Ballance disses 250R's in Quad magazine

[250Renvy]

There is an interview with Bill Ballance in the latest issue of Quad magazine and they ask him about how the YFZ compares to his old 250R and he says "it is so far ahead of the old aftermarket framed 250R's" and that the new technology in the fourstrokes makes it so much easier for them to race fast. He thinks in a few years, today's quads may not even be competitive. (paraphrasing).

The fourstroke ideology is a machine that is baffling. Do the riders really believe it or is it drilled into them so much that they just spout out whatever the factory tells them? I keep asking myself who is behind the fourstroke machine and why? What technology? Besides the new FI, there still aren't computers or technologically advanced designs in these quads?

I know I'm preaching to the choir on this part of the site, but it just goes to show you that 2-stroke truely is dead (as far as quads go)

[Pappy]

exactly how did he "Diss" the R:confused:

[deathman53]

he is right to a point, they are easier to ride. I bet he was paid to say that, if he said that its as good as his 250r, do you think his sponsers would be very happy, thats the possiblitly of 250r being built over buying a yfz. I don't get all these guys, they don't say anything good about a 250r, ballances frame and chassis stuff was far from "old". Why did he say that???? Now that quads are back in the main-stream, 250r's are being abandoned for new 450's. I preffer the feel of a 250r over the new bikes, I bet half the racers would say so also(off the record).

How can these guys say that new bikes handle better, any of you ever ridden a leager narrow frame c500 link bike? Everything on the bike handles so perfect, I got lucky to ride one, I was passing almost everyone. Yes, even the 450's.

[waddle]

yea i think its the sponsers behind this,,, ive always heard jerimaha jones was faster on his R? id like to see the pros out there with 4 and 2 strokes mixed together at the same time, and see how they all stack up,,,, i still love the 2 strokes,,,

[250r4life]

back in middle school, WU Tang introduced me to a phrase...

C.R.E.A.M

Cash Rules Everything Around Me!

that applies here... Cash is King

[jas250r]

he is totally right! So anyone who is faint hearted, and wants to switch over to the tree hugging side, sell me your powervale topend, and anything else your willing to part out that i want:D

[Jerry Prokop]

I have one of ballance's 2003 250r's I just purchased it in august of 2006. The guy that I bought it from races GNCC pro class. He is Friends with Bill and he told me that Bill was talking to him about possibly buying it back. I bought this quad and got rid of my 04 yfz 450 that was set up for cross country. The R handles way better and is much more fun to ride!

[TWILES]

My feeling of why the 250R's were abandoned as fast as they were was because a 16 year old could buy a 450 NEW and it was the coolest thing out for that age group at that time. They never even knew what the old 2-strokes were. Just maybe what they looked like. With the factories now paying people to race NEW bike's, who could blame them. They are atleast up to date with what they are sinking their money into and they can dream all day long and atleast be on a bike that is recognized. The kids here remember when I raced my 500 Quadracer, 250R, and Banshee that their eyes would pop out when they got to see them. They'd get a hard-on when I'd let them start them or move them around my friends parking lot. Thats it though. They were too young to ride them. Now they are 18 - 19 and have 450's since its very impractical to bring a bike last produced in 1989 back to life. I liked the 2-strokes too. Way more than the 450R we have and my 05 WR450 bike BUT they are the way things are going and I'm learning. I think a 250 2-stroke is easier to ride than the 450 thumper by far and I miss the old days and I'm only 25 but I've been around for a while. If someone running a 2-stroke down or maybe just really bragging on a 4-stroke makes you feel inadequet, you should probably stop reading these things or buy a 450.

[250Renvy]

If I had the money, I'd buy all the thumpers and do a personal test ride comparison. Everybody always says the 4strokes are easier to ride, but I have never found it hard to ride a 250R.

I almost bought a 450R at the end of 04 but after riding one was so dissappointed I decided not to. However with no expectations of it feeling like a 250R, I'll probably get the Kawi 450 but still keep the R's

The 250Rs were abandoned so fast because they changed the rules to promote new factory quads, I mean why wouldn't they? They gotta sell machines to make the sport grow.

[DanW]

If they could get the center of gravity down lower on the 4 strokes, and make them about 30 pounds lighter...

i would love to ride a cr 500 link narrow framed R :D

I took my R to a track this past year and everyone looked at me like i was from another planet, but it was great to pass those 2005 and 2006 6-8 thousand dollars 450s out there on my 2800 dollar 20 year old machine... Its a sign of the time though, to all the die hard 250r guys, just stock up on parts while you can...I am getting out of the sport myself...

I use to love watchin motocross, especially the 125s. now its just gotton to the point where its boring...they are making it too easy to ride now...

Notice all the 2 stroke guys can switch to a 4 stroek and ride good but a 4 stroke guy cant hop on a banshee and ride like we can....downshiftin intot he cornors, working the clutch...etc....4 strokes go into the cornor that same gear they come out of it :rolleyes:

[deathman53]

I know what you are saying about people looking at you like you are from another planet. You should see the looks on people's faces when they see my trikes. Even worse, When I pass them. I can keep up and pass people about 1/2 the people, cl;ear most of the jumps. Where I ride at rausch creek, there still is a good number of trx250r's and some very fast people on them. Alot of these 12-18 yr olds, never seen a 250r, they really scratch their head when they see one, even less have seen a atc250r. I like being the minority who ride 2 stroke quads and trikes, it shows that I think for myself, not follow after everybody else like drones.

well said deathman, i wish i could find a good ATC250r for a decent price around here

[spent21]

you can thank the tree huggers. environmentalist are pushing everyone for cleaner, environment friendly machines. they put enough pressure on the quad manufacturers that they abandoned the 2 stroke, so now they're promoting what they have. of course a sponsered rider is going to hype up what ever he is on. he's getting PAID to. what would happen if Dale Jr. ever wispered that he really prefered Miller Lite over Budweiser?

[deathman53]

its sad that a typical city bus or garbage truck puts out the emisions of 100 2 stroke atv's/'dirtbikes for every day being used, now times this by how many busses and garbage trucks there are!!!! Maybe, environmentists should concertate on something else.

[oldskoolex400]

its sad that a typical city bus or garbage truck puts out the emisions of 100 2 stroke atv's/'dirtbikes for every day being used, now times this by how many busses and garbage trucks there are!!!! Maybe, environmentists should concertate on something else.

nooo they cant say anything about that, it would cost the cities to much to get new ones, instead they are pickin on us since we are more of a rec sport, they keep pushing and pushing, eventually somebody is going to push back

i dont know if we are ever going to push back....i heard a rumor that in 2012 their is going to be so strick EPA emissions that anything that is carb, wont pass :rolleyes: now looks like were forced into EFI 4 strokes only

[banshee84]

Originally posted by Honda86
i dont know if we are ever going to push back....i heard a rumor that in 2012 their is going to be so strick EPA emissions that anything that is carb, wont pass :rolleyes: now looks like were forced into EFI 4 strokes only

In California if your bike isn't as clean as the epa would like it to be you get a red sticker and can only ride 8 months out of the year. This goes for 2 strokes 2003 and newer and even some of the newer 4 strokes.

[oldskoolex400]

if we keep loosing trails and tracks at this rate there wont be much of a ATVing sport, to many people already hate us, seems like instead of focusing on us, the cops should by looking into something more important when they come out and tell you you cant ride b/c you are disturbing the neighbors, they should be getting drugs off the street, and other negative things in our society

yup, its gotton to the point where i am getting out of the sport, everyday i ride, someone calls the cops or complains...the cost of fuel, and just bills in general....maybe if i move up north one day ill get a quad, untill then its just sleds for me...up north their is more sleds then cars during the winter and countless traisl and riding room up their....anyone want to buy my banshee or 250r?

[VZTech]

I agree with all you die hard 2 stroke guys. I could have bought a new 4 stroke but ever since I rode my cousins mint 86r they bought back in the 90's I have always wanted one. I had been trying to buy it from them for 16 yrs when they finally sold it to me a yr ago.I had a 400ex I bought new in 2000 but I like the power of a 2 stroke alot better they are just more fun to ride in my opinion.I just hope we continue to be able to get parts for them that is the only thing that concerns me. I will never sell mine, took 16 yrs of persistence to buy it.:D

[oldskoolex400]

where are you located honda86? how much for shee and 250r? any pics? mods?

[GOTFEAR]

Yea all this stufe is true but we can all agree that the big name factories run all racing sports around the world $$$$$ why suport 250r that they canot sail to day we all saw it coming in atva they started changing rules to play in the hands of the big factories (hon.suz.yam.) NEW atv,s sail SAIL sail SAIL sail ya know.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by deathman53
its sad that a typical city bus or garbage truck puts out the emisions of 100 2 stroke atv's/'dirtbikes for every day being used, now times this by how many busses and garbage trucks there are!!!! Maybe, environmentists should concertate on something else.

Where are you getting your information from? I'm on your side, but let me give you the facts.

We know that 2-strokes pollute more, but I think very few people realize just HOW much more. Your little 40HP 2-stroke engine puts out about 100 times the pollution of a standard V8 engine, and about 250 times a small compact car.

We're not talking about a horsepower for horsepower comparison, or adjusted for size. That V8 is 25 times larger, yet only puts out 1/100 of the pollution!!!


As much as I hate to admit it, these 2-strokes ARE that dirty.

[GOTFEAR]

But they do have the abilities to build new 2 strokes that could pass emissions today they already have it in the boat world. and have you looked at stille weed eaters and blowers they are 4 stroke but mix oil in gas! Oh yea back to the subject Balance is doing what he has to do to survive in todays sponserd world of atving

[CorvetteZ06]

Originally posted by GOTFEAR
But they do have the abilities to build new 2 strokes that could pass emissions today they already have it in the boat world. and have you looked at stille weed eaters and blowers they are 4 stroke but mix oil in gas! Oh yea back to the subject Balance is doing what he has to do to survive in todays sponserd world of atving

exactly, do you think yamaha wants ballance to say he liked his 250R better. I dont think ballance wants to lose his job. its just like these other pros, last year they ran Elka shocks, and they said they were the best. This year they are on Fox shocks, now they claim FOX shocks are the best. Well? what happened to thier Elka shocks? Its all about marketing.

[LT250Racer609]

back in 04' when the 450R first came out, i was one of the first in my district to pull up to the starting line with one...i did about 4 races with it and turned out not liking it very much. Well i had a worked LT250R before i got the 450R and i must say, the 450R was a much better jump from the suzuki but then my dad picked up a stock honda 250R for only 900.00. He threw some a-arms on it, pep shocks and a lonestar +4 axle. Well one day when he was at work i decided to take his 250R for a spin. So i started her up and went up to my track with my sister with the stop watch. As i did a few laps to get a good feeling of the quad, i started getting on it. Turned out i was doing 2-3 second faster laps on my dads 250R then i was on my 450. I just love having to ride in that 2 stroke power band, and i couldnt do that with the 450R...well anyways a few days later i put my 450R up for trade on this site for a worked 250R. Ended up meeting a guy halfway to Ohio to pick it up. The 250R had well over 16 grand into it. Traded him and i have never regreted it...i dumped another 4 grand into it to set it up a little bit more to my riding style and still i wont get rid of it...all my friends think im crazy but they dont have much to say after my 310R walks by all their 450's.

[250r4life]

i hopped on a 05 450r down at the dunes a week ago... holy cow that thing was a dog... i realize that the 450r is slower than the yfz, and especially the 04 and 05 450rs, but man i had forgotten how much of a dog they are...

[Scott-300ex]

Yeh, some places where I ride, I unload my quad and people look at me and its like they've never seen one before.

I'm 19 but I grew up with 250r's, read all my dads 80's and 90's magazines front to back millions of times when I was a little kid and I still do, LoL.

Went to the races around here and nothin but 250r's and lt's runnin.

I looked for a 250r for 8 years, well I finally found one, in excelent shape and ran great so I bought it last year. Its just totally awsome and wouldn't sell it or trade it for the world.

And I read a while ago, I think it was Gary Denton telling a magazine I think it was how much he loved the 250r over the new 450's, and that the 250r was his favorite quad to ride. Now he wasn't afraid to open up to the public and speak the truth.

I will always love the 250r!

[Nac's22]

yea i would like to read that as well. i have dreamed about 250r's since i was like 10 years old and realized what one really was. now im 19 and i bought one on the 24th and i think its the best thing ever. when i showed it to some of the younger kids around me they asked me what it was and i stood there saying you guys say you are such big quad guys and you know everything but you dont know what a 250r is???? i still have and love my 440ex but the 250r is the best quad i have ever ridden. my friend has a 450r and my 250 is just so much faster. i have been converted and i will always ride 250r's.

[csr250r]

I bought huevos 1-3 and it was awsome to see those guys on 250s, they didnt look much slower on the tracks either... i think its all bs how they say that the frame isnt raceworthy... factories dont want the people to know that a 20 year old design can still win, cuz that wouldnt make them ne cash.

[Nac's22]

Originally posted by my88r
where is Stony Point NY i live there binghamton and ithaca in horseheads ny

im about 1-1.5 hours from nyc...... i hate living by the city people automatically think that im from the city

[atc250]

do you guys think the factory sponsers any of these guys for fun? hell no its a sales pitch, bottom line. You get a fairly fast machine on the track and tell everybody its the best and the fastest ever,make somebody a famous rider to back you up and 90% of the population will believe it even though its a blaetent lie.
SUCKERS

[deathman53]

exactly, this is what happened to the 250r's. The changing of rules didn't help either.

[mineralgrey01gt]

I love 2 strokes much more than 4 strokes. My brother introduced me to them a long time ago and he talked for years about wanting to get one. The 4 strokes came out and thats all my friends know about and ride. I wanna build this quad to show them that old school can be just as good and fun as new school.

[quadracer12]

Originally posted by atc250
do you guys think the factory sponsers any of these guys for fun? hell no its a sales pitch, bottom line. You get a fairly fast machine on the track and tell everybody its the best and the fastest ever,make somebody a famous rider to back you up and 90% of the population will believe it even though its a blaetent lie.
SUCKERS

You guys kill me! everyone cried that the factories abandoned us back in 89 now we have them back and you guys wanna ****** about it. with having the factories back it comes with a price. you have to hear the cheesey little adds about how something is better than other stuff. hell in a month or so eichner will be saying how much better the outlaw is than his 250r's and 450r's. LIVE WITH IT!!! if we want this sport to grow we have to except the 4 strokes.


as for witch is better 250r or 450r? i had 7 years experience on a pro level 250r and i loved it. but i can always have a current year 450 in my garage for alot cheaper then it was to keep up a 250.

[atvmxr]

ive only ridden a 450R one time and that thing ripped BUT that was John Natalie's race bike and it was a long long way from stock. but the ergonamics of that thing sucked, totally uncomfortable and wheelied all the time.......

[250Renvy]

Originally posted by quadracer12
You guys kill me! everyone cried that the factories abandoned us back in 89 now we have them back and you guys wanna ****** about it. with having the factories back it comes with a price. you have to hear the cheesey little adds about how something is better than other stuff. hell in a month or so eichner will be saying how much better the outlaw is than his 250r's and 450r's. LIVE WITH IT!!! if we want this sport to grow we have to except the 4 strokes.


as for witch is better 250r or 450r? i had 7 years experience on a pro level 250r and i loved it. but i can always have a current year 450 in my garage for alot cheaper then it was to keep up a 250.

So I guess you guys set me straight. He's just a puppet in the factories hands. They tell him what to say, and he says it. I had no intention of turning this into a 2-stroke vs 4-stroke debate
because it's a never ending argument that neither side will agree with. In the movie/film world there is the never ending debate about film vs digital and it goes on and on.

And even though I don't like the new 4strokes, I was pretty eager to go buy one when they first came out because I wanted to finally have something new. I was just dissappointed that they didn't punch like the 2-strokes I'd been used.
to.

So, would the factories really get their panties in a bunch if he just said, " My old 250R was great, but this is a new era of racing and I love that they are constantly improving my new YFZ(450)" or something like that.

[Kirt13]

This whole thing is about opinion between 2 strokes and 4 strokes, right????
Look at it this way. Maybe, just maybe HE likes the new 4 strokes better. Doesn't mean that 4 strokes are better. That's just his opinion. He is saying that HE likes the 4 strokes better.

[Scott-300ex]

Yeh, I've ridden the yfz and the 450r, not a fan, then I ride my 250r and love how it RIPS!

My buddy has had 2 250r's and then he bought a yfz, needless to say he sold it but kept the 2-strokes.

I like 2-strokes, some people don't, so you just got to deal with it

[pimpt250r]

you may not have to rebuild that fart box as often,, but when you do plan on droppnig a couple of grand,,,

when i can do my R in about 2 hrs and 110.$
Iknow i did the math ,,,,

factory's dont make money if theres no need to repair it,,, the 4 strokes take so much maintinence,, and the cost to do it is outragous
the most expensive thing on a 2 stroke is the gas /oil
ohhhhh i have had the same piston and rings 2 yrs about 80 hrs and still have 165 compression

[slamdak8782]

I read an article a while back and it turns out bonds has always wanted the 4 stroke to be king. Back in the day it was impossible to build a machine that would compare to 2 stroke power. It was in dirt bikes where the battle raged and bonds built the best 4 strokes in the world. Honda was getting its *** handed to it by other 2 stroke dirt bikes and had it not been for the passions of a few engineers building a non sponsored 2 stroke behind the eyes of the their boss. We would probably never have seen so many two strokes from hon da. Anyways im glad they are racing quads and eventually their will be. Loads of parts for the 250r. It is bound to happen similar to that of classic muscle cars.

[slamdak8782]

I read an article a while back and it turns out honda has always wanted the 4 stroke to be king. Back in the day it was impossible to build a machine that would compare to 2 stroke power. It was in dirt bikes where the battle raged and hond built the best 4 strokes in the world. Honda was getting its *** handed to it by other 2 stroke dirt bikes and had it not been for the passions of a few engineers building a non sponsored 2 stroke behind the eyes of the their boss. We would probably never have seen so many two strokes from hon da. Anyways im glad they are racing quads and eventually their will be. Loads of parts for the 250r. It is bound to happen similar to that of classic muscle cars.

[slamdak8782]

I like them both but they have to go with their sponsors. Maybe someday they will build another 250r and we will all clamber to get one the only replacement for a 250r is one with two strokes not 4 and then we will see how many pros are riding 4 strokes. I personally would love to see a rotary r or a nutating engine r. I don't really care what they do as long as they don't try to crush the enthusiasts along the way. I mean it wouldn't be so bad if they just acknowledged the past instead of trying to cover it all up like it never happened. Honda if you want to build heavier slower higher priced quads that is up to you. But in engineering the simplest most efficient design with the least moving parts is always the better design. In racing less weight is key. With a modern port layout power valves and fuel injection 2 stroke s have the upper hand. Have you ever wondered why they don't make more 100 mpg cars. Because someone somewhere loses cash. Cash is and will always be king.

[250rsforlife]

guys look at this way when the south rises again we will make sure the 250r goes along with it :devil:

[danhung11]

This thread is over 4 years old. :ermm:

[Fear250r]

Originally posted by danhung11
This thread is over 4 years old. :ermm:

Don't remind me Dan!

I started reading a couple pages till I realized....

[skyeryder]

Originally posted by Fear250r
Don't remind me Dan!

I started reading a couple pages till I realized....

X2

[250rdrag]

i talked to joe byrd at unadilla mx races. his old 250r makes him sick. it handles and turns so much better than his 450. his wish would be to pull up to starting line with 350 poervalve quad. that says it all i think

[89trx250r]

as was stated in the post earlier half the kids these days wouldnt even have the balls to ride a 2 stroke and all the veterans and kids who grew up with the 250r (wimmer) would do so well it wouldnt be fair to the guys on production i really have a feeling the sport is digressing if you noticed the new walsh hybrid is slated as the re-revolution of hybrid atv's and they already said theyll make mounts etc to put any motor in there its not just a crf450r efi bike...Canam is the last factory money in our sport when thats gone its back to the hybrids and 250r's... and i personally cant wait it kinda sucks when me and my friend go to our local track and kids have no idea what we are riding...(he rides a walsh yz426 and i ride laeger 250r) sorry if im ranting :/

[250rsforlife]

Originally posted by 89trx250r
as was stated in the post earlier half the kids these days wouldnt even have the balls to ride a 2 stroke and all the veterans and kids who grew up with the 250r (wimmer) would do so well it wouldnt be fair to the guys on production i really have a feeling the sport is digressing if you noticed the new walsh hybrid is slated as the re-revolution of hybrid atv's and they already said theyll make mounts etc to put any motor in there its not just a crf450r efi bike...Canam is the last factory money in our sport when thats gone its back to the hybrids and 250r's... and i personally cant wait it kinda sucks when me and my friend go to our local track and kids have no idea what we are riding...(he rides a walsh yz426 and i ride laeger 250r) sorry if im ranting :/
totally agree most my friends didnt knw what i had till i told em and when the 250r does make its comeback all the older pros prolly still have theirs and will destroy anything they race with

[slamdak8782]

I know its old. I was doing some searching for old pictures of Tim Farr riding an R. I started reading this thread and I thought I would post it after I read the whole thing couldn't help putting my 2 cents in.

[slamdak8782]

I know its old. I was doing some searching for old pictures of Tim Farr riding an R. I started reading this thread and I thought I would post it after I read the whole thing couldn't help putting my 2 cents in.

[chickenhawk]

what i didnt here was why honda got away from the 250r. Lawsuits they werent alowed to build that bike 4 10 yrs and honda took the brunt of those suits kaw , suz all ran and left honda holding the bag hope this help some understanding

[deathman53]

no.......they VOLUNTARY said they wouldn't build or sell as new 3 WHEELED ATV'S for 10 yrs. There was nothing about 4 wheeled atv's. Honda was the first on to jump ship on the 250r, because of declining sales(88 & 89 250r's were in the showroom until mid 90's). Suzuki jumped in 92 w/ lt250, lt500 was gone in 90, kawi was gone in 88, declining sales and lots of left overs, yamaha was the only one who stuck w/ 2 strokes atv's and dirtbikes for the most parts. Yamaha still sells the banshee and blaster in europe. 2 stroke dirtbikes are still made for the USA also. The others make the 2 stroke dirtbikes in europe, yes they even make a cr250 w/ lighting coil and enduro/trail trim in europe. Yamaha sells the yz250 in the same trim. Yamaha sells the yz125 and yz250 and might sell the yz80 also, yes, in 2012.
Honda starting jumping ship on 250r parts in 05, there is several reasons. They did only still make most of the motor and brake parts and plastics in the late 90's, they were the only ones that sold. When honda came out w/ 04 450r, they didn't want to keep making parts for a 15 yr old atv that was competition to what they are making as new. New rules(the big 4 wanting to sell their new 4 strokes helped it along), ruled out the 250r's in pro classes, so 250r parts weren't inmuch demand anymore. When stock on the parts ran out, they didn't make them again. Its all about MONEY. 4 strokes are pushed so much because of that also, its cost 4-5 times as much to rebuild a 4 stroke in the long run. When the 250r motor needed work, most replaced what was needed and kept running it. With the 4 strokes, so much wore and it cost so much to do it that it made more sense to just buy a new motor or complete atv. Welcome to a throw-away society, don't fix what you got, don't make the parts to fix it, just throw it out and buy a new one. We are really moving ahead in life now!!!!!!!!!! Sorry, I will keep my 3 wheeled atv's, 250r's and 250r hybrids for as long as I can get parts or run out of parts for them.
If you want more inside of why the stop/slowdown of 250r's in the late 80's and concerning 3 wheeled atv's ask Black Sheep, he was invovled in racing back then, worked w/ honda and saw alot of stuff first hand. Let him put the real answer to most of what went on.