LTR450 no power climbing hills

[noworries]

I finally got all my break in hours on my newly repaired ltr450. (A piece of the piston broke off with less then 2 hours on it, in case you missed that post).

Anyhow, I started pushing the quad this trip, and I'm still somewhat bummed with the performance.

If I head up olds I have to get going fast in the whoops, because once it starts to climb I can't accelerate, and about 1/3 to 1/4 from the top it starts to slow down. So if I get a bad start, I don't make it up!

My wife's stock 2003 LTZ400 climbs straight up. It won't accelerate up the last 1/3 - 1/4, but it doesn't slow at all.

Now my thoughts would be a 450 should outperform a 400--is that correct? or is the gearing different on the 450 that makes the difference?

The 450 really sucks up the whoops nice--it's just sad when I'm racing my friends and as soon as I get on the climb they just blast right past me.

[bradley300]

are you down shifting? the z400 has a lot more low end than a LTR which will make it climb better at lower rpm's. as long as you keep the revs way up the lt-r shouldnt have any problems

[noworries]

I have had to downshift to 1st a few times to make it up hills--is that normal? I guess that's what I'm trying to figure out.

I've ridden on a predator 500, a z400, and a tricked out z400, and I never have to shift in to 1st on any of those.

I'm just trying to figure out if this bike is running right or not. The dealer I bought it from has a really lame service department (didn't know that before I bought)--and I'm worried they still screwed something up.

[IDEX]

You probally need to gear it down, unless you are running the stock sized tires. I assume you are probally running some 20" paddles, which would make the stock gearing to high.

[noworries]

I'm running sand stars on both my stock LTR450 and LTZ400. Tires are AT20X11-10R. What would you recommend I do?

[honda250xrider]

drop down to a 13. I would also suggest investing into a $30 cherrybomb and remove the baffle and the airbox lid and you will see some noticable gains that would help the hill climbing a bit

[noworries]

How hard is it to replace the sprocket? How long does it take?

Any recommendations on where to get one? Cycle Parts West or buy online?

[250r4life]

i would definately take the baffle out, get the cherry bomb, and remove the lid... that will make a world of difference...

and yes, if you have 20 rears and still have everything stock, it will be a dog...

it is easy to change a sprocket, and i would just get a primary drive one from Rocky Mountain...

[sandmanblue]

Originally posted by noworries
I finally got all my break in hours on my newly repaired ltr450. (A piece of the piston broke off with less then 2 hours on it, in case you missed that post).

Anyhow, I started pushing the quad this trip, and I'm still somewhat bummed with the performance.

If I head up olds I have to get going fast in the whoops, because once it starts to climb I can't accelerate, and about 1/3 to 1/4 from the top it starts to slow down. So if I get a bad start, I don't make it up!

My wife's stock 2003 LTZ400 climbs straight up. It won't accelerate up the last 1/3 - 1/4, but it doesn't slow at all.

Now my thoughts would be a 450 should outperform a 400--is that correct? or is the gearing different on the 450 that makes the difference?

The 450 really sucks up the whoops nice--it's just sad when I'm racing my friends and as soon as I get on the climb they just blast right past me.


Something isn't right here. Running the 20" tires in first gear at 8500 rpm is only 33 mph. 2nd would be about 42 mph. I can't imagine the stock motor not being able to pull second up Olds. How much do you weigh and how much pressure are you running in your tires?

Even all corked up, that motor is still putting out almost 40 hp, which should easily dust a LTZ400... I'm confused...

Are you running with ANY mods at all? Airbox lid off? Exhaust insert out?

[noworries]

I weigh 200lbs, and I've got 4lbs of air in the back tires. It's COMPLETELY stock except for the rear tires.

[racing66atv]

the ltr like to revv...so keep the rpms up u should be good

[asjr39]

I've got the yoshi RS5 slip on with the air box lid off and a cherry bomb and 18in extreme paddles and I was flying up olds with no problem. I started off in 2nd and after the whoops I shifted too 3rd and stood on 3rd all the way up. In fact if i got off the line slow, I was catching people 3/4 of the way on the top. You may have another problem, I dont know if gearing alone would do what your talking about.

[Speed_MDS2]

Originally posted by asjr39
I've got the yoshi RS5 slip on with the air box lid off and a cherry bomb and 18in extreme paddles and I was flying up olds with no problem. I started off in 2nd and after the whoops I shifted too 3rd and stood on 3rd all the way up. In fact if i got off the line slow, I was catching people 3/4 of the way on the top. You may have another problem, I dont know if gearing alone would do what your talking about.

18" extremes? I called Skat Trac last spring and asked if they sold 18" paddles for the bike and they said that they made no 18" paddles that would hold up. He said that their 18"ers where for minis. How are yours holding up?

[asjr39]

first time i used them. they have kevlar in them and are supposed to last alot longer than the haulers. i got them for $299. they guy where i got them said he called skat trac and suzuki and they both recommended these tires

[crfspode54]

I was having the same problem, my buddie's yfz pulled test in 3rd, me, i would have to drop it into 2nd. I have an rs-5, cherrybomb , bla bla bla, and my paddles are 20's. drop to a 13t sprkt in the front . it is geared for the stock 18's. going to 20's is like dropping the rear sprocket 2 or 3 teeth .

[Quady]

I had no problems climbing hard hills when it was stock (only rear tires changed) but when I made the common easy mods (cherry, baffle out, no lid) I actually did out perform modified banshees,,,, maybe coz I only weigh around 150-155 lbs

[Baracudaaa]

Something is still f-ed up with your LTR, completely stock it should run Olds easily in 2nd, if not 3rd. Hate to say it, but she isnt fixed yet.

[asjr39]

Yeah, I was eating up banshees up olds. not all of them but there was a few i was beating every time. But like i was told and i tell others, 80% rider, 20% bike. I would take the bike in and have the dealer either dyno test it to another stock bike so they can see the difference or you just bite the bullet and do it yourself and find someone on this site that can send you there dyno stock test and take it to the dealer. Like i said I started off in 2nd then 3rd all the way up and I would catch others who got me off the line.

[ILOVESTRIPPERS]

im running 18 inch paddles and i put a 13 tooth sprocket on it it really helped me on the take off but i would be in fourth climbing i switched it back to a 14 i think it would whine my tranny out too much because i never had a problem and until t switched it too a 13 and now it makes a terrible noise towards the top i never got a chance to try it with a 14 tooth i have the 18 skat trak extremes i was gonna run 20 inch with my 13 tooth but then i found the 18 paddles i was beating almost everyhing out there until my tranny started to act up

[kbrown]

Change to a 13th for sure when running 20s, its a must! Also go get a 30$ cherrybomb remove airbox lid and baffle. You will tell the difference I promise. I have also ran a 13th with 18s and it was just to low geared especially for jumping. The sprocket is only 8 bucks or so at rocky mountain. Its a primary drive.

[noworries]

I dropped it off at Hahm today--they're going to do the first service on it and let me know if they find anything else wrong with it. Keep your fingers crossed for me!

[Kracker]

Why are you guys running 18in paddles??

[asjr39]

I was gonna run 20's but the guy i got them from said he called skat trac and suzuki and they both recommended the 18's. The 18's and 20's were the same price so its not like he was trying to make extra money. Also the ltr gearing is set up to run 18's.

[noworries]

Probably because the stock tires are 18"?

[noworries]

Just got the bike back from Hahm's. So far it seems to start MUCH easier--pretty much instantly. From the repair order:

"Upon service noticed unit had a very iradic idle and was lacking power at top end on test ride. Inspected unit for any fault codes but found none. Air filter was very dirty but not plugged up. Fuel filter a little contaminated but not enough to cause running condition. Found cam timing on both cams off by one tooth. Reinstalled cams in correct position of factory specs at top dead center. Reassembled and unit starts, idles smooth and runs good."

Will post a full report after I get back from riding this weekend. Anybody recommend where to order the 18" sand tires?

[asjr39]

Wow just goes to show if you have a bad mechanic fix your stuff things can go really bad. Good thing you got it all fixed. Now you gotta go back to Olds and see how the thing runs. My 18in paddles are Extreme's, scat track i think makes them. i have 8 paddles but count them cause my brother in law has 6 paddles on his. I dont think it makes a difference cause he was still hauling ***.

[Kracker]

Guys, I am not trying to be a downer here. But, you are really taking away a lot of potential from this bike by running 18in paddles. I would HIGHLY recommend atleast a 20in tire, along with a slight gearing change.

[asjr39]

why would you be taking away from the bike when they come stock 18's? Why run 20's with a 13 front sprocket when you put 18's and dont have to change a thing? But what performance is being taken away? Please explain?

[Kracker]

The fact that an 18 was designed for a mini. It will just spin and sink in the sand. You will be lucky if it holds together. A bigger tire will stay on top of the sand a lot better. But, you can do what you want. There is a reason that you will be the only one in the dunes with an 18 paddle on a full size bike.

[asjr39]

Do me a favor. your here in arizona, call metro motor sports on bell and 59th ave and ask to talk with Zack. hes the one that called suzuki and scat trac. Hes also one of head guys in the parts department. I was at glamis this month and i only sunk in the sand once and thats was in some blow sand at the top of a crest.

[Kracker]

The motor sports group in AZ is a joke. They don't know their *** from a hole in the ground. I was just trying to give some helpful advice to make your bikes run better and faster. I could call them and they could tell me the same thing they told you. But, that doesn't mean that they know what they are talking about. Good luck with those tires.

[Kracker]

Originally posted by noworries
Probably because the stock tires are 18"?

Nice.

[asjr39]

Like I said, my bike runs great. Use what you use and I will use what I use. And you still didnt give me any facts as too why the 20's are better than 18's. You talk but I dont hear anything worth listening too.

[Kracker]

Originally posted by asjr39
Like I said, my bike runs great. Use what you use and I will use what I use.

You got it. Now I remember why I don't come to this site very much.

[asjr39]

Then i wont be expecting a reply. I hear there are other great sites.

[Kracker]

There is.

[z400roosteR]

Maybe you should try getting shifting down on a rap350 or even a blaster before you dump and waste money on a bike you don't know how to ride.

[Kracker]

Originally posted by z400roosteR
Maybe you should try getting shifting down on a rap350 or even a blaster before you dump and waste money on a bike you don't know how to ride.


Are you reffering to me?

[Speed_MDS2]

I called skat trac and they said that they do NOT sell an 18" paddle for full size quads. He said it would fall apart and they where only for minis.

[z400roosteR]

Originally posted by Kracker
Are you reffering to me?
Nah, the guy that started the thread "noworries"

[noworries]

Originally posted by z400roosteR
Nah, the guy that started the thread "noworries"

Where you born an a-hole, or did you work at it your whole life?

I have to agree with what the other guy said about this site--too many a-holes like to put their unwanted, unwarranted, stupid comments because they need attention.

[asjr39]

Listen. Bottom line is they work great for MY QUAD and I like the way it runs. Noworries do us a favor and just delete this thread so these no it alls can start there own thread and get no replies.

[Kracker]

I was just trying to help, bro.

[asjr39]

I was at the Hassayampa river bottom today along with a buddy who also runs 18's and besides the drag banshees, no other quad could beat us, nor did any of them want to race us. but hey thanks for the help, bro.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by asjr39
so these no it alls can

"no" it all huh? :devil:

[250r4life]

Originally posted by asjr39
Do me a favor. your here in arizona, call metro motor sports on bell and 59th ave and ask to talk with Zack.

ha ha ha... its bad enough to eat up what the bike shops feed you, but the dealerships... we've got the blind leading the blind here...

[250r4life]

Originally posted by asjr39
I was at the Hassayampa river bottom today along with a buddy who also runs 18's and besides the drag banshees, no other quad could beat us, nor did any of them want to race us. but hey thanks for the help, bro.

you ever go to gordons well? im always up for a race...

[asjr39]

I will actually be there feb 10-11. and 250r i have know problems with you nor anyone else on this page. i just have a problem when people tell others how to run there bike. and i will be back at Hassayampa again on sunday.

[honda250xrider]

from what i've been told and seen 18" tires will work but they will not last as long or long as 20" paddles period. these motors put a beating on the paddles and will cause the 18 to premature wear well before it should.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by asjr39
I will actually be there feb 10-11. and 250r i have know problems with you nor anyone else on this page. i just have a problem when people tell others how to run there bike. and i will be back at Hassayampa again on sunday.

i have no problems with you either... i just like to play devils advocate and call it how i see it... i may be with you on one stance and against you on another...

[Kracker]

Originally posted by asjr39
I will actually be there feb 10-11. and 250r i have know problems with you nor anyone else on this page. i just have a problem when people tell others how to run there bike. and i will be back at Hassayampa again on sunday.

Nobody was "telling" you how to run your bike....Merely suggesting something that will make it run better.

[asjr39]

Once again, my bike runs great. hey 250r when are gonna be at gordons well again? and I will be the first one to say that because of the size of the tire and how fast its gonna spin, it will wear faster than the 20's.

[250r4life]

i dont think i will be there till presidents day weekend... going down friday morning...

who knows i may be there the weekend before, but for sure presidents day...

i was at glamis this past weekend, and gordons well the 2 weekends before that, so i need to rest this weekend at least...

[z400roosteR]

Originally posted by noworries
Where you born an a-hole , or did you work at it your whole life?

I have to agree with what the other guy said about this site--too many a-holes like to put their unwanted, unwarranted, stupid comments because they need attention.
It's a gift.. :devil:

Btw, nice grammar asshat!

[250r4life]

z400roosteR... your bike is a 450 killer huh? sweet! did you hear theyre making me the pope next month?

[asjr39]

I love this site:D

[ILOVESTRIPPERS]

I RUN THE 18 INCH SKAT EXTREMES AND HAVE NO PROBLEM I HAVE USED MY TIRES EVERY WEEKEND FOR THE PAST FOUR MONTHS NO PROBLEMS WITH WEAR AND TEAR AND FOR THE PEOPLE KNOCKING THEM HAVE YOU USED THEM I THINK YOU ARE JUST TRYING MAKE AN EXCUSE WHY YOU CANT AFFORD GOOD TIRES AND TRYING TO GET AROUND SPENDING EXTRA MONEY KRACKER YOU WERE RUDE YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TOO TALK BAD ABOUT OTHERS PEOPLES OPINONS, SAY THEY ARE WRONG OR THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. WHEN YOUR SELF ONLY HAVE ON OPINON TO OFFER AND NO PROOF TO WHY THEY ARE WRONG SO AS SOON AS YOU GET OUT OF YOUR TRAILER IN BUCKEYE GET A JOB OR CASH SOME FOOD STAMPS GO BUY THE RIGHT TIRES THANKS HAVE A NICE DAY:blah:

[asjr39]

Ha Ha. Like I said I love this site.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by ILOVESTRIPPERS
I RUN THE 18 INCH SKAT EXTREMES AND HAVE NO PROBLEM I HAVE USED MY TIRES EVERY WEEKEND FOR THE PAST FOUR MONTHS NO PROBLEMS WITH WEAR AND TEAR AND FOR THE PEOPLE KNOCKING THEM HAVE YOU USED THEM I THINK YOU ARE JUST TRYING MAKE AN EXCUSE WHY YOU CANT AFFORD GOOD TIRES AND TRYING TO GET AROUND SPENDING EXTRA MONEY KRACKER YOU WERE RUDE YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TOO TALK BAD ABOUT OTHERS PEOPLES OPINONS, SAY THEY ARE WRONG OR THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. WHEN YOUR SELF ONLY HAVE ON OPINON TO OFFER AND NO PROOF TO WHY THEY ARE WRONG SO AS SOON AS YOU GET OUT OF YOUR TRAILER IN BUCKEYE GET A JOB OR CASH SOME FOOD STAMPS GO BUY THE RIGHT TIRES THANKS HAVE A NICE DAY:blah:

apparently someone was tweaking on the day they taught the caps lock and punctuation buttons in typing class..

[Kracker]

Originally posted by ILOVESTRIPPERS
I RUN THE 18 INCH SKAT EXTREMES AND HAVE NO PROBLEM I HAVE USED MY TIRES EVERY WEEKEND FOR THE PAST FOUR MONTHS NO PROBLEMS WITH WEAR AND TEAR AND FOR THE PEOPLE KNOCKING THEM HAVE YOU USED THEM I THINK YOU ARE JUST TRYING MAKE AN EXCUSE WHY YOU CANT AFFORD GOOD TIRES AND TRYING TO GET AROUND SPENDING EXTRA MONEY KRACKER YOU WERE RUDE YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TOO TALK BAD ABOUT OTHERS PEOPLES OPINONS, SAY THEY ARE WRONG OR THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. WHEN YOUR SELF ONLY HAVE ON OPINON TO OFFER AND NO PROOF TO WHY THEY ARE WRONG SO AS SOON AS YOU GET OUT OF YOUR TRAILER IN BUCKEYE GET A JOB OR CASH SOME FOOD STAMPS GO BUY THE RIGHT TIRES THANKS HAVE A NICE DAY:blah:

Ok stripper pole. To answer you. I have not used the 18 in Skat Trak Extremes. Why would I use a kids quad tire on a big boy bike. I do however run the same tire in a 20in. So, I can afford good tires. Next topic. Point out to me one thing I said that was rude??? Or better yet, when did I talk bad about peoples opinions, or say they were wrong? Let me spell it out for you. A taller tire WILL have more top end. If you would like we could set up a date at the Hassayumpa to prove it. If you want to talk money, I could write a check for your *** right now. And last but not least, are you even old enough to get into a strip club? Back in line little boy.

[asjr39]

What are you gonna race? 1/4 mile or 1 mile? cause your gonna need more than a short track before those 20's can have an advantage. and the tracks there are shorter than a 1/4 mile. Its not who's the fastest, but whose the quikest.

[ILOVESTRIPPERS]

I DONT TAKE CHECKS BUT YOU COULD GET A LIEN ON THE TRAILER , PAYOFF SUZUKI TO GET A TITLE AND WE COULD RACE FOR PINKS ALSO IM OLD ENOUGH TO PUT YOUR GIRLFRIENDS TO WORK AT MY CLUB THAT I OWN

[Kracker]

Originally posted by ILOVESTRIPPERS
I DONT TAKE CHECKS BUT YOU COULD GET A LIEN ON THE TRAILER , PAYOFF SUZUKI TO GET A TITLE AND WE COULD RACE FOR PINKS ALSO IM OLD ENOUGH TO PUT YOUR GIRLFRIENDS TO WORK AT MY CLUB THAT I OWN

Another intelligent post. You can't even spell the city you live in....It is PHOENIX. I am done with you kids.

[R3Concepts]

Originally posted by 250r4life
i have no problems with you either... i just like to play devils advocate and call it how i see it... i may be with you on one stance and against you on another...

Ill race you again. My LTR is way faster then the Honda I raced you with last year.

Or you can race my other Honda.:D

[250r4life]

Originally posted by R3Concepts
Ill race you again. My LTR is way faster then the Honda I raced you with last year.

Or you can race my other Honda.:D

you think you LTR is faster than what your honda was? remind me- i forgot what you have done to your ltr...

i'll race you... im always down to race... i'd still like to see that video of us racing last year...

i dont doubt that you would beat me, but if i spent the money on mine that you have spent on yours, it'd be a different story

you gunna be down for presidents day at gordons well?

[R3Concepts]

Nah, the LTR is my ole ladies duner. Its just a quick 700 dollar build, but it is a mid 50s HP bike.

Now the Honda on the other hand, I got some cash in it. And, well, theres not many bikes that roam the South dunes that will come close.

I think we are going to Glamis for Presidents Day.:ermm:

I wish I knew how to post videos, your 250R and the blue YFZ that was with you guys ran well.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by R3Concepts
Nah, the LTR is my ole ladies duner. Its just a quick 700 dollar build, but it is a mid 50s HP bike.

Now the Honda on the other hand, I got some cash in it. And, well, theres not many bikes that roam the South dunes that will come close.

I think we are going to Glamis for Presidents Day.:ermm:

I wish I knew how to post videos, your 250R and the blue YFZ that was with you guys ran well.

yah- i didnt think your LTR was faster than what your 450r was a year ago... i remember you telling me what you had in it back then, and what you have in your LTR now... you had more than 700 in your trx, and i know you have considerably more into it now... can you shoot the hill with how it is set up, or strickly the flat drags?

how does your honda fare against the drag banshees? have you had a chance to race adrian from from RATV wherehouse or whatever? his banshee is pretty quick, but that guy wont ever let anybody get a fair start no matter who he is racing... if he doesnt get off the line before everybody else he wont even race...

[250r4life]

Originally posted by R3Concepts


I think we are going to Glamis for Presidents Day.:ermm:



i was just at glamis last weekend... that was the 1st time this season that i had gone back to glamis...

the one thing that i liked better than gordons well is the whoops... i dont mind bad whoops at all, in fact i like them a lot as that is how i am able to win and beat bikes that are faster than mine- taking the whoops better than they do... anywho... the whoops at gordons well seemed to have gotten a little too far spaced apart or something from the sand rails, or i dunno, but its hard to get into that groove where you just ride a wheelie over all of them...

a year ago they were fine and you could get into that groove... at glamis last weekend i was in it all the time and smoking people through the whoops... now i dont have a problem beating peopel through the whoops at gordons well, they are just different then the whoops at glamis

[250r4life]

you'd be impressed with how well my YFZ holds its own for not having anything into it really...

i took out the baffle (free), i took off the airbox lid (free), i rejetted it and since it uses the same jets as my 250r, that was free... and i got a pro design K&N, which cost me $130...

most people wouldnt beleive me if i told them how few a races i lose up patton, comp, or olds...

[250r4life]

i guess you would know how fast my bike is though, as you raced against my buddy with his yfz... now that i have mine, he and i trade off and are neck and neck each time... he has the boysen accelerator pump and an HMF, but weighs about 15 lbs more than i do so it appears that that HMF slip on is 15 lbs worth of weight better than a gutted stock silencer

[z400roosteR]

Originally posted by 250r4life
z400roosteR... your bike is a 450 killer huh? sweet! did you hear theyre making me the pope next month?
We have three things wrong with your comment.....1) it's all in the rider.....2) who said that is the only bike i have in my garage?:rolleyes: ....3)Don't come running your mouth talking **** on people's bikes when your 250r isn't that hot.:huh

Capish?

[250r4life]

Originally posted by z400roosteR
We have three things wrong with your comment.....1) it's all in the rider.....2) who said that is the only bike i have in my garage?:rolleyes: ....3)Don't come running your mouth talking **** on people's bikes when your 250r isn't that hot.:huh

Capish?

1) youre right- its all in the rider, and thats why i can say that
3) who says my 250r isnt that hot
d)revert back to #1- thats why i can say it... i smoke those whose bikes i should, and i smoke a lot of those whose bikes i shouldnt

[250r4life]

Originally posted by z400roosteR
Maybe you should try getting shifting down on a rap350 or even a blaster before you dump and waste money on a bike you don't know how to ride.

as i recall, youre the one who hopped in talking mess to people... which is worse- talking bad about somebody's bike or somebody?

exactly... so how you gunna tell me not to talk mess...

[250r4life]

Originally posted by z400roosteR
2) who said that is the only bike i have in my garage?:rolleyes:

yah, that makes perfect sense that you have all these trick bikes sitting in your garage, and it is your lil gay z400 that you post... perfect sense...

in fact i think im going to delete my R and my YFZ from my sig, and just put a stock blaster in there... and then when anybody says anything about me owning a blaster i'll say "oh yah, well i also have a 250r and yfz sitting in the garage too... and my dad is stronger than your dad."

[LTandRaptorider]

Originally posted by Kracker
Another intelligent post. You can't even spell the city you live in....It is PHOENIX. I am done with you kids.

I was thinking the same thing last night reading these posts... How he couldn't even spell his home town right! I see now he lives in Peoria... :rolleyes:

[bigbadbubba]

GO KRACKER :D

[250r4life]

uh oh... busted... sounds like somebody will be creating a new name...

[asjr39]

Wel my dad makis more mony than all your dades and he can beet theme al up to!! so tack that!!

[AL Elks]

There's at least one person in this argument that will recognize this post:

define lives? i got a new job i dont have to be to till 2 pm everyday so i sleep till about 12 everyday and i cant use my phone and post at this job. then i get reeaally ****ed up on the weekends and useally sleep away one of my days off. and heres my post for the day.

What do you think "Ilovestrippers" from what I've seen you can't keep a job so how is it you own a strip club.

You do talk a lot about strippers on the other sites you visit but you sure don't own a club. How many different jobs have you had in the last year?

Had any crashes lately on your street bike while doing stoppies?

Still have that "Cops" shirt you like to bragg about?

Look Familiar?
http://www.stuntusa.com/forums/customavatars/avatar3681_0.gif

Double Busted!


:o

[asjr39]

Originally posted by AL Elks
http://www.stuntusa.com/forums/customavatars/avatar3681_0.gif

Double Busted!


:o

Hey elks whats the "double busted" mean?

[AL Elks]

Not quite who or what he says he is!

I'm no duner as I have zero experience with paddles but from what I've read on all the the other forums Kracker is right. 20s is the way to go by far!


AL

[asjr39]

Well anyways. I saw on fuelatv's web site and they said if you put the dasa exhaust remove the airlid and put a CB it will add 10HP. true? what does the yoshi withe the other mods add? and can you eliminate the air box all the way? thx

[250r4life]

Originally posted by asjr39
Well anyways. I saw on fuelatv's web site and they said if you put the dasa exhaust remove the airlid and put a CB it will add 10HP. true? what does the yoshi withe the other mods add? and can you eliminate the air box all the way? thx

it could add 10hp, but is that peak or where...? it can help more in certain places than it does in others...

[ltrspeedracer69]

If you use 20inch paddles do you need to change the front sprocket? Or will it be better with a 13 tooth. I have 18's right now but everybody says they are better. I was curious do you do the same with dirt tires?

[250r4life]

well if you change to 20s in the rear, it will be like gearing is higher... so if you want it to be the same and feel the same as what it is now, then yes you would need to change your sprockets... you could go down on the front or up on the rear...

[Hoppedrap]

Originally posted by asjr39
Like I said, my bike runs great. Use what you use and I will use what I use. And you still didnt give me any facts as too why the 20's are better than 18's. You talk but I dont hear anything worth listening too.

Its called rollout! My tires (20" haulers) have a 63" rollout, so for every revolution I travel 63" where as your 18" probably has a 50-55" rollout. My bike is completely different from yours but if you were to race a bike with the same setup and you ran 18's and he ran 20's he would cover more distance.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Hoppedrap
Its called rollout! My tires (20" haulers) have a 63" rollout, so for every revolution I travel 63" where as your 18" probably has a 50-55" rollout. My bike is completely different from yours but if you were to race a bike with the same setup and you ran 18's and he ran 20's he would cover more distance.

yah, but it also gears it higher and has more mass to move...

so what is your point? yah you will cover more distance per revolution but he will have more revolutions per minute...

im missing the point of your post...

[Hoppedrap]

Originally posted by 250r4life
yah, but it also gears it higher and has more mass to move...

so what is your point? yah you will cover more distance per revolution but he will have more revolutions per minute...

im missing the point of your post...

Well then you need to learn to read! He asked why 20's were better then 18's, I specified . How many more revolutions will he have? Will it make up the distance lost with such a small rollout.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Hoppedrap
Well then you need to learn to read! He asked why 20's were better then 18's, I specified . How many more revolutions will he have? Will it make up the distance lost with such a small rollout.

are you not too bright? it has nothing to do with learning to read, and the fact that you wrote that shows you are not too bright... apparently you dont understand it too well... then by your reasoning (or lack thereof) why not go 22 rears- it will have even more rollout then the 20s?

[Hoppedrap]

Originally posted by 250r4life
are you not too bright? it has nothing to do with learning to read, and the fact that you wrote that shows you are not too bright... apparently you dont understand it too well... then by your reasoning (or lack thereof) why not go 22 rears- it will have even more rollout then the 20s?

You are correct 22's would have more rollout then 20's. Did he ask about 22's? He asked a question, I answered it. Was I wrong? Since you are the smartest one here answer the questions I asked. If you would have read his quote then my answer then you would have fiqured out what my point was.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Hoppedrap
You are correct 22's would have more rollout then 20's. Did he ask about 22's? He asked a question, I answered it. Was I wrong? Since you are the smartest one here answer the questions I asked. If you would have read his quote then my answer then you would have fiqured out what my point was.

i know what you were trying to say, but it is neither here nor there...

he asked why the 20s were better than the 18s, and you did not answer that... all you said is that the 20s have a greater circumference than the 18s... kinda obvious dont you think...

there are several factors you are failing to see...

you asked "Will it make up the distance lost with such a small rollout" well, what are you talking about? are you talking about acceleration, 1/8 mile, top speed, what?

with the stock gearing the 18s will out accelerate the 20s... in theory the 20s would have a higher top speed and possibly a better top end, but the bike still has to be able to pull that gearing... with the stock gearing, i highly doubt that the LTR has the power to pull it, so i bet that the 18s would be better in that respect anyway...

you didnt bring up changing gearing, but if you were to run 20s instead of 18s, you should change the gearing... the two sprockets and the size of the tire all work together to determine the gearing, so you could get the exact same gearing and the bike would pull the same with the 20s or the 18s...

now if youre going to claim that the 20s are better, the only real arguments that are relevant are such as"

*the 18s are made for smaller bikes and will not hold up to high HP bikes
*you get more ground clearance with the 20s
*with the 20s the paddles are spaced farther apart and thus perform better in the sand
*the 20s have more tire that can flex and thus grip better on the launch...

none of the arguments have to do with circumference, which is what your argument is... you clearly dont understand...

[250r4life]

where did you go hoppedrapp?

you were here when i posted this and for 10 minutes after it... what, couldnt come up with a response?

c'mon buddy- waiting for your comeback? i am dying to learn... :D

[rancid]

wheels spin in the sand is needed, therefore you stay on top the sand. i had 20 inch scats with 8 paddles, now i have 21 inch 7 paddles and on the hill i love these tires are much nicer.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by rancid
wheels spin in the sand is needed, therefore you stay on top the sand. i had 20 inch scats with 8 paddles, now i have 21 inch 7 paddles and on the hill i love these tires are much nicer.

oh so you mean its not because of the rollout? :D

[Hoppedrap]

If you saw what I was trying to say then why ask what my point was?

he asked why the 20s were better than the 18s, and you did not answer that... all you said is that the 20s have a greater circumference than the 18s... kinda obvious dont you think...

Obviously not, the more ground covered per revolution is important.

you asked "Will it make up the distance lost with such a small rollout" well, what are you talking about? are you talking about acceleration, 1/8 mile, top speed, what?

I assumed we were talking about olds.

you didnt bring up changing gearing, but if you were to run 20s instead of 18s, you should change the gearing... the two sprockets and the size of the tire all work together to determine the gearing, so you could get the exact same gearing and the bike would pull the same with the 20s or the 18s...

To many variables here, weight of riders, state of tune, HP


*the 18s are made for smaller bikes and will not hold up to high HP bikes

If these are extremes they are made for high HP

*you get more ground clearance with the 20s

True


*with the 20s the paddles are spaced farther apart and thus perform better in the sand

Opinion

*the 20s have more tire that can flex and thus grip better on the launch

Huh? a 20x10x10 would have about the same side wall as a 18 x10x8

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Hoppedrap
If you saw what I was trying to say then why ask what my point was?


i understand what you were trying to say, i just dont see any relevance in it...

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Hoppedrap


he asked why the 20s were better than the 18s, and you did not answer that... all you said is that the 20s have a greater circumference than the 18s... kinda obvious dont you think...

Obviously not, the more ground covered per revolution is important.


yes, it could be important but you forget that with a larger circumference and more mass, it requires more force to spin and thus it will rev slower and have a slower top rotation speed.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Hoppedrap


[B]you asked "Will it make up the distance lost with such a small rollout" well, what are you talking about? are you talking about acceleration, 1/8 mile, top speed, what?

I assumed we were talking about olds.

you didnt bring up changing gearing, but if you were to run 20s instead of 18s, you should change the gearing... the two sprockets and the size of the tire all work together to determine the gearing, so you could get the exact same gearing and the bike would pull the same with the 20s or the 18s...

To many variables here, weight of riders, state of tune, HP

]

will it make up the difference? if you leave the sprockets stock than i imagine it would... it really depends on which hill you are running though, or if you were running a hill at all...

for instance, lets say you are running olds and with the 18s you can just barely get 3rd gear wound out all the way... well, if you switched to the 20s you would likely be slower because you would not be able to wind out 3rd all the way with the higher gearing... however, lets say you were running olds in 3rd gear and with the 18s you had it rapped out as far as it could go, but not strong enough to pull 4th... that would imply you had the power just not gearing, and so by gearing it slightly higher with the 20s, you would be able to pull the hill like you should in 3rd and would thus be faster...

weight of riders, state of tune, hp, that is all irrelevant to what i was saying in that part... if you take the same bike, by switching the tires and sprockets, you could gear the bike the same using 18s or 20 in tires... obviously with the 20s you will have to have lower geared sprocket combination than if you were running 18s...

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Hoppedrap

[B]*the 18s are made for smaller bikes and will not hold up to high HP bikes

If these are extremes they are made for high HP

*you get more ground clearance with the 20s

True


*with the 20s the paddles are spaced farther apart and thus perform better in the sand

Opinion
]

ok... i was not arguing these points... i never said that 20s were better than 18s or vice versa... i was saying that youre circumference theory was irrelevant and i was saying these are arguments that could be argued or were being argued that the 20s are superior...

these have basis or are arguable... the fact that 20s have a larger circumference IN AND OF ITSELF is irrelevant

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Hoppedrap


*the 20s have more tire that can flex and thus grip better on the launch

Huh? a 20x10x10 would have about the same side wall as a 18 x10x8

you really dissapointed me with this... this really shows pure ignorance, and i mean that with complete sincerity...

i think it was my freshman year that i learned that in scientific experiments you control everything and change one variable at a time... you do not change two variables... and i imagine i will need to spell this out for you- that would mean comparing a 20x10x8 set up to a 18x10x8 set up... you see- that 1st number is the one variable which we change and we hold all else constant...

the problem with comparing 20x10x10 to 18x10x8, is, you see, the 1st number is different and the last number is different... we have changed two variables... and as Mr Hagan taught me, thats a "no no"

[asjr39]

So I think what I have learned is this, its all about personal preference, and your opinions should'nt matter, only facts. Now I like to argue, especialy about what I am using. By the way I am using 18 scat trac extreme with 8 paddles, and I think they work best for my bike with what I am doing(1/4 drag races) I need acceleration rather than top end speed. But back to what I was saying, I will not argue with 250r, he seems like he knows his *****. And it all depends with what you are gonna do with your bike, and how you set it up.

[honda250xrider]

if you really wanna get tech. you can very easily make 20" tires acc. quicker than the 18" simply change the gearing. Dunes you do not need to be that low to the ground, better surface area with the 20" tires equals more grip and with change of the gearing it will take on a 18" tire, doupt me try it, also we can get into the weight factor, this thread has got no where most people choose to run 20" tires if that tells anybody anything.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by honda250xrider
if you really wanna get tech. you can very easily make 20" tires acc. quicker than the 18" simply change the gearing. Dunes you do not need to be that low to the ground, better surface area with the 20" tires equals more grip and with change of the gearing it will take on a 18" tire, doupt me try it, also we can get into the weight factor, this thread has got no where most people choose to run 20" tires if that tells anybody anything.

just to play devils advocate, how is the 20 in tire going to accelerate quicker than the 18?


and, as i have a feeling of what you are going to say, i will throw out a disclaimer that your answer depends on the sand.. .

and- reverting back to my original claim- it will not be due to a larger rollout...

[250r4life]

ok... well its been a while and he hasnt responded...

i've grown impatient...

well, so far ive played devils advocate and shot down faulty reasoning...

if it was me though, and i owned the LTR. i would go with the 20x10x10 and change up the gearing to compensate...

i would do this for several reasons...

1- i ride more than just the dunes, and in the desert of AZ i would want more ground clearance with my knobbies...
2- i beleive that the 20s are better in the dunes in that they can get and stay on top of the sand better. why? because being that is has a larger circumference, the curve to complete the circle is less sharp and thus puts more surface on the sand, where as the 18s have to make a sharper curve and so would be more prone to sinking into the sand and going down deeper than the 20s... i think this would be the case especially in the softer sand... now this being said, i have never ridden with an 18 in rear... but again, the fact that it has a more gradual cure leaves a larger area to stay on top of the sand, and as has been stated, it is essential to get on top of the sand and have wheel spin...
3- i do not want to have to switch my gearing all the time, and so i would want the same size dune tire as i did knobbies, so that i wouldnt have to keep switching my gearing up...

although it is nothing but opinion- i also think the 18s look stupid, but that is personal preference...

[250r4life]

Originally posted by noworries


Will post a full report after I get back from riding this weekend. Anybody recommend where to order the 18" sand tires?

so where is the report?

[Kracker]

Originally posted by Kracker
The fact that an 18 was designed for a mini. It will just spin and sink in the sand. You will be lucky if it holds together. A bigger tire will stay on top of the sand a lot better. But, you can do what you want. There is a reason that you will be the only one in the dunes with an 18 paddle on a full size bike.

And to think. The answer was on page 2.:D Although, not as detailed as yours 250r.

[ltrspeedracer69]

I understand what you are saying 250r4life. I use the 18inch skat trak extremes but I also own 20inch itp sand stars. When I went to olds last I was using the 18's with a 13tooth sprocket. It seem to wind out too fast. I have put the 14tooth back on but have not been back to olds to try it out with the 14. When I do go back I'm gonna try the 20's with the 13 tooth and the 14 tooth to see the difference. Do you think it matters they are on a 10inch rim though not a 8inch rim?




Can't we all just get along?

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Kracker
And to think. The answer was on page 2.:D Although, not as detailed as yours 250r.

ha ha ha... true...

if you recall i wasnt arguing for one or another... i was just kicking back side busting and playing devils advocate and calling out misconceptions... decided i would wait a while before throwing in mu $.02

i love a good debate...

[250r4life]

Originally posted by ltrspeedracer69
I understand what you are saying 250r4life. I use the 18inch skat trak extremes but I also own 20inch itp sand stars. When I went to olds last I was using the 18's with a 13tooth sprocket. It seem to wind out too fast. I have put the 14tooth back on but have not been back to olds to try it out with the 14. When I do go back I'm gonna try the 20's with the 13 tooth and the 14 tooth to see the difference. Do you think it matters they are on a 10inch rim though not a 8inch rim?


no... the difference in rim size is more of a strength and looks question, but not really performance... some people will say with the 8 there is more tire and will flex and get better grip off the launch, but i think its way minimal if any and i run my paddles with so much PSI that me personally i dont think it would effect it at all.. .

[Hoppedrap]

Originally posted by 250r4life
you really dissapointed me with this... this really shows pure ignorance, and i mean that with complete sincerity...

i think it was my freshman year that i learned that in scientific experiments you control everything and change one variable at a time... you do not change two variables... and i imagine i will need to spell this out for you- that would mean comparing a 20x10x8 set up to a 18x10x8 set up... you see- that 1st number is the one variable which we change and we hold all else constant...

the problem with comparing 20x10x10 to 18x10x8, is, you see, the 1st number is different and the last number is different... we have changed two variables... and as Mr Hagan taught me, thats a "no no"

Then you should have said 20x10x8, I was comparing mine to his. And I let it slide the first few post but the personal attacks are getting old. Disagree with my post fine but watch the attacks!

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Hoppedrap
Then you should have said 20x10x8, I was comparing mine to his. And I let it slide the first few post but the personal attacks are getting old. Disagree with my post fine but watch the attacks!

no... i should not have had to say that... that is why i made the ignorant comment...

if i recall after my 1st comment on your post that i said i didnt understand the point of your post, i think you snapped back and told me that i needed to learn how to read...
i dont see how what i said was much different... different words i guess...

but whatever... I apologize if you took it personally or if I was attacking you personally... I just have fun on this site, and I know I probably come across as a D a lot, but Im really a pretty kick back guy and a lot of the stuff I write when i sound like an A hole, it is in a joking mode and i have a smile on my face...

like i said man, im here just for fun, and dont mean to make things personal, even though i may mess around and do or do come across like that... my bad...

[Hoppedrap]

Originally posted by 250r4life
no... i should not have had to say that... that is why i made the ignorant comment...

if i recall after my 1st comment on your post that i said i didnt understand the point of your post, i think you snapped back and told me that i needed to learn how to read...
i dont see how what i said was much different... different words i guess...

but whatever... I apologize if you took it personally or if I was attacking you personally... I just have fun on this site, and I know I probably come across as a D a lot, but Im really a pretty kick back guy and a lot of the stuff I right when i sound like an A hole, it is in a joking mode and i have a smile on my face...

like i said man, im here just for fun, and dont mean to make things personal, even though i may mess around and do or do come across like that... my bad...

I can see were never going to see eye to eye, since you seem to be as stuborn as me.

The only problems I had with your posts was the fact that you deemed it neccesary to try to belittle me to get your point across.
Bringing in your science teacher is all well in good but we both know that your science teacher would have set the parameters for a comparison, 20" tires come in lot of different wheels sizes.

I will take partial blame because I should have deleved more into my original post, but being at work and trying to do two things at once gets hectic.

One thing we can agree on is that this whole thread is based on opinions unless some wants to try each scenario out.

Fun while it lasted Touche!!

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Hoppedrap
I can see were never going to see eye to eye, since you seem to be as stuborn as me.

The only problems I had with your posts was the fact that you deemed it neccesary to try to belittle me to get your point across.
Bringing in your science teacher is all well in good but we both know that your science teacher would have set the parameters for a comparison, 20" tires come in lot of different wheels sizes.

One thing we can agree on is that this whole thread is based on opinions unless some wants to try each scenario out.



ha ha... again, although i am serious about my points or ideas, i bring them across in an unserious way with messing with people or whatever... its meant in a playfull tone, but doesnt always come across that way...

i will be honest though and say that i dont agree that it is based entirely on opinion... with the exception of uglyness or any place else where i put a opinion disclaimer, i beleive any other argument i posted can be traced back to logic, reason, or fact... in addition to experience.

[250r4life]

and just on a side note... i am an extremely competitive guy, and although you can probably find instances where i have responded like a punk when i have been unprovoked, i think your whole "learn how to read" provoked me and i take it as a challenge and my competitive nature kicks in...

nothing personal man... if i saw you at olds i'd kick it and talk with ya, talk about bikes, have a few friendly races, just have a good time...

[Kracker]

Originally posted by 250r4life
no... the difference in rim size is more of a strength and looks question, but not really performance...

Not true. A.....(for example) 20x10x8 tire/rim will out perform a 20x10x10 tire/rim. Less rotating mass. And if you want to go further, instead of putting that tire on a 8x8 rim, put it on a 8x7 or 8x6 rim and will be even faster. I see that you are playing devils advocate, and have a true knowledge of the subject. I like it. Presidents day at Glamis.....Let's put ALL these senerios to the test.:D

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Kracker
Not true. A.....(for example) 20x10x8 tire/rim will out perform a 20x10x10 tire/rim. Less rotating mass. And if you want to go further, instead of putting that tire on a 8x8 rim, put it on a 8x7 or 8x6 rim and will be even faster. I see that you are playing devils advocate, and have a true knowledge of the subject. I like it. Presidents day at Glamis.....Let's put ALL these senerios to the test.:D

how so (in respect to the rim)? now i understand that less rim eqauls less rim, but in this particular case rim is simply replaced with rubber... in the particular instance of haulers, where they are pretty dang light, you could very well be correct, although i think differences would be extremely minimal... considering on rubber paddles that are heavier, and running a lighter wheel such as .125, i dont think the difference would be much at all if any... these are just hunches, but i would bet that weighing these options wouldnt show tons of difference...

unfortunately- i will be at Gordons Well over Presidents Day and not at Glamis... well, i dont know how that is unfortunate... unfortunate would be staying at home :D

[honda250xrider]

this has turned into a huge long opion thread, why i said 20's can acc. faster than 18's well i think i said it in the post before i posted that one, but simply gearing that is what it really boils down to i was just trying to add that 20's can and will acc. faster if you have the right gearing and so forth. everyone is just so limited to there own ideas, i was just trying tell anyone no matter what you choose you can still acc the same as an 18" tire, if you choose 18 you could acc faster than a 20 depending on gearing but limited to top speed. that is that..., no matter what you get you will still go in the sand, so to end this matter just pick whatever tire you feel happy with this thread has turned into a battle. next were gonna have rocket scientist's on here explaining all the theorys lol

[R3Concepts]

Originally posted by Kracker
Not true. A.....(for example) 20x10x8 tire/rim will out perform a 20x10x10 tire/rim. Less rotating mass. And if you want to go further, instead of putting that tire on a 8x8 rim, put it on a 8x7 or 8x6 rim and will be even faster. I see that you are playing devils advocate, and have a true knowledge of the subject. I like it. Presidents day at Glamis.....Let's put ALL these senerios to the test.:D

Not true again. Skats in particular the carcass of the tire grows, or becomes a larger rollout at higher speeds for better terms. On a 8x7 or 8x6 you reduce the contact patch, thus making the rollout even greater to begin with and with the additional growth makes the contact patch even smaller and begins to become, whats known as, a "wasted hit" meaning that the paddle is not providing the drive that the original contact patch would.

Good to see you will be at Glamis Presidents Day, Id like to come introduce myself. We havent exactly been fans of each other.

Mabe its the rider?

[250r4life]

Originally posted by R3Concepts

Good to see you will be at Glamis Presidents Day, Id like to come introduce myself. We havent exactly been fans of each other.

ha ha... man i wish i was going to be there instead of Gordons Well- we could have some pretty intense races...

[250r4life]

Originally posted by honda250xrider
this has turned into a huge long opion thread, why i said 20's can acc. faster than 18's well i think i said it in the post before i posted that one, but simply gearing that is what it really boils down to i was just trying to add that 20's can and will acc. faster if you have the right gearing and so forth. everyone is just so limited to there own ideas, i was just trying tell anyone no matter what you choose you can still acc the same as an 18" tire, if you choose 18 you could acc faster than a 20 depending on gearing but limited to top speed. that is that..., no matter what you get you will still go in the sand, so to end this matter just pick whatever tire you feel happy with this thread has turned into a battle. next were gonna have rocket scientist's on here explaining all the theorys lol

what are you talking about? what is an opion? :D

you still havent said why the 20s will out accelerate the 18s? you can have the exact same overall gearing using either of the tires, so assuming the same gearing, why is the 20 going to out accelerate the 18?

and no, some of us have argued fact- you have argued opinion and have stated claims with no backing...

[250r4life]

R3- when you going to be at gordons well again- i would like to get a few races in against your LTR

[R3Concepts]

I dont go to Gordons anymore. The LTR will be for sale soon, building a 700R.

But we will be at Glamis Presidents Day.

[honda250xrider]

read what i said more closely i said with the RIGHT gearing the 20's can and will out acc the 18's. and i said with the right gearing the 18's will out acc the 20's so you tell me... simply as i stated its all about gearing any tire will work as long as you regear or what not for it. there is little facts about this just choose what you want to use...... you took what i said out of context i was not comparing the same gearing as i stated that the 18 will out acc the 20's so..... this thread is pretty much ending on the terms of choose whatever tire you want no matter you will still be able to go. I personally recommend the 20's. others may differ but hey to each there own right........ i have only stated one opionion that i know of. and that was i recommend 20's. now fact is that gearing does make the difference...... like i said you can get 20's to acc faster than 18, and you can get 18 to out acc 20's with the right gearing. that was my main point in posting that is that the final outcome is the gearing you choose. unless you want to challenge that.....

[z400roosteR]

Originally posted by 250r4life
uh oh... busted... sounds like somebody will be creating a new name...
I hope your certainly not referring to me...I do have an outside life from this forum and i don't sit on here day and night like you. So if it makes you feel any better i am going to say you won your childish little internet bout. Congrats now get off your computer and go outside.

And again i do not need to build up my ego on an internet forum like you and post every bike i have along with every bike in the past...Your soo cool, you had several bikes..:rolleyes:

[ltrspeedracer69]

It sounds like he was talking to the sripper lover buddy. Calm down !

[250r4life]

Originally posted by R3Concepts
I dont go to Gordons anymore. The LTR will be for sale soon, building a 700R.



how come... what made you decide to do that (both gordons and the LTR)?

[250r4life]

Originally posted by honda250xrider
read what i said more closely i said with the RIGHT gearing the 20's can and will out acc the 18's. and i said with the right gearing the 18's will out acc the 20's so you tell me... simply as i stated its all about gearing any tire will work as long as you regear or what not for it. there is little facts about this just choose what you want to use...... you took what i said out of context i was not comparing the same gearing as i stated that the 18 will out acc the 20's so..... this thread is pretty much ending on the terms of choose whatever tire you want no matter you will still be able to go. I personally recommend the 20's. others may differ but hey to each there own right........ i have only stated one opionion that i know of. and that was i recommend 20's. now fact is that gearing does make the difference...... like i said you can get 20's to acc faster than 18, and you can get 18 to out acc 20's with the right gearing. that was my main point in posting that is that the final outcome is the gearing you choose. unless you want to challenge that.....

no... my bad... i misunderstood your previous post- it wasnt too clear to me...

[250r4life]

Originally posted by z400roosteR
I hope your certainly not referring to me...I do have an outside life from this forum and i don't sit on here day and night like you. So if it makes you feel any better i am going to say you won your childish little internet bout. Congrats now get off your computer and go outside.

And again i do not need to build up my ego on an internet forum like you and post every bike i have along with every bike in the past...Your soo cool, you had several bikes..:rolleyes:

i wasnt talking about you... as has been posted- i was talking about the stripper idiot...

let me tell ya- it really boosts my ego... i just wouldnt have any self esteem at all if it wasnt for this forum... :D

and you're right- i did win, cuz you are full of shiz- you're not a 450 killer, your 400 is the best bike you own, and it isnt a 450 killer either...

you know, if whatever you are doing right now doesnt pan out, im sure you could have great success as the poster child for birth control... :devil:

[quadfamily]

Romper room is over now children.......