Big bore or stock cylinder?

[garrettagr]

I have an 86 R that is for the most part, stock. I contacted a couple of companies and LRD and trinity came out on top but ESR has some pretty good prices as well. THey told me to port my cylinder, re sleave it and make it a 295 or 300. This would run me about 800 bucks with them cutting me a new dome for my cool head. What are your opinions. Should i use my old cylinder and do this or get a whole new 310 from ESR. Also the porting question. I still need to talk to neil at c-leigh but going on the info i gave you, what would you do. thanks

[GPracer2500]

I also want to know about the big bore sleeve for stock cylinders. Does a stock head need to be o-ringed with those or will gaskets hold?

Is it better to just go with a Pro-X replacement cylinder?

[kiesta00]

good power can be squeezed out of the stock cylinder with a bigger bore (270cc max) , porting, increased compression and the right carb/pipe setup...for a few dollars less than a new prox cylinder. Sure the prox cylinders will make a good bit more power, just gotta decide if you're willing to spend that much more for a few more ponies. I'm sure a nicely setup stock cylinder will make you happy.

Just some figures, not really specific prices for you
Bore: $50
Porting: $250-400 depending on whos doing it
Rechamber head: $60
New piston: $90
Top end gasket: $30

Total: $480-630 on the stock cylinder setup. Again these are just ballpark figures so you may come out cheaper or more expensive. I'm sure a nicely setup stock cylinder will make you happy.

[RichM1983]

Originally posted by kiesta00
good power can be squeezed out of the stock cylinder with a bigger bore (270cc max)


Maybe on the stock bore but with a re-sleeve you can get to 310cc, but the 310 is on the last overbore of that sleeve.



I would go with a ESR pro-x 310 cylinder with an econo port for a little less than $800. Then save some cash and have it ported by someone else because ESR porting is hit or miss. Thats what I would do.

[deathman53]

also, the pro-x cylinders run cooler and have better port lay-out. Re-sleeves have a tendancy to run hot. A coolhead and aftermarket radiator are a definete must.

[C-LEIGH RACING]

So, LRD or Trinity would be charging you 800 to turn your stock cylinder into a 295, if thats what you want then thats ok, but you can get a ported ESR 310 cylinder for 899.00 with which ever port job you want, TRX7, 9 or 11, comes with their own cool head & your choise of colors.
Just like deathman said, lots of advantages in the Pro-x cylinders as well.
Neil

[garrettagr]

Well, c-leigh, i got a question for you. I have heard that these big places like ESR and CT and what not, just port them a little but you are really not getting what you paid for. I was wondering if it would be better to say get the resleave and have you port it and get a better port job, or go with the 310 cylinder like you said. the main theory is that indepnedent or smaller companies do a better job of porting than the bigger ones. What is your opinion?

[Creech52]

I cant say anything on the choice but, I have friend with a resleeved cylinder, it was a 295cc. Anyway he can not keep head gaskets on it. Hes tried pretty much every style of gasket for a stock head. Also reading on I believe Macdizzy he also said that big bore resleeves eat head gaskets and you need to do the o-ring mod. So thats just something to consider. Also with a new pro-x your getting all the added benifits like stated above.

[slomoe]

i am waiting for my 310 from esr should be here any day.
I have a resleeved 310 cylinder at home and the sleeve droped
and i had to have the cylinder decked,. then the studs started to pull out. so i decided to start new with an esr.

[ChvyCruzen]

I'm going to be ordering a ESR 310 PV in March, or april at the latest. Probably when I get my 310 PV, I'll get a frame too - most likely LSR.

[RichM1983]

Originally posted by garrettagr
Well, c-leigh, i got a question for you. I have heard that these big places like ESR and CT and what not, just port them a little but you are really not getting what you paid for. I was wondering if it would be better to say get the resleave and have you port it and get a better port job, or go with the 310 cylinder like you said. the main theory is that indepnedent or smaller companies do a better job of porting than the bigger ones. What is your opinion?


Buy the $800 econo port cylinder and dont worry about their sub par porting work. Then you can spend the extra cash and have it ported by someone that does a good job. ESR porting is hit or miss, If you buy the econo port you dont have to worry.

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by RichM1983
...ESR porting is hit or miss, If you buy the econo port you dont have to worry.

What's been your experience with ESR that makes you say that? I'm not saying you're wrong--I just don't know.

[GPracer2500]

How well does an "econo" port from ESR run?

Do the Pro-X cylinders have decent stock porting or are they more like a blank canvas for your prefered port work?

[C-LEIGH RACING]

Originally posted by garrettagr
Well, c-leigh, i got a question for you. I have heard that these big places like ESR and CT and what not, just port them a little but you are really not getting what you paid for. I was wondering if it would be better to say get the resleave and have you port it and get a better port job, or go with the 310 cylinder like you said. the main theory is that indepnedent or smaller companies do a better job of porting than the bigger ones. What is your opinion?

Some of your question I can answer & some I cant.

You could say you would be getting your moneys worth on the Pro-x cylinder kits because the porting is just a added throw in realy.
Yes the porting from either place would be somewhat like generic, but when you add up the total price portings only like 100.00 or 150.00 of the total, so your at least getting that much worth of porting.

Just like Creech said, those sleeved 295s have their problems, but you would be surprized what a little Three Bond #1211 sealant can do, even with a thin CR head gasket or the fiber Cometic one, proper curing time is the key.

I realy think you would be more pleased with the Pro-X top end though.
Neil

[ChvyCruzen]

BTW Neil I found a place that sells that stuff online. All I could find, I haven't bought any yet but I plan to.

Three Bond (http://www.pro-flo.com/three_bond_products.htm)

[C-LEIGH RACING]

Thats a good deal, last tube I bought paid 21.00 for it.
I used the #1104 for a good while till the #1211 came out, it seams to cure out a little harder than the 1104
Neil

[86 Quad R]

where do you get your sealant at neil?

[C-LEIGH RACING]

I cant remember 100% right now, think it was McDonald ATV out of Little Rock AR.
Neil

[86 Quad R]

know the place :cool: a local auto parts wouldnt carry it would they? :confused:

[ChvyCruzen]

Originally posted by C-LEIGH RACING
Thats a good deal, last tube I bought paid 21.00 for it.
I used the #1104 for a good while till the #1211 came out, it seams to cure out a little harder than the 1104
Neil
I thought $17 was a little steep but I guess it's not all that bad then. The #1104 is like 4 or 5 bucks compared to #1211.

[garrettagr]

Ok. I think that i know what i am going to do as far as a big bore. Probable get an ESR or something along that line instead of a resleave. But the question now is should i tear into my bottom end when i do this? It is an 86 and they say that 2nd gear is weak. Let me know what you think.

[RichM1983]

Originally posted by GPracer2500
What's been your experience with ESR that makes you say that? I'm not saying you're wrong--I just don't know.


Everyone that I talked to when I was going to get a 310 on everything2stroke.com said that the econo port was the way to go and then have it ported by someone that would pay more attention to what you want rather than you just being an address that ordered that cylinder. People over there said the porting was hit or miss at ESR or CT and that the econo port was the way to go then have it ported later. You can run with the econo ports, its something like a port match job.

[C-LEIGH RACING]

If that bottom ends never been in to, yes I would go in & replace some of those gears, if by chance it has been in to, could be they have already been replaced.
Neil

[kiesta00]

you will want to check your rod clearance, i think the service limit is .040 ...dont want a bad crank with a $900 top end and then have the crank go bad. You can get your stock crank rebuilt for $140 or so.

[garrettagr]

Now c leigh, is there any way to figure out if the cases have been split before or not? I just bought this bike a few months ago and do not have any history of it all.

[deathman53]

One way you might be able to tell, is to look at the color of the center gasket(between the 2 cases). If its a green gasket, there is a good cance it was never split. Thats unless who ever rebuilt it, used a oem gasket kit(which isn't that common, due to the cost). Same thing goes for the cluth cover and mag cover gaskets.

[spent21]

i don't know what you have decided to do, but i'll put up my experience.
i bought a brand new stock jug and had it sent directly to Kim Muchmore (K&T performance) http://www.ktperformance.com/ . Kim decked my stock head, ported polished my jug, and shaped up my reed cage stuffer. i think he charged me 300-350 bucks several years ago (7+). he REALLY knows his stuff. the thing about decking the head is this: you can run the thick atc style head gasket and have 180 psi compression, which is around the cutoff point for 93 octane, OR, run the thinner style CR head gasket (bumps up the compression) and need race fuel. the ultimate poor man's cool head. i have never tried the cr gasket and have yet to need to.
my very first MX race, i placed 2nd overall.
this is a virgin bore 246 that absolutely WALKED ALL OVER ported 310s. all i have as far as the engine goes, is that jug/head combo, 38mm AS, and a ESR pipe. a guy with a CT 310 came to me after the race wanting to know what i had. he could not believe i had a 246.
i did months of research before sending kim my jug. i talked to as many people as i could in message boards and at the tracks. i called all of the porting people from sparks, lrd, ct, esr on down. everyone i ever talked to said CT had the worst customer service of anyone when it came to mx setups. kim literally spent an hour on the phone with me asking me questions. he wanted to know what i expected from this engine. i got more.
why am i giving this information away you may ask?
the 250r is a dying breed. a sick smile comes over my face when i hear of a sleeper 250 handing a built 450r its *** and making it ask for seconds. i'm out of mx for good. i'm not going to be against any of you on the mx track, so i want the 250 to be represented out there. if i ever need 2-stroke work again, kim will be getting my business.

[garrettagr]

Hey thanks alot man. I dont do MX racing. Mainly dunes and some sport riding. I never thought of calling KT but i think i might tomorrow. I too love the R and all of my frinds say just buy a 4 stroke, they are lazy. Would rather spend 9 thousand for a quad that is by my opinion is "ok". I would rather do what i like and ride an R. I might spend 9 grand on it but i shure will have more pride in it compared to my buddies.
thanks alot spent 21.

[garrettagr]

Anyone else have some opinions?

[kiesta00]

I myself am going for the stock cylinder/sleeper appearance...I am stroking my crankshaft too so thats sorta a different ballgame. Theres no other feeling than beating someone in a race and saying...oh its stock lol.

[wilkin250r]

Big bore or stock?

The problem is, many people (especially the younger ones) get an idea of what the "best" is, and suggest it to everybody else, regardless of the costs, even though they don't actually have any experience with it.

I say, cost is a big factor, and it needs to be taken into consideration.

For a first stage, I say you can't beat porting on the stock cylinder (and head mods). It's usually a few hundred bucks, and provides great gains. I'm not going to recommend a particular person or company, because there are always good experiences and bad experiences with EVERY company.

However, it just seems that lots of people have problems with resleeves. When it comes to the next step, I'd suggest a Pro-X before I'd suggest a big-bore relsleeve on the stock cylinder, even though the Pro-X is more expensive. They have a better port layout, and I've heard of a lot less problems.