast with mods and money, but the 525 is impressive right off the showroom floor.

i think i covered your little recall comment...i got my a-arm recall..honda is making it right, as they did with my throttle...i feel that having recalls on even little things is better than letting the problems go, even if they are minor. just shows that honda is looking out for its customers

is polaris still using the same belt drive system that slips off the pulleys on instant contact with water.


the saddest sight i have ever seen was a 12 hour old polaris being pullled off a trail at a poker run by a 10 year old honda. the big polaris was going through a water hole adn the belt slipped...the guy was so embarrased, becuase just before he was bragging about how easily his new machine was going to go through the mud hole...he needed pulled out of the hole and pulled back to the parking area. funny thing is...my 300ex went through the hole same hole 4 or 5 times...

[GE4x4]

The old Polaris's were prone to get water in the belt. Being the 1st with a CVT they did have issues. But now they have the most water tight cvt made with the highest snorkles. And now everyone makes CVT quads. (except Honda) I will not say early Polaris quads were reliable, as they were not. But they kept pushing each year to make them better. Honda's were reliable, but they were very simple quads. Air cooled, swing arm, drum brakes, and a shifting tranny. Polaris tried something new with more features. Now everyone makes them. So yes they were not as reliable, but it only made quads better as we see today.

i don't like automatic and i don't feel it should be on a quad...the only time anyone should have an automatic quad is if they are physically disabled and need one...

anyways, from what i hear, there is still not much attention to quality control there...the parts still look and feel cheap...and it took them a few years to fix the problem. well them and yamaha fixing it too...


i'll say this...honda may not get the new item out first, but when it comes out, it is done right...they put more research and development into their products than anyone else...

what is the bone stock hp on my 450r? almost the same as the larger cc outlaw

[GE4x4]

A bone stock 450R has a crank hp of 44 and the 525 is 50.

hmmmm

[MEOHMY]

I like Honda's reliability. There's a reason so many are using them in races and most finish. With that said no Honda rider should come in here talking about how fast it is or others are not. I have beaten 450r's on my Pred and it wasn't even close. Yes, they had good riders etc... They are just not fast bikes as owned by most. And i'm not talking about race prepped bikes at the pro level which in reality are not even Honda's anymore they're frankensteins. As are most Pro level bikes. The avg Joe around town on a 450r has an inferior bike when it comes to speed but they are obviously powerful enough to comete and win as they have proven with the right riders on them. They appear to handle well and are reliable. All we have so far on the Outlaw is straight line feedback until GNCC gets underway.

[monster 525]

Just to chime in.I sold my tricked out cannondale 450 and a highly
modded pred 500 to buy the 525 outlaw.My first ride out i got tried by 4 diffrent bikes and this is how it went
z400- dont even waste the fuel
Honda 450r- I thought these things didnt have reverse???
raptor 700 -close but not close enough
Cannondale 450 with lots of Mods- I beat it as well.
The simple point is that no matter what bike you choose to ride
people are always gonna say theres is better.The rivalry is kool,But to beat this 525 you are gonna have to mod your bike up and be on your "A" game.So if and when somone beats the KTM so be it,But you have simply boosted your bikes performance to even stay close with a stock POLARIS!!!!!!!:blah:

[eerhard09]

Originally posted by monster 525
Z400- dont even waste the fuel
Honda 450r- I thought these things didnt have reverse???
raptor 700 -close but not close enough
Cannondale 450 with lots of Mods- I beat it as well.
The simple point is that no matter what bike you choose to ride
people are always gonna say theres is better.The rivalry is kool,But to beat this 525 you are gonna have to mod your bike up and be on your "A" game.So if and when somone beats the KTM so be it,But you have simply boosted your bikes performance to even stay close with a stock POLARIS!!!!!!!:blah:

Good comparison monster. Nobody on here has come up with a personal experience against their 525 yet except for you. Sounds like it is a strong runner! Do you think most of its drag racing capabilities can be attributed to the 25lbs of torque that is there immediately and not so much as the HP that it is putting out?

I would not know how well the 525 runs because mine has been sitting in my garage since Jan 29th when I picked it up and has not been started. It is still between -5 and 10 degrees here in N.E. ohio and I am not about to break it in when it is that cold! Eff this state!

[AoDPredator]

a mag did a 9 hour race an used new quad from each company that want to let them use there quads thay got 2 yfz 450 an one honda 450r an 2 Polaris Preds. By the end on the race here is the things they found out. The yfz had the fastest lap an the Pred finshed higher do to the fact they did not have to work on it the whole race an the honda had problems with the sub frame falling off. The put the yfz 1st an the Pred 2nd honda 3rd the Polaris got secound cause it had more part that were worn out it even had a blow rear shock but they said did not affect the ride an as the race went longer the rider who were waiting there turn were hoping to ride the Polaris cause it was smoother.

[PolarisRider06]

Originally posted by speedyquad
it was asked for...you can't title the topic the way you did and want absolutely no bashing. you were fishing for the repsonse i gave you...you got it, now you can't handle...



well lets see.... I HAVENT BEEN ON THIS SITE SINCE I POSTED THAT DIP$H!T... ever think of that....


now to the topic.... this is not a question if your 477 honda or 480 yamaha can beat a BONE STOCK 525 POLARIS OUTLAW.... personally i sure as hell hope it does if not you just wasted your money... this is just saying that polaris was right when they said they have the fastest accelerating STOCK quad on the market... did the ever say it was the best handling? NO... did they ever say it was the best MXer? NO... it was designed to be quicker than everything else stock to stock and to haul @$$ around a CROSS COUNTRY TRACK.... now to everyone saying they handle like crap bla bla bla go check out the thread on the 525 ride and review by jeff stoess... HE RACES A HONDA yet he still has a lot of good things to say about the outlaw including the fact that with stock suspension he can hit the whoops at 70 mph. that is what makes a good tester, someone who can ride something and not be biassed against it because its not what they normally ride....

now when it comes to polaris reliability yeah everything that was from about 93 earlier was pretty unreliable, but after that its all good pretty much, not to mention the fact that every year polaris makes changes not like honda great new graphics for the next year.... there are true changes in the machines year after year, when a problem is found with one model year it not only was repaired under waranty it was fixed for the next year and upgraded to something that wouldn't fail...

did you know polaris found out that in the transmissions of the 4 wheel drive scramblers had one bushing in them that would fail... they told that to TEAM industries, the company that makes their transmissions that just happens to have their product research and develpment factory in my home town and i happen to be friends with the guy who is the main tester in town of all of the products that they manufacture (transmisions for multiple atv brands, clutches for race sleds and factory sleds, EZ-Go parts, Harley Davidson transmissions and more) he said they finally figured out what polaris was doing to fry the bushing in the tranny.... they filled up the gastank went out on the highway and pinned it and helled it pinned untill they ran out of gas and kept doing the exact same thing till the bushing went... no one could ever replicate that in regular use and its kinda hard to do that in bagley too... so they took a cherrypicker and lifted up the back and taped the trottle on the scrambler 500 wide open and did it day after day after day... its an older scrambler at that and it was raced by dave (the test guy) in motocross races for a couple of years and guess what... a week or so ago i went in there and he was putting it back like he had it for mx back in the day (different handlebars, remove the headlight take out front drive shafts and hiper carbon fiber rears and douglas fronts) and he said he checked compression and all of that and it was still pretty much the same as it was when they got it years back and it still ran great! that machine alone has been through more hell than anyone on this site could probably put anything through... mostly because it is a test vehicle and many of the tests were full throttle tests for hours on end..... every polaris auto tranny that is a TEAM product has been through insane tests to diagnose issues and prevent failure once in production (things like WOT forward then slammed into reverse.... until the tranny blows out and it takes a while) the motors in polaris atv's are also bulletproof.... the only issue is that the clutch snorkel used to be wrongly placed and the belt would get wet and slip.... other manufactures have had the same problem since then.... polaris just happened to be the first because polaris just happened to be the first to have an auto tranny quad....

now look at honda.... how long did the 400ex go pretty much completely unchanged? no wonder there wasn't any problems with them... they have had over 10 years to fix every problem same goes for yamaha and the blaster and banshee....

[ScramblerXLE]

*agrees* 500 scramblers are amazing! mine has been running at pretty near WOT since i bought it in 2001, and without even a valve adjustment, still starts and runs FANTASTIC. That machine is the single most reliable machine that anyone in our group has ever operated. It's often brought along when we go riding now, just incase someone breaks down. If they do, the scrammy to the rescue! and they just pay for gas and the ORV sticker to ride it on the trails (if there's not one on it for the year yet) I'm goin' to restore it soon tho... plastic's gettin beat, and someone ripped a hole in my seat. I think replacing these things and putting on iRazrs, on black wheels would make for a mean lookin' scrammy.

[sandmanblue]

I am not slamming the 525 in any way. I like it - and it has potential.

My only point was to say that the original video which was about "laying the smack down" is ridiculous. The 525 should beat stock 450's and 400's... duh... that's not an accomplishment.

Stock for stock is not a comparison that exhibits real life. Who leaves their qad stock and then goes racing? They get whooped on if they are left stock.

The comment about my 477 was a silly example of comparisons as well. My quad better destroy that stock outlaw - and I am quite confident that it will. But, again... it's not a fair comparison and if I posted vids with me racing a stock 525 and said I "was laying the smack down" it would be pretty stupid.



What I want to see is what happens to the 525 after a compression increase, intake mods, full exhaust, proper jetting and cams get thrown at it.

THAT would be a fun ride - hopefully a solid 60 hp.....

BTW - here's the dyno - it's on knobbies which such about 3 - 4 hp off the readings. The two runs are with and without airbox lid... Not too shabby...

[ScramblerXLE]

what's really got me excited is that for a touch over 1500, you can bore/stroke the 525 from a 510.4 to a 576, with only KTM factory race parts. (which wouldn't hurt reliability, which is what i'm ALL ABOUT anymore, after my Predator disaster) Anyway, that sounds stupidly fast to me. Particularly if you then add the mods you're talkin about. The 525 WILL be the fastest in the group i ride with, and since i was (agruably because one other guy was close) the fastest in our littl group anyway, those mods won't become necessary unless one of them sinks some serious cash... anyway, like you said, i like to have that potential :D

[firefighterjosh]

OK this will end it...ok prally not but

Why does everyone choose a 450 honda/yami over a popo to race?????????:blah:

[GE4x4]

Originally posted by firefighterjosh
OK this will end it...ok prally not but

Why does everyone choose a 450 honda/yami over a popo to race?????????:blah:

I would say it's due to the racing haratige (sp) These have been in the racing seen for decades, while Polaris just started a couple years ago. So it will take a lot for someone to be convinced that a Polaris can be raced. But even so, the 500 was a good engine, but was still to heavy and not enough power. The 525 took care of both. But Polaris still has to prove it can be raced. So this won't be answered until a few races are done, and with good results. They have the best atv contigency in GNCC racing, so they are taking it series.

[PolarisRider06]

agreed^^^^


and to sandmanblue... the whole point is to show it beating them stock for stock... polaris claimed to have the fastest accelerating stock quad on the market.... that just proved it... not many people actually believed it especially the honda/yamaha guys so thats just there to show them whats up....

now the sad thing about you saying that it "should" win because of the engine size yet all of this was previously discussed with size/weight ect.... not to mention if you had a modded 450 (non bigbore) and entered open class and won you would say its because the polaris is junk but then if in the second moto you got stomped on by it you would say i sure as hell hope it beats me its way bigger than my 450..... that would be after you had already told a bunch of people that the polaris is no problem to beat because they are crappy track quads and they are heavy and slow and all that other good stuff.... bottom line is its an open classer made to run open class.... even the STOCK 450's that decide to run open class (yes it does happen... A LOT... esspecially at smaller races...)

[monster 525]

My buddy is on his way over with a 07 Le raptor.Gonna rum em and ill let ya know how the 525 does.:devil:

[micah78]

I think another "problem" with the publics perception of Polaris and the predator is that it is a 500 motor. Correct me if I'm wrong but, doesn't the 500 cc motor keep the Polaris from being able to compete on the MX track? Not that the motor is crappy but it is too big to compete in the 450 class. If Polaris isn't represented well on the track, then people just automatically decide that they must suck. I think once there are enough people out there learning how to ride the IRS Outlaw fast, the other manufacturers will follow. People can debate all day long about how Smiley and others don't like the Outlaw because it handles like this or like that. In the end it's just not what they are used to riding. The top riders already know how to ride fast on a solid rear axle and see no reason to change. With a little luck Polaris will find someone who will master their riding technique on the Outlaw and dominate.

[Evasiveone]

I totally agree with you Micah78.

Racers on the pro level have been riding straight axle quads all their lives. They do not want to take a season to retrain their riding style. As some of the amatuers start riding the IRS setup and work their way up to the Pro level I think you will see more and more IRS sport quads on the Pro level. There are just too many advantages to the IRS setup and people who are riding quads like the Outlaw are seeing those advantages first hand.

[joetaylor1010]

i think those videos are bull**** a yfz480 with ups getting beat i think those are the biggest bull**** videos ever and i think the outlaw is the gayest quad i have ever seen in my life it should deffintly just be blow up i fcuking hate it

[eerhard09]

Awe joetaylor1010, thanks for the input, that was very sweet of you! I take your opinion with the highest regard, hope you enjoyed your time on here!

[wilts42]

see you later joe.

[2muchquad]

Awe joetaylor1010, thanks for the input, that was very sweet of you! I take your opinion with the highest regard, hope you enjoyed your time on here!


Theres gotta be one in every crowd:blah:

Looks like a good ol'fashion beat down imo.I happen to ride 2 Ktm mx bikes so i like seeing the "big brands" get smoked.Go Polaris!:D

[Terminator2]

Originally posted by sandmanblue
Recall??? For a thumb throttle lever that might break and some early '06 machines had possibly bad tie rod ends.....



BTW - from another site, the outlaw 525's dyno at about 43 hp bone stock, so they aren't the power makers you guys think they are.


The first video - I see a Z400, an LTR450 and (I believe the white one with the black hood is a stock '07 trx450). Based on the (lack of) noise levels, none of these competitors seem to have much work done to them. The 525 should beat them in a drag if the 450's were stock. Not a big accomplishment....

The second video - if that's a yfz480, there's something wrong with it, or the guy doesn't know how to tune it. Maybe it was built by Trinity.... :blah:



I'll be happy to run one of these Outlaws with my little trx..... :devil:

If your TRX was stock and the 525 outlaw was stock you would lose that race. Comparing your apparently heavily modded TRX to a bone stock outlaw is not a valid comparison. Stock TRX 450Rs make about 8-10 less whp and wrtq than an outlaw 525 so it makes a lot more power stock.

[450mxr]

Originally posted by Terminator2
If your TRX was stock and the 525 outlaw was stock you would lose that race. Comparing your apparently heavily modded TRX to a bone stock outlaw is not a valid comparison. Stock TRX 450Rs make about 8-10 less whp and wrtq than an outlaw 525 so it makes a lot more power stock.

welcome to a two and a half year old thread.