Honda says no.....

[Rich250RRacer]

I was at the International Motorcycle show in Cleveland today asking a few local dealers about the availability of an '07 kick-start 450R. The one dealer I talked to took me over to Honda's display to ask a few of the corporate reps about availability. These guys really wanted to know why I wanted a kick start, and I explained to them that I raced XC and didn't want the hassle of the slow starting electric. I told them that I would take an ER only if I absolutely had to and convert it over to kick. This is where it really got interesting, since they argued with me that there was NO possible way to do this. They said that along with the internals, the CDI would have to be changed since the kicker wouldn't turn the motor over fast enough with an ER CDI. According to them the ER CDI unit needs 750 rpm to make spark and the kicker just can't turn the motor over that fast (only about 350 rpm). Has anybody who has done the conversion had a problem starting or did you change the CDI also?

[trick250r]

from what ive heard, you dont need to change it... sounds like a bunch of BS to me.

[400exrider0004]

I converted and I didnt mess with the CDI. I never even really heard of that really. I havent had problems kicking it over:)

[lumi]

well i did hear once the cdi are different or something like that or the kicker revs faster..


cant give u a solid answer.


-lumi

[czrider263]

i easly converted my 06er into a kickstart and electric start.

[ricks450]

if the CDI needed 750 rpms to spark. the bike wouldnt run under 750 rpms. the bike wont idle at 700 rpms, BS man. the pulse generator is going to send a signal up everytime that motor makes one revolution. i havent never heard of that. that would mean the bike wouldnt start with a weak battery. IMO

[Rich250RRacer]

Originally posted by ricks450
if the CDI needed 750 rpms to spark. the bike wouldnt run under 750 rpms. the bike wont idle at 700 rpms, BS man. the pulse generator is going to send a signal up everytime that motor makes one revolution. i havent never heard of that. that would mean the bike wouldnt start with a weak battery. IMO

I understand what you're saying, but I know from first hand experience that a 250R will NOT make spark if you run the kicker through by hand, it takes a pretty good boot to show spark. Based on the info that they gave me, could a 450R CDI be the fix for slow starting ER's?

[quader400]

if this is the case would it be possible to put the kicker cdi on the electric starters and have it start easier?

[TURBO-530R]

WELL JUST A THOUGHT .I KNOW FIRST HAND THAT IT IS VERY VERY HARD TO START A EFI BIKE WITH KICK START FOR THE SAME REASON YOU TALKED ABOUT WITH THE REP. COULD HONDA BE GETTING US READY FOR AN EFI BIKE IN 08 HMMMM.

[Prey]

rick, i personally doubt these bikes will run at 700rpm, and incase you did not hear, there was an issue with honda releasing 450ERs with bad battery's and the machines would not start (after a few months of use). engine idle on these is supposed to be around 1600rpm, 750rpm is quite a bit less than 1/2 that.

as far as the pulse generator, it feeds the CDI, the CDI feeds the coil, the CDI is the final deciding factor in sending power to the coil or not

quader400, i maybe wrong on this, but i suspect the different rpms to start the kicker and the ER is related to the decompressed cylinder pressure each machine makes, the 450R is supposed to make around 115PSI decompressed (2006 450R) while the ER is only building up to 45PSI

i dont know why the kicker conversion on the ER works, maybe the ER has a different gear reduction from the starter to the crank than the kicker has from the kicker to the crank?

[Colby@C&DRacing]

I just completed a kicker conversion an 06 er the electric start works good on this bike after gettting the decomp set correctly but the kicker still starts it fast.:(

[kawabunga]

i have a question for the guys who converted their er's to kick-start. why didn't you just buy the kick-start model? why go through the hassle when you can just buy it that way? and it's cheaper

1. harder to find
2. nobody really knew at first that the starter was easily damaged by using throttle while pushing the magic button...and some of us would like to have both...i am considering the kicker parts myself

[stumpleg]

Originally posted by kawabunga
i have a question for the guys who converted their er's to kick-start. why didn't you just buy the kick-start model? why go through the hassle when you can just buy it that way? and it's cheaper

Because I can't kick :D

[Prey]

Originally posted by Colby@C&DRacing
I just completed a kicker conversion an 06 er the electric start works good on this bike after gettting the decomp set correctly but the kicker still starts it fast.:(

did you set the decomp IAW Honda's recommendation or is there a different reccomendation that comes with the kick start conversion?

and if it is set to honda recommendation, why do you think the kicker works so well with such a low amount of compression?

[CDCHONDAS]

just FYI Honda does use a different part number from the ER to R CDI. whether much is different I can't honestly answer but they are different part numbers.

[Rich250RRacer]

Originally posted by Prey
rick, i personally doubt these bikes will run at 700rpm, and incase you did not hear, there was an issue with honda releasing 450ERs with bad battery's and the machines would not start (after a few months of use). engine idle on these is supposed to be around 1600rpm, 750rpm is quite a bit less than 1/2 that.

as far as the pulse generator, it feeds the CDI, the CDI feeds the coil, the CDI is the final deciding factor in sending power to the coil or not

quader400, i maybe wrong on this, but i suspect the different rpms to start the kicker and the ER is related to the decompressed cylinder pressure each machine makes, the 450R is supposed to make around 115PSI decompressed (2006 450R) while the ER is only building up to 45PSI

i dont know why the kicker conversion on the ER works, maybe the ER has a different gear reduction from the starter to the crank than the kicker has from the kicker to the crank?

I'm just basing this on what the Honda reps told me. I know the conversion works. As far as what RPM they make spark, I don't know. But as it was said on here earlier, will a kicker CDI make an ER start faster? And, is it even possible to use it? The ER has the wire harness and micro-switch in the throttle, will this have any effect on the kicker CDI?

[400exrider0004]

At the time I didnt know the e-start was going to be such a hassle. I would of gone with the kicker but I cant see what is going to happen in the future. And nobody really knew that there was such a big problem at the time I purchased it:(

[firefighterjosh]

Man Cough yamaha cough hehe....

BUt I didn't notice if somones question was awnsered. Could putting a Kick start CDI box on a ER help the problem?

[Prey]

Originally posted by Rich250RRacer
I'm just basing this on what the Honda reps told me. I know the conversion works. As far as what RPM they make spark, I don't know. But as it was said on here earlier, will a kicker CDI make an ER start faster? And, is it even possible to use it? The ER has the wire harness and micro-switch in the throttle, will this have any effect on the kicker CDI?

I guess what i was trying to say and didnt do a very good job of, is that even if the 450R CDI would work in the 450ER (which IDK if it will or not) IMO i dont think it would make any difference, i was trying to say with the motor being so low on compression that i think it needs to turn that fast to start.

[CDCHONDAS]

^^^^^^^^thats my take on it.

[ricks450]

i dont think the 04/05 kicker cdi will work on the 07er. and even if it would run on the 04/05 cdi, it would change the rev limit and timing. i dont think honda made two differant cdi's just to convert the 07'er to kicker. i didnt know the decompressions where set so differant between the bikes. i guess they set the decompression that low to make it easier on the starter. i have a tech on my 05 and it would idle in the 600's but it lope like he!! and would stall out anything under that because of the duration on the cam not the spark. i doubt the cdi is got to see a sertain amount of rpms and then it send a signal to the coil. if its turning fast enough to generate power it going to spark. its been alittle while but from what i rember you couldnt adjust the decompression release on my 05. i rember the decompression release just being a bolt on - bolt off, wieght assembly on camshaft. might be wrong thow. i agree with the decompression being the problem with the starting issue. with the compression that low you would have to kick the he!! out it to get it to start. like i said before not sure but if you can ajust the decompression release i would but if you cant i would see if the 04/05 decompression release would fit on the 07er camshaft.:D

[KrazyKeith]

What about the CRF450X it has electric and kick. SO what is the difference? These electric starters are junk!! It is a fact . I have been talking to honda trying to get the kicker parts for free and they told me they dont recomend putting a kicker on with the electric. WTF. They should figure out the problem and fix all our bikes. I love my Honda but I'm a little tired of fixing my starter. And I really hate to say this and I can't help it but those 07 LE YF'S are lookin pretty good.

[ricks450]

Originally posted by KrazyKeith
What about the CRF450X it has electric and kick. SO what is the difference? These electric starters are junk!! It is a fact . I have been talking to honda trying to get the kicker parts for free and they told me they dont recomend putting a kicker on with the electric. WTF. They should figure out the problem and fix all our bikes. I love my Honda but I'm a little tired of fixing my starter. And I really hate to say this and I can't help it but those 07 LE YF'S are lookin pretty good. sounds to me there are not trying to give out free kicker parts.

[byrdman37876]

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idiots. never want to stand behind there mistakes.( or in front either ).

[bradley300]

Originally posted by ricks450
i dont think the 04/05 kicker cdi will work on the 07er. and even if it would run on the 04/05 cdi, it would change the rev limit and timing. i dont think honda made two differant cdi's just to convert the 07'er to kicker. i didnt know the decompressions where set so differant between the bikes. i guess they set the decompression that low to make it easier on the starter. i have a tech on my 05 and it would idle in the 600's but it lope like he!! and would stall out anything under that because of the duration on the cam not the spark. i doubt the cdi is got to see a sertain amount of rpms and then it send a signal to the coil. if its turning fast enough to generate power it going to spark. its been alittle while but from what i rember you couldnt adjust the decompression release on my 05. i rember the decompression release just being a bolt on - bolt off, wieght assembly on camshaft. might be wrong thow. i agree with the decompression being the problem with the starting issue. with the compression that low you would have to kick the he!! out it to get it to start. like i said before not sure but if you can ajust the decompression release i would but if you cant i would see if the 04/05 decompression release would fit on the 07er camshaft.:D

it IS a seperate cdi between the 06 kicker and e-start