450er Starting

[N2SAND]

IVE HAD MY 450 ELEC START FOR EXACTLY A YEAR ITS ALWAYS BEEN A PAIN TO START GAS NO GAS HOT OR COLD I PUT A SPARKS EXHAUST, FILTER, NEEDLE AND 175 MAIN JET IT SEEMED TO GET A LITTLE EASIER TO START.. NOW THE THING WONT START AT ALL BECAUSE THE START CLUTCH IS GONE IS THERE ANYONE WHO HAS REPAIRED THIS PROBLEM

[lumi]

have u tryed giving gas while u are holding the e-start button?
have u tryed to crank it for more than 3 seconds..

:) starter clutch is something like 50 bucks for a new one... i would also get a new right side gasket so maybe around 70 bucks in parts if u havent damged it too much....



-lumi

[Prey]

and make sure you change the spark plug religously every few months depending on how much you ride,

the crf/trx 450s dont like to start when the plug has a few miles on it.

[EASTHILL]

Originally posted by Prey
and make sure you change the spark plug religously every few months depending on how much you ride,

the crf/trx 450s dont like to start when the plug has a few miles on it.

I have a 05 450r and have never changed the plug with 2 full race seasons and lots of practice training inbetween.

my quad gets top 3 holeshots in gncc starts everytime.

never touch the gas when starting!;)

[lumi]

easthill u gave him the secret i was gonna trick him for my tricl question/... :) alot of people will complain that there starters and the quad wont start and when i tell them that its because its ur fault they say "NO I KNEW THAT" LOL so i find this way is easier


but it may not be the case.



-lumi

[Prey]

well guys, he did say he tried starting it with no gas on....

and ole easty, since you dont really own an 06.... and i specifically called out the crf/trx motor.... you get the idea right

[EASTHILL]

Your right-I have an 07 now.
and i am converting it to a kick -DOE!

[Prey]

why didnt you just buy the kicker to start with, save yourself 100 on the atv and 400 on the kicker?

[lumi]

it doesnt really matta if he is starting it with no gas now.... a couple big hits for the starter and it gets toast fast.... i think he made another thread saying his starter is gone... so hearing the words he tryed starting it with gas on only brings me to believe that he has destroyed his starter clutch



-lumi

[EASTHILL]

Finding a 07 kick was harder than I expected at the time-
I paid 6000 out the door.

[Prey]

Originally posted by EASTHILL
Finding a 07 kick was harder than I expected at the time-
I paid 6000 out the door.

thats a very good price, what class are you going to race this year?

[EASTHILL]

Old man A:rolleyes:
You?

[Prey]

Originally posted by EASTHILL
Old man A:rolleyes:
You?

Vet B, when you say old man A, i assume you are talking vet A? is that right?

if so why? seemed like you had a pretty stellar performnace in open A last year

[EASTHILL]

Thanks-
this will be my 11 year of nationals-
Im 37 in june and I feel like I put my time in and vet A is a logical choice for me in 2007.
Training and mid week practice rides have
been replaced with a heavier work schedule since ironman last year.
My longtime partner and travel companion is going back to school this year for his engineering degree so it looks like ill be on my own for a few races which puts more pressure on me and takes much more time
to get ready,make good time on the road and have everything cleaned and ready by the following week-You know the drill.

[woodsracer300r]

Originally posted by N2SAND
IVE HAD MY 450 ELEC START FOR EXACTLY A YEAR ITS ALWAYS BEEN A PAIN TO START GAS NO GAS HOT OR COLD I PUT A SPARKS EXHAUST, FILTER, NEEDLE AND 175 MAIN JET IT SEEMED TO GET A LITTLE EASIER TO START.. NOW THE THING WONT START AT ALL BECAUSE THE START CLUTCH IS GONE IS THERE ANYONE WHO HAS REPAIRED THIS PROBLEM


There was a brand new OEM starter on ebay that someone was selling if its still there...

[Prey]

Originally posted by EASTHILL
Thanks-
this will be my 11 year of nationals-
Im 37 in june and I feel like I put my time in and vet A is a logical choice for me in 2007.
Training and mid week practice rides have
been replaced with a heavier work schedule since ironman last year.
My longtime partner and travel companion is going back to school this year for his engineering degree so it looks like ill be on my own for a few races which puts more pressure on me and takes much more time
to get ready,make good time on the road and have everything cleaned and ready by the following week-You know the drill.

cool, i did not realize your age, i just basically knew of you.

Good luck in Vet A, see ya on the start line sometime

[sled_ed 300ex]

this is probly dumb to ask but did you change the pilote jet when you put your pipe and stuff??if not theres your real probleme you dont have enough gas going in to your bottom end to get it started......and does it back fire alitle???

[BSTURDIVANT]

The main problem with the ER is poor engineering!! No mater whether you give it gas or not, it still kicks back at times because the starter doesn't have enough umph to crank it! They always kick back do to compression after shutting off causing little marks on the starter clutch hub. Eventually those little marks become craters and then lack of engagement! Starting with the gas pushed only speeds the process! Anyone that hasn't had problems will eventually have them, depending on starts and stops!
We added a kick to ours and guess what- it still hicks back once in a while engaging the starter clutch! And yes, starting the same process of tearing up the starter clutch!

You would think that since the old 400ex start system worked so good that Honda "engineers" would have designed a better system!
We have contacted reps about redesigning the starter, but I guess the cost of replacing starter motors on thousands of quads outweighs the complaints!

We have found that replacing the battery with a higher cold cranking amp spins it faster prolonging the life of the clutch!

[lumi]

for a faster spinning starter the decomp can be adjusted...

the battery shouldnt be able to spin it up to how much the decomp allows.....

the sound u might hear is the decomp slappng back and not a actual backfiring of the starter system.... now back firing can occur of course because of jetting aswell but usally not the case...
giving gas isnt the main problem if u stay on the gas and it starts congrats.... but there a cut off switch on the carb so when u release that thorrtle the engine will engage and crap the starter and or back fire....



just info...



-lumi

[Dave400ex]

Brent even with adding the kicker to your e-start it can still damage the starter clutch?

Man am I glad I just bought a kicker.

[BSTURDIVANT]

We had ours out and looked at it after abou 3 hrs of use and it already nad notches on the hub! The hub seems to be soft and grooves guickly!
One of the guys in our area couldn't kick start his 06 because of the starter clutch grabbing! He was using the red Honda tranny oil and was too thick to keep the clutch lubed!

[Dave400ex]

It sounds like the only way to get rid of the starter clutch issues is to remove the e-start, or buy a kickstart to begin with.

Brent have you heard of any problems with the 06-07 kickstarts?

[lumi]

ill tell ya the truth i can only speak for a couple e-starts with no grooves on the hubs.... i can imagine some type of grinding once the thing is on its way out of course but not on a new machine .... and once its grooved it shouldnt take long before its dumps.... imo if this was the case the couple er's with about 100 hours on it would have took a dumo from grinding on itself onto the hub but doesnt seem like it......

but i have seen some starters that just have no explanantion which get me thinking sometimes. .... ummm




-lumi

[N2SAND]

thanks for the feed back guys I just want to know what parts to buy im going to tear it down this week, I have already called and complained to honda they dont seem to think there is a problem with the starter I hope that when yours goes out you also call honda maybe if enough of us call they will do something and btw the gas while starting is bs the e start souldnt be that sensitive mine only lasted a year and thats recreational riding in the dunes

[lumi]

im with u man.... there nothing to cpmpensate for the kickback like on the yfz starting system and the new raptor..... :( stupid honda or else these things would be bullet proof... why honda chose to do this i habe no idea... and why they did it again for 07... still no idea.. but there is a way to deal with it imo....
the 600 raptor had the same problem but some aftermarket companies come out with a two way starter clutch for it and solved the problem.


-lumi

[BSTURDIVANT]

Kick starts have been pretty reliable!

[400exrider0004]

No mater whether you give it gas or not, it still kicks back at times because the starter doesn't have enough umph to crank it!

Thats the answer right there!!! The battery doesnt have enough umph to kick it over!!!!

[lumi]

lol.. dont u guys wonder how those big bore 14:1 comp guys start there engines with there small battery and weak starter.... all has to do with the decomp... can compensate for alot of things.


kicker is a goo choice, but can get old at time.. its 2006!! damn it... honda should have put something like the yfz starter system... damn japs!!!!!!


-lumi

[TWISTED]

I almost hate to chime in here but, I had an 04 that never had any starting issues, even in 15 degree weather. I bought my 07 in Sept, and it's a pain to get going, even on a 65 degree day. Sometimes it'll act like it's gonna start, then it won't. When I try to start it again, it sounds like it's turning so free that it has no compression. I'll let off the button and try again, and it'll fire up finally. I've noticed it's been doing this more and more frequently. Is this the starter clutch beginning to go bad??? I've had several 400ex's, and never had any problems, other than leaving the key on. Wish I would've bought a kicker....

[lumi]

SOUNDS LIKE IT... i wish they could made th starters like that aswell....


as for now im gonna still gonna stick with my theory but that doesnt mean its correct while mine can take a dump any day.. and i will be on here declearing a recall be put out. lma0o


but companys only like safety recalls not engine part malfunctions and stuff... like the crank bearing fr 04,05 they made a replacment upodated part... *******s



-lumi

[nasty88r]

Hey Bsturdivant which battery did you replace with? It seems to me that there will have to be mods made to the batt box because I can't find a battery that will fit in the stock box that has more cca's. Did you actually replace you battery with more cold cranking amps if so could you give me the batt number??

Thanx for any help Tony..

[BSTURDIVANT]

Any battery you use will require battery box mods- The YTZ10S has 190 CCA but is longer requiring the rear section to be cut to fit! Others up to 230CCA can be used but these are taller also!

[Prey]

Hey Brent,

I also tried testing batteries with additional cca (i cannot remember how many cca it was now, but the largest battery i tried was out of a vfr750 interceptor)

while i did notice the started cranked over faster, i noticed no real difference in starting any faser so i never bothered with even thinking about a bigger battery.

here comes the stupid question... when you were testing with the other batteries, did you try upping the compression to say 55-60psi? (stock decompressor is supposed to be set around 45psi i think). guess i was just thinking if you had the battery and the if the starter could handle a few more psi maybe that would help her get to starting a little quicker? I did not try this , nor do i have any idea how destructive it might be? was just wondering if you/the people you are working with had tried it.