pv vs. non-pv question

[yernkie]

I am looking to get a 250r for a duner but I know nothing about them (differneces in years, motors, etc). Could someone point me to a site that explains this or tell me the difference between pv and non-pv motors? What years, if any, did 250r's have pv's and what are they. Basic questions, I know, but wondering. Are there any good sites dedicated to just info about 250r's?

[JessetheKid]

no 250r's came stock with a power valve. it is a aftermarket cylinder. They are usually very powerful and reliable motors. But they price tag shows that.

[RichM1983]

The honda 250r never came with a power valve from the factory. The only way to get a powervalved 250r is to buy an aftermarket cylinder. All the R motors are pretty similar. The 86 motor has a different stroke from the other years and there may be some other things and mote details but I'm not sure on all of them.

As far as building a powervalved dune quad I'm not sure its worth the extra money for a powervalve. All the information Ive seen says a powervalve just broadens your power curve to give more hp on the low to mid end, but not add any overall horsepower. Since your in the dunes where low end is pretty much non-existant I would just go with a big bore non-pv motor. Most people say to go with ESR for a big bore but don't let them port it. Just get the econo port and have it ported by a place that will do a better job. I have heard good and bad things about ESR but most so just get it ported somwhere else because their port work is hit or miss.

[deathman53]

I agree, don't let them port it. The porting on my 330 was the pitts.

[C-LEIGH RACING]

Originally posted by yernkie
I am looking to get a 250r for a duner but I know nothing about them (differneces in years, motors, etc). Could someone point me to a site that explains this or tell me the difference between pv and non-pv motors? What years, if any, did 250r's have pv's and what are they. Basic questions, I know, but wondering. Are there any good sites dedicated to just info about 250r's?


A 250R site,
http://www.trx250r.org
http://www.trx250r.net.

What would be wrong with a PV cylinder ported for top end & using it in the dunes.
Neil

[gojk]

Nothing wrong with a PV at the dunes. The only reason not to get powervalve in any situation is because of the cost.

[400EX QUADER]

To say a powervalve is useless in the dunes is idiotic. I use lowend power all the time. It helps you get off the line better and I guarantee I couldnt do some of the treeshots/hillclimbs that u do if I didn't have any lowend power. I guess dunes to you are just open dunes but to tell ya the truth, not all dunes are just highspeed all the time. Guess you need to go find some "real" dunes and ride a quad with no lowend and you will eat your words.

[RichM1983]

Originally posted by 400EX QUADER
To say a powervalve is useless in the dunes is idiotic. I use lowend power all the time. It helps you get off the line better and I guarantee I couldnt do some of the treeshots/hillclimbs that u do if I didn't have any lowend power. I guess dunes to you are just open dunes but to tell ya the truth, not all dunes are just highspeed all the time. Guess you need to go find some "real" dunes and ride a quad with no lowend and you will eat your words.


Well i dont know if saying what i said is idiotic is a good way of putting it but everyone ive read about that rides in the dunes says paying all that extra money for a pv is not worth it. A non pv that is ported will make the same power for less money. I still think low end in the dunes makes up very little of your riding. PV is for a motorcross track.

[400EX QUADER]

Maybe you should listen to me too cause I ONLY ride dunes with a esr powervalve cylinder... I've ridden non powervalve bikes out there and it just isn't the same. I wouldn't have as strong of an opinion if I didn't have any experience with this.

[RichM1983]

Originally posted by 400EX QUADER
Maybe you should listen to me too cause I ONLY ride dunes with a esr powervalve cylinder... I've ridden non powervalve bikes out there and it just isn't the same. I wouldn't have as strong of an opinion if I didn't have any experience with this.


Well I suppose that I'll have to believe your experience but I always thought that the pv was not for dunes but for mx and only added bottom end which again I thought was not to important in the dunes. I mean why is a dune port always mostly a top end port?

[400EX QUADER]

cause most of the time it is topend but what i'm sayin is it's not all topend. I know some people that only want a lowend port because a topend port would only hurt them cause they need that bottomend to start at the bottom of a very steep hill surrounded by trees and bottomend power is what will give you that momentum to get out. Otherwise you have to be winched out.

[hontrx265r]

I'm not going to argue, because I do think powervalves are a good thing. But I had a lrd 265 pv, laeger bike and my baldwin 265 non pv would smoke the pv bike all day long bottom to top, my experience was not very good with the pv. These were both my machines so I'm not saying I smoked someone elses.... blah blah with a blah blah on it.

[250Renvy]

I'd just like to throw this in to anybody who may know. I am looking for a 265 powervalve and I know CT/ESR and LRD all use the PRO-X cylinders, are they all the same, just different porting?

CT doesn't sell 265's but ESR does, if I buy from ESR and get CT or LRD to port it, does it really make it a CT or LRD since they all start with a pro-x cylinder?

[matt250r21]

All those companies use the Pro X cylinder, main difference is the PV part. ESR makes there own, CT, Sparks and LRD use the Rotax part. Other differences are the sleeve for 246 to 265 cc, CT, Sparks and I think ESR use the aluminum Nikasil sleeve. LRD installs a steel sleeve, why I don't know, the Nikasil is better. Porting will all be different between the compaines. You might want to ask Neil at C-Liegh about doing your portwork.

[400EX QUADER]

Originally posted by hontrx265r
I'm not going to argue, because I do think powervalves are a good thing. But I had a lrd 265 pv, laeger bike and my baldwin 265 non pv would smoke the pv bike all day long bottom to top, my experience was not very good with the pv. These were both my machines so I'm not saying I smoked someone elses.... blah blah with a blah blah on it.

1 question... Did you ever race them against eachother??? I know that powervalved bikes "FEEL" slower but they can have the exact same power. Just the pv feels "lazy" so it feels slower then it really is.

[yernkie]

The only racing I do at the dunes is with buddies, so that isn't an issue. I ride a 400ex now and I love the lowend cause I ride a lot of trails at the dunes. I'd really like something with lowend for trails and topend for big dunes. I don't want anything strictly topend because I will be riding it on local trails (the 400 is getting setup for TT/flattrack racing and I hate having to swap out parts just to hit a local trail). I've been thinking about a 265pv with a fatty pipe and midrange porting.

I recently rode a 265 non-pv motor with midrange porting and it ran great, but you had to be on the clutch a lot for tight trails, so I feel a pv may be a better option.

[400EX QUADER]

I would get a 265 powervalve with either a esr trx6 or trx5 pipe depending on if you want mostly lowend-midrange with decent topend or you want totally allaround performance. Then have the porting to match the pipe and your riding style. IMO

[RichM1983]

Originally posted by yernkie
The only racing I do at the dunes is with buddies, so that isn't an issue. I ride a 400ex now and I love the lowend cause I ride a lot of trails at the dunes. I'd really like something with lowend for trails and topend for big dunes. I don't want anything strictly topend because I will be riding it on local trails (the 400 is getting setup for TT/flattrack racing and I hate having to swap out parts just to hit a local trail). I've been thinking about a 265pv with a fatty pipe and midrange porting.

I recently rode a 265 non-pv motor with midrange porting and it ran great, but you had to be on the clutch a lot for tight trails, so I feel a pv may be a better option.

Well it does definately sound like a pv is in order for you then. Why not go with a 310. The price is almost the same and out of all the pro-x cylinders I've read they make just about the best power or atleast as much as the bigger ones and it doesnt require any case work either.

[cjkranz]

For the dunes, everyone I have talked with (multiple engine builders, dune racers, etc) have all leaned towards a 330 kit (pro-x cylinder) NON-powervalved, unless you just want to throw extra $ into the project.. They all said that the 330 kits have the biggest bang for the buck.. And again, for the dunes, a PV isn't required and probably won't make ANY difference (especially if you have a "dune" port job, and the right air-intake set-up, carb and pipe.) I had a 330 non pv and it ran great. As for "low end" on a two stroke, thats almost an oxy-moron. If you are looking for great low-end, buy a 4 stroke. As far as 2-strokes go, yes some have more low-end then others, but again, porting and the pipe will make the most difference.

The 330 non-pv kit was the most popular for the dunes because of 3 things..
cost, durability, and power.

This is just my $0.02, so take it for what its worth....

[deathman53]

Originally posted by matt250r21
All those companies use the Pro X cylinder, main difference is the PV part. ESR makes there own, CT, Sparks and LRD use the Rotax part. Other differences are the sleeve for 246 to 265 cc, CT, Sparks and I think ESR use the aluminum Nikasil sleeve. LRD installs a steel sleeve, why I don't know, the Nikasil is better. Porting will all be different between the compaines. You might want to ask Neil at C-Liegh about doing your portwork.

My lrd 310pv is a nikasil sleeve, I think you have it backwards. Esr's have steel liners. Last time I called they told me it is a steel sleeve and my friend has 2 310pv from Esr.

[deathman53]

Originally posted by matt250r21
All those companies use the Pro X cylinder, main difference is the PV part. ESR makes there own, CT, Sparks and LRD use the Rotax part. Other differences are the sleeve for 246 to 265 cc, CT, Sparks and I think ESR use the aluminum Nikasil sleeve. LRD installs a steel sleeve, why I don't know, the Nikasil is better. Porting will all be different between the compaines. You might want to ask Neil at C-Liegh about doing your portwork.

My lrd 310pv is a nikasil sleeve, I think you have it backwards. Esr's have steel liners. Last time I called they told me it is a steel sleeve and my friend has 2 310pv from Esr.

[deathman53]

Originally posted by matt250r21
All those companies use the Pro X cylinder, main difference is the PV part. ESR makes there own, CT, Sparks and LRD use the Rotax part. Other differences are the sleeve for 246 to 265 cc, CT, Sparks and I think ESR use the aluminum Nikasil sleeve. LRD installs a steel sleeve, why I don't know, the Nikasil is better. Porting will all be different between the compaines. You might want to ask Neil at C-Liegh about doing your portwork.

My lrd 310pv is a nikasil sleeve, I think you have it backwards. Esr's have steel liners. Last time I called they told me it is a steel sleeve and my friend has 2 310pv from Esr.

[honda250xrider]

i'd say the better bang would to go with a non pv motor. simply because 2 strokes have hardly any low end no matter what you try to do. I'm not here to argue with anyone on that mater. the clutch is your best friend on a 2 stroke just learn how to ride it like that and no need for a pv motor, What i've learned it smoothes out the curve of the power so its not so arm ripping. I have never owned one im just going off of other members here.

[deathman53]

a pv is alot smoother, still is arm ripping. The bike still will throw you off, but is more contollable.

[methyman]

Originally posted by deathman53
a pv is alot smoother, still is arm ripping. The bike still will throw you off, but is more contollable.

This man is 100% correct. I have a ESR 330 Pv motor and this motor is powerful and so so smooth and fast(reported by K&T Performance). I had a ESR370 non pv motor(reported by K&T Performance) and it was all mid range/topend. My 330 pv motor I trail ride in tight woods and drag race it also. I beat alot of banshees that are ported and some 4mm stock cylinder motors. I no longer have the 370 motor. I still have the 330 PV it was worth the money for the power valve.

[deathman53]

I have one of them in a trike along with the rest of trx250r hop-up stuff and the last thing I wanted was was a arm ripping un-controllable bike, that was being used for mx. I have one on my trx250r also, its not quite as arm ripping, but a heavier chassis and different pipe can do alot to how hard the motor hits.

[707trx250r]

I really like my 350pv. I havn't seen any down fall besides the price. It has gobs of torque and revs out like crazy. I just put on my cpi pipe, and cr ignition and was lifting the front end in fifth. I love the four stroke torque but still have the ability to rev it out. My motor choice would be a 310-350pv prox set up.
Later
Adam

[Coyoteman]

Originally posted by cjkranz
For the dunes, everyone I have talked with (multiple engine builders, dune racers, etc) have all leaned towards a 330 kit (pro-x cylinder) NON-powervalved, unless you just want to throw extra $ into the project.. They all said that the 330 kits have the biggest bang for the buck.. And again, for the dunes, a PV isn't required and probably won't make ANY difference (especially if you have a "dune" port job, and the right air-intake set-up, carb and pipe.) I had a 330 non pv and it ran great. As for "low end" on a two stroke, thats almost an oxy-moron. If you are looking for great low-end, buy a 4 stroke. As far as 2-strokes go, yes some have more low-end then others, but again, porting and the pipe will make the most difference.

The 330 non-pv kit was the most popular for the dunes because of 3 things..
cost, durability, and power.

This is just my $0.02, so take it for what its worth....

Wow Jason, you don't mess around. I see you bought another YFZ and selling the Raptor. You've owned an R since I seen you at Little Sahara, too. Hope the family's do'n well.

[RichM1983]

Originally posted by cjkranz
For the dunes, everyone I have talked with (multiple engine builders, dune racers, etc) have all leaned towards a 330 kit (pro-x cylinder) NON-powervalved, unless you just want to throw extra $ into the project.. They all said that the 330 kits have the biggest bang for the buck.. And again, for the dunes, a PV isn't required and probably won't make ANY difference (especially if you have a "dune" port job, and the right air-intake set-up, carb and pipe.) I had a 330 non pv and it ran great. As for "low end" on a two stroke, thats almost an oxy-moron. If you are looking for great low-end, buy a 4 stroke. As far as 2-strokes go, yes some have more low-end then others, but again, porting and the pipe will make the most difference.

The 330 non-pv kit was the most popular for the dunes because of 3 things..
cost, durability, and power.

This is just my $0.02, so take it for what its worth....



THANK YOU! Someone who agrees with what I was saying. Great post. I agree 110%