A little help looking for more HP

[outlawchico151]

Well, I been thinking of adding acouple more parts on the 450, problem is I want to look stock, so I was think a new cam and I've read about acouple guys going a bigger piston, help me out a little bikes a 2007 stock only spark arrestor removed, should I go with the big bore ?

[ricks450]

hell yea! theres no substitute for cubic inch. theres a couple of bore kits that are steath so you cant really tell. try trinity racing or ice cube kits. cant really remember who made them steath kits right off. weisco makes kits to.:macho

[outlawchico151]

What websites can I go to see some of them, what's the price range? What kinda power should I expect

[tooanxiousii]

I would just go with a hi compression piston it's alot cheaper..

[CHEVYZ]

Unless you do it right, a big bore for the most part is a waste. The biggest part of the increase is the change in piston, so the bore is only giving you a minimal amount of increase. Unless you get a quality cylinder like ICE CUBE, it can affect the long term reliability of your engine as well.

IMO it would be a better choice to just go with a HC piston over a big bore set up. Don't forget, a cam is probably one of the biggest increase in performance you can do to a mostly stock engine, and it is one of the cheapest options as well, so you are gonna want a cam no matter what road you go down.

[cdrookie]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CHEVYZ
[B]Unless you do it right, a big bore for the most part is a waste. The biggest part of the increase is the change in piston, so the bore is only giving you a minimal amount of increase.



huh:confused: you can't just increase the piston dia without also changing the bore diameter...

[CHEVYZ]

What I mean from that is that the biggest part of the increase comes from changing to an aftermarket piston. Most aftermarket pistons are higher compression, lighter, etc. I am not referring to the increase coming from the size of the piston, but the type of piston being used compared to stock.

[lumi]

hrc kit minus the sub harness and put a filter lid on it.

great performance with positive reliabilty effect... jmho

-lumi

[outlawchico151]

So I should go with the cam and also a aftermarket piston? which cam and what piston should i go? and what jets should i use

[nowukno]

I have had my hotcams stage 2 & 13:1 JE piston for about 6 months now and im still very pleased with the power. :D

[CHEVYZ]

Originally posted by outlawchico151
So I should go with the cam and also a aftermarket piston? which cam and what piston should i go? and what jets should i use IMO, go with the HRC kit since you don't have exhaust. The cam is one of my favorites, and it is a factory cam. For the piston, I say JE 13:1.

If you plan on doing exhaust as well, Sparks MX cam and the same as above for the piston.

[outlawchico151]

im not planing on exhaust im tring ot make it look as stock as possible, Would it be easyer if i just buy the cam instead of the whole hrc kit, and i heard you need a special key(tool) to install the cam that it has alot to do with timing? did you install your own cam?

[CHEVYZ]

You want the exhaust componets that come with the kit (not to mention the subharness, jets, etc. all help). It looks like stock componets, but gives you alot of added flow. I have installed a number of my own cams in quite a few engines, and you don't need a special tool. The only thing that you will need to do from what recall is grind down a small flat head screwdriver to fit the cam chain tensioner. Timing the bike is really easy, just line up the marks. Just make sure you buy a manual.

[One_Bad_400]

The HRC kit is a complete waste of money and time, if you're going to spend the money anyway then why even bother with such a weak cam?

Good headwork and a cam will do you far more good than any piston.

Go ask a real engine builder, get an educated opinion, many people on this site just have an exhaust or just have tried one piston in thier atv career or the HRC kit is the only "aftermarket" stuff they're ever really experienced, they haven't tested an compared different setups like an engine builder has

There's some things that you need to do more research on than just asking a bunch of kids on an ATV forum...

**Not calling the previous posters stupid or anything, just saying that there are definitely better sources for questions like this

[outlawchico151]

Alright One_BAD 400 what would you throw on the 450r to make it look as stock as possible, as quick but reliable

[CHEVYZ]

The reason I say to put money towards the HRC cam is because it isn't such a radical cam. He is going to be running stock exhaust. If you drop a big cam in that will be a waste IMO.

As far as the headwork, I agree. Headwork is probably the best thing you can put your money towards, especially on a modified engine. Headwork takes time, though, and quite a bit more cash than a piston would.

[KrazyKeith]

I dont know alot about the way all the cams perform but I would saysince you want to stay stock looking --for whatever reason that may be just get a hrc kit. What you need for hp is a cam and pipe whatever you choose for cam and pipe is up to you. I would Buy a Web Cam and a Rossier pipe and if you wanted even more get a Baldwin 14:1 piston. With a cam and a pipe on that 07 you will suprised at the power gains. The HRC kit will unleash the power almost as well as any combo. I dont think the bigbore is worth the $$ " HRC kit a complete waste of money"????? thats the most power for the money -$300 any good pipe is gonna be alot more than that and you still need a cam.

[outlawchico151]

well im thinking of doing the cam and the piston, because im tring to make a sleeper is another way of saying it you kno to mess around, because 89-94% of the people will always look for the pipe, if they dont see the pipe they think o hes rolling stock, like this guy said before thats what most people do and only do a pipe n little things hear and there, not expecting someone to have work done to the motor it self,

has anyone hear installed the cam themselves, did you have to remove the whole motor, theres noting special you need to get or do?

lets say i buy a cam and a pistonn14:1 what jets would i need to use?and what cam would you guys recommend

[ricks450]

one bad 400 ive been a mechanic my whole life and built a lot of motors and probably done more hotrodding then most of guys on here. but not everybody are mechanics. your right about head work. but your telling him what he should do when somebody else built your motors. when i was 4 years old i was cleaning carbon off pistons. im only 25 and know more about making power and alot of tricks that i wont tell to make more power. besides just buying parts and putting them in. im no bench racer . i do it and tried differant things. i have experience thats how you learn. and i dont race just ride and been doing it for 21 years. the higher your compression is the harder it beats on your crankshaft. so the ideal thing to make a motor that makes power is more cubic inch and less compression. yes with more compression and cubic inch you will make more power. but it sticks you running race fuel only. the higher compression the higher octane fuel you need. most of the big bore kits come with high comprssion piston and have to run race fuel. but there more about racing not so much on reliability. you can get your head worked to lower the compression with the high compression piston so you can run pump gas. the way you make power is getting air in the motor and back out, the faster the better. the more the better. bigger cubic inch allowse more room for more air. so with a good intake and good head work and exhaust you can make power. high compression is the oldschool way to make power. before they got so advanced on heads. so you can make good power running on pump gas. like one bad 400 said you can get good head work and make alot of power but you need things to go with that like exhaust and intake. if you get head work and dont get air going in and out the head work aint going to do nothing. if you what to keep it stealth and got the money to make power remove airbox lid get a good filter. send your head off, put a cam in it, hrc header pipe because it looks stock and put a big bore kit on it and get some big jets because your going to need more fuel going in the motor. the more air the more fuel. and if you what big*** power convert it to alcohol. ive built several alcohol motors and its a whole another ball game. but its no trail bike after that.

[ricks450]

im not sure about all the differant cams out there for the 450 but hotcam is good and depending where you want your power to be determines what stage cam. i put the stage 2 cam in my bike and no you dont need any special tools and just make sure you adjust the vavles and time it correctly.you should get a shim kit. hot cams sells a kit. they work good. the stage 2 cam puts your power mid to top end . but thats where i wanted it . the cam is so big it bearly fit in the cam holder. thats what im talking about. i took my motor out to make it easier to put in and to adjust vavles. but you dont have to it just easier. just a little bit more work.:D

[One_Bad_400]

ricks450, I didn't say NOBODY on this forum knows what they are talking bout, but that a lot don't. I too have been around this stuff since I was too young to remember, but many people just started riding quads and read that Hot Cams is the best cam and go around telling everybody that...And there is no way to really know if the person knows what they're talking about, but if he goes and talks to an engine builder himself, he knows that person is credible(hopefully lol)

as far as wanting to keep is sleeper, no internal engine work is visible from the outside so I wouldn't even consider that an issue...

the point of a header that ricks450 brought up is a good one too, you'll gain flow from a good header than from a aftermarket muffler. plus thats not something that would really be too noticable

[outlawchico151]

I have a awsome deal on some ATHEN cylinder big bore kits 480cc 94mm , plus the cam what you guys think of that set up or is that a piece of S***........

[ricks450]

thats a good kit but its not that stealth. because it says athena on the side of the cylinder. its a good price to. you can get it off ebay for $610. compared to most kit that cost a grand. but its not going to make as much power as the bigger kits that cost that much. but it will help alot and it will keep you running 93 octane fuel. and its a more reilable kit to because its not as big. and its a bolt on kit to. you dont need to machine your case like the bigger kits. that with a cam will help alot.:)

[outlawchico151]

So i Should jump on that kit uh? later on mayb have it ported

[outlawchico151]

what you guys think about runin with a stroker?