CELL PHONE (FBI can listen even when phone is turned off)

[red2004 TRX450R]

WOW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O61YfvPZGJs&eurl=

[<DRS>GPF]

i agree.. WOW!..


not that i care if the FBI is listening(nothin to hide here..) but if its there and available.. how long before some "fart smeller" figures out how to exploit it?:confused:

[ATV Chic]

That's *****d up right there. I don't even know what to say about that....:mad: :cuss: :huh

They're right. Our freedom is slipping away:grr:

when will peple learn that all we are is just slaves to the system...question though.....does this work on older cell phones? the only phones i get are older used ones....

If anyone remmeber my grandpa still has what they call a "bag phone" its like the first cell phone only you carry it in a bag, the trick is that they canot shut off a bag phone unless you choose to....but you cant acctivate one that has already been shut off

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by Honda86
when will peple learn that all we are is just slaves to the system...question though.....does this work on older cell phones? the only phones i get are older used ones....

If anyone remmeber my grandpa still has what they call a "bag phone" its like the first cell phone only you carry it in a bag, the trick is that they canot shut off a bag phone unless you choose to....but you cant acctivate one that has already been shut off


Haha I just threw out one that was in our garage.... I finally convinced my dad to get a newer cell phone.

[shano]

I wonder if they do this to canadians also?

[gbcap]

they must obtain a search warrant...

if you dn't have a gps phone (which isn't many anymore) you don't have to worry about it.

if you have nothing to hide, why are you worried about it?

[czrider263]

THATS MESSED UP

but i don't have to worry about it my phone is so beat up that the battery DOESN'T stay on LOOL

[nowukno]

That's just crazy....:huh

[JJs450r]

haha they just wanna tape in on peoples phone sex convos horny b^$t@R|) lol

[NPelletier]

the govt agrivates me...its annoying, but i dont care, im not going to anything illegal so i dont care :devil:

[400EXtreme]

thats just wierd

[YZ400EX]

They say they use the GPS on the phone to locate and activate the mic on the phone.. if the "location" feature on the phone is turned off or disabled the GPS does not work.. I wonder if this would prevent this from happening

[1fst400]

Like <DRS>GPF said. How long till some computer geak figures out how to do it and listens to random ppl. Then the computer geek decices to start stalking ppl and crap.
Thats just not right.

[red2004 TRX450R]

this is tracking software

https://www.vzwchaperone.com/landing

it also works good for catching cheating partners. "I have to work late for the rest of the year - - then you can tell them at 5pm you leave and go to 123 main street every day for 3 hours."""" or call them at ask where they are at when you already know, and see what they say!!!! :eek:

the cell phone companies and the government can send and install software and change phone setting remotely!!!

I hope people really don't learn how to hack in to cell networks!!

I do nothing wrong but I don't want people to have the ability to track me and hear my conversations.

more info
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/12/can_you_hear_me.html

[WhiteYFZ]

this gov't is fu*ked up man.. there so nosy..

[sandmanblue]

Originally posted by WhiteYFZ
this gov't is fu*ked up man.. there so nosy..

Who else would you want to find the scumbags that are intent on blowing people up? Mr. Rogers?


If you have nothing to hide, then this will not affect you.

If you think that your life cannot be examined by law enforcement, then neither can the terrorists's lives. I bet that doesn't sound too good to anybody here...

Would you rather feel safe, or have your phone conversations listened to.

Better yet, how should law enforcement find the bad guys? What's the solution if this is so terrible?


It's easy to criticize, but quite difficult to offer solutions....

[swampfoxsc]

Originally posted by sandmanblue
Who else would you want to find the scumbags that are intent on blowing people up? Mr. Rogers?


If you have nothing to hide, then this will not affect you.

If you think that your life cannot be examined by law enforcement, then neither can the terrorists's lives. I bet that doesn't sound too good to anybody here...

Would you rather feel safe, or have your phone conversations listened to.

Better yet, how should law enforcement find the bad guys? What's the solution if this is so terrible?


It's easy to criticize, but quite difficult to offer solutions....



That attitude right there is downright frightening. Giving up your freedom for a little bit of perceived safety is the beginning of the end of all of your freedoms. I seriously hope Americans don't continue to fall into this trap. It's a textbook blueprint for a tyrannical government. History has taught us that. Under no circumstances should we accept government intrusion into our lives on this scale. America is being slowly indoctrinated. :mad:

[WhiteYFZ]

Originally posted by swampfoxsc
That attitude right there is downright frightening. Giving up your freedom for a little bit of perceived safety is the beginning of the end of all of your freedoms. I seriously hope Americans don't continue to fall into this trap. It's a textbook blueprint for a tyrannical government. History has taught us that. Under no circumstances should we accept government intrusion into our lives on this scale. America is being slowly indoctrinated. :mad:


thank you!

[AtvMxRider]

Originally posted by gbcap

if you have nothing to hide, why are you worried about it?


Agreed:macho

[400eXr1d3rZ]

It's not a matter of having nothing to hide, it's freedom. They shouldn't do that.

[honduh440]

comming from a technical rep for t-mobile i can assure you that with sim card phones it cant be done. not sure on other phones

you guys are so dumb. this topic has been argued on the national level, argueing on this point on the internet really is dumb. we have debates in class about giving up rights for security. majority said they'd give up freedoms to be safe, but honestly, you do realize it is nothing major. if you have nothing to hide, you should NOT worry whatsoever. the government isnt out to get you, and they arent looking to take away all your rights whatsoever. they have more important things, such as the war in iraq, and listening in on phone calls is just going to help things for the US. and besides, they arent listening to a 15 year old talk with his girlfriend on the phone, they are going to be tapping into lines of suspects, gang members, etc. in order to stop crime and terrorism in our country. and if you do not like the way our government is ran, THEN LEAVE! i heard canada has room up there for some people

:mad: :cuss: :o


you can disagree with me and all that, but im not going to argue. i'd like to hear what you have to say if you disagree, but i will not argue back, it will get ridiculous

[Rastus]

^^^ Oh boy, the dreaded "if you don't like it, then leave." Are you old enough to vote? :rolleyes: That way of thinking doesn't help or solve anything, it just makes you look foolish.


I agree that I have nothing to hide, but is the gov't playing by the rules and respecting privacy here? Sure, it would be easy for them to have something covert like this that citizens don't know about, but this is just blatant. I guess they missed the 5th on this one.

Does the gov't care about rights anymore? No, they don't. At the rate we're loosing them, I'm going to oppose as many new threats as I can. The people reading this should consider what effect their vote has, and whether the people you're putting in office will do the job correctly and protect the rights we still have.

[WhiteYFZ]

Originally posted by 400eXr1d3rZ
It's not a matter of having nothing to hide, it's freedom. They shouldn't do that.

they can listen to me all they want.. i have nothing to hid im just saying, its just the principle..

Only time I used my cell phone

1. Talk to parents
2. Talk to friends
3. Slowly becoming a player (work in progress)

What I don't use my cell phone for

1. Planning attacks
2. Starting gangs
3. Talking about doing stuff that could land me in jail

And yes. I would give up SOME of my freedom to feel safe again. And if you don't...Then jump infront of me in line when a terrorist is dropping a bomb at us.

[stalefish_132]

ahh I love Canada, at least here in BC most of the time you cant get cell reseption anyway so....

i find that pretty dumb that they are listening in on people's convo's but i guess that what has to be done. better than having some rag head kill a bunch of people.

i don;t even own a cell phone anyway so how are they going to listen in on me talking to myself?:devious:

[byrdman37876]

damn......so much for the moon shine still.:D

[Architects]

Personally I think the news is HYPE. They blow everything way out of proportion. Ill just unplug my battery. Problem solved

[sly400ex]

It's an invasion of privacy, plain and simple. Who cares if you're not do anything illegal, technology like that falling into the wrong hands could be disasterous.

Call me un-patriotic or whatever, but there are TOO many things wrong with our goverment, US is not perfect by any means.

Originally posted by sly400ex
It's an invasion of privacy, plain and simple. Who cares if you're not do anything illegal, technology like that falling into the wrong hands could be disasterous.

Call me un-patriotic or whatever, but there are TOO many things wrong with our goverment, US is not perfect by any means.

we are the best off over any other country, but still not perfect by like you said.

[sandmanblue]

Again - all the critics of this don't have a solution. I am so sick of ppl not being willing to solve problems, yet so willing to biotsch and moan about them.


Let's take the devil's advocate approach. Let's just say that we keep all cell phones and telephones and internet and any other type of communication totally private. It would then be SOO easy for not only terrorists, but organized crime, pedophiles, you name it, to organize all sorts of illegal and potentially catastrophic events - all with your blessing!

Yes. YOUR BLESSING.

You might as well say that YOUR safety and the safety of YOUR neighbors is less important than your conversations over GOVERMNENT controlled airways. Remeber, the FCC governs all airwave communication, and therefore can do what they want, INCLUDING outlawing cell phones and all sorts of radios in the national interest. Your desire for privacy might very well take away the things you perceive to be your rights, but are in reality benefits granted to you in the trust that you will use them wisely.


Give up a little freedom. BS. I want to be able to feel free to walk the streets of our major cities and not wonder if some scumbag is plotting to blow me and my family up.


The whole ACLU attitude that you can't impede on anything I do, and you have to conform to what I want YOU to do is total BS. THAT is what is taking away our way of life....

YOUR selfish desires for so called freedom are endangering MY life, and since I don't trust YOU to take out the bad guys, I will be damned if I will let YOU stop the good guys from helping ME to be safe!!!

[Rastus]

Way to make a hasty generalization sandman, I'm sure we all believe in what the ACLU is doing. :rolleyes:


Do you really think that you're safe all the time? At any moment anyone that wants to get in this nation, all they have to do is walk over our southern border. I'd be more afraid of a bad neighborhood or gangs walking around in a major city, not someone trying to blow something up.


At any moment anyone of us could loose our life by something not at all close to terrorism. Contrary to popular belief, we aren't always safe here at home.


But I suppose since I believe the gov't shouldn't be snooping into everyones personal lives and things, that I agree with rapers and terrorists. :rolleyes:



Ask yourself this. Would the founding fathers agree to things of this nature and the patriot act, along with the suspension of habeas corpus?

[rollie]

do people honestly think the government is going to get a search warrant and listen in on random peoples like you and I's sell phone calls, doubt it, its for terrorism and gangs as people allready stated in this thread, and if they need a search warrant, then how is that an invasion of privacy? they wont waste there time listening to you ask your wife what she wants for dinner, listening to you ask your buddy if he wants to go ridin, that what i think people dont understand

Originally posted by Rastus
Way to make a hasty generalization sandman, I'm sure we all believe in what the ACLU is doing. :rolleyes:


Do you really think that you're safe all the time? At any moment anyone that wants to get in this nation, all they have to do is walk over our southern border. I'd be more afraid of a bad neighborhood or gangs walking around in a major city, not someone trying to blow something up.


At any moment anyone of us could loose our life by something not at all close to terrorism. Contrary to popular belief, we aren't always safe here at home.


But I suppose since I believe the gov't shouldn't be snooping into everyones personal lives and things, that I agree with rapers and terrorists. :rolleyes:



Ask yourself this. Would the founding fathers agree to things of this nature and the patriot act, along with the suspension of habeas corpus?

so everything our founding fathers said should still be in effect? do you realize HOW MUCH stuff has changed in the world since the constitution was made. please. let the government do their job. they know how to do it. if you'd like to help, or if you are so smart, go run for any type of office

Originally posted by Rastus
Ask yourself this. Would the founding fathers agree to things of this nature and the patriot act, along with the suspension of habeas corpus?

It's not the late 1700s anymore...When they made the constitution and bill of rights...Did they honestly think that there would be an invention like the cell phone? No.

Like the last person said...Why would the government want to listen in on your conversation with your family if you're doing nothing wrong? The government isn't doing it to bully you around, they're doing it for your safety. But then again, why would we want protection? We're the United States of America...We can do anything we want, even defend ourselves against others who disagrees with our ways. Maybe it's not right to most people...But the congress does have the right to make laws in time of need, and I'm pretty sure...This is a time of need.

Originally posted by mjpridered10
so everything our founding fathers said should still be in effect? do you realize HOW MUCH stuff has changed in the world since the constitution was made. please. let the government do their job. they know how to do it. if you'd like to help, or if you are so smart, go run for any type of office

No...We should do everything our founding fathers wanted...No rights for African Americans or women. But then again, the government is "the man". They're only out to get us in the end. :rolleyes:

[Rastus]

Originally posted by MrMan
No...We should do everything our founding fathers wanted...No rights for African Americans or women. But then again, the government is "the man". They're only out to get us in the end. :rolleyes:



Hmm..., maybe you should read the documents they wrote? I don't see anything that says rights for white men only.

I never said we should do everything the founding fathers wanted, but would they agree with the goverment overstepping what is already in place? The way you talk, we should just throw away the constitution and bill of rights without much thought because "they made it in the late 1700s"

And I never said that they cared about our conversations. Just because we don't plan bombings doesn't mean the government gets a free card to snoop around in everyones stuff.

Don't kid yourself, the system will be abused.

I can't believe people feel so good about throwing freedoms away. :ermm:

Originally posted by Rastus
Hmm..., maybe you should read the documents they wrote? I don't see anything that says rights for white men only.

I never said we should do everything the founding fathers wanted, but would they agree with the goverment overstepping what is already in place? The way you talk, we should just throw away the constitution and bill of rights without much thought because "they made it in the late 1700s"

And I never said that they cared about our conversations. Just because we don't plan bombings doesn't mean the government gets a free card to snoop around in everyones stuff.

Don't kid yourself, the system will be abused.

I can't believe people feel so good about throwing freedoms away. :ermm:

im sure you can get freedoms in better places...like iraq. i suggest you go there!

[300exryder]

I'm not sure where I stand in this debate, but I do believe that something needs to be done to avoid rampant abuse of technology for evil purposes.

I often wonder how the world would be different if there were far fewer people (I'm thinking back in the millions and not billions). Sliding away into the world and becoming a number rather than a person would be much more difficult. Keeping tabs on questionable people would be much easier, and I am fairly confident that issues of security would diminish.

Seeing as how 6 billion people aren't about to disappear, stronger measures are called for to ensure not only our safety, but the general well being of our planet.

[wvspeedfreak]

Which is better...U.S. Cellular or Cingular?

Originally posted by wvspeedfreak
Which is better...U.S. Cellular or Cingular?

none...verizon is the best

[CDALEMX301]

Do you think there is someone sitting behind a desk listening to every convo out there or record every convo taking place i think not...the government doesnt wanna waste there time on us...if you give them a reason to listen or use the gps then they will but other wise they dont give two ***** about you

[knighttime]

i can maybe understand the FBI monitoring calls of people they consider dangerous, but to be able to use peoples phone as a listening device when they arent even using it is a joke. If they can do that, imagine what can be next.:uhoh: :cuss:

[Rastus]

Originally posted by mjpridered10
im sure you can get freedoms in better places...like iraq. i suggest you go there!


Your level of maturity astounds me. :rolleyes:

How old are you again? If you can't provide anything to prove me wrong, then why do you keep posting?


My problem with things of this nature is that they pose a greater threat to abuse, than they have in a true benefit. I don't have anything to hide, but I'm not about to let the government get away with everything. Do you guys never question the government?

[knighttime]

some of these guys sound like gov't drones :mad:

[Rastus]

Originally posted by knighttime
some of these guys sound like gov't drones :mad:

Exactly. :(

[atvRiDa400ex]

freedom has already slipped away! WTF:huh :mad:

[Rastus]

Someone posted this on another forum I frequent. I can't find any untruths, can you?

"We currently live in an America where the government can read our email, wiretap our phones, read our snailmail, stop by and break into our homes to look around when we aren't there, all without a warrant. AND created a whole new category that any American citizen can be placed in, where they can be held incommunicado indefinitely without access to a lawyer or even knowing the charges against them. Check that old Bill of Rights. Its as if they are crossing them off as they go along."


Which reminds me, do any of you guys have music on your PC that may not be purchased legally? So is the idea of the gov't coming into your house and looking around without a warrant a good idea? *Remember*, it's for your own safety though. :rolleyes:

dude, your starting to piss me off. just leave it alone. they arent going to be searching your house, or listening to your phone calls, or tracking your emails, if you have done nothing wrong in the past. just drop it!

[96lapis coupe]

please. let the government do their job. they know how to do it. That's the funniest thing I've read in a while.

"Those who would give up Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

[Rastus]

Originally posted by mjpridered10
dude, your starting to piss me off. just leave it alone. they arent going to be searching your house, or listening to your phone calls, or tracking your emails, if you have done nothing wrong in the past. just drop it!


Sure, they won't be listening in if I or someone else always does what they want. The minute I or someone else doesn't do what they want, they can FIND something to nail us with that isn't at all related to terrorism. With this, they can lock me/someone else up for however long they want without a trial. That's not at all frightening to you?


Here's some food for thought. What if the Germans had questioned their government in the early-mid thirties? What if they had actually taken seriously who they were electing and what was going on? Is it safe to say that 11 million people who were systematically murdered might not have died, along with all those lost in the war? Millions upon millions lost, all because of complacency, apathy, and going along with everything the gov't says. :(

[knighttime]

Originally posted by mjpridered10
dude, your starting to piss me off. just leave it alone. they arent going to be searching your house, or listening to your phone calls, or tracking your emails, if you have done nothing wrong in the past. just drop it!

yeah right, your above story is a fairy tale.

what about the invasion act that was passed or whatever? where they can come into your home and take whoever they want with no reason what so ever...the government is getting really bad...this whole world is just about control and money...why do you think they enforce all this seatbelt BS, it isnt for our safty, its all about the money

[atvRiDa400ex]

Originally posted by 96lapis coupe
That's the funniest thing I've read in a while.

"Those who would give up Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

hell yea he knows what hes talkin about! :chinese:

Originally posted by knighttime
yeah right, your above story is a fairy tale.


whats my story...?

Originally posted by knighttime
yeah right, your above story is a fairy tale.


whats my story...?

[knighttime]

Originally posted by mjpridered10
they arent going to be searching your house, or listening to your phone calls, or tracking your emails, if you have done nothing wrong in the past. just drop it!

fairy tail is above; just because you have done nothing wrong before has nothing to do with it. with some of the new post 9/11 laws, you dont need to do anything wrong for them to do what you say they cant.:eek2:

[red2004 TRX450R]

Originally posted by 96lapis coupe


"Those who would give up Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin



Main Entry: lib·er·ty

1 : the quality or state of being free: a : the power to do as one pleases b : freedom from physical restraint c : freedom from arbitrary or despotic control d : the positive enjoyment of various social, political, or economic rights and privileges e : the power of choice
2 a : a right or immunity enjoyed by prescription or by grant : PRIVILEGE b : permission especially to go freely within specified limits
3 : an action going beyond normal limits: as a : a breach of etiquette or propriety : FAMILIARITY b : RISK, CHANCE <took foolish liberties with his health> c : a violation of rules or a deviation from standard practice d : a distortion of fact
4 : a short authorized absence from naval duty usually for less than 48 hours
synonym see FREEDOM
- at liberty
1 : FREE
2 : at leisure : UNOCCUPIED



Main Entry: civil liberty

: freedom from arbitrary governmental interference (as with the right of free speech) specifically by denial of governmental power and in the United States especially as guaranteed by the Bill of Rights -- usually used in plural


FOR THEM TO TAP YOUR PHONE IT HAS TO BE CORT ORDERED, FOR NOW!!

PROTECT YOU RIGHTS !!!!!

[MentalState]

Bah! I work for the people that are always working for you...Can you hear me now....I work in the switch...I can tell you That they can not do this without a warrent... And they cant do this without my help...So to say the FBI can do this anytime they want is BS...

I help FBI CIA and local cops bust people on a weekly basis...

So if you have a cell phone Dont worry about anything unless you are selling guns or drugs in mass quanitys......


Now the GPS thing is a diffrent story if you have it activated and someone has your phone number you can be tracked by almost anyone...

Originally posted by MentalState
Bah! I work for the people that are always working for you...Can you hear me now....I work in the switch...I can tell you That they can not do this without a warrent... And they cant do this without my help...So to say the FBI can do this anytime they want is BS...

I help FBI CIA and local cops bust people on a weekly basis...

So if you have a cell phone Dont worry about anything unless you are selling guns or drugs in mass quanitys......


Now the GPS thing is a diffrent story if you have it activated and someone has your phone number you can be tracked by almost anyone...

They're not going to take what you've said into consideration because they're stuck on the "The Man is against me" thought.

I'll repost what has been posted atleast 4-5 times in this thread.

IF YOU ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG, YOU SHOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM. If you're so eager to defend your rights as small as the government not being able to eavesdrop in on your conversation...Start reading up on politics now.

Originally posted by mjpridered10
dude, your starting to piss me off. just leave it alone. they arent going to be searching your house, or listening to your phone calls, or tracking your emails, if you have done nothing wrong in the past. just drop it!


yep...just ask all those guys in guatanamo bay, that have been in jail for 6 years now w/o being charged with anything, but hey they are of middle eastern decent, or hispanic or whatever, as long as it isn't you or your family its ok by you huh?they must have done something wrong....ya ok...remember this people when you give up a right to the government, you never get it back! if you've done nothing wrong then why are they listening? are they waiting for you to do something? and who gets to decide what's wrong? them? nieve, very nieve...


rastus i wanna buy you a beer!!

[sandmanblue]

Originally posted by dlerch
yep...just ask all those guys in guatanamo bay, that have been in jail for 6 years now w/o being charged with anything, but hey they are of middle eastern decent, or hispanic or whatever, as long as it isn't you or your family its ok by you huh?they must have done something wrong....ya ok...remember this people when you give up a right to the government, you never get it back! if you've done nothing wrong then why are they listening? are they waiting for you to do something? and who gets to decide what's wrong? them? nieve, very nieve...


rastus i wanna buy you a beer!!

Yep, and I'm sure you have proof that those guys are completely innocent and would have never blown anybody up too....

Let's see, either we take your word on it, or we take the word of a heck of a lot a people in our government whose sole purpose is to put the bad guys away. That's a tough one. :rolleyes:

Go hug a tree...

[sandmanblue]

I have another issue with the lib stance on this topic.

It has been shown that libs LOVE government control. They want the gov to control things like healthcare, welfare, social security, minimum wages, and just about every other thing that moves in the US, yet when it comes to providing for the common defense, ensuring the safety of its citizens, protecting our borders, and ensuring that the bad guys are found BEFORE bad things happen, libs want no gov at all. Heck, they'd rather wave at the terrorists as they walk up to another building, then blame Bush as then help the bad guys push the detonator button.


It's as if foreign born terrorists have brainwashed a whole bunch of people in the US into believing that the US will be safer if there is no one protecting them.

God help us all! That's right! GOD - that other little item the libs can't stand to have around....

Originally posted by sandmanblue
I have another issue with the lib stance on this topic.

It has been shown that libs LOVE government control. They want the gov to control things like healthcare, welfare, social security, minimum wages, and just about every other thing that moves in the US, yet when it comes to providing for the common defense, ensuring the safety of its citizens, protecting our borders, and ensuring that the bad guys are found BEFORE bad things happen, libs want no gov at all. Heck, they'd rather wave at the terrorists as they walk up to another building, then blame Bush as then help the bad guys push the detonator button.


It's as if foreign born terrorists have brainwashed a whole bunch of people in the US into believing that the US will be safer if there is no one protecting them.

God help us all! That's right! GOD - that other little item the libs can't stand to have around....

I wouldn't even consider most of the people in this thread liberals. One liberal brings up a decent point and random people jump on the bandwagon.

Originally posted by sandmanblue
Yep, and I'm sure you have proof that those guys are completely innocent and would have never blown anybody up too....

Let's see, either we take your word on it, or we take the word of a heck of a lot a people in our government whose sole purpose is to put the bad guys away. That's a tough one. :rolleyes:

Go hug a tree...

no i have no proof of anything...but obviosly the government has no proof of anything either, or they would be CHARGED!!! like i said "as long as it's not you" who cares about THAT guys rights...well we'll see what you say when it's you...or your family...or one of your friends...yeah and if the government has them locked up they must be guilty...gimme a break!!

Originally posted by sandmanblue
I have another issue with the lib stance on this topic.

It has been shown that libs LOVE government control. They want the gov to control things like healthcare, welfare, social security, minimum wages, and just about every other thing that moves in the US, yet when it comes to providing for the common defense, ensuring the safety of its citizens, protecting our borders, and ensuring that the bad guys are found BEFORE bad things happen, libs want no gov at all. Heck, they'd rather wave at the terrorists as they walk up to another building, then blame Bush as then help the bad guys push the detonator button.


It's as if foreign born terrorists have brainwashed a whole bunch of people in the US into believing that the US will be safer if there is no one protecting them.

God help us all! That's right! GOD - that other little item the libs can't stand to have around....

talking about brainwashed..:rolleyes: you've just regurgitated what every extreme right republican has said....as far as health care etc...where do you get the word "control" from? offering different programs to those of us that can't afford some of those things otherwise, i don't see how that's "control"? do some people abuse those programs, of course....kinda like the super-rich abuse the tax laws....and another thing i can't think of a bigger "control" on a populas than; listening to their private conversations w/o their knowledge, the ability to lock them up w/o charging them with a crime, unwarranted search and seizures of their property, and just about anything in the patriot act, now that's control!!!:ermm:

[Rastus]

Wow, I thought this thread had died. I guess not. :) Little bit of a rant here, but some people think everyone goes along with party politics.


As far as being a Lib goes, I am not one. I DON'T want universal healthcare, or higher minimum wages, or more entitlements. I think the people that get Welfare should get it as a food discount, or put in a system where they can't suck off of taxpaying citizens forever. Universal free healthcare will be anything but free, and we already know who will end up paying for it all. The care we will get will be much lower quality than we have now, and I hope you like waiting in line, because we will be doing that alot. America needs LESS gov't control, not more. But, the party that promises the most free stuff will win. A democracy lasts until voters realize they can vote themselves free stuff out of public funds.

As far as defense, heck yea, get our guys the best weapons and equipment there is. Do what has to be done, alot less oversight from the U.N would be great. If our guys see something bad going on they should be able to engage it, not wait until they're being fired upon. Crap like that is stupid. If Iranians want to come to Iraq to cause trouble, shoot them as well. They won't be able to cry that we shot their units, they were in IRAQI boundaries.
I understand the importance of a stable Iraq, and it provides strategic advantage over would-be foes. A nuclear or chemical device in the hands of terrorists is not acceptable.


Citizens should be able to own whatever firearm they want, Full-autos included. The 2nd gives us every right to. Look at Sweden and Switzerland as examples.

Illegal Immigration should be a no brainer. Close the border, and give the illegals NOTHING. There's a legal way to do everything, and they're starting out on the wrong foot doing something illegal. It's not uncommon to see folks who have paid into the system for twenty to thirty years with no SS benefits, but we're actually thinking about giving SS and other entitlements to illegals!?




With that said, legal U.S. citizens should not have their rights taken away. I'm sure there are private programs that eavesdrop and do other intrusions, but to openly state you listen in means you are trying to blanket a large number of people, not a small number of possible terrorists.


MrMan, how is invasion of privacy a SMALL right? I guess you missed the fourth and fifth amendments.



If you give Gov't the power to do something, they WILL do it. If you know of one instance where the federal gov't had the power to do something and then didn't, please post it up.

Heck, the gov't doesn't really need the power to do something now that I think of it. Do any of you remember in History class when all the Japanese citizens on the West coast were detained, rounded up, moved to the desert, and kept in big camps? ( You were probably sleeping, no one seems to think History has any merit. )
They were U.S. citizens, but they were such a security risk that they had to be put in camps? Give me a break. OUR government did that, and you still want to accept everything they do blindly?




New initatives like this are an invasion of privacy and are unconstitutional as written, END OF STORY. You cannot refute that.

Originally posted by Rastus
MrMan, how is invasion of privacy a SMALL right? I guess you missed the fourth and fifth amendments.


The constitution protects the right of the person. Not the machine. A cell phone is your property, and don't start to tell me that the government doesn't have any control over it.

[Rastus]

Originally posted by MrMan
The constitution protects the right of the person. Not the machine. A cell phone is your property, and don't start to tell me that the government doesn't have any control over it.


So just because something is regulated by the FCC, that means they own supposed "machine" and all rights to its use? :rolleyes:

Do you have any idea how many devices are regulated, or have regulations on them, by the FCC?

Originally posted by Rastus
So just because something is regulated by the FCC, that means they own supposed "machine" and all rights to its use? :rolleyes:

A cell phone is a piece of property. Nothing more. So yes, the government has SOME ownership over it. And the only reason why you can use a cell phone...Is because the government allows it.


Do you have any idea how many devices are regulated, or have regulations on them, by the FCC?

This has to do with...What?

[Rastus]

Originally posted by MrMan
A cell phone is a piece of property. Nothing more. So yes, the government has SOME ownership over it. And the only reason why you can use a cell phone...Is because the government allows it.



This has to do with...What? [/B]


By your way of thinking, everything that is regulated by the FCC/gov't can be taken and we have no further say as to its use. It's a piece of property, as you said yourself.

Originally posted by Rastus
By your way of thinking, everything that is regulated by the FCC/gov't can be taken and we have no further say as to its use. It's a piece of property, as you said yourself.

No, the way you're putting it is that the government is pretty much a bully on bigger standards. Takes from the weak and poor, and helps out the richer and more powerful people. When in fact, it's not really like that. If someone is doing something they're not suppose to...Expect them to get searched.

If the government thinks that someone is doing something illegal...Don't expect them to sit back and wait until they do it so they have visual proof for you.

Congress has the right to make laws when we are in a war. Not laws to harm or hurt us...But laws to protect us.

Originally posted by MrMan

Congress has the right to make laws when we are in a war. Not laws to harm or hurt us...But laws to protect us.

i guess as long as you're one of the "us" everything is peachy..:rolleyes:

here's what everyone has to understand; when you take rights away from people illegally, (which is what unwarranted wire taps, and imprisoning w/o charging is) even if the person is breaking the law, you are also taking rights away from people not breaking the law too...if you can't see the bigger picture, which is just because it hasn't effected you yet, doesn't mean it won't!! and if it's let go while it is happening to someone else, by the time it does get to you or someone you do care about, the damage will be done....

[Rastus]

Originally posted by MrMan
No, the way you're putting it is that the government is pretty much a bully on bigger standards. Takes from the weak and poor, and helps out the richer and more powerful people. When in fact, it's not really like that. If someone is doing something they're not suppose to...Expect them to get searched.

If the government thinks that someone is doing something illegal...Don't expect them to sit back and wait until they do it so they have visual proof for you.

Congress has the right to make laws when we are in a war. Not laws to harm or hurt us...But laws to protect us.


I'm not sure what you're talking about at the beginning of your post...? Who defines what's "good" and what's "bad"? If the court doesn't decide on it, and no official person decides on it, then is it safe to say the large bureacracy determines who gets tapped or not? The term "domestic terrorist" can be stretched to fit a lot of things, this is what has me worried. Who determines what kind of person is a domestic terrorist? I would bet money on this term being abused, and prosecutors will try to make it stick in situations where it shouldn't be used.


The system of catching citizen bad guys that was in place before worked quite well, it requires a warrant. Is it too much to ask for a warrant to safe-gaurd citizens rights, or are they too busy? If they're such important targets, then why can they not get enough information for a warrant to search their things? :ermm:

[knighttime]

Originally posted by MrMan

Congress has the right to make laws when we are in a war. Not laws to harm or hurt us...But laws to protect us.

thats strictly an opinion, not a fact. when you consider all the corruption in the gov't, i dont know how you could think the way you do.

Originally posted by knighttime
thats strictly an opinion, not a fact. when you consider all the corruption in the gov't, i dont know how you could think the way you do.

No...I'm pretty sure it's a fact.

[knighttime]

Originally posted by MrMan
No...I'm pretty sure it's a fact.

lmao, maybe you should be more sure, lol

Originally posted by knighttime
thats strictly an opinion, not a fact. when you consider all the corruption in the gov't, i dont know how you could think the way you do.

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

Taken straight from the constitution. Wording is different, but same point behind it. It's from Section 8 in Article 1 "Scope of Legislative Power".

I think the way I do because even though the government is corrupt...They're treating the citizens ALOT better than any other country. As much as some deny it, you'd think it was a dictatorship.

[knighttime]

Originally posted by MrMan

I think the way I do because even though the government is corrupt...They're treating the citizens ALOT better than any other country. As much as some deny it, you'd think it was a dictatorship.

:confused:

Originally posted by knighttime
:confused:

:confused:

[Rastus]

BUT, that doesn't give Congress the power to pass any kind of law they want. There's a system of checks and balances for a reason.

Also, to run for a major office you either need a massive support group or you need to be majorly rich already. Alot of times, you need both.


If the government is corrupt then what gives it any kind of credibility, and why do we trust it so much? Too many people accept everything that is said without thinking much about it.

Somehow..., I don't think corrupt government and rights to citizens mixes well. They're polar opposites. :ermm: