How to tell what year CR igntion you've got

[ChvyCruzen]

I stumbled upon this myself and I found out an easy way to tell which is which. I did a search and see that others have had this question too. I'd figure I would put it out here.

'99 and later CR models are analog
'00 and newer CR models are digital

If you were to look at a microfiche of the left crankcase cover you will see the stator assembly shown along with the CDI box.

Here is a '99 CR diagram 99 Left Crankcase Cover (http://images.powersportsnetwork.com/fiche/images/Honda/1999/Motorcycles/2294_LEFT%20CRANKCASE%20COVER.gif)

Look at the connectors coming off the stator coils. There are 2 and the way they plug into the CDI box.

Here is a '00 CR diagram
00 Left Crankcase Cover (http://images.powersportsnetwork.com/fiche/images/Honda/2000/Motorcycles/2295_LEFT%20CRANKCASE%20COVER.gif)

Look at the connectors coming off this one and the way it plugs into the CDI box as well.

This is pretty much how you can visually confirm which year it is. As for wiring (a digital CDI) it up, it's a piece of cake. Green is ground! Black and yellow wire plugs into the coil. Green wire with ring on it should be bolted to a shiny metal spot on frame. The other connection from the coil has to go to ground, completes the circuit. The kill switch is tapped into the black and yellow wire. As for the black and white wires, i have no idea what they are so I taped it and it works fine. Kill switch works too.

Hope this helps everyone
Matt

[deathman53]

that isn't how mine is, the big plug is for the cdi, two wires w/ round push-in are for the kill switch, loop attaches to the coil ground and flat connector attaches to the coil.

[ChvyCruzen]

Sounds like you are using the black and black with white for the kill switch. I should try swapping mine out to that and see what happens.

[jas250r]

i justed picked on up. How do you tell if you have a 2000, or a 2001? Or does it matter, both are digital? Just different timing curves between those 2 years. Can't seem to figure this one out.

[ChvyCruzen]

I didnt know that '00 and '01 had different timing curves. If they do then I have no idea how to tell.

[jas250r]

i called esr and asked them, as i order some stuff. if you have a kz3v it's a 2001, and i have a kz3t so i guess it's a 2000. Anybody know or have tried both years to see if you can feel the difference? I'am going to check my friends 250 to see what year cr cdi he has.

[ChvyCruzen]

Did ESR say what the difference was between the 2?
I'll have to check mine tonight and see what I have.

[C-LEIGH RACING]

I didnt know there was a timming curve change between the 2000 & the 2001 models, but if you ask which model to get, its allway said the 2001 & up. I know the 2000 model is digital just like the newer models.
Neil

[WareRacing]

Ok.... so how do you hook up the kill switch?
my wiring has a black and a black with a white stripe.

My kill switch has one wire with the male/female split and the other wire is the ground loop.
I still havent hooked it up but was going to try tonight..

[ChvyCruzen]

All I know is that the kill switch needs one wire to ground and one into something else.

I plan to play around with this a little today. I I have an extra tether kill switch, I will try using that and see what happens. My method on the coils works fine though, as soon as you pull the clip the motor dies right out.

[ChvyCruzen]

I just looked at the microfiche of a kill switch for 01 cr250 and by looking at the connectors it is obvious that the black and black with white wires are kill switch wires. So try it one way, if it doesnt work, swap them and then you should be golden :cool:

[C-LEIGH RACING]

Most CR ignition wiring harnesses have an extra wire, a female end for the kill switch.
The black wire with the white stripe is your main ignition wire going to the CDI box. You could sprig a wire off of that wire, but it would need to be a soldier in wire connection & then put a connector end onto the end of that wire.
Be sure to look over the kill switch as well. If its a Pro Design kill switch, those wires comming off of it can confuse you.
The one wire the comes out of the little pull out piece, where you pull out when incerting the teather clip, that with needs to hook to the ignition wire & the other wire hooks to a grounding point.
IF IF, you hook it up backwards, the metal end on the switch becomes LIVE, & soon or latter will let you know in a big way, be it through the handle bars, pulling in the clutch lever, or just fumbling around while the engine is running & happen to touch it in the wrong place.
I can tell you first hand what it feels like when you are for some reason pushing the bike backwards, revving the throttle keeping the bike running, & then grab it with your left hand unknowinlly, you will feel a wet sencation in your pants from where it shocked the PEE out of you.
Lesson learned.
Neil

[C-LEIGH RACING]

Matt,
I need you to do a little research leg work on some ignition systems, you seam to have found the difference in the systems no body before has bothered to check into.

I need to know from the oem mycrofish how many parts of the CR250R ignition are the same parts as the CR500R ignition system. Most importantly the flywheel & the stator plate.
Thanks Neil

[ChvyCruzen]

Sure thing. I'll look into that today and see what I come up with. I am a member of a 500 forum (I own a 86 CR500) and I remember seeing somewhere that the flywheel and stator plate from 250 works on the 500.

Are you thinking of using a CR500 igntion system to compensate for the weight? I also remember hearing the 250 igntion is a little bit more superior to the 500.

Maybe I should just try taking my CR5 igntion off and putting it on mine. I have no idea what the timing curve is like though.
Matt

[C-LEIGH RACING]

OOOOOOHH goody goody if it does cause I got something up my sleeve.
Thanks Neil

[matt250r21]

Neil keep us posted, this sounds interesting.

[jas250r]

i tried that cr ignition out. I set the timing as far retarded as it would go. all i can say is who needs headlights!

[ChvyCruzen]

How do you retard/advance your timing on a CR ignition?

[deathman53]

you adjust the stator on the adapter plate. the bottom hole is small and the top hole is ovaled, with the screw to the back of the oval, its advanced, front-retarded and middle is somewhat advanced of what a 88/89 250r ignition is.

[ChvyCruzen]

So advancing the ignition will cause the engine to be more likely to detonate - if advanced too much right? Adds hp right?

Retarding will remove possibilty of detonation but reduces hp and increases torque right?

[C-LEIGH RACING]

Matt,
The ESR mounting plates for the CR ignition, if you rotate the CR stator plate completely to the left (counter clockwise) & lock it down & then check the timming with a timming light, the timming will still be about 5* addvance.
I dont know why for sure but the ESR mounting plates only have a hole for each mounting bolt to the cases, not slotted like a CT Racing adapter plates are. I guess those plate are like that because ESR does alot of alky engine that need alot of addvance timming & never changed the machining process to add those slots. Would be nice if ESR would tell somebody.
Neil

[ChvyCruzen]

Maybe I could mill the plate and make my own slots?

[ChvyCruzen]

Neil -
I posted in my 500 forum and one guy claimed his friend was running the TRX 250R stator and cdi in his 500. I think that means STOCK FOR STOCK, the 250 and 500 flywheels are the same size (im not sure about shaft, but where it wraps around the stator coils).

I dont know, and dont think, a 500 flywheel will bolt on a 250. I do think that the stator coils, ignition coils and POSSIBLY the CDI works.

When I break out the dirt bike for the season I'll try seeing what stuff works. I dont know if a 01 (last year made) CR500 has a digital igntion or not. I could ask about that if you want. Keep in mind, the CR5 is different stroke and bore - the timing curve is probably different on their CDI than a 250 CDI. However, guys on a 500 sometimes use a 250 CDI box on their 500.
Matt

[ChvyCruzen]

Neil
I just found out some more information. A complete 250 ignition (stator, flywheel, coil and cdi) will bolt up to a 500. Most guys change their CDI to the 250 because they feel it has better power up top.

So you probably could run a 500 flywheel and stator with a 250 CDI.

I hope this answers what you're lookin for.
Matt

[jas250r]

a friend that drags has a cr500 setup in a dirtbike/trike setup and he switch to the cr250 ignition for the higher output on the spark.

[matt250r21]

I have the ESR CR set up, and like Deathman53 said, you adjust the timming by moving the Honda part on the ESR adapter plate. You move the top bolt position. Has nothing to do with the 3 mounting points on the ESR adapter plate that bolts to the engine case.

Neil, dose the CT adapter plate adjust the timming more then is possible on the ESR setup? I read in your post that the 3 mounting points that bolt the CT adapter plate to the case are slotted. So it would seem to me that one could adjust the timming not only with the one top bolt on the Honda part, but also on the CT adapter plate that bols to the case at 3 points as well. Am I getting this right?

[C-LEIGH RACING]

Originally posted by matt250r21
I have the ESR CR set up, and like Deathman53 said, you adjust the timming by moving the Honda part on the ESR adapter plate. You move the top bolt position. Has nothing to do with the 3 mounting points on the ESR adapter plate that bolts to the engine case.

Neil, dose the CT adapter plate adjust the timming more then is possible on the ESR setup? I read in your post that the 3 mounting points that bolt the CT adapter plate to the case are slotted. So it would seem to me that one could adjust the timming not only with the one top bolt on the Honda part, but also on the CT adapter plate that bols to the case at 3 points as well. Am I getting this right?

Yes that is right.
The ESR CR ignition mounting adapter plates only have three holes drilled into the plate to mount it to thr R cases & the only adjustment to the ignition timming would be with moving the CR stator plate.
You do know the CR ignition has a thin metal plate mounted over the bottom adjustment slot hole that can be removed for more adjustment, right.

The CT Racing, CR ignition mounting adapter plates have slots where the plate itself mounts to the cases for a larger range of timming adjustment.

How I found this out, my daughters 330R spit a spark plug out in a practice round during the heat of summer & after asking some questions I found out spark knock sometimes will cause the plug to loosen. I had found the plug loose quite a few times before that but realy didnt think that much about it untill it spit the plug out. In the process of getting the plug screwed back into the head I ended up just cross threading it, so killed that dome.
Back at the shop & checking things & knowing we had a deto problem, I took a dial indicator, found TDC, soap stoned a mark on the flywheel & then marked the TDC pointer on the stator plate & used a timming light to check as the engine was running.
Timming was set a about 3/4s of the movement of the CR stator plate clockwise & we had a ESR adapter plate so no movement could be made to it. Timming light was showing a gap between the mark on the flywheel & the mark on the pointer almost 3/4 of an inch apart in the addvance mode, timming was probable about 20 or 25*s addvanced, no wonder we had spit a plug out.
After that I reset the staror plate several settings in the counter clockwise settings & with the plate completely counter clockwise far as it will rotate, the ignition was still addvanced around 5*s.

Not being the rider on the bike myself & her not know what she was hearing when it was spark knocking, its a wonder that the engine hadnt killed itself more so that just spitting a plug out.
I guess maybe one reason it didnt, & always run my engines rich, way rich, even those I build for other riders & that could have been the saving factor.
This 330R engine was built in 04, was a practice bike & back up bike engine at the TT national races, ran the complete 05 season of local & national events & then the complete 06 season, you think this engine might be worn out ???. Out of all this racing, only problems were the spark plug deal & replacing the head dome, nothing else has been touched.
Neil

[HondaATC500X]

I've personally had a complete CR250 ignition system hooked up to my 85 CR500, but I never could get the damn thing to run. I had a beautiful, clean spark but it would never run. I even pull started it and the best I could do was get it to back fire. I tried every position in the stator plate and even grooved it out about another inch each direction and never got anything. Ended up going back to the stock 85 ignition with a "new" year specific 85 CDI box and it ran.

[ChvyCruzen]

Maybe you had the stator adapter plate mounted wrong? Or CDI was mapped for something else?

[HondaATC500X]

lol no the stator plate wasn't mounted wrong...it went on just like the 500 one did, except it had the slots that made the timing adjustable. And like I said, I tried it every which way. Different CDI mapping is possible for sure, but I tried 2 different CR500 CDIs also. I honestly worked on that thing for 6 hours a day for a week trying to get it figured out before i went back to the stock setup. Not saying someone else can't get it to work, but I didn't have any luck with it.

[ChvyCruzen]

I totally overlooked the part that you said you put it on a 85 CR5. Well I'm surprised you would do that ... cause I had a 86 CR5 and I didnt want the flywheel any lighter .. that thing was a light switch as is.

The CR5 has a different stroke and bore .. but with the woodruff key ... it should be lined up for TDC every time it passes the pulse generator. You hacked the wires and tried hooking it up to a CR5 CDI? I dont think that would work because of the signal/mapping ... but its possible. If you had spark but no fire ... sounds like you had a mapping problem. Or its even possible the stator coils were bad.

[HondaATC500X]

I didn't hack the wires, I made some pieces that plugged into both the original stator terminals and also the cdi terminals, it was this middle piece that had the splices in it. The flywheels were identical from everything I could tell. I measured the pulse generator pickup posistion, its length, at what time it passed under the sensor, sensor posistion, etc. Maybe the stator was junk to begin with, but everything spec'd out with the ohm meter going on the specs I had been given for that particular set of parts. I will say though, this was the older analog style system and was not the 2000+ style.

[ChvyCruzen]

Ohh the analog system doesnt have a small flywheel like the newer ... or so I think.

I remember I was having problems with my spark on my 86 CR5 .. thought I had bad stator coils, so I replaced those and it didnt do much. So I bought a 10 dollar EMGO coil and lo and behold ... a nice fat bright blue spark. Funny how a 10 dollar ignition coil can change a lot of things. But it is possible you had bad stator coils.