400ex long travel rear????

[forum]

Im in the process of building up a crf450 400ex. Does Axis offer long travel rear?? And can anybody explain or post a picture of the rear shock mount modification. I now i can do it myself. Also it seems you can't get a dual rate axis rear thats fully adjustable. Should i go with the compression only dual rate or fully adjustable single rate?? or if i go long travel rear will it allow me to go dual rate fully adjustable...?
Thanks,

I've been looking around for other forum sites just for the he|| of it and this is the best i've seen.

I've been looking around for other forum sites just for the he|| of it and this is the best i've seen. Same here, but the extra traffic can get to be a pain also, but still the best.

I had tried to do this with the stock EX frame and couldnt get any good info except that the mount is either higher or further forward or both. Not one time did I get a straight answer, so someone please post some good info on this.

I had spoke with Jeff Houser a couple months ago and they are working on a new swingarm design that will address the current problems and be a bolt on.

This would be great since not everyone is able or willing to do the welding.

The new design is supposed to correct the problem with the shock angle and swing angle as well as increase overall travel.

I cant wait to see it.


I dont have any preference to the major shock mfg's but I think that most all have a dual rate full adj rear. If Axis doesnt try elka, they been good to me so far..

[forum]

I may still get elka. Im trying to get some axis shocks from this guy and if that deal falls through then I'll get the elka's forsure.

[MX250R73]

Get a Lobo II rear end, it is a long travel axis, supposed to be really sweet!!

[forum]

no chance. I can't aford that. Plus i just bought a swing arm.

[trx400ex]

Originally posted by MX250R73
Get a Lobo II rear end, it is a long travel axis, supposed to be really sweet!!

the lobo 2 isnt long travel, the shocks might have more travel, but it is stock length..


i would love to see houser build that, i would get one right away, keep us updated

[holeshot19]

ive tryed to get pic on the relocated rear shock. i ordered a rear elka and still expermenting with it.the main spring they sent was way to stiff. they sent me another and it seems to be working ok the thing has a lot of up travel.its kinda freakey.cause it you chop the gas going down hill sometimes the engine brakeing will let the rear end move upward.far as a no link my lonestar r has it it sets low and seem to hook doesnt slide like my link bike i had.i asked about the axis rear shock if you order one with out the rebound you can get some more travel but its not worth it.:devil

i ordered a rear elka and still expermenting with it.the main spring they sent was way to stiff. Since having a little time to get mine set up I am finding the same thing, and I think if it were a true dual rate it would be so much better.

i will be calling elka soon to see what they think I should do but you have any ideas?

I was thinking just loosen up on the preload but I dont think that will help down travel much.


i would love to see houser build that, i would get one right away, keep us updated Then give Jeff a call maybe it will push him along.

[forum]

ANybody?????

[holeshot19]

not to be a smart *** why would you cut up a ex to build that sell it and get one of those frames built for that motor.the last mx national i went to they were a lot of ex bike with yzf motors on them. cant see how that kinda power would match up with that type of frame

[forum]

Okay. lets just forget the crf thing for now. All i want to know is, about the shock mount mod. And the reason i am putting the crf engine in my freame is because i think the 400ex engine blows goats. I just didn't wanna say it earlier to offend anyone

[DESERTTOYZATV]

DON,T WASTE YOUR HARD EARNED $$. BUY "ELKA SHOCKS", I HAVE SOME INSIDE INFO, THE WORD IS THAT "ELKA" AND "DTZ" HAVE DEVELOPED A 400EX LONG TRAVEL REAR END THAT GIVES 13.25" OF TRUE USABLE REAR WHEEL TRAVEL. THERE WILL BE NO MODIFICATIONS WILL BE NECESSARY. THE KIT WILL REQUIRE YOU TO USE A "DTZ" SWING ARM, LINK SYSTEM, AND "ELKA" REAR SHOCK. THIS KIT WILL SOAK ALL THE BIG HITS AND HAVE YOU FLYIN OVER THE BIGGEST JUMPS. IT SHOULD BE AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC IN 30 DAYS.

[forum]

I would but i already baught a new swing arm

[forum]

bumb

[Nausty]

desert toys, Does it use a shock linkage, or is it just a no link set up? Is it just for desert racing or mx or what?

[DESERTTOYZATV]

yes it uses linkage, and can be setup for dez or mx.

[Sick0]

I;ve heard if relocate your stock shock mount, you have to get a speacl shock long travel shock thats meant for that. Not just a long travel shock but one built for you applacation. I heard the shock will blow if you don't

[Extremeracer167]

Just got my Axis long travel rear shock today. I will post the info on how to move it prob. like tomorrow. They dont want to sell a dual rate long travel with rebound adj, becuase it takes up travel. Almost everyone is running the long travel, just dual rate with comp. adj. and it is such a smooth ride. They claim an extra 2 INCHES!!! thats a **** of alot more travel. Ill post more, and get ya some pictures here with in a day, and hopefully that will help u guys!

[Sick0]

good luck

[forum]

so its better off geting compression only????? Are you sure. WHat do other people think. I know you get more trave lbut don't you need the rebound adjust in the rear end??

[DESERTTOYZATV]

IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU GUYS ARE A LITTLE GREEN WHEN IT COMES TO SUSPENSION TRAVEL. YES, IT IS A BIG ADVANTAGE TO HAVE A FULLY ADJUSTABLE SHOCK FOR THE REAR. WHAT IS LONG TRAVEL? HOW MUCH TRAVEL DO YOU HAVE NOW? DO YOU KNOW HOW TO MEASURE SUSPENSION TRAVEL? HOW DOES THE SHOCK ANGLE AFFECT THE SHOCK? WHAT DOES A DUAL RATE SPRING DO? THE TERM LONG TRAVEL IS USED BY MANY BUT KNOWN BY FEW. IF YOU CAN ANSWER ALL THESE QUESTIONS CORRECTLY, THAN YOU MAY HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE IT TAKES TO WEED THROUGH ALL THE FLUFF THAT MOST OF THE SUSPENSION SHOPS ARE TELLING YOU.

[Extremeracer167]

I know that Axis has it dialed in almost perfect when i got mine, and most of the ppl i know dont even really adjust anything either.

[DESERTTOYZATV]

CUSTOM AXIS IS WAY OVER PRICED.

[DESERTTOYZATV]

ASK CUSTOM AXIS HOW MANY INCHES OF USEABLE TRAVEL THEIR SETUP WILL PRODUCE? ITS ALL ABOUT INCHES !

[trx400ex]

john houser said his long travel rear will be available in a few months hopefully...

[Extremeracer167]

Stock 400EX custom Axis shock gets 9 inches of travel. Long travel that i just got...11 inches. Not all of us are complete idiots about shocks. Most of us know about travel and dual rate springs. Oh also, maybe u should go try some new bike shops if u think that they all feed u bull about that stuff. I am the manager of a bike shop, and i know at my bike shop i tell ppl what works and what doesnt. I dont lie to them about products. And lets not start another war about shocks, u prob. are one of the guys that runs Elkas which is fine, but if u are one of the guys that gos out and buys Works, then u really shouldnt be comong on here and lecturing us on shocks.

[trx400ex]

hey man if you dont mind me askin.. how much was the axis long travel shock and who told you where to move the mount? axis? also how long was the wait? thanks a ton

[Mxbubs]

Custom Axis rear shock has LESS travel than an elka. Dont believe, take a look. Axis uses a big plastic dial that sits on the bottom of the shock for adjusting rebound, this robs the shock of travel, the spring and shaft are shorter. Elka uses a rebound adjustment click screw like the stock ex shock has on it, it doesnt take up any space. Brad Herrmann can build a no-link round tubing swingarm for the EX with the shock mount moved back a little on the swingarm and makes for a better ride. If I can sale my current setup, I am going to give his no-link setup a try.

[Extremeracer167]

I sell the Axis long travel backs for about 730. Thats dual rate, compression adj. The wait was 2-3 weeks. Nobody can make a no link for a 400EX because #1 the air box is in th way to have the right angle on the shock. and #2 Everyone that has tried it breaks the upper shock mount. I like alot of Brads work, but i would have to disagree with him on that. Like i said, most guys dont need the Rebound adjustment on the long travel. Becuase unlike Elka, Axis knows how to set up there shock for the rider, ive talked to soo many guys that barely touched there Axis shock, becuase axis dials them in very very well.

PS it isnt a plastic knob, its a blue anodized aluminum knob

houser told me there no link rear will be out in a few months a year ago so don't hold your breath.

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by Extremeracer167
Becuase unlike Elka, Axis knows how to set up there shock for the rider, ive talked to soo many guys that barely touched there Axis shock, becuase axis dials them in very very well.

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
wel i know 2 people who aren't satisfied with their elkas.. that 2 outta 3 peple i know with elkas

[cdalejef]

Ok...I know a guy thats been racing GNCC's since the mid 80's who had Axis on his modified 400ex, when he built his new one I talked him into trying Elka's. Now he says he will never buy Axis again! I personally like my Elka/Houser setup better than my old Axis/Lobo II setup. Everyone has their opinions.

ok..calm down this sn't a fight. i am jus saying elka needs some more set-up time and experiance. i think that axis regular travels suck but from everyone i know thats had axis long travel i have heard nothing but grea things about. i personally won't spend 1300 on axis shocks myself. i plan on getting tcs long travels here soon. you can't beat their price. i think in the future elka could be a great company but for now there not on top.

[Mxbubs]

Oh yeah, P.S. I am going to custom build me an air box and I have all ready gussetted my shock mount. (For Brad's no link rear setup)

P.s.s. Axis customer services STINKS. As I said before, I sent my rear in to be revalved and they sent it back with a rusted peeling spring. I called them up and they had to say "sorry that is a vendor spring we are not responsible for it" .......what a bunch of BS............That would be like ford or chevy saying "sorry your paint job is rusting on your new car, but we dont make the paint, therefore we are not responsible". Axis can kiss my *****.

[cdalejef]

I'm not upset!;)

[Mxbubs]

My old bike 400ex

With the shocks I would never again buy.

[Mxbubs]

My old 250r with the works.

They ride smooth, but dont handle hard hits well. What can I say, they are Works.

well i am glad your not up set so now you can pm me with a price on some 400ex frame gusseting and powdercoating

[Mxbubs]

My new quadrate elkas with Herrmanns +3

herrmann +3 long travels are on my winter buy list. i think i amgonna gt tcs shocks though. either those or peps if i can get a price on them. i've been to busy working to get a price.

hope this pic works.. i got it from bigbore81.. it's a pic of the mount relocated

[Dave400ex]

Man that Herrmann/Elka setup is awesome.

Call and talk to Rocky Ridge about the Rear Shock Mount.

did that pic work.. the mounts pretty much flip so that it makes the mount point 2-3 in higher

[trx400ex]

so who sells custom axis long travel rears??, and who can tell me exactly where to move the upper shock mount? i will do it my self....thanks,, also the attachment didnt work for me

how's about this

[trx400ex]

ok thanks for the pic...

stock the mount sticks straight back from the tube, on this mdification, does it sit on top of the tube, or do you just angle it up?

where did you get your long travel shock S.M.A.
thanks

[trx400ex]

heres a drawing of what im thinking, am i on the right track?

thats bigbore 81's frame. i am the unlucky with stockers. the mod makes the mount point set up higher than the frame ture.. can you see how they cut the sub frame crossmember. i would guess get the axis shocks from axis since it is a special long travel shock. i guess the shocks 3 in. longer.

[trx400ex]

ok, my bad i didnt read you first post thoroughly... my drawing didnt work.. i still dont quite get it but ill study the pic some more

[forum]

Does this shock mount modification help the problem with the 400ex shock locking up?? Has anyone heard of this. when the bike is landed too noise high the rear shock basically locks up and does not work causeing the axle to snap (Most likely why durablue is now called durabreak) I think the reason for this is the angle of the shock. Because the shock is to stratight up and down. From the picture you showed me it looks like it makes the shock more straight up and down. Meaning more shock binding??? Desertoyz seems to now his stuff. Can you help. Does Elka even make a long travel rear?

Anybody???

Thanks alot guys and gals for the info I have already been given. This site ROCKS

[Extremeracer167]

Have u ever seen the shocks on a top line racing quad? The ones with no-link are almos straight up and down. We just did this mod on 2 of our 400EXs and the thing is like riding a brand new quad. It makes an UNBELEIVABLE differance. It took abour 3-4 hours to switch everything over, but it was well worth it!!

So what it boils down to is if you run works shocks you can't ride and your best off just to take your own life..:rolleyes:

I"m wondering if axis charges an extra $300 or $400 just for having the name axis on their rezzies??:confused:

[lil400exman]

Originally posted by Extremeracer167
Stock 400EX custom Axis shock gets 9 inches of travel. Long travel that i just got...11 inches. Not all of us are complete idiots about shocks. Most of us know about travel and dual rate springs. Oh also, maybe u should go try some new bike shops if u think that they all feed u bull about that stuff. I am the manager of a bike shop, and i know at my bike shop i tell ppl what works and what doesnt. I dont lie to them about products. And lets not start another war about shocks, u prob. are one of the guys that runs Elkas which is fine, but if u are one of the guys that gos out and buys Works, then u really shouldnt be comong on here and lecturing us on shocks.

well desert rat atv toys in dirtwheels as a shop that focus on 400ex 250r and raptor so i think he kknows what he tlak about he servies all shocks.............. just wanted to tell you all...........;) :p

[Extremeracer167]

point being?? so do i:confused:

Shock binding???

I dont think the problem is as much with the shock angle as the swing angle and length.

If you land the quad too vertical or uprite the you taking the travel and shock out of play and putting the force of landing on the swing bolt. Since the axle is not as well supported as the swing bolt it bends.


Can we get some more pics or info on that conversion?

What is the actual change in the mounting position, does it move it up 1 or 2" or?

Also did any of you guys running this notice more down travel in the suspension or just up travel?

[DESERTTOYZATV]

INTERNAL SHOCK FRICTION WILL INCREASE AS THE SHOCK ANGLE IS INCREASED. THE REASON THE REAR AXEL BREAKS IS; LACK OF TRAVEL, POOR SHOCK SETUP,AGE,ABUSE ETC. SOME AXELS ARE BETTER THAN OTHERS WE HAVE USE "RPM". IN REGARDS TO THE NO LINK 400EX SET-UP, BY DECREASEING THE SHOCK ANGLE IT BECOMES MORE SENSITIVE, W/ A QUICKER STROKE. THE SHOCK WILL MOVE MORE FREELY OVER SMALLER IMPACKS. BECAUSE THERE IS VERY LITTLE WEIGHT OVER THE REAR WHEELS OF A QUAD, LESS ANGLE IS BETTER TO A POINT. WITH THE NO-LINK SET-UP THERE IS STILL THE LACK OF TRAVEL, CAUSEING THE SHOCK MOUNT TO BRAKE UNDER HARSH CONDITIONS. THE CURRENT ELKA REAR SHOCK GIVES THE 400EX 10.25" OF REAR WHEEL TRAVEL. WE ARE NOW TESTING A NEW ELKA REAR SHOCK W/ A CUSTOM DTZ LINK SYSTEM AND SWING ARM THAT GIVES 13.25" OF WHEEL TRAVEL, WE SHOULD HAVE RIDE RESULTS SOON.

[Extremeracer167]

Does the Axis long travel really give 11 inches of travel? Thats what we are told, and i just got it on, and havent got a chance to measure it yet.

[trx400ex]

hey extremeracer, did you get the price on the axis shock? thanks

[DEAL]

Forum, If you get that thing set up for next season are we going to be seeing you racing nationals perhaps?

That long travel shock looks sweet!!

[forum]

Yes i will be at the nationals most likely. I'm trying to get my dad's company to sponser me for the gas. Do you race the nationals?? from what i heard the nationals are all held in quebec exept one. with is in ontario, at Walton. This is what i am told. But I am going to try and make it to as many as posible. I may even race once in nova scotia. My cousin lives there and I wouldn't mind trying one of those tracks out while visiting. Pm me To continue this convo. just so the topic doesn't get off topic like so many do.

[forum]

Bumb..
bringing this old topic back!
Cause elka will soon be building me a cutom shock and i need to now how much longer the shock will be

[forum]

o and what about the air box. Will the swing arm hit the airbox because of the added travel??

[Extremeracer167]

no the stock air box does not hit the swingarm, but an aluminum one prob. will. Put it this way, the brake caliper will do a heck of a number on your mufler if u dont have it spaced far enough apart. Just to give ya an ide of how much travel u get

[forum]

what far enuf apart?? I am going to get a guy to build me a custom aluminium air box. since im using a crf engine the battery portion can be eliminated.

[forum]

or build my own. What thickness aluminium should i use?

[trx400ex]

hey extremeracer..do you have any pics of the rear shock mount yet? thanks

[Extremeracer167]

No but i will get some, im sorry, im just really lazy and a big procrastinator! I have to have the quad clean by this weekend cause i got a race, so keep on me and ill get some prob. tomorrow night!

[trx400ex]

ok, im not in a big hurry...

[forum]

GET THEMMMM DAMNIT

you said keep on you!

haha.

Ok now wheres them pics......

[forum]

come on! haha

[Mxbubs]

Yeah, get them pics! Inquiring minds want to know! And I am one of them!:eek:

[Extremeracer167]

Well guys i got the thing clean, but now i gotta go get my hair cut, and pay the woman a visit;) , but when i get home, ill rip the snorkal off and stuff, and ill snap the pic and have it on prob. around 11ish!

[optikid123]

one guy at the farm that just got that done on his bike now his 400ex is set up like spaders old 250r suspension wise. ill try to get pics of it i forget his name but he just got sponsered by duncan. but ill try to gets pics of the conversion

[Extremeracer167]

well i got the thing ripped apart, to find out that my digital cam. is a POS!!! I will try and borrow my neighbors and get them on soon.

[trx400ex]

BUMP:D

[DEAL]

Forum , They usally have one Nation race in N.S, but it really depends on what track they use because the one they had it at this year didn't allow quads.

[trx400ex]

just keepin on ya;) :D

[trx400ex]

Extreme...did you get that camera yet?!if i lived closer to ya id let you use mine but im sure your nieghbor will be more than happy to let you borrow his..it will probably make his day:D :D :D

[Extremeracer167]

haha, if u lived closer u could just come look at it. My neighbors wife has his camera......there divorced.....so as u prob. know that hting is as good as gone, i was supposed to get it back lastnight. They said tonight, so hopefully my mom got it today

Post up them pics man were all waiting

[forum]

indeed we are

[trx400ex]

yup, as soon as i get some pics, the mount is getting moved....

[Extremeracer167]

just talked to my mom, said the camera is back, looks like ill get the pics tonight or tom. morning. FINALLY!!

[trx400ex]

Good deal. Ill keep this thread on the 1st page. Just a quick question, you left the bar that the mount is welded to alone, right? Ill probably have it done next week if i can get some pics.;) Thanks

[Mxbubs]

I haaavee beeeeen siiitttitting here f-f-f-f-for 2 ww-w-w-weeks waiting on the pics. P-p-p-p-please post them s-s-s-soooonnn, so I cccan go to s-s-s-sleep.:o

[Sparky416ex]

Originally posted by forum
I may still get elka. Im trying to get some axis shocks from this guy and if that deal falls through then I'll get the elka's forsure.


Hey i have axis on my 416 and elka on my 300...the axis are a little better feeling...and ive heard built with better materials...but elkas are a great shock...i cant wait to see the 450...do you already havet he motor? Someone told me you can order the motors from honda...for 3500$ shipped to you door...is this true?

[Dave400ex]

Yeah Service Honda is selling the Motors for $3,600.

[trx400ex]

Originally posted by WarriorMan
Yeah Service Honda is selling the Motors for $3,600.

go to there website, it says they arent doing it anymore (offer ended like october something)

[Dave400ex]

That`s retarted.

[trx400ex]

Well hey guys, i just bought bigbore81s frame (i think its his) so i will get some pics up sometime soon....

[Extremeracer167]

yeah my digital camera is broke again. Its sent back to the head honchos, so hoepfully they will just replace it!:grr

Oh c'mon now just go buy one of those $5.00 disposable jobs and post them pics :( :grr

[Taco]

looky here
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1871841229

looky here

You da man there Taco thanx

[trx400ex]

ya, thats the frame i bought, i cant really tell too much from the pic of the mount, so if you guys want some from another angle i will be able to get them as soon as i get the frame

[Dave400ex]

That is very nice looking. Did you buy the Shock too?

[trx400ex]

yup, now i just got to figure out what color plastic to get:confused:

[Dave400ex]

I would say Red or Black.

[Davemx250r]

Iv got a question,so if you move the top shock mount up an inch,do you get and inch longer shock which gives you more travel,or do you get a 2 inch longer shock which will give you 1 inches more since the other inch is take up when you move the shock mount up,tell me how this works?

[trx400ex]

bigbore81 said it is 3 inches longer so :confused:

an inch of sock shaft travel will equal considerably more in suspension travel, this amount will depend on swing arm length shock mount location etc.

If you move the mount an inch further away then it theoreticly should be possible to run a few times that in shock shaft travel. I am not 100% sure of how much but remeber that the shock travels both up and down so if its longer it doesnt just have the travel up to the extra length but also can add down travel as well.

Damn I wrote that and it confusing me :huh :huh

[Davemx250r]

you so lost me:huh but i did the math,i drew it out,when you move the shock mount up 1 inch,you get a shock thats 1 inch longer or how ever long you prefer is how long you move the shock mount up. The shock travel of my axis fully adjust is 2.75 inches,which is 8 inches if wheel travel which gives oyu a 2.75:8 ratio,if you had 2 inch to the shock which would make it 4.75 you increase the wheel travel by 57 percent which come out around 12 inches of travel. I know this is confusing,took me all night to figure out the formula. so adding to inches is about the precise amount you want to add to your shock,any more and youll feel like a dragster with your rear end in the air.the main thing is though is watching to make sure that the shaft and body of the shock equal out so that your swing arm dont hit your arm box. Hope you understand.

[Davemx250r]

i mean AIR box

[trx400ex]

Originally posted by Davemx250r
you so lost me:huh but i did the math,i drew it out,when you move the shock mount up 1 inch,you get a shock thats 1 inch longer or how ever long you prefer is how long you move the shock mount up. The shock travel of my axis fully adjust is 2.75 inches,which is 8 inches if wheel travel which gives oyu a 2.75:8 ratio,if you had 2 inch to the shock which would make it 4.75 you increase the wheel travel by 57 percent which come out around 12 inches of travel. I know this is confusing,took me all night to figure out the formula. so adding to inches is about the precise amount you want to add to your shock,any more and youll feel like a dragster with your rear end in the air.the main thing is though is watching to make sure that the shaft and body of the shock equal out so that your swing arm dont hit your arm box. Hope you understand.
A 2 or 3 inch longer shocks does not equal 2 or 3 more inches of shock travel, i think the LT setup gives you 11 or so of wheel travel

[Davemx250r]

I didnt mean get a 2 inch longer shock,i ment get a shock that has 2 more inches of travel,how ever long it ends up being after that is how much you gotta move the shock mount up.

I didnt mean get a 2 inch longer shock,i ment get a shock that has 2 more inches of travel,how ever long it ends up being after that is how much you gotta move the shock mount up.

Is that what I was trying to say :D

Have to agree there but remember that once the new location is established the shock has to be set up to match.

Or we can just wait (possibly forever) for one of the mfg's to finally release the long travel swingarm, which I what I am trying to do since I need the ext swing anyway but they are taking their sweet time.

[trx400ex]

Originally posted by 440EX4me


Is that what I was trying to say :D

Have to agree there but remember that once the new location is established the shock has to be set up to match.

Or we can just wait (possibly forever) for one of the mfg's to finally release the long travel swingarm, which I what I am trying to do since I need the ext swing anyway but they are taking their sweet time.
I dont see a long travel swingarm coming out anytime soon, ive had a few places tell me that theres will be ready in week.....a week later its gonna be ready in a week...a week later it might be out in a couple weeks

[trx400ex]

IM going to post pics in the body forum here in a few minutes