21,500 Troops

[Pappy]

and let me add this...

I dont want an arguement, all i want is some movemnet on the issue that provides positive outcomes for all involved. i read other opinions and hope that you read mine and take it for what its worth, nothing more, nothing less.

Originally posted by Eviltanker
It's hard to find a balance in troop levels. I would not want the commanders jobs.
On the immorality of this war. I've was a designated marksman when we did tac ops and raids, I've done some stuff that would make your hiar turn grey or white( did mine) does this mean I should stand trial? I was investigated every time I squeezed the trigger because of politics and they were all considered justified.
I'm not ticked off or anything I just don't understand were this immorality thing was/ is going.

it came from the the fact that i believe the leadership in this country did something "immoral" and started the war in iraq with lies...but at the same time i do not find the actions of our soldiers immoral..."garandman"says that if i find the people who started it immoral, i must in turn find the people fighting it also immoral..hope that helps clarify...

and by the way pappy, it goes a little farther than the fact that i "like to argue" if that were the case on this site it would be easy...honda's best..no yamaha or axis no elka etc....i only "argue" on exriders about 2 things...the war and when i see people making unwarranted attacks on other members...i dislike self-righteousness...and that's what i see when it comes to both of those issues on here....

Originally posted by Pappy
and let me add this...

I dont want an arguement, all i want is some movemnet on the issue that provides positive outcomes for all involved. i read other opinions and hope that you read mine and take it for what its worth, nothing more, nothing less.

agreed....and the less americans, military and/or otherwise dying is the best end result i can think of...

[Pappy]

Originally posted by dlerch
...i dislike self-righteousness...and that's what i see when it comes to both of those issues on here....

define irony

and this will end our epilogue.

i think we both know what you are trying to say here...i think my feelings on those issues are based on a set of "reasoned out" beliefs, not some sort of "appointed" knowledge....if you feel differently, or if i come across as self-righteous then i apologize, because i assure you they are not my intentions....if nothing else i pride myself in being a fair and reasonable man...;)

Originally posted by Pappy
define irony

and this will end our epilogue.

..got the websters right here...did you mean; "made of or consisting of iron"?:D :D :D

[Pappy]

a pretense of ignorance and of willingness to learn from another assumed in order to make the other's false conceptions conspicuous by adroit questioning -- called also Socratic irony

or

convinced of one's own righteousness especially in contrast with the actions and beliefs of others : narrow-mindedly moralistic

[Prey]

Originally posted by Pappy
So we agree then that Al Sadr can be labeled a radical and he should be killed or captured?

And yes, small spec-ops will work well, IF you can get the intel from the people! They arent giving much up from what I am hearing, because they dont know who will be there in the end! (go see above post about controlling the situation and defining a leader)

From a combat perspective, the jungles of Vietnam and the desert of Iraq are two differnt animals. Closing or patrolling the borders is doable in Iraq, it wasnt in Vietnam. Winning the hearts and mind is not needed in Iraq, they just need to be shown we will not run! In Vietnam the average paddy daddy did not really care who was in control of the government, he cared about his small village, which was destroyed by NVA, VC or the Americans so all he wanted was no war:p

And the comparison to Vietnam and Iraq also shows that we are once again crippling our soldiers by bowing to the media, worrying about what the world percieves as our agenda and our own ignorance!

Overwhelming force is but one tool in the box. Something needs to be done and I dont see many answers being proposed, I do however see alot of political BS

And we are seeing the soldiers come home crippled and dead now, so limited urban engagements are having the same effect, but you can not compare the numbers in 4 years to what occured in Vietnam over a span of 10 years. 3000 Iraq/58,2309 Vietnam dead, 47,657 Iraq/153,303 wounded Vietnam. (Todays wounded data includes non combat injuries including medical conditions not computed into the Vietnam statistics)

Agreed, Intel is very important.

Now, I never said anything about anyone’s desert in comparison to any jungle, I did however compare the streets of major Iraqi cities to the jungles of vietnam.

There was the convenient omission of "somewhat stationary" which is a very important point.

Lastly, I thought we were having adult conversation vice argument

Originally posted by Pappy
a pretense of ignorance and of willingness to learn from another assumed in order to make the other's false conceptions conspicuous by adroit questioning -- called also Socratic irony

..ok now you define "adroit"... i believe it's french...

[Pappy]

latin definition



and prey, there are nothing but losers in an arguement, i prefer debate:p ;)

have fun, i have to work:grr:

[Pappy]

Originally posted by dlerch
..ok now you define "adroit"... i believe it's french...

having or showing skill, cleverness, or resourcefulness in handling situations <an adroit leader> <adroit maneuvers>

if you are refering to me, thank you

if you are refering to yourself, re-read the definition of selfrightousness.

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by dlerch
..ok now you define "adroit"... i believe it's french...

I still think you're a sally. Just think when your unborn child is my age, maybe you can pay for her college with SS benefits (if there is any left), since what you'll almost be 60?