serious engine building questions

[rustee]

hello all i am looking for some advice and info on an engine build that i am getting ready to do. i have a 05 450r t/c motor his cam ,port/piston etc. my son races in the edt tt nationals, time for more hp. i am on the fence with what to do i was thinking 1mm over ion the exhuast valves standerd ss intakes. a web 208/920 grind and perhaps a sparks 13.8.1 or a baldwin 14.1.1 piston. i am pretty sure i am going to have a valve to piston clearance issue. i have built a lot of motors but most all of them were drop in componets piston. cam, vaves etc. i am looking for detailed instructions on how to clay the cylinder. how much clay what type of clay and were to read it, ball it up flaten it out ?.any help with this would be great. i am really on the fence with the cam i do not want a hc1 or 2 i was thinking of the sparks full race but it is pricey and you need titanium intake valves whitch i dont have an issue with but they do not last and i would like to get the season out of it. web told me i need to have the cam carriage machined 2mm because the cam lobes are running off the buckets so i need larger ones. has any one had this problem or can i just use the cam any way there site says nothing about it untill you call them. any info or sugestions on cam piston set ups would be great. i def want at least 13.5.1 + we run 112 octane fuel as well. thanks again rustee.

[honda4life72]

i would go with hc2 it makes power in the higher rpms

[becci4]

if you really want to get some good power out of ur bike give dasa a call and ask for brandon or dan 951-681-1131. they can set you up with valves, cam, piston, carb, crf ignition, etc. if you really want to win give them a call!

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by honda4life72
i would go with hc2 it makes power in the higher rpms

He just said he didn't want either hotcam and you suggest one for him?

The cam he has now is more "agressive" than a hotcam. I would pm chad502ex or wait for him to reply in here, cause he knows his stuff. Actually if you just check out any of his builds on here, there are detailed pictures on claying, as well as many suggestions and helpful little hints for these motors.:cool:

[rustee]

thanks for the reply guys i did see one of chads pics on the clay being cut i beleive it was red. but i will wait and see if he postes if not i will try and pm him i need to know exactly what i am doing. i am really getting a headach with this i have talked to sparks, baldwin,duncan and every one of them points me in diffrent directions. baldwin dosent recomend ti valves use his cam and piston and i wont have a run off problem, but he wants me to buy a new head from him and use his port work . not sure how his cams are? anyone?. sparks wants me to use his tt cam and ti valves at 166.00 per valve and 350.00 for his overpriced cam 50.00 per seat for the new ti valves and 200.00 labor.and what am i really gaining? that a new valve job 1 mm over exhuast and a web cam and decent piston would give me.my reg machine guy can do the valves and head for this for about 400.00 is any one having good results with web cams and baldwin pistons? i know i am asking alot of questions and money isnt the issue i just want to do it right and make it faster and reliable as can be at the same time. not looking for a pro motor for constant tear downs. thanks again for the responce. rustee................

[honda4life72]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
He just said he didn't want either hotcam and you suggest one for him?

The cam he has now is more "agressive" than a hotcam. I would pm chad502ex or wait for him to reply in here, cause he knows his stuff. Actually if you just check out any of his builds on here, there are detailed pictures on claying, as well as many suggestions and helpful little hints for these motors.:cool:
sorry read it wrong :D

[haworthcw1]

rustee,
I just got my head back from DASA I had them port the head use the 208/921 cam from web cam in which they had to mmachine the carrier and put over sized buckets along with over sized intake and exhaust valves, I have a 13:1 JE Piston and run VP U4-1 fuel with a full sparks pipe setup. For the head work alone ran me close to 1700.00, but it was well worth it. my friend has a new suzuki 450 that rage built his motor and my bike pulls him by almost a full bike length out of the gate. dasa is pricey, but money buys results.

[yfz450rida]

i have seen dasa motors they are something to speak about. My guy has a 450r built by them for TT i have heard better results from them there port, 14:1 piston, web cam, big ti valves with ti retainers he did have the bigger buckets, he runs crf ignition, and a crf head gasket increases comp by .5 i think he said, he has his carb bored out to 43 mil. which he said really made the bike pull very hard with the motor work. He had a few other things i cant remember but his quad dynoed at 70+ hp rear wheel. The only thing he said like you was the the motor eat valves for breakfast lunch and dinner. But he said it is well worth it.

[sandmanblue]

Originally posted by rustee
hello all i am looking for some advice and info on an engine build that i am getting ready to do. i have a 05 450r t/c motor his cam ,port/piston etc. my son races in the edt tt nationals, time for more hp. i am on the fence with what to do i was thinking 1mm over ion the exhuast valves standerd ss intakes. a web 208/920 grind and perhaps a sparks 13.8.1 or a baldwin 14.1.1 piston. i am pretty sure i am going to have a valve to piston clearance issue. i have built a lot of motors but most all of them were drop in componets piston. cam, vaves etc. i am looking for detailed instructions on how to clay the cylinder. how much clay what type of clay and were to read it, ball it up flaten it out ?.any help with this would be great. i am really on the fence with the cam i do not want a hc1 or 2 i was thinking of the sparks full race but it is pricey and you need titanium intake valves whitch i dont have an issue with but they do not last and i would like to get the season out of it. web told me i need to have the cam carriage machined 2mm because the cam lobes are running off the buckets so i need larger ones. has any one had this problem or can i just use the cam any way there site says nothing about it untill you call them. any info or sugestions on cam piston set ups would be great. i def want at least 13.5.1 + we run 112 octane fuel as well. thanks again rustee.

I think you will find that the 208 web is available in two versions. Reduced base circle and full base circle. The FBC is easier on the valve train but it's still one of the most abusive cams you can buy. It will be very hard on springs, valves, seats, cam chains... just about everything. It makes great power, but it's not well known for being easy on parts.

A suggestion that will make nearly yher same power it the Web 493 (NOT the 943...). It will make better mid than the 208 and a littel less at the very top. It's a better choice IMHO - based on reports of ppl that have run both cams, not my own experience.

Another great choice is the Megacycle X1. It's much easier on the valve train and makes great power too.

As far as pistons go, I have seen pics of the Baldwin 14:1 where there were problems on the pin from lack of oiling. You should check with CP for offerings or go with the CP manufactured Venom 14:1 piston. It has a great track record and is tried and true.


Clay checking isn't rocket science - take your time and use refrigerated modeling clay. There are plenty of how to's on this if you look. Unless you deck the head, you actually shouldn't see any clearance problems with the Venom 14:1 piston and any of the cams listed here. You should also be able to use SS valves with the X1 or 493 without issue with the right springs.



Also - haworthcw1 - PLEASE get that motor on a DYNOJET dyno and post the results. You would be one of the first to show what kind of results can be had with DASA's parts.... We would all be VERY appreciative if you could do that.... I would assume that you would want to get it on a dyno to fine tune jetting anyway. As long as it is not done on a Superflow or a Mustang dyno... Please use a Dynojet.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by sandmanblue
I think you will find that the 208 web is available in two versions. Reduced base circle and full base circle. The FBC is easier on the valve train but it's still one of the most abusive cams you can buy. It will be very hard on springs, valves, seats, cam chains... just about everything. It makes great power, but it's not well known for being easy on parts.

A suggestion that will make nearly yher same power it the Web 493 (NOT the 943...). It will make better mid than the 208 and a littel less at the very top. It's a better choice IMHO - based on reports of ppl that have run both cams, not my own experience.

Another great choice is the Megacycle X1. It's much easier on the valve train and makes great power too.

As far as pistons go, I have seen pics of the Baldwin 14:1 where there were problems on the pin from lack of oiling. You should check with CP for offerings or go with the CP manufactured Venom 14:1 piston. It has a great track record and is tried and true.


Clay checking isn't rocket science - take your time and use refrigerated modeling clay. There are plenty of how to's on this if you look. Unless you deck the head, you actually shouldn't see any clearance problems with the Venom 14:1 piston and any of the cams listed here. You should also be able to use SS valves with the X1 or 493 without issue with the right springs.



Also - haworthcw1 - PLEASE get that motor on a DYNOJET dyno and post the results. You would be one of the first to show what kind of results can be had with DASA's parts.... We would all be VERY appreciative if you could do that.... I would assume that you would want to get it on a dyno to fine tune jetting anyway. As long as it is not done on a Superflow or a Mustang dyno... Please use a Dynojet.

Hey, jackoff- sandmanblue! your feebleminded Venom babbling is only welcomed where your juvenile building attempts are supported... Go take your 480R- OH WAIT, it blew-up... ....could not have happened to a nicer j-a-c-k-off imo...


sandmanblue- you have no real concept of cams and their associated P-V. Even recommending what you have is proof of that. I bet you have never even measured P-V using a 208/Baldwin or X1, or even held any of the cams your suggesting in your hands for that matter.... :rolleyes:



Rustee, you should ignore sandmanblue.. He is only here to try to discredit me- and now DASA... For that matter, his daily Venom slurping has really gotten obnoxious..


Rustee, PM me if you have any questions,... I can't even compose myself around that swine sandmanblue aka Chucky-Cheese boy to address your questions... For this I'm sorry, but I will be glad to answer any question you have in PM.....

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by yfz450rida
i have seen dasa motors they are something to speak about. My guy has a 450r built by them for TT i have heard better results from them there port, 14:1 piston, web cam, big ti valves with ti retainers he did have the bigger buckets, he runs crf ignition, and a crf head gasket increases comp by .5 i think he said, he has his carb bored out to 43 mil. which he said really made the bike pull very hard with the motor work. He had a few other things i cant remember but his quad dynoed at 70+ hp rear wheel. The only thing he said like you was the the motor eat valves for breakfast lunch and dinner. But he said it is well worth it.

Thanks I needed a good laugh....70+hp....try it without the nitrous bottle next time....:rolleyes:

[haworthcw1]

Originally posted by sandmanblue
I think you will find that the 208 web is available in two versions. Reduced base circle and full base circle. The FBC is easier on the valve train but it's still one of the most abusive cams you can buy. It will be very hard on springs, valves, seats, cam chains... just about everything. It makes great power, but it's not well known for being easy on parts.

A suggestion that will make nearly yher same power it the Web 493 (NOT the 943...). It will make better mid than the 208 and a littel less at the very top. It's a better choice IMHO - based on reports of ppl that have run both cams, not my own experience.

Another great choice is the Megacycle X1. It's much easier on the valve train and makes great power too.

As far as pistons go, I have seen pics of the Baldwin 14:1 where there were problems on the pin from lack of oiling. You should check with CP for offerings or go with the CP manufactured Venom 14:1 piston. It has a great track record and is tried and true.


Clay checking isn't rocket science - take your time and use refrigerated modeling clay. There are plenty of how to's on this if you look. Unless you deck the head, you actually shouldn't see any clearance problems with the Venom 14:1 piston and any of the cams listed here. You should also be able to use SS valves with the X1 or 493 without issue with the right springs.



Also - haworthcw1 - PLEASE get that motor on a DYNOJET dyno and post the results. You would be one of the first to show what kind of results can be had with DASA's parts.... We would all be VERY appreciative if you could do that.... I would assume that you would want to get it on a dyno to fine tune jetting anyway. As long as it is not done on a Superflow or a Mustang dyno... Please use a Dynojet.

Chad502EX,
I will be putting it on a DYNO in the next few weeks to see what this motor will do. I spokke with Dan from DASA 2 days ago and he told me that my motor is the same as Joe Byrds motor except he has a balanced crank, also he told me it should put out about 55-57 HP, but unless you know how to use a dyno you will not get accurate results. So many people on these threads say there bikes put out x# HP, the only way to get an accurate ready in to test your built motor against a stockk motor one after another without some idiot manipulating the Dyno. I will be happy if it pushes 50-55 HP, as far a the jetting is concerned everything is super responsive, but i will for to a fcR carb from Tokyo mods along with a dynatek CDI. Also i modded the clutch and am changing the flywheel this weekend. All that i can say is stay on top of your valve adjustment . this guy clamming 70 hp on stock bore is insane, and I do not even think it is virtually possible. My friend bought Kieth Littles race bike from last year with only 5 races on it, he put it on a Dyno and it pulled 50hp, so like i said i will be happy with 50-55hp range. I know my bike pulls extremly hard, and there is no lag comming out of the corners

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by haworthcw1
Chad502EX,
I will be putting it on a DYNO in the next few weeks to see what this motor will do. I spokke with Dan from DASA 2 days ago and he told me that my motor is the same as Joe Byrds motor except he has a balanced crank, also he told me it should put out about 55-57 HP, but unless you know how to use a dyno you will not get accurate results. So many people on these threads say there bikes put out x# HP, the only way to get an accurate ready in to test your built motor against a stockk motor one after another without some idiot manipulating the Dyno. I will be happy if it pushes 50-55 HP, as far a the jetting is concerned everything is super responsive, but i will for to a fcR carb from Tokyo mods along with a dynatek CDI. Also i modded the clutch and am changing the flywheel this weekend. All that i can say is stay on top of your valve adjustment . this guy clamming 70 hp on stock bore is insane, and I do not even think it is virtually possible. My friend bought Kieth Littles race bike from last year with only 5 races on it, he put it on a Dyno and it pulled 50hp, so like i said i will be happy with 50-55hp range. I know my bike pulls extremly hard, and there is no lag comming out of the corners

yup. Hey, good luck with your testing. We hope it rocks.