480 kit questions

[TMSmx47]

Hey guys whats up. A buddy of mine used an ATHENA 480 last season and now is gonna change the piston... My quetion is for you 480 owners, where can we pick up a higher comp piston? Looking for 13 or 14:1... All your help is appreciated!!

I heard HammerHedz may have a 14:1 but we're not sure where to find a HH piston??

[ghott]

http://www.kbratv.com

or

http://www.kylebaldwinracing.com/

or

http://www.trx450r.org/forum/index.php?showforum=77

[370kingR]

Hammer Hedz are now Venom pistons. I absolutly gaurantee there is not a better piston out there no matter what all the haters say. Made by the best company, CP, and with as many upgrades and inovations as you can put into a state of the art piston. Go get you one.....

[hdwrench]

We use CP pistons in all the engines we build. We have tried many others but they are the best. From low compression, to turbo, bottle fed engines, to big inch full on drag engines in the 200 + cubic inch range v-twin they work like none other.

We tried running JE and they are hit or miss. Sorry but when you are spending 30K on a drag engine hit or miss does not get it.

[blown331]

another vote for anything CP.

We run them in our 1,100 hp shop car and not a single problem

also run them in my wifes 600 horse mustang

CP > *

[TMSmx47]

Lol.. Well I guess its unanimous then :eek2: .. CP it is.. Thanks a bunch guys for the reply! :macho

[bigz-71]

Who sells CP piston kits?

[TMSmx47]

I would click one of the links above by ghott.. The third one that takes you to the ORG is prob your best shot.. Ask KBR

[hdwrench]

well you can get in touch with them direct 1-949-567-9000 I deal with Snake for the harley stuff not sure who does the import side. But you can order a piston as a custom version as well. Coatings, interanl milling to reduce weight further, lateral gas ports, accumulator grooves to reduce ring flutter, double pin oilers. the list goes on and on. SOme of the items may be normal others may not. They are by far the best to deal with and custom pistons can be bought one at a time no minimum order, and there set up fees are very small. Plus they keep it on file so if you need another not a issue.


www.cppistons.com

[sandmanblue]

There is a difference between the CP shelf pistons and the BW/Hammerhedz/Venom pistons. The designer of the BW pistons made modifications to them in several ways, so it's not like you can call CP and get the same thing.

[ghott]

Originally posted by sandmanblue
There is a difference between the CP shelf pistons and the BW/Hammerhedz/Venom pistons. The designer of the BW pistons made modifications to them in several ways, so it's not like you can call CP and get the same thing.

They have lateral gas ports, coated skirts, forced pin oilers, nitrided ring packs and all that good stuff.

Seems like a very solid design...however, I have no first hand experience with them.

[TMSmx47]

How bout comp ratios? KBR is sayin either 12.25:1 or 14:1.. If you go direct to CP you think other comp ratios are available?

I think 13:1 would be a perfect set-up and then go with a HC3 in my opinion.. Just curious if anyones done this yet?

[ghott]

I know that CP has 12:1 and 13.5:1 shelf pistons...not sure about 13:1.

JE offers a 13:1, and Wiseco offers a 13.1:1.

[buck naked-r]

Originally posted by sandmanblue
There is a difference between the CP shelf pistons and the BW/Hammerhedz/Venom pistons. The designer of the BW pistons made modifications to them in several ways, so it's not like you can call CP and get the same thing.

this 100% wrong

ALL CP piston have the same feature..........ONLY DIFFERENCE in the bw is the cut outs in the dome.......so this designer you speak of is taking credit for things he DID NOT design.

[hdwrench]

any info on the anthena 510 kit???

[chad502ex]

CP Pistons are good, I have a NIB 450 13.5:1 race that I'm selling cheap... sorry off-topic..

as far as the BW design, nothing special about that piston that you can't get off the shelf from CP.

accumulator groove
lateral gas port
anti-detonation groove
dual forced pin oilers
side skirt coating

all shelf 'options'


Buck is correct, the designer claimed that he invented the scavenging channels,.. the patent office was real quick to deny that claim upon reading that application....

[chris46250r]

Originally posted by buck naked-r
this 100% wrong

ALL CP piston have the same feature..........ONLY DIFFERENCE in the bw is the cut outs in the dome.......so this designer you speak of is taking credit for things he DID NOT design.

Actually you are wrong. Get one of each and compare. You must be trying to get the biggest idoit award on every site you get own.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by chris46250r
Actually you are wrong. Get one of each and compare. You must be trying to get the biggest idoit award on every site you get own.

not getting in the middle of you two, but buck is saying that the designer claimed to invent the scavenging channels in the piston dome, and tried to patent it, and the Patent office denied the application immediately because this 'option' had already been designed. This is FACT!

[chris46250r]

That info I dont know, it just sounded that he said the two were the same just different boxes.

[chris46250r]

I dont have either piston so I'm not biased in anyway. I hate my 450r so I dont plan on buying any piston for it. I just have a good memory of the way buck acts from all of his names on all of the sites.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by chris46250r
That info I dont know, it just sounded that he said the two were the same just different boxes.

real close,..

I have the 13:5:1 CP race piston. As far as I can tell, the main difference between the CP Race Piston and the CP shelf piston for the 04 450R is that the CP Race piston has a taller compression height (more squish and half point of compression increase) than the CP Shelf piston. Also, the CP Race piston is 2 ringer and the shelf is a 3 ringer. Not sure about weight or skirt length between these two.


Comparing the BW to the CP Race, I see a half point of compression gain being the only 'option' advantage between these two. The BW designer frequently mentions Nitride rings,.. I'm not sure if the Nitride rings are available on the CP Race or not..

seems like a CP Race piston with a laser etch logo to me...

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by chris46250r
I dont have either piston so I'm not biased in anyway. I hate my 450r so I dont plan on buying any piston for it. I just have a good memory of the way buck acts from all of his names on all of the sites.

no worries. You are entitled to your feelings.. we all have them.

its kewl.

[sandmanblue]

Originally posted by buck naked-r
this 100% wrong

ALL CP piston have the same feature..........ONLY DIFFERENCE in the bw is the cut outs in the dome.......so this designer you speak of is taking credit for things he DID NOT design.

Whatever - The fact is that you can call KBR and get the BW piston. You'd have to special order a similar thing from CP and unless you have the drawing for the dome, you won't get the same thing anyway...

Compression is good, the more the better. The extra 0.5 point is worth another hp or so. It wouldn't make sense to buy a 13.5 and have to special order it from CP, now would it?

I'm not going into who took credit for what. Don't care.


I am not even sure that piston will fit the Athena jug. I do know that there hasn't been any negative reports of the BW piston and I do know that people have run it with other mods in excess of 16:1 compression, and in another quad, with a 24 shot of nitrous. The pistons hold up. So regardless of who designed what and which patent is blah, blah, I will still recommend it highly.

Buck, Chad, I'm not interested in getting into any beef you guys may have.

FWIW, I could have recommended the guy call ATP and get their JE built 14.5:1 piston, but I don't know if they are making it in BB sizes. Somebody would have to call ATP to find out.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by sandmanblue
[B] and which patent is blah, blah, I will still recommend it highly.



bla, bla, bla,...

[ricks450]

Originally posted by hdwrench
any info on the anthena 510 kit??? didnt know they made a 510 kit. i would like to hear some info to.

[buck naked-r]

Originally posted by chris46250r
I dont have either piston so I'm not biased in anyway. I hate my 450r so I dont plan on buying any piston for it. I just have a good memory of the way buck acts from all of his names on all of the sites.
you don't own or have had either piston but yet you open your mouth anyway:ermm:

how i act is i tell the truth about things and some don't want that...it would be bad for business..;)

[chris46250r]

I dont have to own anything to be able to see it. And you seem to tell what you think you know.Based own your track record of dud engines I wouldn't want your help anyway.

[hdwrench]

I am waiting to get info on the 510 kit will post when I know more. Mine runs great but is due for pston and ring set, as well I am going to replace the crank before summer hits. I do not think at this time I am going to go stroker, I may though will have to see. Money is not the issue, and a bump to the 500 range would be more than enough for me.

[sandmanblue]

Originally posted by chad502ex
bla, bla, bla,...


??????????????
:confused: :confused:

Was there a point or a question in that reply?

[chad502ex]

my reply was to your 'bla, bla' comment to the facts.. and also to your connecting Bucks issues with me which I didn't appreciate...

I didn't appreciate your response to my posting or that connection suggesting that I have some 'beef' to pick. My posting in this thread was to present the facts.

[sandmanblue]

Originally posted by chad502ex
my reply was to your 'bla, bla' comment to the facts.. and also to your connecting Bucks issues with me which I didn't appreciate...

I didn't appreciate your response to my posting or that connection suggesting that I have some 'beef' to pick. My posting in this thread was to present the facts.

That's fine. You can state them as you know them. Like I said, I'm not interested in getting into anything. Okeee dokeee?

[Smidgy]

fight fight fight

[chris46250r]

Heres a solution for any and everybody, buy whatever piston you think is best. If you think CP and BW are the same, buy which ever one is cheaper. If you think wiseco is better you can get them anywhere. If you secretly know that one from a Pinto will work better, run it. Every piston made has crossed the finish line in first place somewhere.

[sandmanblue]

Originally posted by Smidgy
fight fight fight

You funny guy Sally, that's why I kill you last...

[TMSmx47]

lol.. Daam.. I hope I didnt start a war here! I was just curious cuz I had no idea what was what or made by whom. You all def answered my question though! Thanks!

From what I make of all this is WISECOs are junk and wont hold up, JE can be hit or miss you never know, but CP seems to be a quality manufacturer wether its CP, BW, HH, Venom or however many other names they have..:rolleyes:

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by TMSmx47
lol.. Daam.. I hope I didnt start a war here! I was just curious cuz I had no idea what was what or made by whom. You all def answered my question though! Thanks!

From what I make of all this is WISECOs are junk and wont hold up, JE can be hit or miss you never know, but CP seems to be a quality manufacturer wether its CP, BW, HH, Venom or however many other names they have..:rolleyes:

As far as the JE hit or miss, that's just nutzs!

The CP gurus actually left JE a few years back to start CP..

I can attest that JE is using high tech forging techniques unlike no other, you'll see real soon ;)

[hdwrench]

Well we build over 200 engines a year and we no longer use JE for a reason, now we do not build import engines so maybe they work better in that set up. From the stock engines to nitro we use CP. That is only my opinion, others out there love the JE , I know the staff at CP and as well know that many of them where at other places before CP. But really that has no effect as CP pistons are not JE or any other. Really I think it would be hard to get a piston for the normal application that was junk. As a builder you get something that works and you like it and you stay with it.

From our standpoint they are much easier to deal with for custom pistons than others out there. And again our appilcation is much different than these honda engines.

AS for getting a piston to a certain comp ratio, pick your flavor and then mill it down if needed. Cost for that is very little, as you should be checking head volume, ptdc, and ptdv when you are building. Just because a piston company states it will offer a certain comp ratio does not mean you have that unless you go through the steps to check.

With high compression checking squish is another step that should not go unchecked.

[german-z400]

i have the 480 athena kit too.

now it have 30 hours running (MX)

how long can i ride, before i must change the piston?

(engine have 10.7:1 compression, hotcam, CT exhaust, RST airbox)

[TRX450R014]

Quote:From what I make of all this is WISECOs are junk and wont hold up,

Really?I've had my Wiseco 13.1 in my 450R for 2 years now and
it's still going strong.

Wiseco junk.....too funny.

[hdwrench]

After talking to Cam at Venom I think I will end up with a stroker set up sounds good price wise not too bad. As I have the 04 I am wanting to toss the stock crank before having a issue. 519 kit sound like some fun

[sandmanblue]

Originally posted by hdwrench
After talking to Cam at Venom I think I will end up with a stroker set up sounds good price wise not too bad. As I have the 04 I am wanting to toss the stock crank before having a issue. 519 kit sound like some fun

Their 501 kit is making some serious power. Enough to take a couple 1st's at the FSW.... What kind of cost did you find for the stroker setup? I think there would be more than a couple people here that want to know...

[hdwrench]

I ended up going with the 501 kit, as for pricing, being that I am in the buisness there are some price cuts. Cam" owner" is very nice and the retail price of the kit is still not overly priced like others.