400ex Re-model w/ engine rebuild PICTURES

[kalebarellano]

I am in the process of remodeling my 400ex. I just bought it about a week ago, and it was kind of ruff.

Here is a list of things I am doing to it:
-406 bore
-86mm wiseco piston
-crf cam chain
-replacing valve seals (The problematic ones, I believe they are called valve stem seals?)
-Sand blasting frame and painting with PJ1 frame primer, gloss black paint, and clear coat
-E-brake block off and some other little extras

Anything else I should replace or check?

The engine has alot of clay stains as you can see in the pics. I have tried engine degreaser and simple green, and it only helped it a little bit. I also tried some mothers polish and it worked well, but is extremely hard to get in tight areas like between the cooling fins on cylinder. Should I clean it as well as I can and then paint it? Let me know what you all think.

Here are some pictures:

http://www.geocities.com/kalebarellano/bike.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/kalebarellano/engine.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/kalebarellano/smoke.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/kalebarellano/head1.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/kalebarellano/apart.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/kalebarellano/cylinderwall.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/kalebarellano/pile.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/kalebarellano/piston3.jpg

Let me know what you all think.




HERE IS A LIST OF PARTS I AM LOOKING FOR:
-Exhaust tip for stock exhaust
-skid plates
-bumper
-scoops
-shock covers
-K&N

If you have any of these items let me know what you have and how much.

[idro]

you got a job ahead of you if you're gonna get it looking emmaculant(sp?) again. First owner didnt take care of it, it seems :(

fyi i got a 400ex stock exhaust in my basement. off of my 06 of course.

[kalebarellano]

Ya, it will be alot of work. But at least I wont have to worry about the frame/subframe and a-arms cause that is all gonna be sand blasted and painted, so those will be clean. As for the engine, I got a good bit of the bottom end polished up pretty nice. Its actually hard to believe that the polish worked as well as it did. I will get some pics of that for you. I did 2 rounds of engine degreaser and simple green and it started getting cleaner. I was thinking of painting, but I am kinda thinking just alot of polishing and cleaning. I made a few custom drill bits (cause I couldn't find any small ones) that do alot of the polishing for me, and they get into small spots. And I figure after a decent polish and about 50-60 washes it should look nice. But who knows maybe I will just paint it.

I also got a set of graphics and seat cover.

idro, how much do you want for the tip to that exhaust? It will work with a 2001, right?

[Eviltanker]

I got stock: bumper, exhaust tip, and factory skid plates. All 2006 and they should work.

[kalebarellano]

How much for the exhaust tip? I am looking for aftermarket other stuff.

[Rootar]

go to a car detailing place and ask them if they have any acid for cleaning aluminum wheels what they usally get they mix with water, buy some off of them get some heavy rubber gloves and some steel wool and well that thing will look new TRUST me i have this acid but becareful itll eat the insides out of a spray bottle fairly quickly;)

[kalebarellano]

Thanks for the tip, rootar. Could this damage anything since it is so corrosive? What is this stuff called?

Thanks

[j450rking]

would you be interested in a pro circet slip on with a stock header pipe that has high heat silver paint on it and a black heat sheild? $100

[Hondabeefast]

i have a stock exhaust tip off of my 05 400ex...i give it to ya dirt cheap.
pm me if you want it

[400eXr1d3rZ]

Pics don't work.

[kalebarellano]

I think it is just crappy hosting from geocities. Too much bandwidth. Try again later.

[prnstr4life]

If you are redoing the motor tkae the pieces to a machine shop and have them cleaned for you. they will look like new. then you can repaint the covers and make them look new. Acid does work but can eat away and certain things that arent aluminum. I use it every time i clean my 400ex and it looks like new.

call a good machine shop and ask them how much they would want to clean the parts for you

[kalebarellano]

prnstr4life, you use the acid stuff? What is it called? What parts can it hurt? Just rubber stuff and wires and stuff?

[ride_red666]

sandblast those engine mounts and any other small parts and paint them. itll help to clean it up. if you use acid anything with rubber on it can be used. only aluminum or metal parts can be cleaned with it. i used to use it when i worked at an engine shop and it does wonders.

[kalebarellano]

What is this acid called? Sounds like I need to get some of it.

[kalebarellano]

I should have my piston in monday, and I will get my cylinder bored and honed on mon. or tues. I get my paint and a bunch of other stuff tues. I am going out of town thurs. so that will set back the bike. But I plan to have it completely done no later than feb. 10. I will keep you all posted with info and pics.

[idro]

that engine degreaser you get from auto zone works wonders too....

I use that, and a can of that armorall tire foam stuff on my car's engine every month or so and gets it looking show room shiney in the engine bay.

[HondaSkidoo]

Looks like a great project. Hopefully you got a good deal on it. Keep us posted with pic on the progress. Just take your time and have fun.:D

[kalebarellano]

I'll get you pics, when I get some more stuff done to it. I am getting my piston tomorrow, and I am taking it to the shop, so they can bore/hone my cylinder. Then tues. I get some more parts, including paint.

Whats the name of that acid that can clean cylinders? I want to try and get some.

Thanks

[kalebarellano]

Just an update.

I got my piston and everything in. Dropped the piston off at the place that has my cylinder right now, so its probably a 406 right now, I just need to pick it up.

More parts have come off, mostly little stuff, and all front suspension parts. Its pretty much down to the frame now. But I am going out of town tomorrow, hopefully when I get back it will be warm enough to paint the frame/subframe and a-arms.

I hope to have it all done by feb. 10th, but that is not going to happen if its too cold to paint. Anyway to paint when it is cold?

Also I cannot separate the spindles from the a-arms. Bolts are all of they just wont come apart. Any tips?

I will keep you all posted.

[400eXr1d3rZ]

Originally posted by kalebarellano
Just an update.



Also I cannot separate the spindles from the a-arms. Bolts are all of they just wont come apart. Any tips?

I will keep you all posted.

Pickle fork and sledge hammer.

[kalebarellano]

Are they easy to get back on?

[400exMO]

Originally posted by kalebarellano
Are they easy to get back on?
Yeah they're easy to get back on. If you're going to use a pickle fork though you'll probably have to buy new aarms. Because the fork will tear the balljoint boots.

Take a hammer and whack the spindle all around where the balljoint goes through, it should come loose. If not you'll want to buy a balljoint popper.

If you plan on getting new arms just use a pickle fork.

[kalebarellano]

I am getting the frame sand blasted, and planned to get the a-arms sand blasted too. But I guess I could just sand the hell out of them with regular sand paper, and tape off the spindles, and paint the a-arms with the spindles attached. Might be easier that way.

[JimmyHoffa]

Ok. ...So I have tremendous respect for you because you're doing EXACTLY what I just finished doing, even on the same color bike. I soaked my engine in WD-40 for 10 days-ish before i took ANYTHING apart, then I took the oil/dirt (WD+crap) off with Greased Lightning. WD can pull dirt out of metal if given the time, and then you can remove the filthy mix with some harsh chemicals. As for the spindles, I have a sweet solution. I hope you can tell what the tool does by the pic. You put the tube over one of the studs, and "loosen" the bolt against the opposing stud. Flip it around, and do more of the same. It cost me $0. (less the cost of 10 inches of welding wire) I'm 18 and in school, so all my tools have to be free. It consists of a short 3/4" bolt, a nut welded into the end of some old chair leg tubing, and galvanized flat stock for the handle.
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o228/JimmyHoffa88/P1010085.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>
<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o228/JimmyHoffa88/P1010084.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

[JimmyHoffa]

i didn't even buy an axle/carrier nut wrench. I made my own out of some flat stock cut and precisely welded together into a huge hex. I have a homemade valve spring compressor too.

Also, I have a stock bare steel bumper ready for any color paint, and you can pretty much steal it from me (well, not quite, but cheap) if ya want it.

[kalebarellano]

Wow, your engine looks great. I just keep my a-arms connected to my spindles and taped off the spindles. I put about 3 coats of primer on everything today, and will spray the black tomorrow(as long as weather permits). I think I will go ahead and start soaking my engine in wd-40. I have this little wire brush looking thing that goes in a drill, and it knocks the dirt off stuff pretty good. So I will probably hit the main/big areas with that.

As for the engine, I got my cylinder back and I got my new valve seals installed. I am going to try and install my crf 450 cam chain tomorrow. I plan to reassemble the engine while its in the frame, so it will be easier to get accurate torque specs.

I will get some pics of the frame painted. I hope to have this done by next weekend.

[JimmyHoffa]

In that case, you deserve a detailed cleaning process. First, I simple greened the whole deal 5 or 6 times-ish. Then, after I powerwashed the last lathering of simple green off with a low pressure setting, I let the block dry. I then coated it in WD quite heavily, and brushed it around a bit. I could already see the WD pulling the dirt from the pores of the aluminum. I got off what I could with a thin shop rag, then I recoated it in WD and scrubbed it daily. Today, I'll be washing all of it off with a good degreaser, like Greased Lightning. (I know it will work on mine because I've done it before. The procedure was developed on my 300ex, and the 400ex is a engine-cleaning-in-progress. I'll post pics later today when I degrease it.) If you have ANY questions about the bike at all, just ask. I hope you have a clymers.

The upside of popping out your spindles is that you can pop off the grease boot and repack the ball joints with good grease. (The factory never uses enough on anything.)

...the only reservation I have is that you have the most baked on crap I have ever seen on an engine EVER! Best of luck.

[prnstr4life]

I get acid from a auto chemical supplier.

I hope anything aluminum you painted you used an aluminum etching primer otherwise the paint will not stay on there long.

[kalebarellano]

I just used pj1's primer, and I am using their glossy black paint, and clear coat. About $70 total, for all the paint.

[prnstr4life]

better hope its good on aluminum! I painted a set of 17" rims for a car when I worked at a body shop and forgot the etching primer and the paint peeled right off.

[kalebarellano]

Is the 400ex frame aluminum? I didn't think that it was.

[JimmyHoffa]

nope. she's a big smokin' hunk of honda steel.

[kalebarellano]

Thats what I thought, now all I got to do is get some clear coat, and put everything back together.

[kalebarellano]

Ok here is everything painted, I still need clear coat.

[kalebarellano]

A-arms, I taped off the spindles cause they were going to be a pain to get off.

[kalebarellano]

Frame

[kalebarellano]

Here is the bored cylinder.

[kalebarellano]

How can I get this crap (carbon build up) off?

[kalebarellano]

Anyone know where these smaller ones go? Just so you know how big they are the one around it is a valve cover seal.

[kalebarellano]

Also were do these gold ones go? And what about the thin red one around them?

[jaspurx]

I use contact cleaner and a tooth brush to get between the tight spots and cooling fins on my 400ex. Call me a neat freak , but it is an air cooled engine and dirt holds the heat in and cuts down on cooling. But then I have an aftermarket cooling system on mine as well! My 400ex will be running strong a long long time!

[kalebarellano]

I think I am going to wait until the engine is back together before I clean it, there is just to many open areas that water, cleaners, ect. should not get into.

Anyone know how to get that carbon off the valves, or were the pictured seals go?

Thanks

[zrpilot]

Originally posted by kalebarellano
Also were do these gold ones go? And what about the thin red one around them?

The gold ones are the exhaust header gaskets. The large one is an o-ring that goes between the cylinder sleeve and the engine base gasket. There is an old one that must be removed.

[kalebarellano]

Ok, cool. Should I lube the seals up with engine oil?

Any thing special I need to do to the gaskets? Or just put them were they go.

Thanks

[STEVENJANNA]

Originally posted by kalebarellano
I think I am going to wait until the engine is back together before I clean it, there is just to many open areas that water, cleaners, ect. should not get into.

Anyone know how to get that carbon off the valves, or were the pictured seals go?

Thanks
With that much carbon build up place the head upside down and fill the combustion chamber with 2+2 gum cutter (or equivelant carb cleaner) then take a tooth brush and brush it around and let it sit overnight.
This will also tell you if your valve sets are worn because if they are you'll see fluid leakage into the intake/exhaust ports.

[hondaracer57]

i think the little seals are valve seals...

[JimmyHoffa]

The head needs to be broken down. If there's one thing that Honda hasn't quite mastered, it's valve guides. I'd venture to bet that a sizeable portion of the smoke that thing was blowing was from the valvetrain. (unless you proved otherwise with compression tests) If the engine had that many hours on it, it could REALLY use a valve job. Trust me-worth the money-especially while it's apart.

[kalebarellano]

I already replaced the valve seals. What else should be done? A guy with a 1999, bought one in similar condition, actually smoking worse. He told be he did a hone, piston, and valve seals and it was good to go. I know each bike is different though.

[kalebarellano]

With that much carbon build up place the head upside down and fill the combustion chamber with 2+2 gum cutter (or equivelant carb cleaner) then take a tooth brush and brush it around and let it sit overnight.
This will also tell you if your valve sets are worn because if they are you'll see fluid leakage into the intake/exhaust ports.

Ok, I will try that. I dont think the bike was jetted correctly, so I think that is some of the reason for all that build up.

[blasterandy]

Hey talk to pappy i was lookin in a thread yesterday about pc and he does something called molly coating it looks like a really smooth rhino lining type stuff and supposeldy dispurses heat and its black so it will make ur engine look pretty custom. Ya know:D Also i belive they use hydrocloric acid. Not exactly positive but thats what i used diluted with some about 20 prt water 1prt acid and it took it off easy.and yess if you use a rag throw it away the next day it will just fall apart and makes a huge mess (speaking from prior exp.)
just my .02

Tell me how that spray paint holds up seems like a pretty cheap alternative.:)

[kalebarellano]

Yes, I am thinking I will use hydrochloric acid + soak engine in wd40 + alot simply green + scrubbing................lol.

I think the paint is going to hold up well. I did alot of research before I ordered it, but I heard from just about everyone that had painted one, they were happy with it, and most of them just used regular paint from the store. Which probably is weaker than the epoxy paint I got from pj1. I heard alot of, oh spray paint is crap (mostly from people with pc, of people that failed to prep there frame). I ordered the wrong clear by mistake. I ordered lacquer clear, but I ordered the right stuff (epoxy clear) a couple days ago. I have given it the chip test (hit it with a piece of metal), and it held up well.

Should I paint my oil tank black or leave it silver? Should I use heat paint?

[JimmyHoffa]

Seals were definitely a good idea. I trust your judgement here. I just thought I'd offer up info on Honda's valve guide tendancies if you had any hard data (i.e. compression test, compression test + oil) to compare my theory with. Paint looks amazing. It actually looks better than my PC in the pics. If your paint is super hard than I really don't have much of an advantage with my PC. Good thing it was free... so I don't feel stupid.

Also, tell my how the HCl acid works on your engine. I have a few family members who aren't so keen on the maintenance...

[kalebarellano]

Ok, I got the engine in the frame, and all the suspension and tires are on. The top end is all done. I am waiting on the clutch center, and a clutch holder tool. I should have both of them wed. I will get some more pics soon.

[JimmyHoffa]

How'd you get the block clean? Or did you....

I got to take mine to the track on Friday and it beat the crap out of me. I still have trouble getting up out ot a chair and I'm only a teenager. I'm looking longingly at a set of 450r shocks...

[kalebarellano]

I haven't cleaned it yet. I polished part of the bottom end, and sprayed some wd-40 on it. My plan is to cover the engine in max grade simple green and scrub it alot. Then soak the engine in wd-40 for a few days (I'll keep adding more as it soaks in. Then do simple green again, and engine degreaser. And just do that about 20 times and it should look somewhat better. Anyway its whats on the inside that counts.............right.

[Rancher2005]

lube up the swingarm pivot bolt before it gets worse(more frozen)

[JimmyHoffa]

Nahhhh.... The outside is quite important. You would cry if you knew how hot that engine was probably running. All the air cooled honda bikes run hotter than I like.

[kalebarellano]

I lubed up all suspension parts.

It is not much mud/clay, it is just a thin layer, so I dont think it is effecting cooling that much. I got air scoops to so it probably offsets it. Also my head is starting to look cleaner. I haven't done anything to the cylinder yet. Once I get the exhaust and intake on, I will do some real cleaning.

[kalebarellano]

I fired her up tonight (at about 2am, my neighbors probably love me) for the first time. She fired right up, and idled fine. I moved the throttle around while it warmed up, and then went for a quick 5min ride around town (I live in a somewhat small town, nobody is out at 2am). I ran it pretty hard. Tomorrow I am gonna take it out and run it real hard. It ran good, there was alot of smoke coming from the top end and exhaust when I first started it up, but I am pretty sure it was just some chemicals burning off. The clutch worked well, didn't really test it to much. I do need a clutch cable though, and maybe a perch/lever.

I will get you all some pictures soon.

If anyone has a clutch cable, perch and/or lever let me know how much you want.

[DF400ex]

Originally posted by kalebarellano
I think I am going to wait until the engine is back together before I clean it, there is just to many open areas that water, cleaners, ect. should not get into.

Anyone know how to get that carbon off the valves, or were the pictured seals go?

Thanks

Well, we use Carb cleaner in the Army to clean the carbon out of our weapons. if that doesn't work, you can try scraping it off. Just make sure you use a scraper that is softer than your valves so you do not scratch them

[kalebarellano]

Ya, I already got that off, I filled the combustion chamber with pj1 and let it soak for a few days, and most of it just fell off. The rest I carefully scraped off.