Linkage vs no linkage

[Architects]

Alright I'm curious why some 450r shock conversions recommend a linkage and some don't. C&D, TCS, 4-play racing, and I am sure there are others do not run a rear shock linkage. Other companies like Derisi, Gtthunder, JH racing all recommend a rear shock linkage. Is there an advantage or disadvantage. to running or not running a linkage?

[bradley300]

well, all of them run a linkage, just some like c and d use the stock one.

to answer the question, you need to tell what builder your going with. if your going with c and d, a aftermarket linkage probably wont be as good as the stock link, because all of thier r&d is done with a stock link. GT Thunder does lots of r&d with thier own linkage because they think they can get the valving more precise with a linkage they designed for a certain progression ratio.

the short answer is do what the builder you go with tells you

[Colby@C&DRacing]

Originally posted by bradley300
well, all of them run a linkage, just some like c and d use the stock one.

to answer the question, you need to tell what builder your going with. if your going with c and d, a aftermarket linkage probably wont be as good as the stock link, because all of thier r&d is done with a stock link. GT Thunder does lots of r&d with thier own linkage because they think they can get the valving more precise with a linkage they designed for a certain progression ratio.

the short answer is do what the builder you go with tells you

This is true. There are advantages and disadvantages to both setups. You do not want to run a shock setup for one linkage on another . The motion and wheel ratios are different and the shock will not perform correctly. All the companies that do shock conversion are striving to do one thing make your suspension ride and handle better at a fair price.

[KingpinsEx]

Ok this makes sense but where does the term "no link" come from if they are in fact using linkage? So basically an aftermarket linkage is thus called "no link"? Just odd terminology to me but it makes sense, so like the CR 500 no link that some quads run is just the linkage used off the dirtbike?

[ThePhantomRider]

If you talk to the major shock builders like Bilstein, Fox etc, you will find that they feel that the OEM linkage's are probably the best setup when you run a stock swingarm and feel the shock should be built to work best with that setup.

Other builders try to reinvent the wheel with a new linkage, most of which eliminate the rising rate and go with somthing that actually swings away from the pivot which means whatever shock you run needs to be set up for that link or else bad things will happen.

TPR

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by KingpinsEx
Ok this makes sense but where does the term "no link" come from if they are in fact using linkage? So basically an aftermarket linkage is thus called "no link"? Just odd terminology to me but it makes sense, so like the CR 500 no link that some quads run is just the linkage used off the dirtbike?

No that is completely different. Those setups really run NO linkage. The shock is bolted directly to the swingarm, as to why this might be better or worse Im not sure, but I've seen quite a few quads that were like that.

[ThePhantomRider]

There were several places that attempted to make quads like the 250r No Link feeling they would do better with it. That has pretty much faded as each quad is designed a certian way from the factory.

It's taken KTM years of development to get their no-link to work. The DS 650 is no link as well.

TPR

[Architects]

Sorry guys I should have been more clear. When I meant no link I meant stock.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by Architects
Sorry guys I should have been more clear. When I meant no link I meant stock.

Yeah the DS 650.

Im not too sure what else is like that.

I know dave porter who writes for ********.com and races my district has a no link setup on his crf450 hybrid with gibson/fox evol front end. Apparently he thinks its still the way to go, and Im sure you can buy a frame/swingarm setup from him the same way. PRP is the business name if anyone wants to check it out.

[ThePhantomRider]

Since we realize that he was talking about wether or not certian companies require an aftermarket link or the stock link, I would like to add this off topic comment:

I am by no means a suspension tech, guru or expert, but what I have learned is that in order to run a "No Link" setup, the entire chassis needs to be designed around that. That goes with this comment that I have spoken to expert shock builders and most agree that changing the linkage either to a different rising rate or going completely no link requires that a change in swingarm length and or a redesigned chassis would be where the benefit would work the best.

Keeping the stock swingarm and chassis, go with the factory link, you'll find that the manufacturers are pretty good at figuring out what works best with what and those that use them tend to build a pretty darn good shock without the added expense of someone's linkage.

TPR

[pudamac12]

this is true on most quads except the 450r's. the way it is setup the shocks builders have to build in a lot more rebound then they should have to.

[KingpinsEx]

I see that elka often bundles an aftermarket linkage as part of there shock deals. Is this because they are long travel or just that they feel their linkage is superior for thier type of shock??

[Linkin24]

here you go.

http://www.gtthunder.com/Suspensions.htm