450R Trans and starter problems...E Start only?

[TWILES]

I'm going to buy a new 450 sport quad in the spring. I like Yamaha's and would prefer a Yamaha but I'm not real happy with another Banshee with a 4-stroke motor and nice rear link(basically what they are from what I've gather'd). I had an 04 450R that I passed along to my wife when I found out what it cost to have a fast one and got a WR450F. I want to start racing MX again this year and I like the new Honda's. I rode a wore out 06 and there was a daylight and dark difference between it and the 04 we have. I really liked it. Even with a ragged stock motor it had more usable power then the 04 we have thats like new. It handled better too with the stock tires and ours has MX holeshots on it. I've been reading and hearing about bottom-end problems. Best I can tell its mainly if not completely with the electric start models. I won't be buying that one. I'll get the kick model. Are any of you guys who have the kick start models having any problems?

[450R22]

Good luck finding a 06 kickstart - i could not find one, and had to buy the E-start. I run mx with mine, and yes the electric start can give you headaches. they do not like to start when they get "hot"(if tuned properly about the best you can hope for is about 5 seconds) cold is fine. "Cardinal Rule" Do not ever touch the throttle when pushing the start button. Remember that and you should be fine.

[dober250R]

I have a dun retarded 07 estart then. Cause mine won't start cold...... Only hot

[Dave400ex]

I never had any tranny problems with my 06ER, but did have problems with the starter. It was a pain. I traded my 06ER in about a month ago and got an 07 kicker. So far I am liking the kicker much better, but I don't have much time on it. I already know it starts much faster for the dead engine starts though...

You will have a hard time finding an 07 kicker. I suggest you start looking asap. They are hard to come by.

[TWILES]

I don't think an 07 kicker will be too hard to get here. Everyone wants the electric. I heard the local Honda shop had a few 06's left over. Not sure which ones. Thanks for the reply's.

[coryatver]

Your the first person I have ever heard refer to the yfz as like a banshee:eek2:

[lumi]

i have heard of noisy and hard engagin trannies but that being for the streght of the motor... and the only problems i have heard is high power 50+ engine causing excess pressure maybe blowing seals and or wearing alot of parts down... last i have heard is 75 hp nos 450r blwoing his 3rd gear but not completely with a stock tranny. imo there very solid trannies.....
and no the same tranny is in the kick start...


i will repeat this again until mine breaks or im proven wrong but the e-start problems are more than 90% of user error...

by this i mean people giving it has while cranking the starter making and causing a potential for kickback and if this happens it digs into the sprags on the starter clutch so after a while it doesnt engage... also peopleunderiflling there tranny's to really heat them up and people hlding the starter button for more than 5 second greating excessive heat in the starter clutch and starter.. usually once the engine starts it cools it but if people flood it when trying to give gas which the engine does already on its own.. cuz its smart like that... people giving gas floods it even more.



jmho i have a bit of experince and research on this topic... so far this is what i know but i can be proven wrong but as of now my is holding great looks in great condition aswell...

good luck.... e-start is awesome for the trails and easy as hell to start... ive started banshee long enough...

jhmo

:) lata guys



-lumi

[Dragnut06]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TWILES
I'm going to buy a new 450 sport quad in the spring. I like Yamaha's and would prefer a Yamaha but I'm not real happy with another Banshee with a 4-stroke motor and nice rear link(basically what they are from what I've gather'd). had an 04 450R that I passed along to my wife when I found out what it cost to have a fast one and got a WR450F. I want to start racing MX again this year and I like the new Honda's. I rode a wore out 06 and there was a daylight and dark difference between it and the 04 we have. I really liked it. Even with a ragged stock motor it had more usable power then the 04 we have thats like new. It handled better too with the stock tires and ours has MX holeshots on it. I've been reading and hearing about bottom-end problems. Best I can tell its mainly if not completely with the electric start models. I won't be buying that one. I'll get the kick model. Are any of you guys who have the kick start models having any problems?



What do u mean? I have a `04 450R and i like it, i have rode any other quad to really compare and i don't race either, I've been thinkin about and would really like to get in to MX and i see alot of ppl here that race and was wondering if you guys could tell me what all it take to race how much it would cost (in general) and any tips... and for the kick model having problems i dont have any except when its cold then it take awhile for it to start

[86Rryder]

I have an 07er. I have had no problems period! Takes maybe 1 to 2 seconds longer to start when it is hot. Maybe I got a good one? Or maybe it is the 06 models problem?

[TWILES]

Originally posted by Dragnut06
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TWILES
I'm going to buy a new 450 sport quad in the spring. I like Yamaha's and would prefer a Yamaha but I'm not real happy with another Banshee with a 4-stroke motor and nice rear link(basically what they are from what I've gather'd). had an 04 450R that I passed along to my wife when I found out what it cost to have a fast one and got a WR450F. I want to start racing MX again this year and I like the new Honda's. I rode a wore out 06 and there was a daylight and dark difference between it and the 04 we have. I really liked it. Even with a ragged stock motor it had more usable power then the 04 we have thats like new. It handled better too with the stock tires and ours has MX holeshots on it. I've been reading and hearing about bottom-end problems. Best I can tell its mainly if not completely with the electric start models. I won't be buying that one. I'll get the kick model. Are any of you guys who have the kick start models having any problems?



What do u mean? I have a `04 450R and i like it, i have rode any other quad to really compare and i don't race either, I've been thinkin about and would really like to get in to MX and i see alot of ppl here that race and was wondering if you guys could tell me what all it take to race how much it would cost (in general) and any tips... and for the kick model having problems i dont have any except when its cold then it take awhile for it to start

I DID used to race and had 2-strokes. All had built motors except for the Banshee which had stock cylinders. Reason being, a cripled guy who used to race Banshee's in the 80's and early 90's told me if I couldn't win with the stock motor I didn't have any business on one. He was right.
From what I saw of the 04's, you basically need everything Dasa offers except the porting and valves to get it going like a nice 2-stroke. I rode a friends done that way with ProTrax front and rear end, Baldwin link and PEP ZPS shocks. It was what I was looking for but it was in the $17,000 range and I'm not spending another $10 - $11,000 on the bike. His had $2500 + in the motor + the FCR carb which was another $800. The 06 + saves you on the carb and ignition system right off the bat.

To lumi, I know that the transmissions are the same. The starter gears free-wheel just like the kick-starter gears do. From what I was seeing the problem was mainly with the ER's. I was getting the impression that there was a problem in that area causing something to get stressed too much. I've never heard of a Honda sport bike having bottom-end problems untill the ER came out. The ones sold here were back at the dealship within the first week down.

[lumi]

here is a picture of the sprags on the starter clutch and the reuslt of some heat and kickback...


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a85/muso2/118_1832.jpg

the starter system imo will never have an effect on the transmission if that is what u are meaning by " bootom-end"(tranny) the trannys on the 06 450er or R for that matter are very solid.. and have solid cluthes aswell...

and if the starter clutch would ever drag it would just get destroyed and aten away little by little.... so it owuldnt drag for long...

god luck with ur choice... i love my 06 er.. never left me staranded for 9 months. :)

-lumi

[lumi]

COURTESY OF CHAD THE MAN...

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a85/muso2/dsc00856.jpg

THE KICKER also has the driven gear for the cluctch basket and for the counter balancer.. but doesnt have the starter drive gear and clutch as labeled... now becuase its on the crank of course and the clutch is a one way... if the engine backfires the clutch doesnt go the other way and just gets ripped up like the previous picture.....

this can happen for many reasons but giving gas during cranking the main culprit... there even putting a warning label on the 07 quads now to not give throttle during cranking.. and the maintenance overview honda sent out to all 06 450 owners says DO NOT GIVE ANY THROTTLE DURING CRANKING.. THIS CAN RESULT IN SERIOUS DAMAGE TO STARTERING ASSMEBLY.


HOPE THIS HELPED


-LUMI

[TWILES]

Thanks...thats what I was wanting. The pictures help too.

[sandmanblue]

For what it's worth - I haven't heard of any bottom end issues with the 06/07 motors. As lumi said - the starter clutch, when abused, has been a problem. I also am aware of one major trans issue (same NOS setup as lumi know about) and several complaints of stiff shifting trannies.

The 04/05's are the ones with crank bearing problems but they can be fixed and upgraded to a newer bearing.

The 04/05's don't need much more than the 06/07 to make race worthy power. The main difference is the head and compression. A bump to a 14:1 piston for $250 and port work for $400, plus exhaust and a HC2 will make that motor very capable on the track. The 06/07 is just in a higher state of tune right out of the box.

The chassis are almost identical, but the 06/07 has a 1/2" longer swingarm.

The only thing beyond that I can think of is using a more agressive cam, valve springs, bumping the valve size up and boring the carb. But, unless you're a pro, those are not needed. Very few people can use that kind of power on a track...

[N300exJ]

Find a decent used 05. If i thought the 06 or 07's were better i would have sold or traded in my 05 450R. Facts are there not that great.

[JR3]

Originally posted by N300exJ
Find a decent used 05. If i thought the 06 or 07's were better i would have sold or traded in my 05 450R. Facts are there not that great.

Yup 1 great thing i loved about my 04 when i had it was no electrical at all to deal with very simple to work on. Now i have a yfz it sucks because i want to get a kicker which i have now but i need to eliminate the battery eliminate a lot off the harness get a starter block off a lot of **** just to make it a staright up kicker. Be easier if it just came with it.

lumi has it nailed on the head...great bike, have had no problems since february

[tooanxiousii]

I have a 06 with 50+++Hp and have not had a problem yet love it!!!

[400exrider0004]

I added a kickstart to mine after having tons of problems with the e-start. Before I added the kickstart I checked everthing over. I mean everything. I then added the kickstart and Ill give you guys a report to see if it helps at all. I hope it does:)