Everybody read--> Major problem with Hotcam...

[skemp]

Okay guys, I have a problem, and it might affect those of you who have Hotcams as well...

I have my motor torn down because my timing chain snapped, and I found, on top of a few other things, that the flange on my cam is very loose. When I pressed the flange on, it was very snug, but now it wiggles and I can pull it off the cam by hand. It looks like the splines in the flange are okay, and it also looks like the splines on the cam are good too, but something isn't right. I am, for the time being, going to order a new flange and try that. I think the flange being loose it what caused my timing chain to break. I don't mean to get you other guys with Hotcams out there worried, but maybe there is something wrong with the cam to make the flange become loose.

[Leo]

still have your stock cam laying around..? see how the flange fits back on it...

if it fit's loose, you know the flange is fubar..

if it's still a press fit you know the camshaft is fubar..

Leo

[ryanh250ex]

Originally posted by Leo
still have your stock cam laying around..? see how the flange fits back on it...

if it fit's loose, you know the flange is fubar..

if it's still a press fit you know the camshaft is fubar..

Leo


i know this is off-topic......but what in the world is FUBAR?

[chavez]

F*** up beond all repair

[86atc250r]

Mine's been running now for several months on a Hot Cam with Zero troubles. Even been running flat track lately, where it's pretty much on the rev limiter the whole time.

Sounds like you may not have gotten the flange pressed on all the way or may have damaged it upon installation. Then again, there's always those freak problems....

I noticed that the splines were not "exactly perfect" matched to the flange as the stocker was. If you were a little off you may have been pressing the splines flat.

Hot cams had and has a great concept with the no core chg etc but they still have some QC problems to get right.

I was lucky enough to get one of the very first ones they shipped and they didnt even come with the correct specs or cam cards. Was interesting when speaking with their rep to find this out and also that they were not accepting any type of responsibility for swapping out for a new one.

No big problem and not even an expensive part, but let Web try and pull something like that when I go for the 479.

[Razorback]

Originally posted by ryanh250ex



i know this is off-topic......but what in the world is FUBAR?

actually, f***ed up beyond all recognition.

[skemp]

Well, it's the cam.
Still fits very snug on the stock cam. Funny thing is, I had a pro press the flange on, and watched him do it. Looked like he did it right...
I guess I can call up HotCams, but I almost know I won't get anywhere. It looks like the splines are worn out. Right where the flange was, the splines look twisted... It almost makes me not want to buy another one. Oh well, I guess I have to do what I have to do.

[Castor-426ex]

call em...cuss them....cuss them again....threaten them...talk about lawyers and such..tell them to get it right...or its gonna get bad...real bad....or you could just beg..lol

[Sick0]

call the up tell there product is crap

[Razorback]

just tell them that 4000 honda EX riders read your post about their problems and many of them are potential buyers. if they do you right on this problem, that will certainly help them in the long run.

Guy I had a problem with them and they couldnt give a rats arse and basicly told me to go pound salt.

Guess what cams I will never buy again!

And if you intend to blow off hot cams better blow off pivot works also since they are one in the same. But thats not a big loss since pivot specializes in cheap crap chinese bearings anyhow.

have fun.

[Wired]

makes me want to take my 416 apart and see what my hotcams condition is like.... not good :(

[YZROOSTINYA]

i was just about to order one!!!!!!:grr

let us know

[skemp]

I really liked the increase in performance that I got with the Stage 2 cam, so I wanted another one, thinking that this was just a fluke, and maybe, just maybe something got messed when the flange was pressed on. I called HotCams, and guess what, no replacement, and no discount on a new cam. They told me there is no way the cam was at fault, and the press operator didn't know what he was doing. I should have brought it to an engine builder to have it done (even though there are instructions for Joe Schmoe to do it on their site). Apparently, there is no warranty...

Okay, now going against what you may think, I went ahead and bought one anyway. A stage 2 from Dennis Kirk. It came today, and to my surprise, it isn't a stage 2, or at least not the same stage 2 that I got before. I ordered it from Dennis Kirk before, and selected the STAGE 2 both times. I got the stage 1.

I called Dennis Kirk, and they checked to make sure they shipped me the stage 2. Yep, they did. I told them that it was actually what they have listed as the stage 1, and they said that they haven't gotten any new info from Hotcams to change their listings on the site, so everything should be the same as it was before. They were very nice about it, and suggested I call Hotcams. So I called Hotcams again and told them that I got the Stage 1 instead of the Stage 2, and asked why they switched the names on the two. It was some jerk that told me that the NAMES WILL VARY FROM VENDOR TO VENDOR!!! So I guess from C&D racing it is the stage 2, and it is the stage 1 from DK.

I know I need to stop rambling, but I am definitely not a happy camper. I am going to keep this cam, and just give it a try. You still can't beat the price and the fact that there is no core charge.

I have one suggestion for all of you though...
If good, friendly customer service, honesty, quality product, and accurate specs on products is something you look for in a company, AVOID HOTCAMS!!!!!

Thanks for the help so far. For all I care, this company can go out of business and I can buy my cams from somebody that gives a hoot about customers. :grr :grr :grr :grr :grr :macho :macho :mad:

[mxracer111]

try a stock xr 400 cam. it comes right from honda with a compression release on it, no core charge, no hard rockers, or heavy springs needed. it is a great cam pulls hard down low and great up top too. and for only aroun $140

The Xr cam is smaller than both the stage1 or 2.

Its not going to perform as well as either also.

Skemp I had the same basic bs from hot cam, but with one little diff. The guy I had spoke with was 100% but the owners are a bunch of dip asses who admitted they would rather have their name dragged around as crap than make good on a part that I estimate costs them around 40.00.

They have some very large confusion on the two stages and even had admitted it but still offered to do nothing and dont expect to correct their problems either.

The only thing I cant figure out is what made you go get another one?

BTW if you can post the specs from the cam card so we know what you got and to compare to the ones we all have.

thnx

[CAIN730]

Anyone else think that the twisted splines could be a side effect of the timing chain snapping? Was it the original timing chain, how much use?

No, but what ever caused the chain to break could have also put stress on the splines.

[Sick0]

bump:devil :huh :huh

[MIKE400EX]

There should be some tell-tale evidence somewhere that would indicate the reason all this happened. Are there any bearings that are tight or don't roll smoothly, especially the two on the cam? Did the center cam journal bind up? Are there any marks on the pistons from the valve(s) hitting? etc... You need to find and fix that problem(s) before you put it back together - even with new parts.

[skemp]

440EX4me, I don't know why I got another one. I guess the main reason is that I want to ride the thing, and they are relatively cheap compared to other brands, and I get to keep my stocker which is also nice. I still might bring it back since DK is only an hour from me if I can find a better deal, because I have to do some machine work on my head (broke some bolts off). If I do keep the cam, and this happens again, I will go there personally and jam it down their throats.

You see, everything was fine and dandy before this happened. I had a small leak in my head gasket (Cometic crap), and was going to take down the motor to get my head ported and polished. I started it up to ride it in my garage, and after about 10 seconds of idling, SNAP and I hit the kill switch right away. There the timing chain was, broken, and the flange was loose on the cam.


I don't care so much anymore, because I have a new cam, and new parts are coming. I am more worried about getting the bolts out of my head and cylinder that I broke.

Oh yeah, and after looking at the spec card, get this---

Intake: Exhaust
Lift: 8.85mm Lift: 8.60mm
Lobe Center: 106 Lobe Center: 107
Duration@1mm: 232 Duration@1mm: 229

That isn't even as aggressive as the Stage 1. It doesn't even match the specs of the Stage 1 or Stage 2!!!!! On second thought, I think I will be making a trip to Dennis Kirk to make a return. let me know if anybody has the same specs as I do on this black sheep of a cam... :grr

What caused the head bolt problem???

Is the head off yet? If so anything going on there?

[skemp]

Yeah, the head is off, and everything looks good there, nothing out of the ordinary. The bolts broke when I was taking them out because when I assembled the engine before, I realized that the torque wrench was messed, so it was a lot more torque than was required. I tried tapping on the bolt heads before taking them out, but it didn't work. It didn't take much to break them. That is totally unrelated though, operator error :D

[VegasEx'r]

WTF is Hot Cams doing? I would definately take that back, and look into a diferent brand cam if I were in your shoes.

I guess I will count myself as lucky, since I have had great results w/ my cam (& my spec sheet was correct, although I never put it on a dial to check it. It sounds like they have some serious QC problems over there, and if that is the case, they probably won't last too long.

Hope you get everything figured out.

[Ketch]

Ok i have both cams in my possession some of the first once.Skemp your card is for a stage1 cam. The only differance
is the duration between the two.

[400ex99]

stage 1 duration is 232 & 229; what is the duration for the stage 2 cam? im suppose to have a stage 2 cam, im going to check my #'s:confused:

[Ketch]

Duration for stage2 is in. 254 ex.254

Well I was lookin at the stage 2 cam but it kinda sounds like hotcams is selling dog turds instead of cams....keep the info coming..:D

[440sparks]

If hot are making these cams and not rebuilding core's then they might be using a lower grade metal that wears quick.

I have a white bros. "all around cam" for sale. Its not as top end aggressive as the Hot stage 2 but its in excellent shape.

Or call TC or Sparks. I know for sure Sparks sells 3 different "drop-in" cams from $159-$375

info. at Sparks web site. ]

http://www.sparksracing.com/Sparks_Frame_1.htm

[VegasEx'r]

Originally posted by 440sparks
If hot are making these cams and not rebuilding core's then they might be using a lower grade metal that wears quick.


That could be true, but I don't see any evidence here that would suggest that. The first cam had the splines twisted on it. The cam chain also broke. It sounds like something happened to make the cam not want to spin, but the crank continued, so the chain broke & the splines twisted.
The second cam has specs that are inconsistent from the first "stage 2" cam, and of course, throughout this whole deal, Hot Cams service has been less than satisfactory (to put it altogether too nicely).
Skemp, have you put a dial on the old cam to see if the specs are off on it yet? I'd be curious to see if it is in spec or not.

[Extremeracer167]

it sounds to me like hot cams are a bunch of butt munchers. As a bike shop manager, i appreciate u letting me know about this, so that way i know to try and direct customers in another direction. Hope u get it all straightened out. it sounds to me that the cam froze up some how. and like the other guy said, the crank kept going putting to much stress on the chain. Ide def. get some new bearings for that. Try TC racing, i know it will take a core, but i love his cam that i got from him. www.tcracingengines.com

[skemp]

I am definitely not impressed with Hotcams so far. Like I said, I loved the power increase, but if their product can't hold up to normal riding, and they are going to be dicks, I will find another brand. I will be returning the new cam this weekend. So far, I have my eye on one of TC's cams. Rico, I would say to play it safe and go with another brand.

Maybe all of this is a freak accident, but I won't be putting another one of their cams into my engine. Thanks for all of the info guys.

BTW, the bearings all seem to be fine. The rod has a tiny bit of side to side play (really barely noticable), but there is zero up and down movement. I am just going to assemble it and hope for the best.

[400exRacerX]

Get yourself a sparks heavy duty cam chain now.

[skemp]

That is taken care of. :)

[VegasEx'r]

Skemp, it could be that the chain breaking & splines twinsting were a freak thing, but their customer service is not. They should have handled it much differently.

[Wired]

well damnit, this is making me scared to even look in my engine. this winter im going to do a full inspection, and if anything with the cam is out of order, im not going to hesitate to get a different cam even if the cam is still in decent shape. but if i notice even the smallest thing, im not going to risk it. this is bs if you ask me! :grr :grr :mad:

[VegasEx'r]

Originally posted by WiredCinqmars
well damnit, this is making me scared to even look in my engine. this winter im going to do a full inspection, and if anything with the cam is out of order, im not going to hesitate to get a different cam even if the cam is still in decent shape. but if i notice even the smallest thing, im not going to risk it. this is bs if you ask me! :grr :grr :mad:

You should've bought the xr cam from me. :blah j/k

[Sick0]

Are you supose to hardface your rockers and use heavyer springs with hot cams.

[VegasEx'r]

nope, it is a drop in.

[Dave400ex]

Man I thought about looking at the Hot Cams, but I am going with TC for sure now. I advise everybody to go with TC. I have had nothing but good luck from him, even though I have only gotten his Pipe so far, every time I talk to him he makes sure you understand and takes his time to explain stuff.

[Castor-426ex]

ig ot a stage one...heres the specs

intake
lift 9.0mm
lobe center: 106
Duration@1mm:246
valve Lash: .15mm


Exhaust
Lift:9.0mm
Lobe Center: 107
Duration@1mm : 246
Valve Lash: .20mm




well i can push my flange on the cam all the way with my hand...and its brand new....it goes on pretty easy...so itll come off really easy...this is bull****...and if taking it to the head of hotcams is the answer ill do it...Cand D racing had info on the problem but i cant find the thread

[phatswinn]

from what ive heard hotcams stands behind there products 100%, call them and tell them your problem and they will probably send you a new one if ya send the old one back, just tell them ur problem cuz most big industy parts makers will replace messed up parts if it was there fault

[oynot400]

I was talking with Hetricks last night about possibly changing cams. The Hot Cams is one that they carry. However, are having the same problem with the flange coming loose. Hot Cam is aware of the problem and are working on it. I would not buy one unless you call Hot Cam themselves and comfirm the problem has been fixed.
Hetricks will not sell one until the problem has been solved. You got to like a company like that! :D

well i've pretty much made up my mind and will not get one at all...i've debating gettin one for months..here bad things,,then here good things..then bad things...sounds like hot cams customer service is top notch..but their products are junk..I want a good working product..not a person 2000 miles away with a good attitude..:(

Looks like Tom Cruise racing is gonna get my money after all...:eek:

[anywhereEx]

For everyone all pissy at hotcams quit whining. I ordered a stage 2 from colby a few weeks ago and when it came in I had the same problem with the flange. Called and Colby mailed me another that day and cut me a break on the next item to cover shipping the cam back(good customer service) The second cam that I got I had the same problem. Called Colby back and hed did not give me a BS answer he told me he could get me another cam but not in a fair ammount of time and advised me to call hotcams direclty.

I called hotcams:mad: and talked to there tech guy. He told me to send him the cam and he would replace it no problem. I told him screw that I have been messing with this thing way to long and have to get the engine put together this week. He told me to 2nd day air it to him and he will 2nd day air one right back and send me a check to pay for the shipping. Here it is friday at noon and my cam showed up as promised with a check in the box for shipping. I checked the flange and there is no way that I can get the sprocket on by hand.

Everyone needs to understand that a high performance product is like everything else. Things happen, to expect a company to never fail when you are talking about machined clearances is reduculouse. And they are hard to stop when you are mass producing them. In a perfect world there is no need for customer service:D so before you get yer panties all in a bunch remember you are buying a performance part and things happen.......

[Doibugu2]

Can someone post a pic of what you are talking about. I have not been inside my engine yet, and am not sure what this thing looks like.

[Mxbubs]

I just called Hotcams and what a shocking surprise, I was not able to talk to a human.....imagine that.

So I left a message, told them I was and exriders.com member and many of our members are having trouble with their cams, and there lack to help them. I invited them to the forum, made it clear we are 7000 strong, and are thinking about boycotting their products. I left my number and email address, but from what I have heard, these numbnuts are not going to contact me.


The flange on the cam should not have more than 5 thousandths movement from end to end. Maybe 6, but anymore than that, is not good. If the bearings are cheap, that is going to give you an extra 2 thousandths movement from end to end on the cam too. If you get around 15-25 thousandths (which is possible when your motor is turning 8000 rpms) your flange bolts will likely slightly scrape the head, slowing it down just momentarly and making it jump time. End to end movement I believe is the major cause.

If they dont do anything for us, we need to BOYCOTT. Stick together, and they dont stand a chance. They can pound salt.

I think Hotcams just beat out Elka for Junk Product of the month...:ermm:

[SlapNutz]

the mekanik down the rode told us they suck *****. me and bro gotta get some stuff to make are 400s quick, but it will be saver than when i rode that gagas, it was hard to make not whreck, i dont ride onthe fansy trax like this site does, cuz says i cant say our locations

[Mxbubs]

Originally posted by SlapNutz
the mekanik down the rode told us they suck *****. me and bro gotta get some stuff to make are 400s quick, but it will be saver than when i rode that gagas, it was hard to make not whreck, i dont ride onthe fansy trax like this site does, cuz says i cant say our locations

What are yo smoking?

[Mxbubs]

Originally posted by Rico
I think Hotcams just beat out Elka for Junk Product of the month...:ermm:

I hope your kidding.

[HONDA55]

:confused: :huh :confused:

Originally posted by Mxbubs
I hope your kidding.

Yeah I forgot to add the <sarcasm on> and <sarcasm off> thingies in there..;)


These sound like lagetimate problems with the manufactured part..unlike the Elka problems were people mount them upside down or have the adjustments all jacked up but blame it on the craftsmanship of the shock...:rolleyes: Anywho enough about shocks..let get back to the subject of every 1 outa 5 hotcams is jacked up...:confused2

[SlapNutz]

Originally posted by Mxbubs
What are yo smoking?

somthin cuz gets us :macho

[Doibugu2]

Anyone else notice Slapnutz seems to post behind Rico in awful lot?

Rico, did you go off your meds again?:eek:

Originally posted by Doibugu2


Rico, did you go off your meds again?:eek:

No sir,,,I'm under Dr. orders to take 2 qualudes a day for the next 25 years...:uhoh:

[Doibugu2]

Can you refer me to your Dr. I think he might me more knowledgable than mine.:D

[Castor-426ex]

well i sent it to hotcams under the assurance that ill get a good one back pronto I hope so

Ill keep ya posted:(

[PHIL_B54]

while discussing this with the guys in the shop at work, i explained the problem, and here is a thought
when you press something on it is an interference fit and therefore some material has to be compressed, if pressed off correctly and pressed back on correctly this shouldnt be a problem, but if you were to press it off a little crooked and back on a little crooked , maybe you would have moved or deformed the material on the flange enough to cause a loose condition
this explaination does not go with compairing the flange back to the stock cam , but it might be a factor that people are overlooking
a new flange from honda is like $23, personally i am planning for the future a hotcam II and i will purchase a new flange for it, this will save me pressing it off the stocker and possibly damaging it, and also eliminate the possibility of wear on the part of the flange

just a thought

[anywhereEx]

Well here I am putting the top end back together and I get a phone call. Hotcams called me about the cam that I just got in today wanting it back. Again I was quite ticked off cause this will make #3. The guy asked me how many pounds of pressure it took to press the flange on (190-200psi) and it was still not up to their standards. And no, on this cam you could not put it on by hand. I talked to them about the problems for a little bit and finding out that the steel that they had recieved was not in the jig symetrically. Something that can happen...The guy told me quickly that he had to get off the phone so that he can package me a good cam with a flange pressed on at a little over 500lbs with the agreement that I would send my flange with the bad cam. Needless to say I was never hurried off the phone for such a good reason:o

About 15 minuites later their tech manager Tony called me back and talked to me for quite a while about the problem. The first words out of his mouth was you new cam is packaged wating for fedex to pick it up and that it will be here tomorrow. And that he would eb callign me on moday to make sure that everything went ok and that there was no problems

Hotcams/Pivot Works are well aware of the site and this thread. I so not know if they plan on creating a logon and posting like woz, John Arens and some of the other big names but I am happy with the way that they are trying to fix the situation.

[Sandragggen]

I've used WebCam and had no problems with either of the two cams I've used....450/451 and 463i. Harden your rockers and be done with it. The 479 might be a decent mid road cam.

[TIGER72]

IF THIS IS ALL TRUE, I JUST GOT A CAM SHAPED PAPERWEIGHT IN YESTERDAYS MAIL.:ermm: I HATE TO CHICKEN OUT, BUT I THINK I'M GETTING A DIFFERENT CAM...MAYBE IF WE COULD HEAR FROM SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAVE POSITIVE RESULTS WITH THIS CAM. IN KNOW THERE IS SOME GOOD THINGS SAID ABOUT THEM IN THIS THREAD, BUT THE BAD STUFF OUTWIEGHS THE GOOD SO FAR...

[Castor-426ex]

man the head guy at hotcams is really helping me alot.. i guess bad things happen..nobody is perfect but ill wait it out and tell how it goes

[PHIL_B54]

maybe someone needs to tell hotcams to pre press the flange on, this would eliminate them even shipping out the junk ones, and they may be better able to track their problem, like i say i will spend the extra $ for a new one, why not just have it already on it and pay an extra $35 for the cam with flange, it would still be cheaper that the rest, and it would be correct

[breaks-alot]

JB Racing in East Springfield P.A. put my stage 2 in this summer. Jody is now a good friend of mine. When he did my motor he just knew me through some people. Well anyway all he did was put the stage 2, 11:1 weisco stock bore piston in. I am his guinea pig to see how good this cam work. And the piston is because I wanted to run off of pump gas. Anyway my bike stays side by side with a raptor until he clicks up to 6th (only because I had bald turfies on and he had a brand new tires) and it stays with a stock 2002 reproduction motored 250R (all Laeger components including frame)until he's in 5th. I even pull off the Holeshot on him. I've only done small things to improve h.p. Like shorty t-4, uni with cover off, cut snorkel, shaved welds on header and turfies on beadlocks. Anyway I’ve put so many hours on this cam, has to be about 500 hours on that cam. That’s ridding for hours EVERY night mainly with GNC pro Matt Bartosek. Not just casual ridding but full out never let off the throttle MX. I actually am so hard on my 400 to try and make it compete with my friend’s yz's and r's that I don't even let off the throttle. ***** at me all you want about frying clutches but I go as fast into the corner as possible and just slip the clutch a few times while braking and I’m off. Actually you could tape my throttle wide open and that’s how I ride. Now talk about abuse on a motor and it still holding up 100%. I have nothing but praises for my hot cam. I wish it was more aggressive but the power is where I use it. I never let my motor drop to the bottom end of the power band. I pull out of corners in the mid and keep it pinned. So I guess you've just had some bad luck. Those people thinking about buying one I say GO FOR IT! Just have someone that you trust (a good quad mechanic, not just a friend of yours) put it in for you.

[dariusld]

I want to know how many of these cams went out in this condition. I have one that I have not installed yet. I have had it for 2 months, waiting for desert season to end. Now I'm worried. I wonder if it was a certain batch with a time frame? How did Hotcams figure it out? Or if the customer complaints rolled in and thats how they figured it out? I guess when I go to install it I will know if mine is one of them.

[gojk]

Just got my Hotcam stg2 in and it runs like a bat out of ****. I have put only about 5 hrs on the motor and all I can say everytime I ride it is WOW.

[gojk]

I got one more question though. Can someone explain why the Stg 2 is suppose to be more of a top end cam? The lift is less than the stage 1. Is it because it is later in the revolution?

[RAPTORAZ]

Originally posted by gojk
I got one more question though. Can someone explain why the Stg 2 is suppose to be more of a top end cam? The lift is less than the stage 1. Is it because it is later in the revolution?

The Stage II has more top end because it has a longer duration. Duration is the amount of time, in degrees of rotation, that the valves are off their seat. The Stage II probably has less lift due to piston to valve clearances. However that last statement is pure speculation on my part. As for Hot Cam problems, mine has about 30 hours on it and is problem free so far.

man the head guy at hotcams is really helping me alot
Figures you would be gettin help from the "head-guy" :eek: :D :devil

But seriously I have received some positive feedback from them (Tony) just recently and will update you all on what happens.

As most of you know I have not been happy with this cam since I received it so this could be a happy ending to an "old" problem.

[luvmyex]

I went on my first ride with my cam and piston today.As long as it holds up it is a great improvement over stock.I never went over 1/2 throttle if i did it wasnt by much,but it was almost like running 3/4 to full throttle before.we were riding wide packed sand trails and i wish it was already broke in so i could have really seen what it would do.I think its going to haul arse!

[Braff1]

I just installed my Hot Cams last weekend and completed the break in period. When I went to put the flange pressed on I checked myself to make sure that the fit was tight and even told the shop guy to let me know if it didn't seem to fit tight. Well it is on there tighter than a frogs butt and thats water proof!! I am just waiting now for the weather to get better here so I can do some serious riding.

[Castor-426ex]

im thinking that the flange has to be pressed on at about 500lbs
thats what it took to get mine off the stock cam

[YZROOSTINYA]

60 hours, all good

[Castor-426ex]

hopefully the next cam i get, Ill be just a pleased

[hotex]

A note from the owner of Hot Cams.

To TRX Riders

There seems to be a lot of questions concerning the loose spline fitment of the Hot Cams TRX camshaft. I would like to address some of these questions so that we can help the people affected. Firstly, I should introduce myself. My name is Curtis Leaverton and I own Hot Cams and Pivot Works. In producing any product, manufacturing errors do occur. What separates a good company from a poor company is how well they take care of their customers after the fact. I want to make it very clear that if you suspect that your cam has loose splines we will send you a new cam or check your current cam. You need to contact Tony Tice here at Hot Cams, 515-402-8005 ext 104. If Tony is not at his phone then leave your number and he WILL return your call. I also need to point out that only about 50 cams might have potential problems so the vast majority of customers will not have any issues.
Since it only takes about 30 ft/lbs of torque to spin a camshaft, the forces on the splines are quite small. This is why many cams only require two very small 6mm bolts to mount and support the sprocket. Simply stated there is not much load acting on a cam spline. In fact, we have not seen a loose spline ever fail, period. Our goal is to supply the customer with the best product possible. If you feel that you might have a problem then please call us we will take care of you – I promise. Thank you.

Sincerely
Curtis L. Leaverton

[Castor-426ex]

heres my story...I had a stage one with the loose spline problem so i got with tony on helping me get a good cam...hes a good guy to deal with and exchanged me cams pronto...well now ive got the same problem...Ive got one flange brand new...and one that came off my stocker.....BOTH go on by hand...i mean i had to check it...i want to be sure about things that go in my motor...the new cam i got also has a little chip on lobe number 1...could have been damaged by shipping...i just now took it out of the package

I emailed Tony Tice about this but i just found out cause i got home from work...what do I do? Risk it? put the flange on and hope for the best? somebody give me some input

my stock flange came off the cam with about 300lbs on the press....i dont think my hand can push that much

[Castor-426ex]

if all else fails Ill just weld it on Lmao...kidding....

bumping it up here ...good info needed

[Castor-426ex]

super bump!

[Mxbubs]

You know, it just occurred me to......When I had my 400ex I had used a WEB cam also, and I remember taking the flange off and on with my hands after I loosened the two bolts....

HMMMNN.......I used to think that was normal, but after reading this, I am not so sure.....That is normal right?

[Castor-426ex]

you know i cant complain about Hotcams customer service
Tony Tice is on this problem and is eager to help anyone with an issue..Im just anxious to get the quad goin again. :)

[Ex_Rider43]

Originally posted by Rico
I think Hotcams just beat out Elka for Junk Product of the month...:ermm:

what rico is that a joke!!?? what happened with elka??

I jjust got my hotcam wednesday guys and Im a little scared about it. Im very low on money now and If this cam failed again I dont know what Ill do. lets pray for it.

[Castor-426ex]

well Tony Tice hooked me up yet again...hes gonna pre press the flange on for me..to make sure that the next cam i get is the last...if you have any issues call him...he will take care of you...if the flange goes on by hand...thats a no no...

he said hes thinking of casting the flange on the cam so this isnt a problem...plus a hassle

[Ex_Rider43]

[

I jjust got my hotcam wednesday guys and Im a little scared about it. Im very low on money now and If this cam failed again I dont know what Ill do. lets pray for it.

can someone post a picture of ''The Flange''???

[Castor-426ex]

give me a sec

[Castor-426ex]

ok its the part where your timing gear bolts to...it has ears..not the decompression junk behind it...you wont use that

[Wired]

$HIT!!!!! my flange slides on by hand now tooo... well looks like im makin a few phone calls today. i gotta race this weekend at the metrodome so i gotte get my ex back together!

[Wired]

WOW very impressed! i talked to tony today about my splines being messed up and he had already sent out a new cam to me before i even sent mine out. now thats customer service!! im glad these guys are A+ quality cause i didnt want to switch to a different cam, im very pleased with the hotcams performance :macho

[Castor-426ex]

call tony tice..hes awesome to work with and he will do whatever it takes to make it right....Trust me I know:D

[Ex_Rider43]

is it caused by the hotcam??? I havent got my bike and im a little scared about that

[TRX250XFIRE]

This is a awsome topic, thank god it has not been ruined by all the punk kids that just get on here to be dumb. I just orderd a Hotcam so when i started reading this i was freaking out, but it got better at the end. EXriders is great!

[Steven]

I got a new flange pressed on my new Hotcam Stage II today. It took over 500lbs to do it so I'm feeling good about things.

[TRX250XFIRE]

As did I, My Hotcam fears are over.

Just for the record.

I have the stage2 from HotCams in posession and will be installing it next week.

Hopefully this will work better than b4, and I will update you all after break in and a few runs.

By specs alond I am thinking it will be much better.

[Wired]

i sent my cam with flange to hotcams and got a new cam with flange already pressed on. im pretty confident that its going to last this time. i also noticed the cam looks more beefy then my last cam. did they redesign the cam or am i seeing things?

[Impala400]

are hotcams going to come with the flanges? i am thinking of some cam i the future and easy of install this seams like my cam :)

[Castor-426ex]

Tony Tice said that they were contemplating casting the flange on the cam...that way...you wont have to worry and they wont have to worry...

[Steven]

Im breaking in my new motor now and the hotcam stage2 is doing will after 4 hours of run time. I re-adjusted the valve lash today and changed the oil.

The valve lash was hardley out of spec after 4 hours-so thats good and everything sounds as it should.

Lenny, you're going to love this cam!!!

I haven't had mine past 1/3 throttle yet and it has stunning bottom end with an 11.5:1 compression piston. I can't wait to see how the midrange and top end is.

Finally got the motor together and so far so good!

Steve

[luvmyex]

It pulls just as hard all the way tru the gears.I have 9 hrs on mine now and so far so good.Im really liking how it runs now,but i would still like just a little more.I guess porting or a carb will be somewhere down the road.

Lenny, you're going to love this cam!!!

Thats exactly the emotion I am looking for :) ;)

Well it should be better cause it has a little less lift than the stage1 (a lot less than the orig specs lol) and also a little more duration so though its not "exactly" what I orig was thinking it should work much better with the motor mods I have.

WIll deff follow up in this thread after it gets installed and broken in.

[Steven]

I got another 1.5 hrs on the engine and all si well with the hot cam.

I made one run through the gears at 3/4 throttle and WOW! This cam really pulls hard in the midrange. I did not rev past 6000 rpm's or so and this cam really makes good thrust.

I made one run through the gears at 3/4 throttle and WOW

SO I guess your happy with the whole rebuild then :)

[Steven]

I really am.

I am SOOOOOO amazed how much of a defference 2 points in compression and a flowed head makes in power.

This engine while only slightly different than my other 440 is much stronger throughout the powerband. And I haven't been past 3/4 throttle yet.

The Hotcam StageII is pretty much the same as the White Brothers track cam right? The power difference must be from the compression and head work then??? Either way this cam makes good power.

Everybody has me freaked on this "circlip" thing. I hope I put mine in right.

The Hotcam StageII is pretty much the same as the White Brothers track cam right? The power difference must be from the compression and head work then???

Would deff agree on that

[Castor-426ex]

well...i had more problems...this is cam number 3 but the problems werent with the flange...have any of you that have use the stage 2 had issues or knowledge of diffuculty getting the cam to set fully in the journals?
mine would not sit completely in the center journal..but i think i fixed it...im sorta growing tired of continuing bad luck..and im very anxious to ride this thing...
it is together but i have not started it or broken it in....
wish me luck

[Castor-426ex]

also on the lash adjustment...my feeler guage doesnt have mm...so what would the clearance set to ?

[shamisc]

Ok guys, you have a problem with loose flanges. What would it hurt to have the flange welded on? Just wondering. Seems like it would be cheap insurance. Just weld a little at the time so it doesn't get too hot. Right? :tired: :p

[YZROOSTINYA]

I have 57.9 hours on my cam and i went to put it in on Saturday and I noticed I can pull the broach off by hand. I called Tony at Hotcam and we will see what he says. I can't beleive it didn't give me any problems. I had a shop press it on intially and it was tight(it didn't wiggle but i really didn't try). the movement is only left to righjt, there is no rocking on the broach on the cam forward to backward.

I am just pissed because I finally got my head back from porting and my rear shock should be here today or tomorrow. It was 70 degrees yesterday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Man i want this thing together SOOOOOOOOOOOO bad :mad:

also on the lash adjustment...my feeler guage doesnt have mm...so what would the clearance set to ?
.15" and .20" like it said on your cam card :D its basically 4mm and 5mm like the stocker.


What would it hurt to have the flange welded on? That would be like using crazy glue on a bandaid, lets just correct the problem and not go nuts fixing the results of it.


Man i want this thing together SOOOOOOOOOOOO bad YZ I know that feeling well, hang in there its better to get it right now and not worry later.

[gojk]

Originally posted by 440EX4me
.15" and .20" like it said on your cam card :D its basically 4mm and 5mm like the stocker.


That is .15mm and .20 mm not inches. And it is about .004" intake and .006” exhaust

[YZROOSTINYA]

tony is not in today. they want me to send the cam back to them. i talked to sean.

they are out of good cams right now. they will press the new flange on for me.

it wont be here until at least next week:mad: :mad:

someone tried to weld the flang on and it snapped the weld. weather he spot welded it or actually ran a bead around the whole broach i do not know.

i feel like just putting it back back with the stock cam for now.

I had the cam sitting there for the last month thinking it was all good. I COULD HAVE SWORN i checked it earlier when i heard of all the probs. why couldnt i have figured hti sout a month ago:(

**** i can put my old cam in since i will be sending them my broach. mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

[UglyMotha™]

Originally posted by 440EX4me
.15" and .20" like it said on your cam card :D its basically 4mm and 5mm like the stocker.

That would be like using crazy glue on a bandaid, lets just correct the problem and not go nuts fixing the results of it.

YZ I know that feeling well, hang in there its better to get it right now and not worry later.


Hey 440ex4me for some reason i think an 1/8" and a 1/4" gap might be just a little too loose for the lifters:D

[Ex'r Marlin]

Originally posted by gojk
That is .15mm and .20 mm not inches. And it is about .004" intake and .006” exhaust According to my math... .15mm equals 0.0059" (.006") and .20mm equals 0.0078" (.008").

Reference: One inch equals 25.4 mm.

Note: I have my valve lash set at .006" and .008" with my Hotcam stage 2. No problems to date, and I feel it is working impressively well! :)

Hey 440ex4me for some reason i think an 1/8" and a 1/4" gap might be just a little too loose for the lifters


That is .15mm and .20 mm not inches. And it is about .004" intake and .006” exhaust

LMFAO thats funny I swapped the inch and mm numbers :D :blah

Must have been from that long talk with Castor last night :eek:

[Castor-426ex]

well....my 426 is ALIVE

:D :D :D

[DBL-D49]

Convert Millimeters to Standard by dividing the millimeter unit by (25.4). EX. (0.1mm/25.4=.003937").

well....my 426 is ALIVE

Well thank you Lord :)

How is it running?

[Castor-426ex]

i think we might need to chat lmao


it runs great actually:D :D :D

[Dave400ex]

Let us know how it works out on the Trails...

[Castor-426ex]

i already rode it on the trails and it hauls *** everywhere...matter of fact i left it in third gear for the entire 2nd break in ride

matter of fact i left it in third gear for the entire 2nd break in ride My hero :rolleyes: :blah :devil

So what you end up setting the valves at?

[Castor-426ex]

i took yours...and marlins advice

[YZROOSTINYA]

i run mine at .005 and .006.

i am sending my cam in today. i got my shock yesterday now all in need is a cam. MAYBE i will be able to get one this week?????

[luvmyex]

The card i had cam out to .006-.008.I was told to run.005-.006 But i set it at .005-.007 and no ticking or problems so far.And it has held that setting tru 6hrs.I will check again at 20hrs.

[YZROOSTINYA]

I am putting my cam back in the way it is. I just got off the phone with Tony at HOTCAM. We spoke for about 15mins or so and I must say he is one cool dude!

There are thinking of casting the broach and cam as one peice so maybe we will see this in the future. Which would be cool and even make it more of a "DROP-in" than it is now.

I am going to RED loctite the broach and throw it back together tonight. It ran fine for 60hrs like that so I do not see a problem popping up now.

there is no forward/backward play so I am good to go.

also, when the motor gets hot the broach and cam will expand into each other which would basically solve your clearance issues would it not? I just wanna ride

[UglyMotha™]

:o well, hopfully we don't see a picture of your piston on here next with the title piston blew up;)


personally i wouldn't use locktite cause heat is it's biggest enemy and i really wouldn't want it running thru my motor just another oppinion:p

[YZROOSTINYA]

it doesnt get hot enough to f with the loctite.

i wont have any probs. it lasted 60 hours off the rev limiter so i think i will be ok

[Castor-426ex]

i dunno but my quad amazed me again today...i never knew just a bore and cam could do this much...it revs like crazy...

you all dont think that having the wb rev box will hurt it?
it starts right up

[YZROOSTINYA]

DO NOT run the rev box with stock valve springs on the stage 2

[Castor-426ex]

why not? then wouldnt i be hitting the rev limiter all the time?

[YZROOSTINYA]

valve float. most of ther power is between 4500 and 8k not 9300 to 10300.

your just wasting revs IMO

[Castor-426ex]

ah crap
now i got to get another stock box

[YZROOSTINYA]

unless you have some serious stuff doen to set it up for HIGH rpm use its not there, the ex is a mostly midrange motor

if it had direct cam to valve, liquad cooling, ti valves then i would say redline it all day. i have bounced the limiter in 1.2.3rd but your really dont need to IMO

[MIKE400EX]

The stock valve springs would be very marginal at keeping the valves from floating at the higher RPM level - much less used springs. Don't want to see your name on that post about broken pistons & rods. Change your springs/retainers or axe the WB box. Just shift a little sooner, you'll go just as fast. (IMO)

[Braff1]

Loc tight make a high temp red and so does Honda. I prefer the Loc tight brand over honda myself. Heat is what makes the regular locktite soften up allowing bolts to work loose.

[Dave400ex]

I don't see how you guys are hitting the rev limiter. I have never hit mine. I agree, just shift sooner, the 400 doesn't make it's power at the high rpm anyways...

I don't see how you guys are hitting the rev limiter. I have never hit mine. I agree, just shift sooner, the 400 doesn't make it's power at the high rpm anyways...

I have hit the stk limiter in every gear but 5th, and so far thats from running out of room or nerve.

I had this discussion with your favorite engine builder and he seemed to think I was nuts and that the valves wont float on this engine.

Oh well confused again ;)

[Dave400ex]

Seriousally I really don't think I have ever hit mine. It must just be you guys with motor work. I guess I will find out soon.
Well Tom has explained just about everything to me and some I just get totally lost. I saw the other thread today and your post. It was locked before I read it :blah

[Wired]

unless your hitting some big jumps or racing you really shouldnt be hitting the rev limiter. it takes quite a bit to hit the limiter under power, but if you hit the gas in the air you should hit it or if your racin you'll probably hit it quite a bit. i'd be worryin bout valve float though, ive personally seen damage it has caused. if your going with a high performance cam or getting a high rev cdi box please do yourself a favor and get different vavle springs. it will cost you less money in the long run :cool:

I saw the other thread today and your post. It was locked before I read it

Nah nah nah nah nah :D Just when it was getting good to :(

Too bad things get out of controll cause like that thread there is some good info between the flames.


i'd be worryin bout valve float though, ive personally seen damage it has caused. if your going with a high performance cam or getting a high rev cdi box please do yourself a favor and get different vavle springs. it will cost you less money in the long run

I agree with you there and I know I have more $$ into gaskets than the springs and retainers.

[Castor-426ex]

ok back to the stock cdi box then I guess:confused: :D

[YZROOSTINYA]

i have hit on around corners during tire spin. or on hill climbs but mostly its when i spin the tires(the 416's do that:devil )

rarely would i hit it if ever on the stock motor

i put red loctite on my cam and it will be back together when i get home

Ok in all fairness to everyone I wanted to take a little time and post a follow up to all the previous problems I had etc.

First and very important is that I had measured the orig stage1 when I had first recieved it and now that it was in the engine for several months running with the Kibble White valve springs and stk OEM Honda rockers etc it has almost no measureable wear (with the equip I have avail). This was interesting since I had heard all the talk about the new springs being a potential problem but thankfully I cant find and problems with it etc.

Now for a little insight into the "not so hot" in my sig. Originally the stage one cam was listed with a higher lift and dur than what ended up being shipped. I dont know where the mix up originated etc but I had checked out more than 1 or 2 dealers for the spec's and they had matched each other but not the end result.

Since the cam that I had received orig. had less dur and a lot less lift it just wasnt able to "breathe" right with the engine mods on my quad and thus- "not so hot" seemed to be a good description, cause there wasnt any big issues or problems to talk about but it still wasnt right.

Well thankfuly Tony Tice of Hot Cams had finally decided after a delay that he would be sending me a stage2 as a replacement for the too small stage1 (this stage1 would actually be a great cam for a stk or smaller bore 400ex with intake and exhaust mods etc) and I was happy to see it before I had actually purchased another brand and spent more $$$ again.

I had some time to install it last week and break it in over the weekend and even get a couple hard runs on it as well and here is what I found.

The flange to spline tolerances or fit were fine and very similar to the orig stage1 and since that held up well I have no reason to think the stage2 would not be fine also. And no I did not measure the force required to press it on sorry.

The install was simple and eventless just as the orig was.

After a few break in rides and cool down cycles etc it was time to open it up a little, and there were deff some obvious differences.

Compared to the stage1 there wasnt a noticable change in the bottom end ( I am not saying there wasnt any diff but it was negligable) but the mid to top hit was an improvement and this grind seems to let the 440 breathe much better. The power did seem to remain rather linear but there was a noticable harder hit towards the top but in all fairness I have to admit that the carb was a little "fat" on the lower circuit so there is room or potential for improvement there.

Overall I have to say there was a generous increase in the "seat of the pants" test and it was deff a lot more fun on the smaller "mx style" track I had tested it on etc.

I will let you all know if there is any additional changes with proper jetting.

"thanx Tony"

[TRX250XFIRE]

Hey, do any of you guys know the hotcam site, i went to hotcam.com but that was not it? Or maby one of u could just answer my question. I just put a Hotcam stage 2 in my motor, i sent the motor to a friend and he orderd the parts and just did it all. and i thought the stage 2 was for mid-top power. But then i look in my Dennis-kirk at ther hotcams and it says teh stage one is for mid-top? So if one of u could real quick tell me whats what, thanks

[YZROOSTINYA]

the stage 2 is the more aggressive cam of the two, there ad is listed incorrectly.

440exme:

I really like what the cam has done to my motor. Know that I have the XR gasket and porting it has really made a over all improvement to the whole package. The 440 might give you less of a "HIT" because of the increased bore size compared to the 416 and added weight(although not much?). You are probally getting a little more bottom out of yours which helps carry you through a little better.

I installed a WB HD clutch the other day and it made my quad a little quicker. My quad pulls nice from down low and has a hit about halfway through the rev range and will lift the suspension/wheels in 1,2,3. It pulls alot harder(keeps gaining) mid through top compared to stock.

If you hopped on a 416(in comparison to your similar modded 440) I wonder if you would notice more of hit that I am talking about?

I guess we'll have to see;)

I would notice the clutch slipping when dropping the clutch shifting through the gears, now the WB clutch holds it and keeps it light up front. The suspension squats now too which makes it really nice on the trails and hill climbs

[TRX250XFIRE]

Thanks YZ, thats just what i wanted to hear. My motor is all finshed now, today will be the first day i get to ride it. Before it had just a 408 bore i think with a wiseco. Now it has a 426 bore with a wiseco 11:1, with a new port job and the hot cam with a new powerbomb header, so hopefuly i will notice a differnce.

[YZROOSTINYA]

www.hotcamsinc.com

.006 and .007 is what I am running, seems to be good.

If you hopped on a 416(in comparison to your similar modded 440) I wonder if you would notice more of hit that I am talking about?

I think you would be suprised :) I am demanding on the results and most people would be thinking I am nuts that I am not 100% satisfied at this point, but I know the engine can produce better power (no I am not blaming the cam, and I think its a flow restriction in the carb) and I want that power its missing.

I ride with another member with the 416 stage2 set up (also elka's all around with stk arms) and after taking a few laps at a local small track he looked like this :D

Had the very same thing happen to a kid on a z400, but I think I may stop making people try it cause I am ruining there ability to enjoy their machine :devil


.006 and .007 is what I am running, seems to be good. Am I the only one who hears the ticking??????????

[86atc250r]

The stock valve springs would be very marginal at keeping the valves from floating at the higher RPM level - much less used springs. Don't want to see your name on that post about broken pistons & rods. Change your springs/retainers or axe the WB box. Just shift a little sooner, you'll go just as fast. (IMO)

While I somewhat agree, I have to disagree as well..

I've got an engine with tons of hours on it - enough so that I've worn out one OEM timing chain and one HD timing chain. Still on stock valve springs.

I'm running a different rev-limiter than most are (not the XR250 based unit everyone else sells). I've been told that it limits at 12,000 or so, although I've not measured it myself. It is definitlely quite a bit higher than stock.

I've bounced off that limit several times and never experienced valve float on the stock springs (hot cams stage 1 on a 416 with head work and FCR).

While I will agree in most cases that pulling past the stock rev-limit is a waste, there are several cases when it is very handy to pull up into the 10 thousands or maybe even low 11's.

When it extends your range in a particular gear, it can be very useful. I run some flat track - at one of the tracks, the rev-limiter allows me to run 2nd gear all the way around the track (about 40mph with current gearing) - If I was forced into 3rd or the rev-limiter it would slow me down considerably. The rev limit for obvious reasons and in 3rd, because the downshift into 2nd upsets the chassis in the corner.

While peak power of my engine is well below the limit, it still develops some usable power in the 10K range.

It can also help on the holeshot when coming into that first turn to have additional range in a particular gear in a MX or even an XC race.

RPM range is one reason Cannondale's do well at the flat track.

I will agree that a person is seriously risking breaking a stock rod with a raised rev-limit, especially when the piston's weight exceeds that of stock (Wiseco 89mm piston is probably one of the worst offenders). In many cases the rev-limit will not help you & is not worth taking the "safety net" of the stock rev-limit away.

[bartlettracing]

just thought I would add to this : I got the first new stage 2 cam it has a flange built right in . no more worry's ....

[gojk]

So, does that up the price?

[bartlettracing]

no the price remains the same !!!!!

[Castor-426ex]

post a pic

[gojk]

Originally posted by bartlettracing
no the price remains the same !!!!!

Awesome.So it looks like HOtcam fixed there issue. Nice job Hotcam and keep up the good work. I love my CAM.

Nice job Hotcam and keep up the good work. :D

[bartlettracing]

sorry I cant post a pic I had it installed in a customers bike ,before I read this thread . I can Tell you it is a much better looking system . flange does look like it might weigh a little more than the stock flange. Nice job tony !